6N 2016: Scotland v France, 13 March

First topic message reminder :

   
SCOTLAND v FRANCE
13 March 2016
KO: 15:00 GMT
BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh

Live on BBC, FR2, RTE, FR2, DMAX / ITV(H)

Referee: Glen Jackson (New Zealand)
Touch judges: [tbc]
Television match official: [tbc]

A. Head to Head

85 Played 85
34 Won 49
2 Drawn 2
49 Lost 34
1,009 Points 1,150

B. Recent Form

5 September 2015: Stade de France, Saint-Denis
19 – 16 to France

7 February 2015 : Stade de France, Saint-Denis
15 – 8 to France

8 March 2014: Murrayfield, Edinburgh
17 – 19 to France

16 March 2013: Stade de France, Saint-Denis
23 – 16 to France

26 February 2012: Murrayfield, Edinburgh
17 – 23 to France

5 February 2011 : Stade de France, Saint-Denis
34 – 21 to France

7 February 2010 : Murrayfield, Edinburgh
9 – 18 to France

C. Teams

SCOTLAND 
 
[tbc]

FRANCE

[tbc]

Maj - completely agree on Vakatawa. France are using him to carry a lot of ball and he often comes off his wing. If we get a turnover it should be the first thought in Laidlaw's mind to look for that space. There may well be a covering forward but Seymour and Visser should have no trouble getting clear if the winger isn't there.

I have mixed views about Fofana. He's one of the best attacking runners in world rugby, and has incredible balance and stepping ability. As a specialist 12 he's also no stranger to tackling, but I'd concur that a few high balls are worth a look. He'll also be used to seeing more of the ball and like Vakatawa could be tempted off his wing. Thankfully Visser never ever leaves his wing looking for work, so he should be ready to capitalise.

We're going to see a lot of narrow rugby on Sunday, with France sending some pretty heavy traffic through the middle and around the rucks. I really do hope that Strauss is given a shot rather than Wilson. We need a wall rather than a speed bump.

also agree that none of our back 3 are good under higher ball (well Spedding is actually a bit better than Medart but not near the standard required imo). the only French players that are actually good at this are Dulin (not picked) and Huget (injured). it's worth mentioning that there was a lot of emphasis on such phases in this week training camp but generally it's not something that coach teach to kids over here (in fact backs are not allowed to kick the ball at all). A guy like Dulin has been learning on his own as he had to compensate for being relatively small.
am also worried about the actual defense positioning Fofana on the wing and fullback covering when/Spedding ends in the bottom of a ruck as he sure will do (chances are that vakatawa will be nearby as well, leaving lads of space for fast Scots to attack widein case of turnovers).

Morning guys, we've got an article up about the atmosphere at Scotland games and what we can do to help. I wouldn't normally do a plug, but I think this is important.

http://www.scotlandrugbynews.com/2016/03/the-day-i-lost-faith-in-scotland/

great initiative SRN

SRN wrote:Morning guys, we've got an article up about the atmosphere at Scotland games and what we can do to help. I wouldn't normally do a plug, but I think this is important.

http://www.scotlandrugbynews.com/2016/03/the-day-i-lost-faith-in-scotland/

I agree with this, and it isn't a new thing. In the 1990s I went to loads of 5 Nations games and the atmosphere was almost febrile compared to what it is now. Granted I was a schoolboy then and surrounded by hoards of other schoolboys in the cheap seats in the corner, and these days I try to pay for a seat so I can actually see what's going on, but the last few years I've gone it's been noticeable that apart from the odd Mexican Wave (which has zero impact in supporting the team) there has been almost no fan participation once the anthem is concluded. In fact I frequently find myself being stared as like some sort of lunatic when I get wound up about things and start cheering and shouting!

I welcome this initiative.

whocares wrote:great initiative SRN

Thanks but can't take the credit, Song For Murrayfield kicked it off. We're just getting behind it.

I brought a few English football loving friends to the game. Had been bigging up the experience of a rugby match for ages. Was pretty embarrassing actually.

