Welsh rugby regions raise player salary cap by £1m

First topic message reminder :

The four Welsh rugby regions have raised the amount they can spend on players' wages by £1m to £4.5m.

In December 2011 the regions - Cardiff Blues, Dragons, Ospreys and Scarlets - imposed a salary cap of £3.5m a year when all four were posting losses.

The rise reflects improved finances, with extra money from Europe and a new deal with the Welsh Rugby Union.

Pro Rugby Wales declined to comment, but it is understood the decision was mutually agreed after a review.

It is hoped the extra cash will help the regions retain star players and potentially bring more "Welsh exiles" home.

Leigh Halfpenny, Jonathan Davies, George North and Luke Charteris are thought to be considering returning to Wales next season.

The Ospreys are hoping Dan Biggar and Alun Wyn Jones will agree to extend their current National Dual Contracts.

However, the regions - represented by Pro Rugby Wales - are expected to make building squad depth a priority, and not necessarily spend big figures on marquee signings.

The new ceiling - which is self-imposed - is still some way below that of England's Aviva Premiership.

Premiership Rugby Limited - the umbrella body that governs England's Premiership clubs - announced in October they would be raising their cap next season from £5.1m to £6.5m, and to £7m the season after that.

These figures exclude the salaries of two so-called "marquee signings" that remain outside the cap.

LordDowlais wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:Go on then explain to me why the pro teams in Wales shouldn't be looking for overseas squad fillers.

Because looking oversees for "squad fillers" should not be the option, squad fillers should come from the academy or the welsh prem. If they want to sign a marquee player, someone who will make a difference and actually contribute to the region then fine, but not bang average foreigners who just fill a position when players are away with team Wales, I would rather see a Welsh player there from the academy or the Welsh prem.

Marquee players don't always work.

Deacon Manu was a 'squad filler' type signing, and Kees Meeuws was a big name marquee type signing. However Kees Meeuws will go down as one of our worst ever signing, where as Manu left as a true Scarlet. Same could be said for the likes of Tau Fillise at the Blues, and SNK. And many others over the years for all the sides.

Squad filler type signings are also some of the best players at the regions atm. Hadleigh Parkes at the Scarlets is a real find, as were Earle, Snyman, and even King (lets face it he was unknown when he arrived first time around). The same can be said for Adron and Hassler at the Ospreys, and Landman (maybe Petorious and Meyer in time) at the Dragons.

What do you think of this news Scarlet:-

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugb ... l-10424555

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:Go on then explain to me why the pro teams in Wales shouldn't be looking for overseas squad fillers.

Because looking oversees for "squad fillers" should not be the option, squad fillers should come from the academy or the welsh prem. If they want to sign a marquee player, someone who will make a difference and actually contribute to the region then fine, but not bang average foreigners who just fill a position when players are away with team Wales, I would rather see a Welsh player there from the academy or the Welsh prem.

Marquee players don't always work.

Deacon Manu was a 'squad filler' type signing, and Kees Meeuws was a big name marquee type signing.  However Kees Meeuws will go down as one of our worst ever signing, where as Manu left as a true Scarlet.  Same could be said for the likes of Tau Fillise at the Blues, and SNK.  And many others over the years for all the sides.

Squad filler type signings are also some of the best players at the regions atm.  Hadleigh Parkes at the Scarlets is a real find, as were Earle, Snyman, and even King (lets face it he was unknown when he arrived first time around).  The same can be said for Adron and Hassler at the Ospreys, and Landman (maybe Petorious and Meyer in time) at the Dragons.

This in spades. This xenophobic line that all our players have to be Welsh is idiocy. Not only is the player pool nowhere near deep enough, it also artificially inflates the cost of Welsh qualified players, to pro sides that are currently able to pay less than any of their rivals. It's lunacy.

Stone Motif wrote:This xenophobic line that all our players have to be Welsh is idiocy.

Firstly I am not xenophobic so can we please cut that out.

Secondly, yes some of the NWQ squad fillers turned out to be decent, SNK though, are you serious ? But what if we took the same punt on a player from the Welsh prem who is WQ ? You never know we could end up with a decent WQ player who will leave as a true regional player.

LordDowlais wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:Go on then explain to me why the pro teams in Wales shouldn't be looking for overseas squad fillers.

Because looking oversees for "squad fillers" should not be the option, squad fillers should come from the academy or the welsh prem. If they want to sign a marquee player, someone who will make a difference and actually contribute to the region then fine, but not bang average foreigners who just fill a position when players are away with team Wales, I would rather see a Welsh player there from the academy or the Welsh prem.

