Frank Bruno's Chin

Having a debate with a mate of mine about Frank Bruno's chin. He says he had a good chin but just had poor instincts to getting hit and just stood there to take more. I'm saying he had a weak chin as KOd 5 times and never really took shots too well.

Wondered what all your thoughts were?

for me im more towards your mates opinion. didn't deal well with getting hit and froze. very rare did he get put out cold. his defeats were more often than not TKO's. which in the heavyweight division shows he could take a shot

Go to 25 mins.  Tenth and final round of a fight between Bruno and Smith.  Apparently Bruno had more or less won every round.  This was the first time Bruno had got to the final round: before that he had been knocking out his opponents.  The commentator described Bruno as having zero lateral movement but he held a high guard defence, but he was getting tired and letting his guard down towards the latter rounds.  He got tagged in the tenth and just didn't know what to do next, he didn't have the skill set to avoid further punishment and just stood there.  He should have taken a knee to the canvas to get a count started to give himself time, or he should have grabbed and held smith.  But he just froze in indecision, and offered a load of free hits to his chin.  I agree with those that say he could take a shot, but he lacked decisiveness and the boxing skills to know what to do when he was tagged very hard.  James Smith next fight was against legendary Larry Holmes and he lasted 12 rounds before getting tagged in the final round.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDG9d47NlBo

Maybe the reason he let people unload was because he had a poor chin and lost his senses after the first punch?

Also the fact all his loses were KOs leads to me to think he didn't have a good chin. In general most chinny fighters majority of losses are KO and better chin fighters lose mostly on points. Appreciate there probably are some exemptions.

Found this.  In an earlier fight by a giant of a man called Floyd Cummings, Bruno was knocked out on his feet at the end of the first round.  He was able to somehow recover for the second round which he managed to survive a barrage of shots from Cummings.  He then fully recovered by the end of the second round and eventually knocked out Cummings in the seventh.  This demonstrates he could recover from a "knockout" blow to the head:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWbyvZZAYGA&nohtml5=False

Fair enough he recovered well but 10 more seconds and he was knocked out.

anyone with a weak chin wouldn't have taken half of those shots from the cummings fight. they'd be flat out on their back

Anyone with a good chin wouldn't have been put in La La Land that in the first place.

Just one more thing to add, Frank Bruno took on an undefeated 22 year old Mike Tyson and lasted five rounds. In the fifth round Bruno survived some of the most devastating shots from Tyson, uppercuts and hits to the chin. Eventually he was pinned to the ropes taking a succession of head shots from Tyson and the referee stepped in to stop it. But Bruno was still on his feet, just dazed and defeated.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXXgY4qsZYI&nohtml5=False

Down in the 1st as well though.

melv500 wrote:Down in the 1st as well though.

Which proves he can take a shot.

Lolz spaghetti legs and down isn't proving you can take a shot. Amir Khan on that basis can take a shot.

melv500 wrote:Anyone with a good chin wouldn't have been put in La La Land that in the first place.

its the heavyweight division, anyone landing a clean shot will put you in trouble. supposed ali had a weak chin because henry cooper and frasier but him on his back side?

melv500 wrote:Lolz spaghetti legs and down isn't proving you can take a shot. Amir Khan on that basis can take a shot.

I reckon you and your mate are going to continue to disagree, but so far two 606v2 commentators out of two agree with your mate.

Ali wasn't KOd 5 times though.

Nore fair enough. I don't think he had a great chin but as I said to my mate it's a decent argument to disagree.

melv500 wrote:Ali wasn't KOd 5 times though.

mike tyson has, was he chinny as well

3 maybe 4 of those he was way past his prime and easier to hit. One only of Bruno's he past his best. And that's debatable as coming off a career best win. Not the same.

evander holyfield got easier to hit, oliver mcall also. larry holmes fought well past his best as well. didn't effect their chins

yes and both famous for having amazing chins which were both better than Tysons. Your point is exactly???

Off to play golf so I'll respond later.

melv500 wrote:yes and both famous for having amazing chins which were both better than Tysons. Your point is exactly???

Off to play golf so I'll respond later.

you said bruno was chinny because he had 5 ko loses (only one if were honest, the rest were TKO) but tyson (who has the same amount) you are quite willing to right off his purely down to him not being at his best, yet if you have a good chin, like my examples who all fought well past their. it didn't effect them

A weak chin in the heavyweight division usually means you're over from the first punch, one thing Bruno proved is that he could take punishment. He suffered more from pure instincts rather than a poor chin, once he got tagged he just didn't know how to react. 

