French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

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French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by barrystar on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 12:15 pm

First topic message reminder :

Finishing of the Men's and Women's QFs....

http://www.rolandgarros.com/en_FR/scores/schedule/index.html


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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 2:28 pm

Good performance from Djokovic, but a bit of a wet blanket effort from Berdych it must be said.

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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by Henman Bill on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 2:28 pm

As much as I'm enjoying this match, I do think Thiem lacks the consistency to trouble Novak, and Goffin lacks the power, so perhaps they are just playing for the prize money, ranking points, prestige, and opportunity to lose gracefully in the next round.

I hope I'm wrong. I don't want Djokovic to lose necessarily, but hopefully a tighter match with more intrigue.

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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by Henman Bill on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 2:29 pm

OK seriously, everyone that can, put this match on. Thiem just broke back with a lovely winner. Now 4-4 in the third. Definately worth a look.

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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 2:33 pm

I'm watching, it's pretty good TBH. Both playing some very nice stuff. Think Goffin's biggest weakness continues to be the serve, he just doesn't do enough with it. Thiem's kick serve to the BH on the ad side is a monster! Think Thiem would have more chance of beating Djokovic on this evidence, simply because he can take the game out of Djokovic's hands to an extent.

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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 2:35 pm

I really do think Thiem just has that bit more power in his game than Goffin. Always felt Thiem would win this and he takes the third set to lead 2-1.
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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by Henman Bill on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 2:38 pm

There's the problem for Goffin. Beautiful player to watch but when someone is streaking hot against him, what can he do? A bit like Gasquet in that regard. I suspect that Goffin in the next few years will be a similar story in the slams with few R1 and R2 exits, his ranking probably in the region of #6-#15, and a lot of QF and R4 exits, and no slam titles.

Still, maybe that's not a bad thing, if so. Plenty of players out there dreaming just to have one chance to play once in the first round of a slam, even if they lose...

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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by Henman Bill on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 2:40 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:I really do think Thiem just has that bit more power in his game than Goffin. Always felt Thiem would win this and he takes the third set to lead 2-1.

For the first 2 and a half sets Goffin seemed to me the slightly better player. More solid and professional. I thought he would win set 3 and the match.

Became marginnally more passive there perhaps, and Thiem's level went up in the second half of set 3, let's see if he can keep it up though.

Good opening service game. He dropped the opener of set 3 after winning the TB, so good effort there with concentration levels.

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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by barrystar on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 2:41 pm

Henman Bill wrote:There's the problem for Goffin. Beautiful player to watch but when someone is streaking hot against him, what can he do? A bit like Gasquet in that regard. I suspect that Goffin in the next few years will be a similar story in the slams with few R1 and R2 exits, his ranking probably in the region of #6-#15, and a lot of QF and R4 exits, and no slam titles.

Still, maybe that's not a bad thing, if so. Plenty of players out there dreaming just to have one chance to play once in the first round of a slam, even if they lose...

To me Goffin is a bit of a poor man's Henman - another beautiful player who could be out-muscled or beaten by dogged consistency.
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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 2:42 pm

Henman Bill wrote:There's the problem for Goffin. Beautiful player to watch but when someone is streaking hot against him, what can he do? A bit like Gasquet in that regard. I suspect that Goffin in the next few years will be a similar story in the slams with few R1 and R2 exits, his ranking probably in the region of #6-#15, and a lot of QF and R4 exits, and no slam titles.

Still, maybe that's not a bad thing, if so. Plenty of players out there dreaming just to have one chance to play once in the first round of a slam, even if they lose...

Good shout.

Thiem just has the wider array of shots and seems mentally stronger when it matters. Thiem I can see winning slams in the next five years - Goffin I am much less confident about.
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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by Henman Bill on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 2:49 pm

This would be a big win for Thiem. Perhaps even the biggest of his career. Depends what you value higher: a win against a big player (which he already has), a tournament win at 250/500 level (already has a few), or a slam semi final.

Looking at their records, it seems this is a first quarter final in a slam for both of them, so a very big match for both. Thiem has never been in a semi final at masters level either, so quite a step up for him here if he were to go on and close this one out.