Yes I am serious.  SNK was brought in as a 'big name' (literally and figuratively) signing, the sort of marquee signing that you are proposing, as opposed to a squad filler type signing that you are against.  He was a total flop, where as someone like Tau Fillise was brought in as a squad filler type signing and far more useful.

At the moment I would say the NWQs at the regions are on the whole are better than any welsh prem equivalent.

Blues NWQs
Dolan (capped USA)
Dicomidis (capped Cyprus? if not WQ now?)
Fillise (capped Tonga)
Hoetta (capped New Zealand)
Lee-Lo (capped Samoa)
Scully (capped USA)
Vosawai (capped Italy)

Dragons NWQs
Crosswell (time serving, 2018)
Harris (time serving, 2017)
Jackson (time serving, 2018)
Landman (time serving, 2017)
Meyer (time serving, 2017)
Petorious (time serving, 2018)
Stankovich (time serving, 2017)

Ospreys NWQs
Adron  (capped Canada)
Arhip (capped Moldova)
Bernardo (time serving, 2018?)
Fia (time serving, 2018)
Hassler (capped Canada)
Leonard (capped New Zealand)
Matervesi (capped Fiji)

Scarlets NWQs
Barclay (capped Scotland)
Paulino (capped Samoa)
King (capped New Zealand)
Parkes (time serving, 2017)
Tagicakiabu (capped Fiji)
Cowley (academy time serving, 2018)
DTH (capped Canada)

ScarletSpiderman wrote:SNK was brought in as a 'big name' (literally and figuratively) signing, the sort of marquee signing that you are proposing, as opposed to a squad filler type signing that you are against

Sorry, I thought you were saying he was a successful marque signing.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Blues NWQs
Dolan (capped USA)
Dicomidis (capped Cyprus? if not WQ now?)
Fillise (capped Tonga)
Hoetta (capped New Zealand)
Lee-Lo (capped Samoa)
Scully (capped USA)
Vosawai (capped Italy)

Dragons NWQs
Crosswell (time serving, 2018)
Harris (time serving, 2017)
Jackson (time serving, 2018)
Landman (time serving, 2017)
Meyer (time serving, 2017)
Petorious (time serving, 2018)
Stankovich (time serving, 2017)

Ospreys NWQs
Adron (capped Canada)
Arhip (capped Moldova)
Bernardo (time serving, 2018?)
Fia (time serving, 2018)
Hassler (capped Canada)
Leonard (capped New Zealand)
Matervesi (capped Fiji)

Scarlets NWQs
Barclay (capped Scotland)
Paulino (capped Samoa)
King (capped New Zealand)
Parkes (time serving, 2017)
Tagicakiabu (capped Fiji)
Cowley (academy time serving, 2018)
DTH (capped Canada)

Feck me, I did not realise it was that many. What has happened to the agreement ?

Isn't the agreement 8 (6 plus 2 time servers) and being reduced in time?

Anyway, from that list the following I think we could have found players just as good in the prem or in the academies:-

Dolan
Scully
Crosswell
Harris
Jackson
Bernardo
Leonard
Fia
Paulino
Cowley

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Isn't the agreement 8 (6 plus 2 time servers) and being reduced in time?

I thought it was 5 + 1.

LordDowlais wrote:Anyway, from that list the following I think we could have found players just as good in the prem or in the academies:-

Dolan (Probably someone available, but not sure to be honest)
Scully (He was thought of very highly at the Tigers, definitely better than Fish)
Crosswell (The Dragons have lost their talented youngsters Condy and Ieaun Jones, so need No.8 cover for Taulupe)
Harris (Dragons have struggled to produce props for years, so Harris is definitely a step up IMO)
Jackson (The Dragons have lost their talented youngsters Condy and Ieaun Jones, so need No.8 cover for Taulupe)
Bernardo (With Alyn Wyn Jones, and King off with internationals, and Rory Thornton looking likely to be joining them, the Ospreys need some experience at lock)
Leonard (He is a former All Blacks scrum half, and was brilliant at Zebre. With Webb knackered he will be essential to the Ospreys this season)
Fia (Seeing as he is injured and I haven't seen him play, I can not judge)
Paulino (Cover for 4,5,6,8 and a real lump. Could be very useful. Only on a trial at the moment, but could turn out as a real boost as a impact sub)
Cowley (Given he is only 18, and taking his lineage into account (shown in the try he set up for Llandovery at the weekend) he could be a future star for wales at outside centre.)

