Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

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Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by LordDowlais on Wed 17 Feb 2016, 12:41 pm

First topic message reminder :

Christ on a bike, there's some money to be earned in France, and Japan by the looks of things. How are Wasps going to stay under the salary cap if they are going to pay Pocock £1.4 million+ a season ? 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/11300999/Rugbys-rich-list-the-highest-paid-players-in-the-world.html?frame=3576484


the IRFU are paying Sexton and Puitua 500k each a year, that's massive money. I reckon the salary caps in Europe will disappear in time, where is all this money coming from. Shocked

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by ScarletSpiderman on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 2:07 pm

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

Yes 7, maybe you want to go back and reread the quote. That leaves 17 in the squad as Welsh Qualified, just like I posted and given that Underhill and Bernardo are not capped they fall under the residency rules

Balls back in your court Sport Whistle

7+17 = 24

How many in a match day 23?

laughing

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by BamBam on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 2:28 pm

This English rugby fan has no interest in seeing Welsh clubs join our league system

Hopefully the RFU, PRL etc agree with me

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by ScarletSpiderman on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 2:58 pm

I would be happy to see the end of the Euro-Cup and bring in a new Euro-League with three tiers, no guarantied places in any of the tiers based on nationality.  But that is not going to happen.  An anglo-welsh league would just be a different version of the Pro12 IMO, where the English will hold the whip as opposed to the Irish.  And the same goes for a B&I League, as it will need clauses in it to ensure that there are Scottish, Welsh and Irish sides in the top tier, so again it is just another Pro12 but with English instead of Italians, so I would give that a miss too.

So all in all I am happy enough to say what we have now is far from perfect, but working out what we can do to fix it, as opposed to axing it and starting with a new comp with all new issues to iron out again.

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by Kingshu on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 3:14 pm

Huddersfield Town once got a crowd of 67,037 when playing Arsenal in the FA cup sixth round does mean if they played Arsenal again in the 6th round they would get a big crowd.

Sometimes people look back as say the Welsh clubs used to get great attendances but the regions ruined it.

But before the regions look at the Welsh attendance figures when it used to be the Welsh league with Scots and Irish added
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001–02_Celtic_League

Not one Welsh club derby got more than 5000, by the late 90's and 00's the Welsh clubs were in decline, it is nice to look back at some big crowds, but by this stage they were struggling, and nothing would suggest playing the English would have improved it.

However we can look now see 52,762 (Cardiff Blues v Ospreys / Dragons v Scarlets )
IS the best attendance in the League as a positive for the Regions.


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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by ScarletSpiderman on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 3:20 pm

Kingshu, it is generally a case of nostalgia with a number of people when talk about the pre-regional days. They remember the big event days, and forget the horrid weather dead rubber games. The regions have not had many of the real big event days, we have all had one or two of them, so people seem to focus on the crappy aspects instead like a silly kickoff time on a Friday (to allow people to still see RWC matches etc) instead.

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by carpet baboon on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 3:26 pm

Spider and king I agree it's not perfect for anyone, but killing it off to chase the PRL is not the answer. Maybe working together? That might help

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by ScarletSpiderman on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 3:31 pm

carpet baboon wrote:Spider and king I agree it's not perfect for anyone, but killing it off to chase the PRL is not the answer. Maybe working together? That might help

Yeah I would agree with that. I have been saying for a while that as the older generation pass on to the next realm, then we will start to see less calls for a return to the old system, and more support for what we have, and what we can achieve.

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by Sin é on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 3:57 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Sin é wrote:
You will be hopping mad then at the £65m that the GAA (HQ Dublin) have got from the NI Executive to develop Casement Park in Belfast Very Happy (though the difference here is that GAA HQ are also funding the Ulster GAA 15m towards the development costs.  

The long and the short of it is that the British Government have invested very little money in sporting facilities in NI and are now making up for their lack of investment. You seem to forget that the IRFU (and GAA) are Not-for-Profit organisations so that everything that is generated will be remain in the sport. There will also be agreements that sport has to be played at Ravenhill, otherwise the money will have to be returned.

Other ROI based companies that would be in receipt of funding from NI Executive are the owners of the Titanic Centre, Harcourt Development which is a Dublin based company.