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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by Henman Bill on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 2:53 pm

Meh what a disappointing game for Goffin.

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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by Henman Bill on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 2:56 pm

Let's see Thiem was 3-4 down in set 3, and before that I think 2-4, so would that be 9 games in a row??

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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by Henman Bill on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 2:57 pm

If Thiem can play like those last 9 games against Djokovic it would be a good match. Let's hope he can.

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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by Henman Bill on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 3:00 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Think Goffin's biggest weakness continues to be the serve, he just doesn't do enough with it.

You know since you said that, he has been missing a lot of serves, quite a few double faults. He's trying to go for more perhaps, and not able to make it work.

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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by Henman Bill on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 3:01 pm

Hm. That's at least the third smash he's missed. Perhaps a weakness there.

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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 3:04 pm

Thiem with an ultimately fairly comfortable 4 set win, so hopefully will still have some left in the tank for a Djokovic semi. Been an excellent tournament for him, and he'll break into the world top ten after it I think.

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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by Henman Bill on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 3:08 pm

Wow, have to say at 4-4 in the third I never though it would be over half an hour later! Really Thiem upping his level there, and Goffin dipping at the same time, with rather devastating consequences for the Belgian.

Ends up being a dominant victory for Thiem, but it was actually a very close match. The second set-break went 9-7 to Thiem, and could easily have gone the other way, and then it's a different match. Likewise breaking at 4-3 in the 3rd. Otherwise Goffiin was serving out the set at 5-3.

Thiem winners 49, unforced errors 46. That's very good and I think if we saw that stat by set it must have improved quite a bit as the match went on.

Goffin winner 31 unforced errors 32, also pretty good for clay.

Thiem BPs 8 from 17, Goffin 6 from 13. That's pretty much identical %, Thiem just created a few more chances.

First serve % 64% for Thiem vs 55% for Goffin. Of the major stats, that was one of the bigger differences.

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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 3:12 pm

On the serve, Thiem has the advantage that he can go for that three-quarter big kick serve on the ad side even on first serves, which he did a few times that I saw. That would certainly help with the first serve percentage, as it's one he would probably make 8-9 times out of ten. But as I said, I feel Goffin's serve is his biggest weakness. His relative lack of power on groundies he makes up for (to a degree) with his superb timing by taking the ball earlier, but there's no such thing he can do with the serve of course. It was certainly evident when he lost to Murray in Rome 6-1 7-5, I think he only held serve three times all match in that one.

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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by sirfredperry on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 3:17 pm

Thiem at 22 must be the youngest GS semi-finalist for some time (Murray, Djoko?). Wonder if any of the statto boys can come up with the answer to this one?
Hope he can give Djoko a good match. Very much doubt it was the semi Djoko was expecting.

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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 3:21 pm

Probably Del Potro RG 09.

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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by Henman Bill on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 3:22 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote: Been an excellent tournament for him, and he'll break into the world top ten after it I think.

Also this is the stage of the season when the race points start (for all except out and out clay courters - a dying breed?) start to signpost the end of year rankings. And we can see there that is further upward trajectory there.

He is already at #6 and these last couple of wins move him into #5 position, or at least it would if rankings were updated at the end of every day.

However, if Stan can go a round further than Thiem, he is going to surge up from below and overtake him so he could be back to #6.

Already he is going to be 1,000 points clear of the person in 9th place, so taking a solid position in the race for qualification for London. Just by continuing the same form as the early part of the season (or even dipping slightly), say winning one more 250 or at least making a final, making R4 and QF at several of the remaining slams at masters, could be enough to see him debut at the WTF this year.

Berdych, Ferrer, Federer and Tsonga, currently ranked 12-15, are amongst the players who are struggling to make it this year. Perhaps Thiem in place of one of those might be a nice change. It's a bit stale in recent years with who qualifies, typically there are 5-6 players who have played at the event multiple times before, and only perhaps one new entrant on average each year.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/es/rankings/singles-race-to-london
http://live-tennis.eu/race

EDIT: To add Berdych is at 12 in the race before the tournament, looks like he's 10 in the live race and should be 10 in the race rankings for next week.