Commented in blue.

SecretFly wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

To be fair, PRW need to grow bigger balls on this and ask why the hell it is happening. And I do appreciate wales have more problems than other nation in this area.

WRU response:  "To pay for the players you guys want to keep?"

To help fund SH rugby, shewerly?

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Isn't the agreement 8 (6 plus 2 time servers) and being reduced in time?

ie the same as it was under the ye olde PA.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Isn't the agreement 8 (6 plus 2 time servers) and being reduced in time?

ie the same as it was under the ye olde PA.

http://prorugbywales.com/rsa/

•The new RSA also limits the number of foreign players in regional squads to a maximum of six while each region will be allowed two time-serving players who will be available for Welsh selection after three years residency. The key principle for non-Welsh qualified players is to provide a “core” of experienced squad players that can anchor performance, particularly during international periods and provide the platform to develop our younger players at a senior regional level. Experience over the period of the previous agreement has illustrated that 6 + 2 is the very minimum necessary to achieve these two aims.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Isn't the agreement 8 (6 plus 2 time servers) and being reduced in time?

ie the same as it was under the ye olde PA.

http://prorugbywales.com/rsa/

•The new RSA also limits the number of foreign players in regional squads to a maximum of six while each region will be allowed two time-serving players who will be available for Welsh selection after three years residency. The key principle for non-Welsh qualified players is to provide a “core” of experienced squad players that can anchor performance, particularly during international periods and provide the platform to develop our younger players at a senior regional level. Experience over the period of the previous agreement has illustrated that 6 + 2 is the very minimum necessary to achieve these two aims.

Aye that's the boyo. Sure I posted a similar link not very long ago, but there we are.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Anyway, from that list the following I think we could have found players just as good in the prem or in the academies:-

Dolan  (Probably someone available, but not sure to be honest)
Scully (He was thought of very highly at the Tigers, definitely better than Fish)
Crosswell (The Dragons have lost their talented youngsters Condy and Ieaun Jones, so need No.8 cover for Taulupe)
Harris (Dragons have struggled to produce props for years, so Harris is definitely a step up IMO)
Jackson (The Dragons have lost their talented youngsters Condy and Ieaun Jones, so need No.8 cover for Taulupe)
Bernardo (With Alyn Wyn Jones, and King off with internationals, and Rory Thornton looking likely to be joining them, the Ospreys need some experience at lock)
Leonard (He is a former All Blacks scrum half, and was brilliant at Zebre.  With Webb knackered he will be essential to the Ospreys this season)
Fia (Seeing as he is injured and I haven't seen him play, I can not judge)
Paulino (Cover for 4,5,6,8 and a real lump.  Could be very useful.  Only on a trial at the moment, but could turn out as a real boost as a impact sub)
Cowley (Given he is only 18, and taking his lineage into account (shown in the try he set up for Llandovery at the weekend) he could be a future star for wales at outside centre.)

Commented in blue.

So what we are saying is Dragons need two NWQ 8's to cover Faletua, even though they left players like Morgan Allen go in the past ?

Brendon Leonard was not needed at Ospreys, they have Webb, Roberts, Habberfield and Grabham, although Grabham mostly plays on the wing these days, but that still leaves them with 3 Welsh scrum halves.

Scully is not better than Fish, why is Fish starting and Scully aint ?

Ospreys do not need any cover at lock, they have Rhodri Hughes, Adam Beard, Lloyd Ashley, Rory Thornton, AWJ. At 24yrs of age, I do not know what experience Bernardo will bring to that position.

Cowley being 18 and a future star, why cant we have Welsh 18 year olds who can be future stars ?

2ndtimeround wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

To be fair, PRW need to grow bigger balls on this and ask why the hell it is happening. And I do appreciate wales have more problems than other nation in this area.

WRU response:  "To pay for the players you guys want to keep?"

Exactly, gate receipts alone for 1 extra fixture against a top SH side can exceed £4,000,000.

The pro 4 receive about £100k each I believe/understand, for the extra AI. Australia etc receive £750k+ approx. Wonder where the rest of it goes, or rather 'went' now that Dodger's flown?

Lord, I guess it all depends on what you want to see the regions doing. If you want to see them as a development tool, that are willing to lose games during international windows (or when players are injured) by fielding players who are not ready yet in important games. Then they do not need any of those overseas players you have mentioned.