Wonderfully accepting, yes. It makes a mockery of competition, however. From what I gather, GAA isn't played against teams outside of the island.

Not sure what your point is when you say it 'makes a mockery of competition.'

The GAA does have teams that compete in the All Ireland Championship from outside Ireland - New York & London, apart from the 100s of clubs all over the world. There are annual tournaments in Asia and Middle East. 30,000 turned up to a game in the Boston Red Sox's Fenway recently. Thats had a better turnout than any Welsh Rugby Club game.

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by carpet baboon on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 4:16 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:Spider and king I agree it's not perfect for anyone, but killing it off to chase the PRL is not the answer. Maybe working together? That might help

Yeah I would agree with that.  I have been saying for a while that as the older generation pass on to the next realm, then we will start to see less calls for a return to the old system, and more support for what we have, and what we can achieve.

I do hope so, I have been to many a game in Wales and loved them all, but could you do something about Newport?

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by exile jack on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 4:24 pm

PhilBB wrote:
exile jack wrote:

Phil,i'm not conflating anything but merely trying to address the elephant in the room.Several French and English clubs are willing to pay significant salaries to players often because player salaries are embedded into wider and more complex commercial and financial structures.Nothing necessarily illegal about that but debt,however defined,does have to be paid or written off eventually.
The imports,who are not there for development,have several impacts on the game in the countries that import them:
-they can distort competition between the better and less well off clubs;
-they can make salary inflation endemic in club,across clubs and across geographical boundaries;
-they can prevent development of non-import players,and of teams both at club and international level.

If clubs are prepared to pay what imported players and their agents feel is the going rate that is perfectly fine at one level and good luck to the players but there are consequences for the game.

I'm not sure that i'd want to go down the draft pick route of the NFL but if salary inflation is essentially limiting competition success to just a handful of clubs that can't be good for the game can it?

Sustainability is about being able to continue trading and paying wages. JIFF is about French raised players. They are separate issues.

You've assumed that the 'imports' will be getting paid more than the 'locals'. I'd suggest that isn't true, but rather the better players are just better paid.

Yes, limited competition success to a handful of clubs is good for the game as it incentivises the non-successful clubs to improve. That is the very definition of sport.

Phil,sorry I missed your earlier post as i've been out.Your definition of sustainabilty appears to include only the haves but not the have nots.JIFF is a clear attempt by the FFR to address development issues in French rugby through a focus on imports and the salary inflation they have brought and are bringing.The evidence from the Top 14 club websites is that the imports are being paid more than the locals.Your point on competition is interesting because taken to a logical conclusion we'd only have 4 players playing ATP Masters tennis,about 6 cyclists in the TDF and only Usain Bolt and Mo Farah in half the Olympic men's field events.These salaries and the salary inflation they bring distorts competition as i've said above.At least with the French the data is in the public domain but funnily enough there's no DNACG for the Aviva nor any sanction for exceeding the salary cap.I wonder why.




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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by LordDowlais on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 4:24 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:So all in all I am happy enough to say what we have now is far from perfect, but working out what we can do to fix it, as opposed to axing it and starting with a new comp with all new issues to iron out again.

This 100%. I could not agree more with that statement.

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by PhilBB on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 4:42 pm

carpet baboon wrote:I agree LD back in the day. But times they have changed. the PRL have no need or want to include the welsh teams no matter what they call themselves.
Phill hates the pro12 and by extension the irish. He wants a fantasy land where his club arerich and successfully. So he starts an argument about how it's terrible that the UK government gave money to a part of the UK to develop a brilliant sporting stadia to the betterment of the UK people, to try and show how hard done by he is, and sucked people into an argument.
And he did, congratulations, ibet his Kleenex took a mighty hit too. What's sad is he can make valid points he just chooses to argue them rather than debate them
And yes were all as bad as each other at times.
Spose what I'm saying is if Phil wants to start an injustices thread please do so. I doubt it though.

Using words like 'hate.... the Irish' is rather stupid. As is the rest of that post, in fairness.

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by PhilBB on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 4:43 pm

BamBam wrote:This English rugby fan has no interest in seeing Welsh clubs join our league system

Hopefully the RFU, PRL etc agree with me

I received a very different message at Harlequins recently. Funny that.

