3G pitches, cause for concern ??

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3G pitches, cause for concern ??

Post by PenfroPete on Tue 16 Feb 2016, 1:16 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35585392

I know the Arms Park has 3G as do Sarries and Newcastle Falcons. Are there any plans for others to follow suit ?


Last edited by PenfroPete on Wed 17 Feb 2016, 8:16 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: 3G pitches, cause for concern ??

Post by toml on Tue 16 Feb 2016, 1:36 pm

It's well worth thinking about. Why play sports on natural, heathy, oxygen emitting grass when you could play on a field of toxic rubber. Typical humanity not realising what is good for it.

We get a list of ingredients and nutritional information on the food we consume. It would be interesting to see the information on the environment we spend time in

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Re: 3G pitches, cause for concern ??

Post by TrailApe on Tue 16 Feb 2016, 1:41 pm

That's a crying shame what happened to that lad - terrible, but whilst I can appreciate their pain I'm a bit worried about these trends.

Ok - lets ban 3g pitches - but how far are you going to go?

My time was at grass roots level (well a bit lower than that - pond weed level mebbes) and I've played on some pretty horrendous surfaces. My club was an ex colliery club and god knows what pollutants were in the soil and most of the smaller clubs in my area had similar types of set ups. That's urban Tyneside, when you go out into the sticks and even if it's a reasonable sized club if you are 3rd/4th team you'll be playing on some paddock that's a bit wild. Played Alnwick once and the pitch was covered in cow Poopie, could never get the 'grass' stains out of my shorts.

So my heart goes out to the Lad and his Dad, but how far are we going to end up going?

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Re: 3G pitches, cause for concern ??

Post by demosthenes on Tue 16 Feb 2016, 2:17 pm

PenfroPete wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35585392

I know the Arms Park has 3G as do Sarries and Newcastle Falcons. Are there any plans for others to follow suit ?

Glasgow Warriors had just confirmed that an artificial pitch is to be laid at Scotstoun over the summer. Everyone is referring to it as a 3G pitch, which has the rubber (or sand) infill implicated in this. The next generation (4G) doesn't have this sort of infill, but depending on who you speak to there are different standards, and I understand that none (or few) of these are IRB approved as yet.

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Re: 3G pitches, cause for concern ??

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 16 Feb 2016, 2:30 pm

TrailApe wrote:
My time was at grass roots level (well a bit lower than that - pond weed level mebbes) and I've played on some pretty horrendous surfaces. My club was an ex colliery club and god knows what pollutants were in the soil and most of the smaller clubs in my area had similar types of set ups. That's urban Tyneside, when you go out into the sticks and even if it's a reasonable sized club if you are 3rd/4th team you'll be playing on some paddock that's a bit wild. Played Alnwick once and the pitch was covered in cow Poopie, could never get the 'grass' stains out of my shorts.

We used to play a few sides over on the Cumbrian coast, in sight of Sellafield. Pitches would be more sand than anything which would lacerate knees and elbows. Worse though was I swear it would glow.

On the East coast, Peterlee and Billingham were "fun" places to play with some of the Hartlepool clubs not far behind. Tyneside felt luxurious. Wink

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Re: 3G pitches, cause for concern ??

Post by TrailApe on Tue 16 Feb 2016, 2:44 pm

We used to play a few sides over on the Cumbrian coast, in sight of Sellafield. Pitches would be more sand than anything which would lacerate knees and elbows. Worse though was I swear it would glow

It does make you wonder doesn't it?

Our pitch (Seghill Colliery Welfare) was heavily sanded and that formed a fine paste with the (atrocious stinking) mud, so locks and number 8's had the sides of their faces abraded during the game due to contact with muddy shorts in the scrums, god knows what was being ground into our skin.

As for the more rural pitches - Tynedale is often flooded and it's not just good old fashioned sewage that gets there it's the run-off all of that lovely stuff (both biological and chemical) that the farmers spray onto their fields, an exotic mixture to enrich the heady soup that is a rugby pitch in mid February.

Mind you I agree Sellafield is 'a bit dodgy' and East Durham could be improved (levelled by glaciers being the greenest option)

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Re: 3G pitches, cause for concern ??

Post by Exiledinborders on Tue 16 Feb 2016, 2:56 pm

I am very sorry that this young man has died but to link an individual cancer case to a specific cause without any evidence does not really make any scientific sense.

In order to logically ban 3G pitches you would have to show that any cancer risk is greater than the health benefits derived from having pitches that can be played upon more regularly.

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Re: 3G pitches, cause for concern ??

Post by sad_gimp on Tue 16 Feb 2016, 4:38 pm

Interesting....when I was living in Hong Kong most of the pitches were 3g. Worst thing was that in a tropical climate the pitches are basically bacteria sponges, had to scrub down with disinfectant after games!

Pretty concerning the stuff about the rubber chippings though, you get absolutely smothered in them.

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Re: 3G pitches, cause for concern ??

Post by doctor_grey on Wed 17 Feb 2016, 12:09 pm

mid_gen wrote:Interesting....when I was living in Hong Kong most of the pitches were 3g. Worst thing was that in a tropical climate the pitches are basically bacteria sponges, had to scrub down with disinfectant after games!

