6N 2016: England v Wales, 12 March

by **George Carlin** Sat 05 Mar 2016, 5:48 pm

First topic message reminder :

6N 2016: England v Wales, 12 March - Page 20 Englan11

6N 2016: England v Wales, 12 March - Page 20 Wales10

ENGLAND v WALES
12 March 2016
KO: 16:00 GMT
Twickenham, London

Live on ITV, RTE, SC4, FR2, DMAX / BBC (H)

Referee: Craig Joubert (South Africa)
Touch judges: [tbc]
Television match official: [tbc]

A. Head to Head

119 Played 119
53 Won 54
12 Drawn 12
54 Lost 53
1,428 Points 1,371

B. Recent Form

26 September 2015: Twickenham, London
25 – 28 to Wales
2015 Rugby World Cup Pool A

6 February 2015: Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
16 – 21 to England
2015 Six Nations

9 March 2014: Twickenham Stadium, London
29 – 18 to England
2014 Six Nations

16 March 2013: Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
30 – 3 to Wales
2013 Six Nations

25 February 2012: Twickenham Stadium, London
12 – 19 to Wales
2012 Six Nations

13 August 2011: Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
19 – 9 to Wales
2011 Rugby World Cup warm up test

6 August 2011: Twickenham, London
23 – 19 to England
2011 Rugby World Cup warm up test

C. Teams

ENGLAND
6N 2016: England v Wales, 12 March - Page 20 Carygr10

6N 2016: England v Wales, 12 March - Page 20 Carygr10

[tbc]

WALES
6N 2016: England v Wales, 12 March - Page 20 Burton10

[tbc]

by **RiscaGame** Sat 12 Mar 2016, 7:52 pm

brennomac wrote:If a humble neutral (Irish) can intrude on this discussion, England should be concerned that having about 65% of possession and the vast amount of territory they still scored only the one try while a team they had dominated physically for the whole game scored three tries. England will need to be a lot more clinical as they progress.

Like most people thought Itoje was great - Kruis too, Haskell gave away his usual stupid penos, Ben Youngs passing is too slow, Ford was poor, defence for Faletau's try very poor too Also shows that Billy V can be stopped if people tackle him low around the ankles.

No question England deserve to be top of the table but there are still lots of glitches to be sorted out.

I thought that Billy V was amazing today, judging by triple crown understanding expert madge?

by TightHEAD Sat 12 Mar 2016, 7:58 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Joubert was poor in general come scrum time, penalising Cole when Evans was boring in and vice versa, seemed to be just guessing who was infringing. There was also the time Vunipola went down and he reset the scrum instead of a clear Welsh penalty.

Refs always guess at the scrum, usually balances out over the game.

by Cumbrian Sat 12 Mar 2016, 8:02 pm

brennomac wrote:If a humble neutral (Irish) can intrude on this discussion, England should be concerned that having about 65% of possession and the vast amount of territory they still scored only the one try while a team they had dominated physically for the whole game scored three tries. England will need to be a lot more clinical as they progress.

Like most people thought Itoje was great - Kruis too, Haskell gave away his usual stupid penos, Ben Youngs passing is too slow, Ford was poor, defence for Faletau's try very poor too Also shows that Billy V can be stopped if people tackle him low around the ankles.

No question England deserve to be top of the table but there are still lots of glitches to be sorted out.

Would agree with this. I actually think there was an opportunity for England to nill Wales in this game and score a couple of more tries. England need to be more clinical.

by exile jack Sat 12 Mar 2016, 8:03 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:
exile jack wrote:Well played England I'll repeat that,"WELL PLAYED ENGLAND".We were fortunate to be only 16 points down at half-time.Lack of composure,brainless kicking,stupid penalties,missed tackles,lost lineouts and loss of breakdown battle.The last 20 minutes just demonstrated how poor our first half was.It's not the first time this has happened.Quite a few reputations expired at Twickers today.AWJ and Bradley D are our worst lock combination and Scott Baldwin on current form should never be keeping Ken O out of the team. Neither Biggar nor Warburton warrant selection on today's performance.But this isn't NZ so we'll get more of the same.Our trip to NZ is looking more worrying by the match.Well played England.I'm off to the pub to take the verbal stick from the English supporters.