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by PhilBB on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 4:44 pm

carpet baboon wrote:Spider and king I agree it's not perfect for anyone, but killing it off to chase the PRL is not the answer. Maybe working together? That might help

It certainly is the only answer.

The IRFU see their branches as nothing but feeders for Team Ireland. That is where the measure of success is. That, amongst many other issues, makes the PrO'12 a tainted league.

It will never sell in Wales.

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by PhilBB on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 4:45 pm

Sin é wrote:
30,000 turned up to a game in the Boston Red Sox's Fenway recently. Thats had a better turnout than any Welsh Rugby Club game.

That's as good as the previous bloke claiming 7+17 = 23.

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by PhilBB on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 4:48 pm

exile jack wrote:
Phil,sorry I missed your earlier post as i've been out.Your definition of sustainabilty appears to include only the haves but not the have nots.JIFF is a clear attempt by the FFR to address development issues in French rugby through a focus on imports and the salary inflation they have brought and are bringing.The evidence from the Top 14 club websites is that the imports are being paid more than the locals.Your point on competition is interesting because taken to a logical conclusion we'd only have 4 players playing ATP Masters tennis,about 6 cyclists in the TDF and only Usain Bolt and Mo Farah in half the Olympic men's field events.These salaries and the salary inflation they bring distorts competition as i've said above.At least with the French the data is in the public domain but funnily enough there's no DNACG for the Aviva nor any sanction for exceeding the salary cap.I wonder why.

Again, there you go with the claim that it is 'imports' that are driving up salaries. Where's this evidence that you claim to have?

And your athletics and cycling analogies are not a 'logical conclusion' as they ignore the key element of human frailty. At any time, Bolt could injure himself, not prepare adequately, fall over or just have a bad day. Ditto Djokovic.

It's a shame that there is no DNACG in English rugby but at least you have Companies House. You don't even have that for the IRFU branches.

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by carpet baboon on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 4:50 pm

PhilBB wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:I agree LD back in the day. But times they have changed. the PRL have no need or want to include the welsh teams no matter what they call themselves.
Phill hates the pro12 and by extension the irish. He wants a fantasy land where his club arerich and successfully. So he starts an argument about how it's terrible that the UK government gave money to a part of the UK to develop a brilliant sporting stadia to the betterment of the UK people, to try and show how hard done by he is, and sucked people into an argument.
And he did, congratulations, ibet his Kleenex took a mighty hit too. What's sad is he can make valid points he just chooses to argue them rather than debate them
And yes were all as bad as each other at times.
Spose what I'm saying is if Phil wants to start an injustices thread please do so. I doubt it though.

Using words like 'hate.... the Irish' is rather stupid. As is the rest of that post, in fairness.

Co.e on Phil the Kleenex gag was solid gold and you know it.
But way to make a pointers..... Champ

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by PhilBB on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 4:51 pm

carpet baboon wrote:
Co.e on Phil the Kleenex gag was solid gold and you know it.
But way to make a pointers..... Champ

The Kleenex bit was playing to a gallery of 15 year old boys, I thought. Each to their own.

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by carpet baboon on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 4:52 pm

PhilBB wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:Spider and king I agree it's not perfect for anyone, but killing it off to chase the PRL is not the answer. Maybe working together? That might help

It certainly is the only answer.

The IRFU see their branches as nothing but feeders for Team Ireland. That is where the measure of success is. That, amongst many other issues, makes the PrO'12 a tainted league.

It will never sell in Wales.

Ok so what are these other issues?

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by carpet baboon on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 4:54 pm

PhilBB wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:
Co.e on Phil the Kleenex gag was solid gold and you know it.
But way to make a pointers..... Champ

The Kleenex bit was playing to a gallery of 15 year old boys, I thought. Each to their own.

Well you were my intended audience so good aim I say

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by wayne on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 4:54 pm

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

Ok Phil you're right, I'm wrong Erm Tumbleweed picard

Ospreys team this weekend:

Hassler, Englebrecht, Leonard, Fia, Underhill, Bernardo, Matavesi

7 of the 23.

You were saying?
Phil, answer this for me please, do the Ospreys RFC hold the signatures of the 7 named players above? Please do some research before answering.

