Champions Cup Pool 4: Munster v Leicester Tigers, 12 December

            
Munster Rugby v Leicester Tigers
Saturday 12 December 2015
KO: 19:45
Thomond Park, Limerick

Live on BT Sport / beIN Sports

Referee Romain Poite (France)
Touch Judge 1 Tual Trainini (France)
Touch Judge 2 Laurent Breil (France)
Fourth Official Ken Imbusch (Ireland)
TMO Gilles Cogne (France)

A. Head to Head

4 Played 4
2 Wins 2
2 Losses 2
0 Draws 0
56 Points 54

B. Recent Form

27 August 2010
Munster 13-17 Leicester

20 January 2007
Munster 6 - 13 Leicester

22 Oct 2006
Leicester 19 - 21 Munster  

13 April 2003
Leicester 7 - 20 Munster

25 May 2002
Leicester 15 - 9 Munster

C. Teams
Munster Rugby

15 Andrew Conway, 14 Keith Earls, 13 Francis Saili, 12 Denis Hurley, 11 Simon Zebo, 10 Ian Keatley, 9 Conor Murray, 1 James Cronin, 2 Niall Scannell, 3 BJ Botha, 4 Dave Foley, 5 Donnacha Ryan, 6 Robin Copeland, 7 Dave O'Callaghan, 8 CJ Stander (c).

Replacements: Mike Sherry, Dave Kilcoyne, John Ryan, Mark Chisholm, Jack O'Donoghue, Tomás O'Leary, Tyler Bleyendaal, Lucas Gonzalez Amorosino.

Leicester Tigers

15 Telusa Veainu, 14 Adam Thompstone, 13 Matt Smith, 12 Seremaia Bai, 11 Vereniki Goneva, 10 Owen Williams, 9 Ben Youngs, 1 Marcos Ayerza, 2 Tom Youngs, 3 Dan Cole, 4 Graham Kitchener, 5 Mike Fitzgerald, 6 Ed Slater (c), 7 Brendon O'Connor, 8 Lachlan McCaffrey.

Replacements: 16 Harry Thacker, 17 Matias Aguero, 18 Fraser Balmain, 19 Dom Barrow, 20 Tom Croft, 21 Sam Harrison, 22 Tommy Bell, 23 Gonzalo Camacho.

Pretty even going into this game, I can't call it

nathan wrote:Pretty even going into this game, I can't call it

Munster with a TBP.

George Carlin wrote:
A. Head to Head

4 Played 4
2 Wins 2
2 Losses 2
0 Draws 0
56 Points 54

B. Recent Form

27 August 2010
Munster 13-17 Leicester

20 January 2007
Munster 6 - 13 Leicester

22 Oct 2006
Leicester 19 - 21 Munster  

25 May 2002
Leicester 15 - 9 Munster

something looks wrong there. Looks like 3 wins to Leicester - though that 2010 game is a pre-season friendly.

LondonTiger wrote:

George Carlin wrote:
A. Head to Head

4 Played 4
2 Wins 2
2 Losses 2
0 Draws 0
56 Points 54

B. Recent Form

27 August 2010
Munster 13-17 Leicester

20 January 2007
Munster 6 - 13 Leicester

22 Oct 2006
Leicester 19 - 21 Munster  

25 May 2002
Leicester 15 - 9 Munster

something looks wrong there. Looks like 3 wins to Leicester - though that 2010 game is a pre-season friendly.

Good point - those were the games which I happened to find results for.

If any of that is wrong, please let me know. I don't think that pre-season games count on the ERC website.

2003 1/4 final is the missing match

http://www.leicestertigers.com/rugby/1927.php.

Cannot remember it, but not long after my second daughter was born - so maybe I was busy elsewhere.

Current Injury List:

Mulipola - knee
Bateman - not sure but looked in distress yesterday
Ghiraldini - leg
Mike Williams - Possible broken arm
Freddie Burns - Broken jaw, in training but inlikely to feature till boxing day
Manu Tuilagi - Groin, in training but inlikely to feature till boxing day
Mat Tait - Hamstring

Tait and williams regular starters this season, Burns and tuilagi missed whole season so far, rest bench cover. so really not too bad.

Possible lineup:

Ayerza*, Youngs*, Cole*, Slater (c), Kitchener, Croft*, O'Connor, Crane*; Youngs*, Williams, Goneva*, smith, Betham*, Thompstone, Veainu*

Thacker, Aguero*, Balmain, Fitzgerald, McCaffery, Harrison, Bai*, Bell.