However, if you want to see them competing with the other Pro12 sides, all season around, and having he depth in their squad to their squad to rotate players to keep them fit and cover internationals etc, then these overseas lads are crucial.

Also with regard Leonard-: Webb was going to be missing a fair bit being on a NDC and playing international rugby (now injured which puts even more demand on the depth in the squad). Grabham is pretty much a wing convert now, Roberts has been a bit of a nomad really, never staying at a side for longer than one contract. So without Leonard they would be left with Haberfeild starting and Roberts as bench cover. Should either of them take a knock, or heaven forbid a serious injury, they would be left in a position where they would be down to one fit scrum half whilst playing in the top tier of Europe.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Lord, I guess it all depends on what you want to see the regions doing.  If you want to see them as a development tool, that are willing to lose games during international windows (or when players are injured) by fielding players who are not ready yet in important games.  Then they do not need any of those overseas players you have mentioned.

However, if you want to see them competing with the other Pro12 sides, all season around, and having he depth in their squad to their squad to rotate players to keep them fit and cover internationals etc, then these overseas lads are crucial.

Also with regard Leonard-: Webb was going to be missing a fair bit being on a NDC and playing international rugby (now injured which puts even more demand on the depth in the squad).  Grabham is pretty much a wing convert now, Roberts has been a bit of a nomad really, never staying at a side for longer than one contract.  So without Leonard they would be left with Haberfeild starting and Roberts as bench cover.  Should either of them take a knock, or heaven forbid a serious injury, they would be left in a position where they would be down to one fit scrum half whilst playing in the top tier of Europe.

I get all that, but please tell me, what credentials did Bernardo have before he joined Ospreys, he has been there for about two or three seasons now, he is 24 yrs old and he is South African, what did he achieve before Ospreys for them to think, hang on, he is good, lets sign him. You cannot tell me that there were no Welsh players at his age that could have been signed up. I think the only reason he was signed is because he is a second row and he is from South Africa so he must be good bollox.

I guess his 10 super rugby appearances were something he had over the others within the region

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/27186146

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I guess his 10 super rugby appearances were something he had over the others within the region

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/27186146

So thats it, ten games. Oh well then. If thats the barometer the regions set themselves at for signing players then we might as well all give up.

LordDowlais wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I guess his 10 super rugby appearances were something he had over the others within the region

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/27186146

So thats it, ten games. Oh well then. If thats the barometer the regions set themselves at for signing players then we might as well all give up.

Being realistic, and considering the overall package the regions have to offer (facilities, coaching staff, standard of live in the area, money available, competitions involved in, general positioning in league/Europe etc), when making overseas signings the best we can hope to get hold of are players who are on the Super XV books, but either have a star player ahead of them in the pecking order, or who have yet to stamp their mark. Any player better than that will be snapped up by either a higher playing side, or a side that are consistently ranked higher in the league/Europe. When the overall package the regions can offer improves so will the standard of overseas player we can sign.

But truth be told do you think Ashley, Thornton or Hughes would have been up to the standards required to pick up any super XV appearances at the time the Ospreys were signing Bernado?

If there were the Welsh born talent available the premiership sides would of been holding their own in the B&I cup instead of been knocked out early each year by English Championship teams and Provincial A teams.
The reason for bringing these squad players in is purely because the Regional coaching teams believe what they have are not good enough to step up a level and succeed, not everyone selected will turn out to meet the required level but as we can not afford proven big money signings then the only other option is gambling on players that have shown some promise.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:But truth be told do you think Ashley, Thornton or Hughes would have been up to the standards required to pick up any super XV appearances at the time the Ospreys were signing Bernado?

Yes I would have liked to think Rory Thornton would have. Anyway, the S15 is supposed to be the equivalent to the Pro12, so I would like to think that the boys making the step up to the Pro12 will also make the step up to S15.

I just think Ospreys were alerted to the fact a S15 second rower was coming to the end of their contract, found out he was South African, used the stereo type and took a punt on him.

2ndtimeround wrote:the only other option is gambling on players that have shown some promise.

How often have we seen players representing Wales at U21 but then fade into obscurity and never get picked by the regions ?

LordDowlais wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:But truth be told do you think Ashley, Thornton or Hughes would have been up to the standards required to pick up any super XV appearances at the time the Ospreys were signing Bernado?