Thing is though you have to look at more than just one performance. Baldwin has really raised his game and Davies had a very very good game v France but both were poor today in a poor team effort. Warburton struggled but then Tipuric done nothing when he came on either.

You could argue the case that now we cant win the championship does he totally changed the side for next week or just tinker with it and then start phasing players in and out in New Zealand.

Personally I would go with

Same front row
Bring Charteris in to 2nd row
Leave backrow unless Warburton ruled out which seems good chance
Start Webb
Start Amos

Bring Moriarty on to the bench and I wouldn't be too upset if he started Priestland.

I agree, but I'd go Webb and Biggar to start, Cawdor and Priest on the bench (or vice versa) as they are tried and tested partnerships.

Biggar hasn't seemed the same since Sexton gave him a lesson in 10 play when the O's played Leinster recently.Whether Wales' gameplan requires him to play so deep is one for our world class backs coach(forgive hint of sarcasm).Baldwin drops the ball far too often and persists in running 1 up and then being turned over.AWJ looks knackered.So i'd hope Gatland does a changing of the guard and picks Moriarty,Ball,Charteris,Owens,Webb and Priestland.Given how many tackles Cuthbert missed today,Amos must be given a chance.After today's debacle for 60+ minutes no one's place to NZ should be guaranteed except Liam W.It's a good job we play England again before NZ.Inflatable sheep just appeared in pub.Time to worry!!!!

by TightHEAD Sat 12 Mar 2016, 8:27 pm

What's that 59-57, but hey who's counting Whistle

by Hoonercat Sat 12 Mar 2016, 8:28 pm

Weird game. The first half was the best I've seen England play for a long while, but in the final 20 minutes they were woeful and lost all shape, while Wales played the way everyone knows they can play, except Wales. Wales can play exceptional free-flowing rugby when they want to, I just wish they wouldn't do it against us. Very Happy

I was beginning to have my doubts about Robshaw and his 'invisible work', but his absence after he went off was all too visible, not helped by Cole (was he the only person in the stadium not to realize that a yellow was in the air?).
Itoje was immense, Billy V needs to practice his tackling technique, Nowell was excellent. Brown looks slower every game yet still manages to skip tackles and make yards, I can only assume the opposition expect him to be 2 metres in front of where he actually is when they throw themselves in for the tackle Very Happy

by **RiscaGame** Sat 12 Mar 2016, 8:29 pm

Spooky

Evans, Owens, Lee, Longdog, AWJ, Sam (if fit), Tips, Best 8 in NH, Webb, Biggar, Amos, Doc, JD2, North, Williams

That's my team v Italy. Cut loose. I wouldn't pick tips normally, but in a game like this with nothing to lose, that's what I'd pick.

by offload Sat 12 Mar 2016, 8:34 pm

Outstanding from England, very well played. Pointless picking holes in their performance as this is only 4 games in for Jones and he will probably get a GS at first attempt. Much still to develop but a great day's work.

Wales were simply awful. Scoring two late tries masks a serious problem that shouldn't be swept away. Many in Wales will not agree with me that we need a change in coaching and call it a knee jerk reaction, but IMO this coaching team has run its course and a fresh approach is needed. The collective dour, safety first, boring approach of Gatland, Howley and McBryde is killing this team. Wales have brought nothing to this 6N's accept a defensive performance against possibly the worst French team of all time.

At the best of times Wales look clueless with the ball, when a team matches and beats them physically like today, clueless becomes a shambles.

by bedfordwelsh Sat 12 Mar 2016, 8:35 pm

RiscaGame wrote:Spooky

Evans, Owens, Lee, Longdog, AWJ, Sam (if fit), Tips, Best 8 in NH, Webb, Biggar, Amos, Doc, JD2, North, Williams

That's my team v Italy. Cut loose. I wouldn't pick tips normally, but in a game like this with nothing to lose, that's what I'd pick.