A weak chin for me is someone who goes over at the first punch, not someone who will take punishment rather than tying up simply because they don't know how too.

Heavyweight boxing is especially dangerous.  A normal person receiving one of their blows would be knocked out, brain damaged, dead. Their arms can be twice the size of a normal mans legs.

Nore Staat wrote:Heavyweight boxing is especially dangerous.  A normal person receiving one of their blows would be knocked out, brain damaged, dead.  Their arms can be twice the size of a normal mans legs.

Yes, a man of normal height, normal weight but with skinny legs.

I think its fair to say the OP is a troll/wum with a bit of spare time.

Bruno was around in a decent era and a lot of his limitations weren't his fault.....

The only time he fought anyone decent was for a world title......

You could say Smith turned out half decent but he lost to Tubbs and Witherspoon comfortably before being taken to England.....

Bruno never had the chance to learn....

As for his chin he could take a shot but he was so manufactured he never learned how to survive.

Saying that.. Bruno would be undisputed now......He'd kill Fury.

Compelling - Tyson didn't have one of the best chins in heavyweight history like McCall and Holyfield. It's fair to say most fighters chins deteriorate as they age, history shows us this. If you have one of the best chins in the business then as you age even if it weakens then it's still strong.

Back to Bruno I'll sign off with this as not much more i can say on the subject to be honest. I don't buy his instincts when getting punched were poor. it's because he was buzzed and lost his senses showing a weaker chin. Also 4 (prob) ko losses all in his prime does indicate a weak chin also.

Having said that good points made to disagree with me and I think my mate will be happy most agreed with him on this.

Ba

George Chuvalo has two stoppage losses on his record so I suppose he had a weak chin.

You said it.

Melv500 why even bother asking a question when your mind is clearly made up. You're wrong by the way (for what it's worth). This is heavyweight boxing you're talking about, big big men. They've all got KO power. Bruno showed good powers of recovery on many occasions. Not chinny in the slightest.

Because I haven't been convinced I am wrong. I am truly sorry for not agreeing and having a different opinion.

Ha. Nothing was ever going to convince you that you were wrong then. What would need to be contained within what you would consider a suitable answer? Because not much more can be said.

Not saying you cant have a different opinion but Im still not sure why you put something up for discussion if you can't be moved from your opinion not matter what is said.

To be honest im not sure how you've arrived at your conclusion in the first place. In a nut shell you are basically saying anybody in boxing who can't walk through shots is chinny.

If a heavyweight that could take punishment constitutes chinny in your view then we may as well not have bithered replying to this thread at all.

If you want to see chinny what a rerun of AJ vs Martin from Saturday. Got clipped and hit the deck, thats chinny.

If you read above I give my reasons so I wont go over again. Also you are saying just because heavyweights hit hard means his chin isn't bad.

I don't agree he could take punishment either. How many crisis did he come through without being KOd in the fight? A good link above for the Cummings fight but he was saved by the bell. I would genuinely be keen to hear some examples as I am sure I missed some?

Also for the record this isn't an anti-Bruno opinion, in fact he was one of my hero's when i was a kid I just don't think he had a great chin.

As for Martin I could use your augment back against you. Heavyweights hits hard and Joshua hits harder than anyone. He showed a good chin to get back up etc etc......

I watched the Jumbo Cummings fight back in the day and the slob had Bruno on Queer Street, he had to be helped back to his corner by the ref. The Smith fight showed Bruno had no survival instincts and when tagged on the point of the chin, his hands dropped and he was a sitting duck and Smith just whaled away until Frank hit the deck. He lacked the nous to survive when he fought Witherspoon and was on his way to winning that fight too when he got caught. He came back from that and all he'd learned was to grab and hit round the back of the head which is what McCall accused him of in the build-up to their title fight. When Lewis tagged him, the hands dropped again and he was a static target. The fact it generally took a barrage of punches to end the contest after the brain shut down doesn't get away from the fact that Bruno didn't have a great chin. He didn't have a glass jaw but he didn't have a great chin.

He showed a good chin to get back up? He sat on the seat of his pants laughing immediately after the second knock down. He chose not to fight on so I disagree there. If you watch the fight he didnt look genuinely hurt by wither knock down, and lets be frank they were nowhere near Joshuas knockout shots. He just didnt fancy it after feeling a bit of Joshuas power simple as that.

And I think you're confusing not having a good chin here with something else.

How many times did Bruno get sparked out in one shot? That would constitute not having a good chin. Getting hit by big shots and losing your senses is different.

In my opinion your argument doesnt make sense and you clearly wont be moved so I'll leave it here.