Yes I would have liked to think Rory Thornton would have. Anyway, the S15 is supposed to be the equivalent to the Pro12, so I would like to think that the boys making the step up to the Pro12 will also make the step up to S15.

I just think Ospreys were alerted to the fact a S15 second rower was coming to the end of their contract, found out he was South African, used the stereo type and took a punt on him.

Super XV is more like the RCC IMO. The ITM and Currie Cup are more like the Pro12 to me.

Also Thornton would have been 19 at the time, wasn't even breaking into the Ospreys squad.

Like Jordan Williams you mean, amazing talent at U21 but not been able to cut it at regional level.
Unfortunately we seem to be finding depth in some positions this way that we then struggle to find game time for due to existing players, take Kirby Myhill for example who came through the Academy system and had a great u21 career but now finds Ken Owens and Emyr Phillips in front of him plus 2 younger players pushing him for game time in Ryan Elias and Torin Myhill, however in other positions we keep signing WQ players that have failed elsewhere and are then sitting on our sick note list indefinitely.
Been top quality at U21 is no guarantee of been good enough in the full game.

Lord, we signed Bernardo in 2014, so less than your 2 or 3 years, Grabham IIRC has never been a first team scrum half for us, the decision was taken for him to try the wing position, because him and Habberfield came through at the same time and Habbers has always been preferred with him whether at junior, academy, Bridgend or Ospreys, so to class him as a scrum half is nonsensical, he has distributed at the back of rucks and mauls when the 9 has been trapped, much like Shane did on occasions, do you think we should not have signed some of the scrum halves in the past when Shane was on the books? As for Martin Roberts I said it at the time and still subscribe to it he is nowhere near Guinness level and NEVER has been, he is a waste of our money, the same can be said of Kristian Phillips. Just to add these 2 were in our Premiership select 15 in the game against the Blues select last week, that is about their level.
To class Super 15 on the same level as the Guinness is also ridiculous, apart from Toulon now and possibly Leinster in the recent past the Super 15 is way better than  the Heineken or RCC.
Going back to Bernardo, the vast majority on our forum want Ashley nowhere near our squad, when he plays for us he's called Mr Anonymous, I admit he was very good last weekend, the problem is he is selected as our CAPTAIN when AWJ is not there, and that nickname is NOT what you want for your captain.
Leonard surprisingly for an ex All Black has had a couple of poor games for us, then again he was MOTM in an earlier game, consistency is what you expect from that countries players.
As for your argument about poor players being signed and we should be selecting from the acadamies, the vast majority of our overseas signings have been good signings, with some of the worse being Welsh qualified, 2 of the worse being named above.

Chunky you can be sure whatever happens Cardiff The Blues, call them what you wish will be one of them in one guise or another

You clearly haven't watched Brok Harris play too often Dowlais, if you think there's a prop in the academy better. I'm not sure there's any backrower better than Crosswell either.

wayne wrote:As for your argument about poor players being signed and we should be selecting from the acadamies, the vast majority of our overseas signings have been good signings, with some of the worse being Welsh qualified, 2 of the worse being named above.

I would say Steenkamp was a much worst signing and a waste of money than any of those two.

LordDowlais wrote:I think the only reason he (Bernardo) was signed is because he is a second row and he is from South Africa so he must be good.

If your mind's made up on these things, is there any point even debating with you?

LordDowlais wrote:

wayne wrote:As for your argument about poor players being signed and we should be selecting from the acadamies, the vast majority of our overseas signings have been good signings, with some of the worse being Welsh qualified, 2 of the worse being named above.

I would say Steenkamp was a much worst signing and a waste of money than any of those two.

Lord, hindsight is a wonderful thing, do me and yourself a favour go and have a look at the players Steenkamp and Bernardo deputised for in the Super 15, I would say that Steenkamp cost us practically nothing as he was injured in the first 3 days of training and most of his wages would have been covered by insurance.
Going back to useless players we have re-signed you can put Cai Griffiths in that list. The thing that gets me is the fact those 3 started their Professional careers with us, we let them go and then had them back. Total waste of scant resources IMO.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I think the only reason he (Bernardo) was signed is because he is a second row and he is from South Africa so he must be good.

If your mind's made up on these things, is there any point even debating with you?

My mind is not made up though Luckless. I am all for decent players coming over, players who can help develop the youngsters and add to the regions, it's the masses of crap one's that have come and gone that gets me. For the record, I think Cardiff Blues have been the worst of all the regions for this.

Masses? I think your definition of the word must be different from mine.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Masses? I think your definition of the word must be different from mine.