I'd be happy with that with Risca, though as said before I would have really liked to see Moriarty get a crack. When you look at the squad over all and the injuries to some of our backs we really don't have a lot of options on who to change there.

by bedfordwelsh Sat 12 Mar 2016, 8:36 pm

offload wrote:Outstanding from England, very well played. Pointless picking holes in their performance as this is only 4 games in for Jones and he will probably get a GS at first attempt. Much still to develop but a great day's work.

Wales were simply awful. Scoring two late tries masks a serious problem that shouldn't be swept away. Many in Wales will not agree with me that we need a change in coaching and call it a knee jerk reaction, but IMO this coaching team has run its course and a fresh approach is needed. The collective dour, safety first, boring approach of Gatland, Howley and McBryde is killing this team. Wales have brought nothing to this 6N's accept a defensive performance against possibly the worst French team of all time.

At the best of times Wales look clueless with the ball, when a team matches and beats them physically like today, clueless becomes a shambles.

I think most will agree with you on that point.

by Guest Sat 12 Mar 2016, 8:38 pm

Haven't had the time to read the posts but wanted to say well done England. Smashed us good and proper. Thought it would be close but wasn't to be. Sort of was toward the end. But in reality you creamed us. Damn. Positives for Wales toward the end but overall just 60 mins of gash.

Good luck for the GS

by majesticimperialman Sat 12 Mar 2016, 8:51 pm

Griff wrote:Haven't had the time to read the posts but wanted to say well done England. Smashed us good and proper. Thought it would be close but wasn't to be. Sort of was toward the end. But in reality you creamed us. Damn. Positives for Wales toward the end but overall just 60 mins of gash.

Good luck for the GS

Cheers Griff. not many Welsh fans seem to be saying that, (well done England.)

It was a real nail biter in the end.

by glamorganalun Sat 12 Mar 2016, 8:52 pm

The only time I remember seeing Warburton was going off on the stretcher, Wales subs made a big impact, England's were poor. Webb provided much better service for the backs to operate, Davies had his poorest gave with passes all over the place.

In fairness D Biggar changed the game with his determined charge down before the subs came on. England clearly won the line out battle and the breakdown, there was not a lot in the scrum.

Cuthbertt again was poor giving England go forward, not sure about Amos or Walker but there are handy wings coming through the U20's.

by TightHEAD Sat 12 Mar 2016, 8:56 pm

http://www.englandrugbystore.com/stores/ers/en/product/england-2016-triple-crown-winners-t-shirt/180736

by True Raven Sat 12 Mar 2016, 9:08 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:
Griff wrote:Haven't had the time to read the posts but wanted to say well done England. Smashed us good and proper. Thought it would be close but wasn't to be. Sort of was toward the end. But in reality you creamed us. Damn. Positives for Wales toward the end but overall just 60 mins of gash.

Good luck for the GS

Cheers Griff. not many Welsh fans seem to be saying that, (well done England.)

It was a real nail biter in the end.

I'm pretty sure everyone Welsh fan on the match thread said well done England. And the English fans reciprocated too. You should stop living your life so bitter.

by Cyril Sat 12 Mar 2016, 9:26 pm

brennomac wrote:If a humble neutral (Irish) can intrude on this discussion, England should be concerned that having about 65% of possession and the vast amount of territory they still scored only the one try while a team they had dominated physically for the whole game scored three tries. England will need to be a lot more clinical as they progress.

Like most people thought Itoje was great - Kruis too, Haskell gave away his usual stupid penos, Ben Youngs passing is too slow, Ford was poor, defence for Faletau's try very poor too Also shows that Billy V can be stopped if people tackle him low around the ankles.

No question England deserve to be top of the table but there are still lots of glitches to be sorted out.