I don't think it's anyone's fault or that we lack passion (otherwise why would we keep going with the results?!), it's just that we're got used to having nothing to shout about. Now we do have something to shout about, we don't know what to do with ourselves.

Scotland team out. Exactly the team I would have picked. Strauss in for Wilson, who benches, Dunbar in for Bennett and Taylor moves out one space to OC.

It was a winning team last time out, so never going to be many changes, Bennett dropped on form and Struass has been looking back to his best on his last two runs out for Glasgow. Time for him to show us that he is an international rugby player. To be fair, he has not really had that much of a chance yet, the WC being his first opportunity.

Excellent team.

If Strauss plays like he has done for the last two Glasgow games, he'll be absolutely fine.

Just hope Dunbar remains unbroken and that the forwards do their job.

Tattie, I agree that it is an excellent team.

Not so sure about the bench.

Are Sutherland and Low our best alternatives?

Is Tim Swinson (who has been in great form for Glasgow) an impact sub?

Has Samwise Gamgee done anything to deserve his place on the bench over Henners?

If we lose any of the back three we could see the Schlong facing up to Wesley Fofana

Bench has always been an issue Jimbo. It's the one area the coaches always seem to get wrong.

It's like they pick form for the 1st XV and then can't be arsed to think about the bench in any great detail so keep it the same.

for all the critics you lot have towards Lamont, you have to remember he's the only Scottish player in that team that tasted victory against France

jimbopip wrote:Tattie, I agree that it is an excellent team.

Not so sure about the bench.

Are Sutherland and Low our best alternatives? - Yes pretty much, Zander not quite ready yet and Gordy found a little bit wanting at this level

Is Tim Swinson (who has been in great form for Glasgow) an impact sub? Not really, but again, no one else really making a compelling case at the moment.

Has Samwise Gamgee done anything to deserve his place on the bench over Henners? No, but maybe a match to soon for Henners. Sammy will need to go off at the end of this tournament for a long hard think!

If we lose any of the back three we could see the Schlong facing up to Wesley Fofana

- Trust in his Seanness, he won't let us down. The young kids will start trickling in from next year onwards. Let him have his swansong, this will be his last match at Murrayfield for Scotland!

BigGee wrote:

jimbopip wrote:Tattie, I agree that it is an excellent team.

Not so sure about the bench.

Are Sutherland and Low our best alternatives? - Yes pretty much, Zander not quite ready yet and Gordy found a little bit wanting at this level

Is Tim Swinson (who has been in great form for Glasgow) an impact sub? Not really, but again, no one else really making a compelling case at the moment.

Has Samwise Gamgee done anything to deserve his place on the bench over Henners? No, but maybe a match to soon for Henners. Sammy will need to go off at the end of this tournament for a long hard think!

If we lose any of the back three we could see the Schlong facing up to Wesley Fofana

- Trust in his Seanness, he won't let us down. The young kids will start trickling in from next year onwards. Let him have his swansong, this will be his last match at Murrayfield for Scotland!

Understand what you're saying BigGee but personally, I don't want to give a nice send off to a loyal player. I want us to win the feicing match with something to spare. We'll only do that with our best players - and that includes the bench.

Thats the starting XV I wanted to see, the backrow looks to have a nice balance and i'm intrigued to see what Dunbar and Taylor can do.

That being said, the continued selection of Swinson is a headscratcher, and I would have opted for a different mix of backs in the subs.

Very possibly Gee, let's hope he has an end of season finale at the library to look forward to as well.

Mr Scones, I'm sure they put a little bit more effort into choosing the bench; probably wash a few eckies down with a pint or two of FES's finest Montrachet then sit around in a circle shouting names out at random. The ones that make them spontaneously pish themselves go down on the teamsheet, but sharpish.

jimbopip wrote:Tattie, I agree that it is an excellent team.

Not so sure about the bench.

Are Sutherland and Low our best alternatives?

Is Tim Swinson (who has been in great form for Glasgow) an impact sub?

Has Samwise Gamgee done anything to deserve his place on the bench over Henners?

If we lose any of the back three we could see the Schlong facing up to Wesley Fofana

May just be that VC thinks it is too big a risk to bench Henry after 60mins game time in the last 6 months.