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by Munchkin on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 4:54 pm

PhilBB wrote:
exile jack wrote:
Phil,sorry I missed your earlier post as i've been out.Your definition of sustainabilty appears to include only the haves but not the have nots.JIFF is a clear attempt by the FFR to address development issues in French rugby through a focus on imports and the salary inflation they have brought and are bringing.The evidence from the Top 14 club websites is that the imports are being paid more than the locals.Your point on competition is interesting because taken to a logical conclusion we'd only have 4 players playing ATP Masters tennis,about 6 cyclists in the TDF and only Usain Bolt and Mo Farah in half the Olympic men's field events.These salaries and the salary inflation they bring distorts competition as i've said above.At least with the French the data is in the public domain but funnily enough there's no DNACG for the Aviva nor any sanction for exceeding the salary cap.I wonder why.

Again, there you go with the claim that it is 'imports' that are driving up salaries. Where's this evidence that you claim to have?

And your athletics and cycling analogies are not a 'logical conclusion' as they ignore the key element of human frailty. At any time, Bolt could injure himself, not prepare adequately, fall over or just have a bad day. Ditto Djokovic.

It's a shame that there is no DNACG in English rugby but at least you have Companies House. You don't even have that for the IRFU branches.

You don't think the French paying big money for imports is driving up salaries? Really?

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by PhilBB on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 4:58 pm

carpet baboon wrote:

Ok so what are these other issues?

Gerrymandering of teams, poor officials who are not neutral, poor kick off times, no travelling support, woeful TV contracts, lack of interest, list goes on.

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by PhilBB on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 4:58 pm

carpet baboon wrote:
Well you were my intended audience so good aim I say

Oh dear.

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by PhilBB on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 4:59 pm

wayne wrote:
Phil, answer this for me please, do the Ospreys RFC hold the signatures of the 7 named players above? Please do some research before answering.

There is no 'Ospreys RFC' so if you're trying to play the Underhill card then have a think about Llandarcy Park employees.

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by wayne on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 4:59 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I would be happy to see the end of the Euro-Cup and bring in a new Euro-League with three tiers, no guarantied places in any of the tiers based on nationality.  But that is not going to happen.  An anglo-welsh league would just be a different version of the Pro12 IMO, where the English will hold the whip as opposed to the Irish.  And the same goes for a B&I League, as it will need clauses in it to ensure that there are Scottish, Welsh and Irish sides in the top tier, so again it is just another Pro12 but with English instead of Italians, so I would give that a miss too.

So all in all I am happy enough to say what we have now is far from perfect, but working out what we can do to fix it, as opposed to axing it and starting with a new comp with all new issues to iron out again.
SS, spot on, I'm more than happy for a little tweaking here and there, the English can carry on on their own, thanks very much.

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by PhilBB on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 5:00 pm

Munchkin wrote:
You don't think the French paying big money for imports is driving up salaries? Really?

I think, like for like, they pay as much for their own big name players.

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by carpet baboon on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 5:00 pm

PhilBB wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:

Ok so what are these other issues?

Gerrymandering of teams, poor officials who are not neutral, poor kick off times, no travelling support, woeful TV contracts, lack of interest, list goes on.

And who is to blame for these issues?

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by PhilBB on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 5:02 pm

carpet baboon wrote:
And who is to blame for these issues?

Primarily the PrO'12. Martin Anayi has a nigh on impossible task to make this a proper league.

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by wayne on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 5:02 pm

PhilBB wrote:
wayne wrote:
Phil, answer this for me please, do the Ospreys RFC hold the signatures of the 7 named players above? Please do some research before answering.

There is no 'Ospreys RFC' so if you're trying to play the Underhill card then have a think about Llandarcy Park employees.
Underhill's contract is held by Bridgend RFC and he plays on contract with us, 2 different organisations. LLandarcy Park holds the contract of NO players.

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by Munchkin on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 5:03 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
You don't think the French paying big money for imports is driving up salaries? Really?

I think, like for like, they pay as much for their own big name players.

Of course they do, but they are paying bigger salaries for their own, and because they, the French, are contributing hugely to player inflation by paying big money for players outside of France.