I think that's a fair appraisal

Plenty of work still to be done and England really need to kill off games when they're dominant. Wales are a dangerous side when they're (almost) killed off. I think England played the correct tactics kicking their penalties to take the game to 3 scores. Especially as Farrell's boot was on form.

Itoje played the best half of any player in the tournament so far. Lineout steals, turnovers, tidying up and playing a major role in the try, Kruis excellent also. Vunipola was generally subdued by good defence, but he also didn't seem to be used as much as recently in carrying (I'd be interested to see his stats). Haskell had his usual game (mixed, with a steal or two some good carries and the odd sill pen). I thought Robshaw had a good game. Did he make way when Cole got binned?

Scrum was good and bad, but it's so difficult to tell these days. There were times when Wales had the edge. Lineout for England was excellent, both on our ball and stealing theirs. Hartley seems to be growing into the captain role and a bit more relaxed. Cole and Marler were a mixed bag.

Youngs annoys me a lot (often for the similar reasons that Care annoys me). I can't see Jones changing at this stage and Care is maybe still seen as 'impact' (not happening today as the game was moving towards Wales at that stage).

Ford currently seems to need a bit more time than is available at international level (and back at Bath). Youngs pass to him for the charge-down was overly sympathetic though. I can't see Jones changing the 10/12 axis for the final game though, especially as Tuilagi is a way off a start.

Saw very little of Joseph, Nowell was defensively good again and made some good breaks in traffic. Watson good under the high ball and Brown his usual hard-to-take-down self but should have scored the early try if he's backed himself.

Subs didn't make much of an impact this week. Did Daly touch the ball?

England good at the breakdown in general, but players still getting isolated and lacking support. Is this an individual making the wrong decision or the structure not quite providing the back-up?

by Seagultaf Sat 12 Mar 2016, 9:34 pm

glamorganalun wrote:The only time I remember seeing Warburton was going off on the stretcher, Wales subs made a big impact, England's were poor. Webb provided much better service for the backs to operate, Davies had his poorest gave with passes all over the place.

In fairness D Biggar changed the game with his determined charge down before the subs came on. England clearly won the line out battle and the breakdown, there was not a lot in the scrum.

Cuthbertt again was poor giving England go forward, not sure about Amos or Walker but there are handy wings coming through the U20's.

Davies had rubbish ball mostly behind the gain line. When Webb and Priestland came on England had also made lots of changes and Wales forwards were getting over the gain line, that makes the scrum half's game a lot easier.

Biggar did do really well to make and take his try, but generally he had a poor game. He was standing deep and Davies was having to look up before he passed to see where he was. Last season he played a lot flatter and was a far better player for it, he need to get back to that game plan against Italy.

by majesticimperialman Sat 12 Mar 2016, 9:37 pm

True Raven wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:
Griff wrote:Haven't had the time to read the posts but wanted to say well done England. Smashed us good and proper. Thought it would be close but wasn't to be. Sort of was toward the end. But in reality you creamed us. Damn. Positives for Wales toward the end but overall just 60 mins of gash.

Good luck for the GS

Cheers Griff. not many Welsh fans seem to be saying that, (well done England.)

It was a real nail biter in the end.

I'm pretty sure everyone Welsh fan on the match thread said well done England. And the English fans reciprocated too. You should stop living your life so bitter.

I am not bitter at all. I like to give praise where it is due.

Wales really turn up their game in the last 10/15 minutes, and was unlucky not to win.

If that make me sound bitter then so be it.

by lostinwales Sat 12 Mar 2016, 9:37 pm

England subs came on at a time when the game had gone a bit weird. England were so far ahead but increasing out of steam and at the same time Wales actually held onto the ball for once. We controlled the ball so well in the first half Wales hardly saw it and also managed to cough it up most of the time when they did get hold of it. Last 20 minutes Wales ran everything against a tired England and things happened.

Still (annoyingly just like the Ireland game) we made more opportunities to score in the first half which we didn't take. I thought both non try decisions were correct but very close run things. And after we had done so well to defend against the Welsh 5m scrums Dan Biggar's charge down seemed like very cheap points to give away.