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:

BigGee wrote:

jimbopip wrote:Tattie, I agree that it is an excellent team.

Not so sure about the bench.

Are Sutherland and Low our best alternatives? - Yes pretty much, Zander not quite ready yet and Gordy found a little bit wanting at this level

Is Tim Swinson (who has been in great form for Glasgow) an impact sub? Not really, but again, no one else really making a compelling case at the moment.

Has Samwise Gamgee done anything to deserve his place on the bench over Henners? No, but maybe a match to soon for Henners. Sammy will need to go off at the end of this tournament for a long hard think!

If we lose any of the back three we could see the Schlong facing up to Wesley Fofana

- Trust in his Seanness, he won't let us down. The young kids will start trickling in from next year onwards. Let him have his swansong, this will be his last match at Murrayfield for Scotland!

Understand what you're saying BigGee but personally, I don't want to give a nice send off to a loyal player. I want us to win the feicing match with something to spare. We'll only do that with our best players - and that includes the bench.

Probably the only player who you would pick ahead of Lamont would be Sean Maitland and clearly something has gone on there with him and Cowan being dropped from the squad over the injury issues. VC must feel that they have let the squad down in some way, it does seem very odd that they are considered not fit for a saturday game and then picked by their clubs on the sunday!

Hoyland is a talent but to throw him into this game would not be the way to develop him, same with Brown or Fife who have never really consistently shown that they have the true international pedigree. Taylor on the wing was an option, but it is not his natural positon and Bennett does look like he needs a rest.

I think we will see the changing of the guard over the summer tour and next autumn's internationals and some of the younger wingers will be given their chances to stake their claims. I have been a critic of SL in the past and am amazed that he is still getting capped at this stage in his career. That is not his fault though, he still turns up and gives it 100% and brings a lot else to the squad. As someone else said, he has actually beaten the French. If he is still getting capped at this stage, then it is because the others are not putting a compelling case in for their selection!

Scotland team: Stuart Hogg; Tommy Seymour (both Glasgow), Duncan Taylor (Saracens), Alex Dunbar (Glasgow), Tim Visser (Harlequins); Finn Russell (Glasgow), Greig Laidlaw (Gloucester, capt); Al Dickinson, Ross Ford, Willem Nel (all Edinburgh); Richie Gray (Castres); Jonny Gray (Glasgow); John Barclay (Scarlets), John Hardie (Edinburgh), Josh Strauss (Glasgow).

Replacements: Stuart McInally, Rory Sutherland (both Edinburgh), Moray Low (Exeter), Tim Swinson, Ryan Wilson (both Glasgow), Sam Hidalgo-Clyne (Edinburgh), Peter Horne, Sean Lamont (both Glasgow).

The starting XV is great - exactly what I wanted to see. My only changes would be to the bench:

Tim Swinson - Ben Toolis
Ryan Wilson - David Denton or Hamish Watson
Sam Hidalgo-Clyne - Henry Pyrgos
Sean Lamont - Sean Maitland or Mark Bennett

Still, I don't feel massively strongly about any of the above. This is a good team, and we have a chance.

whocares wrote:for all the critics you lot have towards Lamont, you have to remember he's the only Scottish player in that team that tasted victory against France

We will have to shoot him to get that shirt off his back

Happy with the team. Thats some back row there.

feel for Bennett, I'd have probably benched him and left out old Sean instead! But Lamont is a grafter. He looks for work. He is defensively sound. He's just not very fast these days. What he lacks in attacking prowess, he makes up for in attitude and defense!

backrow looks decent. Hope Strauss bring his club form to the international level. Next year we'll have the greatest backrower currently playing the game to add to the back row competition! A Barlcay/Haride/Du Preez backrow makes me giddy with excitement!

funnyExiledScot wrote:The starting XV is great - exactly what I wanted to see. My only changes would be to the bench:

Tim Swinson - Ben Toolis
Ryan Wilson - David Denton or Hamish Watson
Sam Hidalgo-Clyne - Henry Pyrgos
Sean Lamont - Sean Maitland or Mark Bennett

Still, I don't feel massively strongly about any of the above. This is a good team, and we have a chance.