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by carpet baboon on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 5:05 pm

PhilBB wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:
And who is to blame for these issues?

Primarily the PrO'12. Martin Anayi has a nigh on impossible task to make this a proper league.

Who makes up the board of the pro12

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by PhilBB on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 5:06 pm

wayne wrote:
Underhill's contract is held by Bridgend RFC and he plays on contract with us, 2 different organisations. LLandarcy Park holds the contract of NO players.

Bloody hell.

Llandarcy Park (Ospreys) ltd. Company Number 05856104

In 2014 accounts, it notes to employ 102 rugby players.

Wayne, mun, you couldn't have made much more of a completely incorrect claim.

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by PhilBB on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 5:07 pm

Munchkin wrote:
Of course they do, but they are paying bigger salaries for their own, and because they, the French, are contributing hugely to player inflation by paying big money for players outside of France.

Big money to players outside of France to match the salaries they are paying to their own, yes.

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by PhilBB on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 5:08 pm

carpet baboon wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:
And who is to blame for these issues?

Primarily the PrO'12. Martin Anayi has a nigh on impossible task to make this a proper league.

Who makes up the board of the pro12

Representatives of the four shareholders and some Irish chaps. You can find it online if you'd like to expand your mind.

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by carpet baboon on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 5:11 pm

Ah Phil now, is there any need for that

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by Munchkin on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 5:12 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Of course they do, but they are paying bigger salaries for their own, and because they, the French, are contributing hugely to player inflation by paying big money for players outside of France.

Big money to players outside of France to match the salaries they are paying to their own, yes.

You're getting that back to front. It's the big money being spent on imports that is the primary cause of player inflation, and this in turn is driving player inflation for their own players.

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by PhilBB on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 5:14 pm

Munchkin wrote:
You're getting that back to front. It's the big money being spent on imports that is the primary cause of player inflation, and this in turn is driving player inflation for their own players.

I'd say the reverse to you. Either way, there's little evidence to support either claim.

What we have, of course, is the woeful narrative that 'import bad because he take money' and the equally bad narrative of 'ah, de good ol local boy, he play for the pride in der jersey', neither of which hold up to any kind of scrutiny.

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by Munchkin on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 5:20 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
You're getting that back to front. It's the big money being spent on imports that is the primary cause of player inflation, and this in turn is driving player inflation for their own players.

I'd say the reverse to you. Either way, there's little evidence to support either claim.

What we have, of course, is the woeful narrative that 'import bad because he take money' and the equally bad narrative of 'ah, de good ol local boy, he play for the pride in der jersey', neither of which hold up to any kind of scrutiny.

You are completely wrong. The evidence is all there in the T14 - The huge increase in T14 broadcasting revenue, the big spending club owners, and the surge in buying imports.

Importing players isn't bad, in fact it can be good for the game. Not adequately controlling the flow, and the spend, on these players is. That much should be obvious.

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by PhilBB on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 5:23 pm

Munchkin wrote:

You are completely wrong. The evidence is all there in the T14 - The huge increase in T14 broadcasting revenue, the big spending club owners, and the surge in buying imports.

Importing players isn't bad, in fact it can be good for the game. Not adequately controlling the flow, and the spend, on these players is. That much should be obvious.

There's a surge in spending money on French players, too. Your analysis ignores that. Where is the evidence that 'imports' drive up wages?

If you think about it logically, and this has played out in Wales, trying to hit a target of 'local' players is what drives up wages as the 'locals' are a smaller pool to fish in than the global pool.

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by Munchkin on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 5:37 pm

I didn't ignore it, I already pointed out that the surge in spending on imports has driven up player wages for their own players. In fact it's driven up player wages world wide.

I've already stated that the evidence is there in T14. You just have to look at Toulon, for example. Boot on the other foot, where is your evidence that it's French owners buying French players that's causing this wage inflation? Are you seriously trying to claim that the value of top French players are more than that of the imports? It's you that is ignoring the fact of the surge in importing players, and the subsequent rise in player wages.

Your second point isn't very logical. It ignores the fact that keeping local players is so much harder because of wage inflation caused by the big clubs buying imports.