Mike Tyson had a very good chin. Sure he got stopped. But he took big beatings before he went down.

Bruno had a decent chin. He took solid shots from big punchers. He just had that rabbit in the headlights look, when someone really nailed him.

Ok agree to disagree.

I should have said my Martin example wasn't my opinion, just trying to make a point. In fact I completely agree with you. It was his heart that was the problem not his chin. Felt the power and didn't fancy it.

melv500 wrote:Ok agree to disagree.

I should have said my Martin example wasn't my opinion, just trying to make a point. In fact I completely agree with you. It was his heart that was the problem not his chin. Felt the power and didn't fancy it.

Disagree, his eyes rolled back in his head after the second KD and I think the ref did him a huge favour by stopping it as neither the first or second shots landed flush and, given his scrambled senses (and the Blackwell fight being fresh in the mind), if AJ detonated cleanly, they'd still be trying to scrub the stains out of the canvas today.

He seemed to be listening to the count clear enough and seemed he timed to look like he was going to get up. Ref definitely saved him but I think he could have got up and continued.

melv500 wrote:He seemed to be listening to the count clear enough and seemed he timed to look like he was going to get up. Ref definitely saved him but I think he could have got up and continued.

Scrambled senses...looking the ref and understanding what's going on after just being flattened are two different things

I do realise that thanks.

Seemed to me like he was listening for the count and purposely got up at 9 thinking the ref would let him carry on.

Dave, do you genuinely think Martin couldn't continue? I dont know how you've arrived at that conclusion?

Yes he made the smart move in letting the ref count him out whilst pretending to be gathering himself up. But genuinely hurt he wasn't. No doubt he could have gotten hurt had he continued so I can't blame him for packing it in. He wasn't a genuine champ and he was paid a packet so why go more than two rounds when you're already a millionaire?

melv500 wrote:I do realise that thanks.

Yet despite that you've continued to press ahead with the "he didn't fancy it" theory.

Martin said himself he didn't see the punches coming, the first grazed him and still dropped him, the second still didn't land flush and rolled his eyes back, the third one, had it landed is the one that could have hurt him badly. Credit the ref for not giving him the benefit of the doubt and saving him from harm. He was clearly in no position to continue.

Of course maybe you're just the type of sadist who likes fighters to be carried from the ring

That's a pretty disgusting suggestion to make. If you disagree with me that's fine but to make such horrid accusations without any evidence what so ever to back it up is completely out of line. A pretty pathetic way to put your flawed opinion across.

melv500 wrote:That's a pretty disgusting suggestion to make. If you disagree with me that's fine but to make such horrid accusations without any evidence what so ever to back it up is completely out of line. A pretty pathetic way to put your flawed opinion across.

You've basically called Martin a bottle job so you clearly like your men to be men and your fighters to be fighters which tends to indicate that you feel he should have got up carried on and had the f*ck kicked out of him for your viewing pleasure. There's the "evidence" to back up my opinion...horrid or not, you've called a fighter a bottle job when he's agreed to get in the ring with a bloke who clearly has destructive punching power but, hey, feel free to have a go at me for pointing out what kind of person you are.

Where has he said 'bottle job' Dave?

You're being unnecessarily aggressive and I disagree to be honest. You'd think he'd been absolutely pancaked by he way you're going on. I agree with Melv, he felt the power and wanted no more.

Exactly as EX said. Did I critisise him? I just said he didn't fancy it after feeling the power that's all. Suddenly I'm some kind of sadomasachist willing him to have his head caved. Geeez you jump the gun a but don't you David lol.

by melv500 Today at 10:30 am

.



Ok agree to disagree.

I should have said my Martin example wasn't my opinion, just trying to make a point. In fact I completely agree with you. It was his heart that was the problem not his chin. Felt the power and didn't fancy it.

You've basically called him a quitter/bottle job. At best, you've no little/no idea about the effects of being hit that hard and how the senses can be scrambled and a person's judgment be affected as a consequence. Good thing you're not a referee as your decision making would make Ian John Lewis look competent

Go away with you Dave. He can't 'basically' say anything.  He either said the mans a bottle job or he didn't.

Martin didn't have the heart/will/skill to get up off the canvass and carry on. So what. Nobody called him a bottle job.

If we're being frank then you're talking out of your rear end in all honesty. You're talking as if Martin was all over the place. Did you even watch it?

P.S before you even start telling me i've no idea what being hit is like I'll let you know I'm graded in Muay Thai and I've fought on a UWCB event. Not bigging myself up either before you go down that road, but sick of people who dont know the other person telling them what they do and do not know.