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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by Guest on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 3:23 pm

Dominic Thiem has the magical 6`1" stature and seems to have progressed steadily and surely up the rankings with now 6 ATP titles: five 250 and one 500. Aged 22 1/2. He is described as an aggressive baseliner. He seems like the real deal.

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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by ALPanorak on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 3:26 pm

Great to see another breakthrough for Thiem - I'd not write him off completely against Djokovic considering his clay court pedigree and the fact he'll be playing full of confidence with nothing to lose. You can see how much more belief he's playing with in 2016 compared to previous years - the hardwork in the offseason has paid off

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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by Henman Bill on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 3:32 pm

I'm feeling more upbeat about the tournament now than I was after Rafa's withdrawal which threatened to leave the tournament a bit damp squibby.

Admittedly Djokovic has "cakewalk" draw to the semi final/final, but at least it will be a challenging final for him most likely (if he gets there).

Apart from Rafa, this is as strong a semi final line up as you could wish for now. Murray-Stan looks particularly intriguing of the two.

A shame we didn't get to see Rafa-Thiem though.

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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 3:34 pm

Anyway, since socal's on the naughty step we might be able to discuss WTA without the usual sexism? Serena not having it all her own way out on Centre, against Putintseva, it's 5-4 on serve in the opening set. The other match also under way on Lenglen, early days so far there, it's 1-1 between Bertens and Bacsinszky.

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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 3:43 pm

Putintseva playing a very canny game: lots of changes of pace, angles, mixing up with the slice, the odd "moonball" thrown in, and it's working as she breaks to lead Williams 6-5 and will serve for the set. Really intriguing match so far...

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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 3:46 pm

and Putintseva holds to love to take the first set, before haranguing the crowd for more support. She's loving it out there, and fully deserved that opening set, lovely stuff clap clap

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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 3:49 pm

and now Putintseva breaks to love at the start of the second set. Williams, for once, looking bereft of ideas. Could the big upset be on?

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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by temporary21 on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 3:52 pm

I'll give it ten minutes. This was basically every serena
Match last year

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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by Guest on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 4:00 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:and now Putintseva breaks to love at the start of the second set. Williams, for once, looking bereft of ideas. Could the big upset be on?
Listened to the first game and a half. Commentators I think said Putintseva was one of four qualifiers making it to the womens quarter finals. They said Putintseva was around 21 but had the stature of a junior / girl. They said they hoped Putintseva wasn't blown away by the power of Serena because Putintseva had had a tremendous run at Roland Garros and a 6-0 6-1 odd thrashing might make her feel sad despite her excellent run. Serena held her first service game. Then after Putintseva lost her first or second point on her own service game the commentators were saying Putintseva was the type of player Serena likes demolishing because of her apparent lack of power. Surprised to here then that Putintseva took the first set! ...

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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 4:04 pm

Williams edges a break up in the second set. I'd still sooner have my money on Serena.
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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 4:09 pm

Williams with a clear change of tactics, using the odd "moonball" herself, plenty of dropshots, and coming into the net more often, basically moving away from her pure power game, and it's working as she wins four games in a row to go 4-1 up. Really fascinating tactical battle this one, can Putintseva respond to the change of tactics?

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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 4:11 pm

problem for Putintseva is her serve, it's basically sitting up and screaming "hit me" at the moment...

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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 4:12 pm

That's a good hold though, polished off with a lovely wrong-footing FH. Stops the rot somewhat 4-2 to Williams.

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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by Born Slippy on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 4:15 pm

sirfredperry wrote:Thiem at 22 must be the youngest GS semi-finalist for some time (Murray, Djoko?). Wonder if any of the statto boys can come up with the answer to this one?
  Hope he can give Djoko a good match. Very much doubt it was the semi Djoko was expecting.

Janowicz (remember him?) was slightly younger at Wimbledon 2013.

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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 4:18 pm

Well well well. Williams double faults to hand the break back Puntintseva right back in this set.
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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by Guest on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 4:21 pm

Born Slippy wrote:
sirfredperry wrote:Thiem at 22 must be the youngest GS semi-finalist for some time (Murray, Djoko?). Wonder if any of the statto boys can come up with the answer to this one?
  Hope he can give Djoko a good match. Very much doubt it was the semi Djoko was expecting.