LondonTiger wrote:2003 1/4 final is the missing match

http://www.leicestertigers.com/rugby/1927.php.

Cannot remember it, but not long after my second daughter was born - so maybe I was busy elsewhere.

Found it. OP updated.

I reckon we'll go with the O'Connor and McCaffery combo in the back row. Munster are animals at the breakdown and we'll need to be on our game there. Croft to challenge their line out. I think Fitzgerald may start ahead of Kitch as he's in better match fitness.

Smith in at 12 will be crucial. He's been the heart of our midfield this season. According to a report on the off the fans were calling from the stands for his introduction vs Worcester and he entered the fray grinning from ear to ear. We'll certainly need him to stop Saili before he gets his offloading game going.

I could not decide whether, in a tough away game with possibly dodgy weather, we needed Cranes control or McCaffery's breakdown work.

You won't need to worry about Munster at the breakdown too much - they are missing a lot of key players there and they have the inexperienced and out of position Jack O'Donoghue at openside flanker.

Crane has only looked good at the base of the scrum. I've not seen the game from yesterday but according to the offy he didn't shine. He needs to be hitting his straps to get into the back row and if it wasn't for the untimely injury to Williams I don't think he'd make the match day 23. He certainly hasn't been aggressive enough.

Rory it's Munster in Europe. I expect physical and abrasive as a minimum. Can't underestimate them particularly at Thomond irrespective of the players available.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Crane has only looked good at the base of the scrum. I've not seen the game from yesterday but according to the offy he didn't shine. He needs to be hitting his straps to get into the back row and if it wasn't for the untimely injury to Williams I don't think he'd make the match day 23. He certainly hasn't been aggressive enough.

Rory it's Munster in Europe. I expect physical and abrasive as a minimum. Can't underestimate them particularly at Thomond irrespective of the players available.

Of course it will be physical but they aren't going to be as much of a threat at the breakdown as you might think. In fact I would say that they are currently weak in this particular facet of the game. POC and POM in particular are a huge loss here.

How many of the guys who just lost to Dragons will feature next week?

LondonTiger wrote:How many of the guys who just lost to Dragons will feature next week?

Very few I would imagine. Expect to see Conor Murray, Ian Keatley, Francis Saili, Keith Earls and Andrew Conway come into the backline for a start. CJ Stander, BJ Botha, Mike Sherry, Donnacha Ryan and possibly Jack O'Donoghue to start in the pack.

Munster were very poor today, but they usually are before the European Cup, especially with a second string team.

I don't want to overstate how much they will improve- they could still lose this game. They are looking vulnerable at the moment, just like Ulster and Leinster. But they will certainly be a lot better than they were today. They have 9 or 10 first choice players coming back in.

If Munster lose next Saturday I will forego chocolate for the rest of December.

I'm a hoping for a good Tigers performance and a LBP. Keep the Munster score down and show that the team is still developing and I'd be happy. This isn't a finished and polished Tigers team.

I agree with the sentiment LT but no chance I'm forgoing nice food at the festive period.

I agree with fkaS that I'd settle for a LBP away to Thomond in the current weather.

1.Ayerza
2.Youngs
3.Cole
4.Slater
5.Fitzgerald
6.Croft
7.O'Connor
8.McCaffery

9.Youngs
10.Williams

11.Goneva
12.Smith
13.Betham
14.Thompstone
15.Veainu

16.Thacker
17.Aguero
18.Balmain
19.Kitchener
20.Crane
21.Harrison
22.Bai/Burns
23.Bell

It's a strong side on paper but I fear that we will lose a lot missing Tait at 15 in this sort of game. Veainu is electric ball in hand but isn't as solid as Tait is at keeping this tidy at the back. Something like that I expect to be key come Saturday.

LondonTiger wrote:If Munster lose next Saturday I will forego chocolate for the rest of December.

Don't be a fool, man. You obviously haven't thought this through.

Like that team Carlos. Slight concern over the lack of impact from Crane but if the weather is poor he might be in his element. I doubt Burns will be fit so Bai and Bell cover the back line fairly well.

I must admit that I haven't been impressed with Crane around the park thus far. I was half tempted to have Pearce on the bench for more impact in fact. As said in a tight game likely playing in a storm with a (hopefully) strong set-piece he could be an asset late on.

My main concern is that our backline could well have 4 wingers in it. Whilst they are a potent bunch going forward if the weather limits the ball they get I fear they could come undone against a strong kicking game.