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by exile jack on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 5:51 pm

Munchkin wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
exile jack wrote:
Phil,sorry I missed your earlier post as i've been out.Your definition of sustainabilty appears to include only the haves but not the have nots.JIFF is a clear attempt by the FFR to address development issues in French rugby through a focus on imports and the salary inflation they have brought and are bringing.The evidence from the Top 14 club websites is that the imports are being paid more than the locals.Your point on competition is interesting because taken to a logical conclusion we'd only have 4 players playing ATP Masters tennis,about 6 cyclists in the TDF and only Usain Bolt and Mo Farah in half the Olympic men's field events.These salaries and the salary inflation they bring distorts competition as i've said above.At least with the French the data is in the public domain but funnily enough there's no DNACG for the Aviva nor any sanction for exceeding the salary cap.I wonder why.

Again, there you go with the claim that it is 'imports' that are driving up salaries. Where's this evidence that you claim to have?

And your athletics and cycling analogies are not a 'logical conclusion' as they ignore the key element of human frailty. At any time, Bolt could injure himself, not prepare adequately, fall over or just have a bad day. Ditto Djokovic.

It's a shame that there is no DNACG in English rugby but at least you have Companies House. You don't even have that for the IRFU branches.

You don't think the French paying big money for imports is driving up salaries? Really?

Phil,you seem to be having an interesting day.In reply to your points i'd say that doing your own research is a courtesy that should be respected but if it helps take a random 7 Top14 club websites and log in to their supporters club pages plus the French sports media say over the past 12-24 months.Failing that you could websearch the sayings of Boudjellal on his vision(s) for French and European rugby.I'd be interested to know what he and other leading club owners would make of your phrase 'limited competition success'.What does that mean? I'm happy with my competition examples.In fact the NFL draft pick system was designed specifically to create a level playing field absent of distortion by rich owners and commercial agents.Without it there'd be far fewer teams in the NFL so the US Collegiate football system would be trying to cram a metaphorical quart into a 1/4 pint pot with regard to player numbers.I'm afraid that I can't take your reference to Companies House seriously.It bears no comparison to the DNACG and the role an English equivalent could have.The recent outcome of the 'investigation' into alleged salary cap breaches in the Aviva seems to suggest a lot is being hidden under confidentiality provisions that are of course legally robust.

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by Sin é on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 6:24 pm

PhilBB wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:

Ok so what are these other issues?

Gerrymandering of teams, poor officials who are not neutral, poor kick off times, no travelling support, woeful TV contracts, lack of interest, list goes on.

Gearald Davies on the lack of sponsorship etc:

gerald davies wrote:The civil war between the WRU and the Regions went on for two years. It was a very unsettling, awkward time, which affected the television rights and sponsorship deals. It created so much uncertainty. Companies weren’t going to invest in something where no one was sure of the future. Now we have people on board to move forward. There’s a certainty about the competition and we feel optimistic.
Read more at http://www.rugbyworld.com/countries/italy/the-big-pro12-interview-can-it-keep-pace-with-the-premiership-and-top-14-53103#SVAUVFWc6vcKWk4M.99

We've really had to put up with an awful lot of sh*te from the Welsh Regions.

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by carpet baboon on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 6:35 pm

Sin é wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:

Ok so what are these other issues?

Gerrymandering of teams, poor officials who are not neutral, poor kick off times, no travelling support, woeful TV contracts, lack of interest, list goes on.

Gearald Davies on the lack of sponsorship etc:

gerald davies wrote:The civil war between the WRU and the Regions went on for two years. It was a very unsettling, awkward time, which affected the television rights and sponsorship deals. It created so much uncertainty. Companies weren’t going to invest in something where no one was sure of the future. Now we have people on board to move forward. There’s a certainty about the competition and we feel optimistic.
Read more at http://www.rugbyworld.com/countries/italy/the-big-pro12-interview-can-it-keep-pace-with-the-premiership-and-top-14-53103#SVAUVFWc6vcKWk4M.99

We've really had to put up with an awful lot of sh*te from the Welsh Regions.

Be careful sin Phil might call you a dumbo then try and educate you.

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by Stone Motif on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 7:37 pm

PhilBB wrote:
wayne wrote:
Underhill's contract is held by Bridgend RFC and he plays on contract with us, 2 different organisations. LLandarcy Park holds the contract of NO players.