Lots of good things for an England fan though. Manu looked OK and his hit on North was very important. Robshaw hopefully made the haters shut up for a while (although I doubt it) and Itoje was just brilliant. Also nice to see Farrell do the zombie stare thing which made you know he wasn't going to miss anything.

by True Raven Sat 12 Mar 2016, 9:37 pm

Vunipola made 45 metres from 18 carries and made 0 passes. He made 11 tackles but got turned over 3 times. As a comparison with faletau as they were compared all week, faletau made 44 metres of 8 carries with 7 passes and one try. He made five tackles but didn't get turned over once.

On ford, I personally don't get the hype around him.and think Farrell is better. Would England fans be happy with Farrell, tuilagi and joseph as 10,12,13?

by **RiscaGame** Sat 12 Mar 2016, 9:41 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:
Griff wrote:Haven't had the time to read the posts but wanted to say well done England. Smashed us good and proper. Thought it would be close but wasn't to be. Sort of was toward the end. But in reality you creamed us. Damn. Positives for Wales toward the end but overall just 60 mins of gash.

Good luck for the GS

Cheers Griff. not many Welsh fans seem to be saying that, (well done England.)

It was a real nail biter in the end.

Where aren't they congratulating England? Seems to me most posts are. Show your examples of not many madge

by True Raven Sat 12 Mar 2016, 9:42 pm

Seagultaf wrote:
glamorganalun wrote:The only time I remember seeing Warburton was going off on the stretcher, Wales subs made a big impact, England's were poor. Webb provided much better service for the backs to operate, Davies had his poorest gave with passes all over the place.

In fairness D Biggar changed the game with his determined charge down before the subs came on. England clearly won the line out battle and the breakdown, there was not a lot in the scrum.

Cuthbertt again was poor giving England go forward, not sure about Amos or Walker but there are handy wings coming through the U20's.

Davies had rubbish ball mostly behind the gain line. When Webb and Priestland came on England had also made lots of changes and Wales forwards were getting over the gain line, that makes the scrum half's game a lot easier.

Biggar did do really well to make and take his try, but generally he had a poor game. He was standing deep and Davies was having to look up before he passed to see where he was. Last season he played a lot flatter and was a far better player for it, he need to get back to that game plan against Italy.

Biggar didn't have a great game at all. However Davies having bad ball is no excuse for poor passing. It was all over the place

by **RiscaGame** Sat 12 Mar 2016, 9:43 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:
True Raven wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:
Griff wrote:Haven't had the time to read the posts but wanted to say well done England. Smashed us good and proper. Thought it would be close but wasn't to be. Sort of was toward the end. But in reality you creamed us. Damn. Positives for Wales toward the end but overall just 60 mins of gash.

Good luck for the GS

Cheers Griff. not many Welsh fans seem to be saying that, (well done England.)

It was a real nail biter in the end.

It's the fact you lied about not many Wales fans congratulating England.

I'm pretty sure everyone Welsh fan on the match thread said well done England. And the English fans reciprocated too. You should stop living your life so bitter.

I am not bitter at all. I like to give praise where it is due.

Wales really turn up their game in the last 10/15 minutes, and was unlucky not to win.

If that make me sound bitter then so be it.

by majesticimperialman Sat 12 Mar 2016, 9:44 pm

Personaly speaking I would rather Tualagi did not have any thing too do with the Engiand team/ squad in this 6ns.

Save him for the summer tour.

by Hammersmith harrier Sat 12 Mar 2016, 9:45 pm

True Raven wrote:Vunipola made 45 metres from 18 carries and made 0 passes. He made 11 tackles but got turned over 3 times. As a comparison with faletau as they were compared all week, faletau made 44 metres of 8 carries with 7 passes and one try. He made five tackles but didn't get turned over once.

On ford, I personally don't get the hype around him.and think Farrell is better. Would England fans be happy with Farrell, tuilagi and joseph as 10,12,13?