Agree with those changes fEs, with the exception of Wilson, who I begrudgingly admit had a good game against Italy.

As much as I would have liked to have seen Bennett on the bench, what Shlong does offer is go forward ball, in and around the ruck area. I watched a repeat of DTH's crucial semifinal try against Ulster the other day, in the preceding phases the old goat had 2 key busts that created momentum. Not what a winger is out there to do, but effective nonetheless.

Sean Lamont has been an excellent servant and is still a good club player. At the moment, with Maitland out, he is arguably the next best player on the wing and is experienced enough to come on to be a cool head. If Scotland are leading at 60, he will not be the reason we inevitably screw it up.

Swinson has played well recently and showed some form. Still prefer Toolis.

Wilson is okay. I would have preferred Harley. Watson is small, inexperienced at this level and if Strauss gets injured there is a lack of grunt in the backrow. At least with Harley you can put Barclay at 8 and still have a balanced enough back row. Wilson should be told your coming in at 8 regardless and move others to accommodate that as required.

SHC should be nowhere near the bench. In fact, I would put Ali Price ahead at the moment.

Front row I am happy enough.

French team is up...

As feared Trinh Duc is back

France: 15 Scott Spedding,1 4 Virimi Vakatawa, 13 Gaël Fickou, 12 Maxime Mermoz, 11 Wesley Fofana, 10 François Trinh-Duc, 9 Machenaud Machenaud, 8 Damien Chouly, 7 Yacouba Camara, 6 Wenceslas Lauret, 5 Alexandre Flanquart, 4 Yoann Maestri, 3 Rabah Slimani, 2 Guilhem Guirado (c), 1 Jefferson Poirot
Replacements: 16 Camille Chat, 17 Vincent Pelo, 18 Uini Atonio, 19 Sebastien Vahaamahina, 20 Loann Goujon, 21 Sébastien Bézy, 22 Jules Plisson, Maxime Médard.

French team officially announced and is 100% as expected :

15. Spedding, 14. Fofana, 13. Mermoz, 12. Fickou, 11. Vakatawa, 10. Trinh-Duc, 9. Machenaud, 8. Chouly, 7. Camara, 6. Lauret, 5. Flanquart, 4. Maestri, 3. Slimani, 2. Guirado (cap), 1. Poirot.
Subs: : Chat, Atonio, Pelo, Vahaamahina, Goujon, S. Bézy, Plisson, Médard

Like the impact that could bring Atonio, Vahaamahina and Goujon in the 2H. bring it on and hope the weather is dry on sunday!

Am deeply disappointed that they've called Trinh-Duc back just for us!

That doesn't seem fair somehow.

he was injured before - FTD seems to be the number 1 FH in Noves mind from day 1 though...

Feels strange to say this but the French starting pack do not terrify me. The front 5 is solid without being spectacular and the back row is, IMO, unproven at this level and nowhere near what it has been in the recent past. The backs are scarier with a good half back combination and playmakers from 11-14. Who is the defensive lynchpin in the backs?

That bench will be devastating when they come in. Scotland really need to be 15+ points up at the hour mark for me to feel confident that it can happen.

Does anyone know if the U20 game is being streamed?

cakeordeath wrote:Does anyone know if the U20 game is being streamed?

I'm told it is, through the SRU website.

Ah found it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SWCbowK8ac

Hazel Sapling wrote:Feels strange to say this but the French starting pack do not terrify me. The front 5 is solid without being spectacular and the back row is, IMO, unproven at this level and nowhere near what it has been in the recent past. The backs are scarier with a good half back combination and playmakers from 11-14. Who is the defensive lynchpin in the backs?

That bench will be devastating when they come in. Scotland really need to be 15+ points up at the hour mark for me to feel confident that it can happen.

They are certainly missing Picamoles at number 8. With him in place and Chouly at 6 they are a more dangerous proposition. Still, their front row concerns me. Not so much for scrummaging technique but ball carrying and work around the park. The hooker and captain is a phenominal player.

In one way I really want Scotland to win but in another way I don't because if they do win, their confidence will be high going into the Ireland match.