Bloody hell.

Llandarcy Park (Ospreys) ltd. Company Number 05856104

In 2014 accounts, it notes to employ 102 rugby players.

Wayne, mun, you couldn't have made much more of a completely incorrect claim.

Laugh

Ask him why the Ospreys are the One True Region, or who is the better player is of Tipuric and Warburton, he'll do his damnedest to prove you wrong.

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by PhilBB on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 7:45 pm

Munchkin wrote:I didn't ignore it, I already pointed out that the surge in spending on imports has driven up player wages for their own players. In fact it's driven up player wages world wide.

I've already stated that the evidence is there in T14. You just have to look at Toulon, for example. Boot on the other foot, where is your evidence that it's French owners buying French players that's causing this wage inflation? Are you seriously trying to claim that the value of top French players are more than that of the imports? It's you that is ignoring the fact of the surge in importing players, and the subsequent rise in player wages.

Your second point isn't very logical. It ignores the fact that keeping local players is so much harder because of wage inflation caused by the big clubs buying imports.

You've ignored the bit where I wrote that neither argument is provable? Yes, you did.

I'm glad that your final paragraph notes how the IRFU didn't win HECs with boys playing just for da craic

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by PhilBB on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 7:46 pm

Sin é wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:

Ok so what are these other issues?

Gerrymandering of teams, poor officials who are not neutral, poor kick off times, no travelling support, woeful TV contracts, lack of interest, list goes on.

Gearald Davies on the lack of sponsorship etc:

gerald davies wrote:The civil war between the WRU and the Regions went on for two years. It was a very unsettling, awkward time, which affected the television rights and sponsorship deals. It created so much uncertainty. Companies weren’t going to invest in something where no one was sure of the future. Now we have people on board to move forward. There’s a certainty about the competition and we feel optimistic.
Read more at http://www.rugbyworld.com/countries/italy/the-big-pro12-interview-can-it-keep-pace-with-the-premiership-and-top-14-53103#SVAUVFWc6vcKWk4M.99

We've really had to put up with an awful lot of sh*te from the Welsh Regions.

You mean so much sh*te from the WRU.

Never mind, come back when you can get a tv contract worth more than €1m.

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by PhilBB on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 7:47 pm

Stone Motif wrote:

Ask him why the Ospreys are the One True Region, or who is the better player is of Tipuric and Warburton, he'll do his damnedest to prove you wrong.

His comment was incredible. Just incredible. I wonder if he'll address the reply?

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by Stone Motif on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 7:53 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:

Ask him why the Ospreys are the One True Region, or who is the better player is of Tipuric and Warburton, he'll do his damnedest to prove you wrong.

His comment was incredible. Just incredible. I wonder if he'll address the reply?

I daresay he might. There will be CAPITALS

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

Post by Munchkin on Thu 18 Feb 2016, 7:53 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:I didn't ignore it, I already pointed out that the surge in spending on imports has driven up player wages for their own players. In fact it's driven up player wages world wide.

I've already stated that the evidence is there in T14. You just have to look at Toulon, for example. Boot on the other foot, where is your evidence that it's French owners buying French players that's causing this wage inflation? Are you seriously trying to claim that the value of top French players are more than that of the imports? It's you that is ignoring the fact of the surge in importing players, and the subsequent rise in player wages.

Your second point isn't very logical. It ignores the fact that keeping local players is so much harder because of wage inflation caused by the big clubs buying imports.

You've ignored the bit where I wrote that neither argument is provable? Yes, you did.

I'm glad that your final paragraph notes how the IRFU didn't win HECs with boys playing just for da craic

There you go twisting and turning in a silly attempt to dig yourself out. The point you make about either side not being provable is nonsense. The proof is all there in front of you, but you can't acknowledge it as you would then lose face. Not that you're not with your line of argument. Just about everyone in the rugby world knows that the French spending power, buying in imports, has driven wage inflation. Everyone bar you that is.

Your last little snipe is a hit and a miss. What on earth are you babbling about? Also, if your xenophobic distortion of language is meant to offend, you have failed. It does nothing other than make you appear petty and juvenile.

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Re: Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

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