I think Ford like Sexton and Biggar has been targeted this year which has seen his game go off the boil a bit, all three were immeasurably better last season. Farrell as a more conservative option is quite a hard man to target and thrives on the physicality so wouldn't be a terrible option.

by lostinwales Sat 12 Mar 2016, 9:46 pm

True Raven wrote:Vunipola made 45 metres from 18 carries and made 0 passes. He made 11 tackles but got turned over 3 times. As a comparison with faletau as they were compared all week, faletau made 44 metres of 8 carries with 7 passes and one try. He made five tackles but didn't get turned over once.

On ford, I personally don't get the hype around him.and think Farrell is better. Would England fans be happy with Farrell, tuilagi and joseph as 10,12,13?

yes

The question is - is it still too early for Tuilagi and it probably is. I don't think we can rely on him for 80 minutes just yet.

Ford did do a great tackle on North early on Smile

I am not an expert but his kicking seemed OK and he made the odd break. Overall it wasn't exactly his best game though

by Cyril Sat 12 Mar 2016, 9:49 pm

With Slade to come back (how did he get on for Exeter today?) and Daly in the squad the 10/12/13 selection is getting very interesting. Jones seems to want Ford to come good (and if/when he does he's special) but I wonder if he'll change it up a bit for the Aus tour.

Agree that the 10s are really getting targeted this 6Ns (both by the coaches and the opposition!).

by TightHEAD Sat 12 Mar 2016, 9:57 pm

Word of caution, just be careful how you use the word targeted!

by Mad for Chelsea Sat 12 Mar 2016, 10:17 pm

Quick question about the Francis incident.

Given that from the original penalty (and Cole's sin-binning) England had brought Brookes on for Robshaw to deal with the resulting scrum that Wales opted for, should England - in light of the penalty reversal - have been allowed to reverse that sub?

Would probably have made no difference given England promptly conceded a scrum from the following line-out, but there's no doubt England badly missed Robshaw in the last ten minutes IMO.

by **RiscaGame** Sat 12 Mar 2016, 10:21 pm

I don't think Francis' card should mean overruling Cole's (if Francis did get one). A card offence shouldn't be rescinded, so Cole still had to go if he did commit an offence as well.

by Mad for Chelsea Sat 12 Mar 2016, 10:25 pm

agree that Cole going was correct, my question was over Wales opting for the scrum from the initial penalty, which forced England to bring on Brookes for Robshaw to have a TH for said scrum. Without that, England would have kept Robshaw on until the next scrum (which admittedly happened pretty much straight away after anyway), as is usually the case when a front-rower is binned...

Basically, sequence was:
a) Wales penalty and Cole yellow card
b) Wales go for scrum
c) England need a TH, so bring on Brookes for Robshaw.

I'm arguing that if between a) and b) you bring in
a') penalty reversed for Francis's offence,
then b) doesn't happen, so no need for c)

by **RiscaGame** Sat 12 Mar 2016, 10:51 pm

By the way, this is Cement Head on Francis

Cement Head wrote: To be honest, my initial reaction was I didn’t think it looked great. I haven’t had a look at it since then.

That says a lot.

by Mad for Chelsea Sat 12 Mar 2016, 10:58 pm

I thought that other than that incident, Joubert had a decent game. Scrums were a mess, and at times he was guessing there, but not exactly helped by pretty much all four props scrummageing illegally at every scrum (or so it seemed at times). He was consistent, particularly harsh on not rolling away but same for both teams, so no issues there. Thought maybe Wales could have been warned at some point for the number of penaltys they were giving away, and England warned earlier just before the Cole YC, but again, consistent.

The Francis one though, I'm sorry to say I think he completely bottled. I honestly thought going by the conversation between him and the AR that they were trying to talk each other out of giving a red card (which it should have been, fairly clearly IMO), and settle for a yellow (which materially would have had the same effect of course for this game). I was quite staggered when they chose to give no card at all. Joubert then basically told Francis to expect a citing at least, so suggests he knew he was bottling it.