George Carlin wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:If Munster lose next Saturday I will forego chocolate for the rest of December.

Don't be a fool, man. You obviously haven't thought this through.

Ah, but imagine the epic gluttony on January 1st if we manage to sneak a win.

king_carlos wrote:I must admit that I haven't been impressed with Crane around the park thus far. I was half tempted to have Pearce on the bench for more impact in fact. As said in a tight game likely playing in a storm with a (hopefully) strong set-piece he could be an asset late on.

My main concern is that our backline could well have 4 wingers in it. Whilst they are a potent bunch going forward if the weather limits the ball they get I fear they could come undone against a strong kicking game.

I'm a fan of Crane particularly in this type of game. Just don't feel he's hit his best form yet and I'd like to see him step up a gear and lay down a marker. There is a massive difference between him and McCaffery at the base of the scrum.

No worried too much about the kicking game and our back three. Might be worth switching Betham and Goneva to give us some extra aerial security. I'm more worried over Betham's sometimes suspect positioning at 13. Smith has dug him out of a few holes this season and it's not his natural position. Saili is a quality 12 who will take advantage of those positional errors.

Saili might well be out.

Sam - I wish I shared your lack of worries with the back three fielding kicks without Tait marshaling. I just worry that Veainu is a winger more than a full back and Niki's strength has never been turning to recover kicked ball. Betham could switch when needed though as you say.

Crane has looked good at the base so far but that's the only place he's impressed IMO. Around the park he has been lacking in his usual consistency and volume of carrying, in defence he has been largely anonymous.

It'd be such a shame if Saili is out. He's such a fun player to watch - even if he's often terrifying in the opposition! With POM and TOD already out of the Munster back row it would be a cruel blow as well.

What side do Munster fans expect to field? Something such as below?

1.Kilcoyne
2.Sherry
3.BJ Botha
4.Ryan
5.Chisolm
6.O'Callaghan
7.O'Donoghue
8.Stander

9.Murray
10.Keatley

11.Zebo
12.Hurley
13.Saili
14.Earls
15.Conway

16.Scannell
17.Cronin
18.Ryan
19.Foley
20.Copeland
21.O'Leary
22.Scannell
23.Van der Heever/O'Mahony/Amorosino?

I thought Crane had the highest tackle count for us at the weekend?

I hadn't seen that stat LT.

During the first 30 minutes I felt our defence was typified by quantity over quality. We were making hits but few with any real intent or ability to stop players at the point of contact.

Maybe it's the blue scrum cap that makes him more noticeable but I thought Crane typified this. I noticed one good hit early in the first half (on Betty I think) where Crane got a good shoulder hit and drove through to stop the carriers momentum behind the gainline. In fact I think this change of momentum forced a poor kick from Heathcote under pressure that won us back the ball with a line-out.

Other than this I felt more often than not he was slow with his line-speed and not hitting forward runners with the impact he should for a bloke his size. Too often he seemed to get carried over the gainline with what seemed like ease.

As said maybe I noticed him more than others because of the scrum cap - or as you've now pointed out because he made more tackles than most!

However I felt he was one of many who weren't hitting tackles with anywhere near the intensity that they should have during that first half.

TBF, on the dodgy picture I had I was getting confused at times with his and Kitch's caps.

I definitely did that with the scrum caps and poor picture. Looking at the stats on AP website it says Crane made 11 tackles with none missed however so the volume was definitely there. I'll try to watch the game back in better quality to see if my criticism was miss placed. I've just been a bit underwhelmed by Crane since his cameo off the bench in his first game back.

I must admit that Mike Williams was so quick to bounce back from tackles and back in the defensive line that for the first 5/10 minutes my mind told me the flanker with his head strapped was Brendan O'Connor. Maybe I'm not the best guy to listen to when it comes to observations on defence basically!

Munster Rugby
15. Andrew Conway; 14. Keith Earls, 13. Francis Saili, 12. Denis Hurley, 11. Simon Zebo; 10. Ian Keatley, 9. Conor Murray; 1. James Cronin, 2. Niall Scannell, 3. BJ Botha, 4. Dave Foley, 5. Donnacha Ryan, 6. Robin Copeland, 7. Dave O'Callaghan, 8. CJ Stander
16. Mike Sherry, 17. Dave Kilcoyne, 18. John Ryan, 19. Mark Chisholm, 20. Jack O'Donoghue, 21. Tomas O'Leary, 22. Tyler Bleyendaal, 23. Lucas Amorosino