I have predicted a Scotland win though so best of luck all you Scottish fans

eirebilly wrote:In one way I really want Scotland to win but in another way I don't because if they do win, their confidence will be high going into the Ireland match.

I have predicted a Scotland win though so best of luck all you Scottish fans

Cheers! We'll need some luck.

A Scotland win is good for Ireland anyway - most likely it secures you 3rd place rather than 4th.

Just don't win too well the funnyExiledScot, don't want your lot getting too confident

That French side looks formidable.. Fofana, Spedding, Trinh-Duc, Fickou, Maestri and then of course the front row and the star performer so far in Guirado. Typical France to decide to d**k around all tournament and then put out a more sensible side 4th game in

Bookies might have Scotland as favourites and all the media may seem to think Scotland can win.. but that team is just so much better than the one who played Wales. I am expecting a tough game and probably another disapointment for Scotland unfortunately. I really hope not though!!

Anyone watch the under 20s game? It was frustrating because we generally competed well against a monstrous French team but some shambolic moments really cost us.

The opening 3 minutes was pretty embarrassing from Scotland with stupid mistakes spreading through the team leading to their first try. Their last try was pretty weak defending too.

The scrum struggled despite Fagerson returning but you need more than one good prop for your scrum to hold.

The lineout was disappointing given the size of the locks we have.

Plenty positives again though - we fronted up against a massive French pack and look to have some backs of real quality who should be able to make a step up soon.

Morning all, welcome back RDW the pipe and slippers man, I'm in full-blown Pte Fraser mode. The French have been utterly shambolic, they have a back division where everyone is in the wrong position or shouldn't be there at all and a 10 who makes Rhuaridh Jackson look like Jonny Wilkinson's more reliable and predictable brother. You know what they are likely to do.

We're doomed, doomed I tell ye.

Ah the joys of being a Scottish rugby supporter. Waking up on game day and all your optimism has turned to dred.

I feel this is a must win game for Scotland.

To prove that the win over Italy was not a one off.


To prove that Scotland have moved forward.


Good luck Scotland.

Well to put some context into what a win would mean today, Scotland have only beaten France at Murrayfield twice in the professional era (that's 20 years BTW) and haven't beaten France at all in 10 years.

I'm sure in that time we've come across plenty worst French team's ever and come up short!

RDW_Scotland wrote:

I'm sure in that time we've come across plenty worst French team's ever and come up short!

Unfortunately some of our teams in that time frame will not go down as legends either!

Dry, no wind and 12 degrees - perfect weather for rugby!

You'll have 50 million ppl south of gretna supporting you today. Come on Scotland!

RDW_Scotland wrote:Well to put some context into what a win would mean today, Scotland have only beaten France at Murrayfield  twice in the professional era (that's 20 years BTW) and haven't beaten France at all in 10 years.

I'm sure in that time we've come across plenty worst French team's ever and come up short!

Yup, to progress Scotland really do need to put some of these poor stats to bed. That with just beating Wales, home or away, beating or England at Twickenham next year, it gets boring hearing the same thing every time that fixture comes round...

RDW_Scotland wrote:Dry, no wind and 12 degrees - perfect weather for rugby!

Looking at the match-ups in the backs;

Hogg-Spedding  Scotland
Seymour- Fofana Scotland
Taylor- Fickou France
Dunbar- Mermoz a 100% fit Pudding Eater by a mile, but is he?
Visser- Vakatawa Ball in hand McMisser should skin him, but if the big laddie runs at Trembling Tim we'll see his famous impersonation of the Lucky Strike saloon doors.

Dancer-Tin Duck anybody's guess, both are sublime or not.
Laidlaw- Machenaud Frodo has been The Little General nonpareil let's hope he keeps it up.

So, advantage Scotland but only just.

Of course the game will be won or lost in the forwards.

Oh no. I'm starting to get the squirty bum disease that is Scottish Pre-match Optimism. Make it go away, mommy, make it go away.

I know what's going to happen. I'll be Scarlett waiting by the farking stairs; that's what. Oh god. Surely we're overdue a win here?

We're doomed!