But hey, it didn't change the result, and other than that he had a good game, we all make mistakes after all...

by Cyril Sat 12 Mar 2016, 11:05 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:The Francis one though, I'm sorry to say I think he completely bottled. I honestly thought going by the conversation between him and the AR that they were trying to talk each other out of giving a red card (which it should have been, fairly clearly IMO), and settle for a yellow (which materially would have had the same effect of course for this game). I was quite staggered when they chose to give no card at all. Joubert then basically told Francis to expect a citing at least, so suggests he knew he was bottling it.

But hey, it didn't change the result, and other than that he had a good game, we all make mistakes after all...

I'd agree with that. There did seem to be a certain level of buck-passing and not making a big decision.

Otherwise he wasn't too bad and pretty consistent and, at least, fair.

by glamorganalun Sat 12 Mar 2016, 11:12 pm

I looked at the Norrth in touch call, I thought he got it away before going into touch, watching it again he did get it away. This is poor by the line judge, why not play on and if there is a score go back with the video replay, the ball was taken by Webb heading towards try the line.

England deserved the win and good luck to them in the next game.

by Seagultaf Sat 12 Mar 2016, 11:15 pm

Cyril wrote:
Mad for Chelsea wrote:The Francis one though, I'm sorry to say I think he completely bottled. I honestly thought going by the conversation between him and the AR that they were trying to talk each other out of giving a red card (which it should have been, fairly clearly IMO), and settle for a yellow (which materially would have had the same effect of course for this game). I was quite staggered when they chose to give no card at all. Joubert then basically told Francis to expect a citing at least, so suggests he knew he was bottling it.

But hey, it didn't change the result, and other than that he had a good game, we all make mistakes after all...
I'd agree with that. There did seem to be a certain level of buck-passing and not making a big decision.

Otherwise he wasn't too bad and pretty consistent and, at least, fair.

I agree the Francis incident looked really bad and I was very suprised to see him stay on the field. Saying that I thought it was a less serious incident that Browns studs in the Irish players eyes. And apparently that was perfectly OK so I clearly know nothing!

by True Raven Sat 12 Mar 2016, 11:18 pm

Also the decision where foxy got tackled and the ball squirted out to north who had a run in. To me it looked like an England defender knocked it backwards out of foxys grasp. It mirrored the Liam Williams tackle in mike brown where he went to the tmo to see if it was a knock on or not. Why not check both incidents though?

And north from the photos clearly got the ball away before he was out

by Geordie Sat 12 Mar 2016, 11:24 pm

1) England need to improve their efficiency at taking chances as i have said so many times. This game should have been over at half time, as should the Ireland game.

B) Jones wants England tough and brutal like the old,sides....That's fine, but cheap shots, elbows etc is not 'hard' or manly. Learn the difference

C) Wales showed rugby in ten minutes that England can only dream of. That's a lesson of where we need to be. We could have so easily lost that game!!!

D) England DO have some good players and promising young players. Itoje is as good as the hype, but some of the old guys were good..ie Robshaw. Kruis was excellent also despite being in itojes shadow.

E) Mike Brown is class but his greed and head down approach spurns so many opportunities. Nowell and Watson show more promise there and should be trialed there come the summer

F) Ben Youngs frustrates constantly, as does Ford this season. 2 critical positions.

Wales
Why don't you ditch Gatland ball and play like the last ten minutes?
If you did you'd beat the Kiwis. If,you play like,thay in the summer you'll win a game over there.

by Seagultaf Sat 12 Mar 2016, 11:27 pm

True Raven wrote:Also the decision where foxy got tackled and the ball squirted out to north who had a run in. To me it looked like an England defender knocked it backwards out of foxys grasp. It mirrored the Liam Williams tackle in mike brown where he went to the tmo to see if it was a knock on or not. Why not check both incidents though?

And north from the photos clearly got the ball away before he was out

That's what I Thought also. Not sure who caught the ball when North flicked it in field but he looked clean through on the try line. Very big descision!

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