Pretty concerning the stuff about the rubber chippings though, you get absolutely smothered in them.
These pitches are all over the US, in the south as well as the north, and have been for a long time.  The pitches are multi-sport, used at schools levels with American Football, soccer, Lacrosse, and even Rugby.  I have heard about potential links to various diseases, but haven't seen any firm evidence or strong correlations.    I agree they are certainly be incubators for various bacteria.

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Re: 3G pitches, cause for concern ??

Post by sad_gimp on Wed 17 Feb 2016, 12:43 pm

doctor_grey wrote:
mid_gen wrote:Interesting....when I was living in Hong Kong most of the pitches were 3g. Worst thing was that in a tropical climate the pitches are basically bacteria sponges, had to scrub down with disinfectant after games!

Pretty concerning the stuff about the rubber chippings though, you get absolutely smothered in them.
These pitches are all over the US, in the south as well as the north, and have been for a long time.  The pitches are multi-sport, used at schools levels with American Football, soccer, Lacrosse, and even Rugby.  I have heard about potential links to various diseases, but haven't seen any firm evidence or strong correlations.    I agree they are certainly be incubators for various bacteria.

Oh I don't think that's a particular downside. Anything wet and spongy and hot in tropical climates is going to be a bacterial breeding ground. I picked up a few skin infections before I started soaking a nylon scrubber with disinfectant and scrubbing any grazes after games!

Better than the pink-eye I use to get from playing in the goose-Poopie covered mud in Barnes!

It is a little concerning some of the claims about the black rubber chip dust....certainly hope involved sports bodies put some money forward for some scientific testing.

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Re: 3G pitches, cause for concern ??

Post by Hazel Sapling on Wed 17 Feb 2016, 2:57 pm

Should be tested, but considering the amount of hockey that are played on these pitches (in addition to football) to have dust from a 3G pitch starting to be a concern now over a single case is rather strange. From my perspective this should have been studied originally when they started using these materials and, if they carry carcinogens this far down the line, someone has screwed up big time.

More likely what the American doctor said. I played on some 3G (well, astroturf) pitches and can imagine they incubate some nasty bugs. Cleaning is probably the big issue here not the pitches in of themselves.


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Re: 3G pitches, cause for concern ??

Post by demosthenes on Wed 17 Feb 2016, 3:40 pm

Hazel Sapling wrote:Should be tested, but considering the amount of hockey that are played on these pitches (in addition to football) to have dust from a 3G pitch starting to be a concern now over a single case is rather strange. From my perspective this should have been studied originally when they started using these materials and, if they carry carcinogens this far down the line, someone has screwed up big time.

More likely what the American doctor said. I played on some 3G (well, astroturf) pitches and can imagine they incubate some nasty bugs. Cleaning is probably the big issue here not the pitches in of themselves.  


Isn't the spec for hockey different - I thought a lot of the hockey pitches were watered rather than having the rubber / sand infill?

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Re: 3G pitches, cause for concern ??

Post by Hazel Sapling on Wed 17 Feb 2016, 3:56 pm

I am not 100% sure of that. At Durham Uni there was one water based and one sand based according to my hockey housemates. The water played better, but a lot of hockey matches were played on the sand based.

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Re: 3G pitches, cause for concern ??

Post by demosthenes on Wed 17 Feb 2016, 4:59 pm

Hazel Sapling wrote:I am not 100% sure of that. At Durham Uni there was one water based and one sand based according to my hockey housemates. The water played better, but a lot of hockey matches were played on the sand based.

Ok, so probably water- based purely for hockey; and sand for a multi-purpose one. Don't think that the sand ones are IRB approved, though, so for rugby we would only be worrying about the rubber chip infill. And as I understand it the next generation don't have this sort of infill either, but a cushioned underlay.

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Re: 3G pitches, cause for concern ??

Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Wed 17 Feb 2016, 7:21 pm

I cannot comment on the use of 3G pitches and any possible health hazards, but in my colts days we had a pitch nicknamed the elephant pitch, one corner had been heavily fertilised by circus elephants over a number of years, it was a quagmire after the first drizzle, I hate to think of what I ingested over the years getting my face buried deep in that area.

I emerged with what seems like a very good immune system, unfortunately the physical side of my anatomy fared somewhat worse; well after another 30 years of playing anyway.

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Re: 3G pitches, cause for concern ??

Post by doctor_grey on Wed 17 Feb 2016, 10:07 pm

mid_gen wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
mid_gen wrote:Interesting....when I was living in Hong Kong most of the pitches were 3g. Worst thing was that in a tropical climate the pitches are basically bacteria sponges, had to scrub down with disinfectant after games!

Pretty concerning the stuff about the rubber chippings though, you get absolutely smothered in them.
These pitches are all over the US, in the south as well as the north, and have been for a long time.  The pitches are multi-sport, used at schools levels with American Football, soccer, Lacrosse, and even Rugby.  I have heard about potential links to various diseases, but haven't seen any firm evidence or strong correlations.    I agree they are certainly be incubators for various bacteria.

Oh I don't think that's a particular downside. Anything wet and spongy and hot in tropical climates is going to be a bacterial breeding ground. I picked up a few skin infections before I started soaking a nylon scrubber with disinfectant and scrubbing any grazes after games!

Better than the pink-eye I use to get from playing in the goose-Poopie covered mud in Barnes!

It is a little concerning some of the claims about the black rubber chip dust....certainly hope involved sports bodies put some money forward for some scientific testing.
I see you know some of my old girlfriends.........

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