First couple that come to mind are:-

The Tuilgai at Dragons, what was his nickname ? Hands like feet I hered them calling him at RP,Campese Ma'fu, SNK, Patterson, Pretoroius, Vosawai, the Italian/New Zealand outside half Dragons had not so long ago, all the Americans that we have signed over the years, the center who the Dragons signed from Parma, Mike Hercus, we have a history of signing players not up to the task in Wales.

Just remembered a few more, Tito Tibaldi, George Stowers.

Lord, if anything that list just goes to show how the regions (bar the galacticos Ospreys days) have improved their new signings. Looks positive to me

That's not masses. I make that 11, plus these unnamed Americans. How many of them were there?

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Lord, if anything that list just goes to show how the regions (bar the galacticos Ospreys days) have improved their new signings.  Looks positive to me

Yes I agree, but my original point I was debating with stone motif was, that the impetus should be keeping our best players here, the ones we are producing now, like James Davies and Rory Thornton, Rhys Patchell, these players are the future. Keep these types and use our academies as well. Yes, lets get the Xavier Rush's and the Regan King's as well, but lets not fall into our old habits and just sign players on a wing and a prayer. I am not a believer of just because he is Argentinian and he plays in the front row so he must be good, or he is South African and he is a second rower so he must be quality. Lets use what we have, and bolster it with quality NWQ players. But if we cannot get quality NWQ players, lets use our academies and the prem players.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:That's not masses. I make that 11, plus these unnamed Americans. How many of them were there?

They were just off the top of my head. I can't remember all of them, but we have had a few howlers playing for the regions over the years.

So bad you've wiped their names from your memory.

Alridge, the Japanese/kiwi outside half, there's another. They are comming back to me one by one.

I do think the regions are improving on their squads though. But that is mostly down to the academy players who are taking their chances with both hands. Players like Hallam Amos, Jack Dixon, James Davies, Aled Thomas, Rhys Patchell, Rory Thornton. These type of players are the gems wee need to be keeping here.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:So bad you've wiped their names from your memory.

Not so much wiped, just plain forgot about them.

Oh just remembered another, Duncan Hodge. The forward who played for Scarlets.

LordDowlais wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:That's not masses. I make that 11, plus these unnamed Americans. How many of them were there?

They were just off the top of my head. I can't remember all of them, but we have had a few howlers playing for the regions over the years.

Dragons had the centre, came from Overmach Parma
Mike Hercus was with the Scarlets and Dragons (so counts as two lol)
Blues had a scrum half, Pettrie or something
Ospreys had Chancey O'Toole (OK, he was Canadian, but technically North America lol)
Then there were The pre-regional one like Hodges, Gross, Snow, Baugh and I'm pretty such another prop of two (all North Americans)

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Chancey O'Toole

OMG, yes there's another one.

LordDowlais wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Lord, if anything that list just goes to show how the regions (bar the galacticos Ospreys days) have improved their new signings.  Looks positive to me

Yes I agree, but my original point I was debating with stone motif was, that the impetus should be keeping our best players here, the ones we are producing now, like James Davies and Rory Thornton, Rhys Patchell, these players are the future. Keep these types and use our academies as well. Yes, lets get the Xavier Rush's and the Regan King's as well, but lets not fall into our old habits and just sign players on a wing and a prayer. I am not a believer of just because he is Argentinian and he plays in the front row so he must be good, or he is South African and he is a second rower so he must be quality. Lets use what we have, and bolster it with quality NWQ players. But if we cannot get quality NWQ players, lets use our academies and the prem players.

The important thing is to retain our best XVs, then try to sign players who can either add strength in depth or replace some of the regular starters (regardless of nationality).

ScarletSpiderman wrote:The important thing is to retain our best XVs, then try to sign players who can either add strength in depth or replace some of the regular starters (regardless of nationality).

Yes, that is exactly what I was trying to say. But if the players coming in are NWQ, then they should not be middle of the road squad fillers to just do a job, surely we have those here already, like the one's wayne has mentioned, Cai Griffiths and Kristian Phillips.

LordDowlais wrote:Anyway, from that list the following I think we could have found players just as good in the prem or in the academies:-

Dolan
Scully
Crosswell
Harris
Jackson
Bernardo
Leonard
Fia
Paulino
Cowley

There's no better TH than Harris in the prem. If there was we would have found him. Not sure there's a scrum half capable of playing for the All Blacks in the prem either.