Leicester Tigers
15. Telusa Veainu; 14. Adam Thompstone, 13. Matt Smith, 12. Seremaia Bai, 11. Vereniki Goneva; 10. Owen Williams, 9. Ben Youngs; 1. Marcos Ayerza, 2. Tom Youngs, 3. Dan Cole, 4. Graham Kitchener, 5. Michael Fitzgerald, 6. Ed Slater, 7. Brendon O'Connor, 8. Lachlan McCaffrey
16. Harry Thacker, 17. Matias Aguero, 18. Fraser Balmain, 19. Dom Barrow, 20. Tom Croft, 21. Sam Harrison, 22. Thomas Bell, 23. Gonzalo Camacho

I take it Betham is injured. A real shame if so, he's been great for us even out of position.

It looks like a side picked for nasty conditions. Slater in the back row and Bai as another kicking option in the centres.

Camacho could finally make a first team debut of the bench as well!

It will be a big test for Thacker at set-piece if OTY has to come off at any point.

Well we've gone big. No Tait and no Betham is a shame. Bai hasn't been in the best form this year so he'll need to step up tomorrow. Could have done with JDV making his debut.

Three big mobile locks shows we're expecting some bad weather and a tough game.

LondonTiger wrote:

nathan wrote:Pretty even going into this game, I can't call it

Munster with a TBP.

Still stand by this.

It's going to be an interesting game.

Given Munster are playing without a 7 and we have two in our back row so we will have to dominate the break down. If we can't prevent quick ball in defence there then that Munster back row has plenty of ball carriers.

Youngs vs Murray will be interesting to watch. At Thomond park in the conditions expected Munster will be hoping Murray can get on top of YBY.

Ayerza vs BJ Botha will be vital to the set-piece battle. I'd back Marcos to take it personally.

Saili vs our backline I'm worried about though. Smith has been a rock at 12 but doesn't have nearly the pace of Saili in the 13 channel. Bai hasn't been playing too well either.

Never seen a head to head between 2 teams whereby after four games against each other, they are only separated by 2 points. Amazing.

Injuries and rotation for the Tigers is the reason I think Munster will take this. Thomond is still a tough place to visit and pick up points.

Leicester look like a side made for a fight. 4-6 are very big powerful guys.

Should be a good game for the forwards, can't see the backs getting much ball

Can't really see past a Munster win tonight unless Leicester put in a superhuman effort. Should be a cracking match though and I agree that a LBP for Leicester would represent a good result for them.

yappysnap wrote:Leicester look like a side made for a fight. 4-6 are very big powerful guys.

Should be a good game for the forwards, can't see the backs getting much ball

Not just in the forwards. Bar Manu that's the biggest 10/11/12/13/14/15 we could have fielded. All over 15 stone. Just think that midfield is lacking something in attack, no quick feet nor out right pace mean it's probably running hard and straight from Bai and Smith. Don't think that'll be enough.

Pack is big and combative. Our best hope is that we can get in amongst the Munster set piece and force them to keep balk in hand where our dual opensides can force turnovers.

LondonTiger wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

nathan wrote:Pretty even going into this game, I can't call it

Munster with a TBP.

Still stand by this.

Yeah sadly I can't see past a 5-0 win for Munster. I'd be more than happy if Tigers can keep it tight and hold it to 4-1, then try and open it up in the return fixture.

There won't be many tries today. Weather isnt the best

Weather can't be blamed for passes like that

LondonTiger wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

nathan wrote:Pretty even going into this game, I can't call it

Munster with a TBP.

Still stand by this.

The days of Munster being pretty much unbeatable at home have passed. Tigers are a very solid team and Munster are misfiring. I would hope for a Munster win but I would not be surprised to see the Tigers win.

Can't see us winning, expect Munster to have a great game

I hope you are right Nathan but as I said, Thomond is not the fortress it once was.

eirebilly wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

nathan wrote:Pretty even going into this game, I can't call it

Munster with a TBP.

Still stand by this.

The days of Munster being pretty much unbeatable at home have passed. Tigers are a very solid team and Munster are misfiring. I would hope for a Munster win but I would not be surprised to see the Tigers win.

Tigers aren't as solid as they used to be. Very much under development at the minute.

I'm going to go outlandish (i.e. heart before head) and call Tigers by 4. Munster 19-23 Tigers.

Must admit to have not seen much of the Tigers play lately Sam but they were always a very solid team so I bow to your superior knowledge on them now.

I really dislike the Tigers as a Munster fan which is probably the biggest compliment I can give them