Janowicz (remember him?) was slightly younger at Wimbledon 2013.
Jerzy Janowicz wrong stature 6' 8".  Zero ATP titles.  Big server.  Got him to one Wimbledon Semi-Final - then relative obscurity - but seems to be due to a succession of injuries (foot then knee). 

Thiem has 6 ATP titles, 3 last year, 3 this year already including an ATP500.  Thiem is building a credible foundation.


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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by barrystar on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 4:21 pm

@temporary21 @mfc - both of you seem to be bang on the money with your observations there.  Serena still the best in the world, but nothing like as dominant in past years, the margin between her and the rest is narrowing.


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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by bogbrush on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 4:26 pm

Williams has had it against some of these younger girls, they can run her into the ground.
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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by bogbrush on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 4:26 pm

Resorting to moonballing.
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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by temporary21 on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 4:28 pm

The strangest thing is game wise the gap hasnt changed much in 5 years... Serena just seems to be getting Raggidier. It's nice to see this young player get recognition but serena will open the taps start giving it the old come ons and pull away most likely


Oh hang on... Break points...

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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by bogbrush on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 4:30 pm

Her problem these days is that she knows she has a problem if they stay with her. That's why she's doing anything to shorten the points, she knows she'll be gasping otherwise.
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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by temporary21 on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 4:42 pm

And there it is

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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by Guest on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 4:56 pm

With regard the weather:

France is to declare a state of natural disaster in areas worst hit by flooding in recent days, President Francois Hollande says. ... severest floods in decades. In Paris the Seine continues to rise, prompting the closure of a metro line running through the city centre. Heavy rains across Europe have left at least 10 people dead, most of them in Germany. More downpours are forecast right through the weekend across a band of central Europe from France to Ukraine, with as much as 50mm (2in) of rain falling in some parts in just a few hours.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36432429

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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by bogbrush on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 5:02 pm

Nore Staat wrote:With regard the weather:

France is to declare a state of natural disaster in areas worst hit by flooding in recent days, President Francois Hollande says. ... severest floods in decades.  In Paris the Seine continues to rise, prompting the closure of a metro line running through the city centre.  Heavy rains across Europe have left at least 10 people dead, most of them in Germany. More downpours are forecast right through the weekend across a band of central Europe from France to Ukraine, with as much as 50mm (2in) of rain falling in some parts in just a few hours.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36432429
He's hoping it puts out the fires they're lighting all over the country in response to giving employers a chance to manage their businesses.

And people think we should keep on tying ourselves to these failing states.
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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by barrystar on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 5:12 pm

bogbrush wrote:
Nore Staat wrote:With regard the weather:

France is to declare a state of natural disaster in areas worst hit by flooding in recent days, President Francois Hollande says. ... severest floods in decades.  In Paris the Seine continues to rise, prompting the closure of a metro line running through the city centre.  Heavy rains across Europe have left at least 10 people dead, most of them in Germany. More downpours are forecast right through the weekend across a band of central Europe from France to Ukraine, with as much as 50mm (2in) of rain falling in some parts in just a few hours.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36432429
He's hoping it puts out the fires they're lighting all over the country in response to giving employers a chance to manage their businesses.

And people think we should keep on tying ourselves to these failing states.

Yes, people do, and I am one of them, and the insinuation that those who share my views are uninformed idiots does your cause no good (just as similar attitudes by Remainer's have the same off-putting effect)
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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by sirfredperry on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 5:29 pm

B'Slippy. Jerzy Janowicz . Yes, forgot about him, as, unhappily, has most of the rest of the tennis world.
Tremendous effort by Putintseva who may well have beaten anyone else. As soon as Serena cut out the UEs it was a different match, especially as the Kazakh girl couldn't buy a first serve in the last set. Nice to see a little court craft from a player rather than the mindless ball bashing you sometimes get.

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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by bogbrush on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 5:35 pm

barrystar wrote:
bogbrush wrote:
Nore Staat wrote:With regard the weather:

France is to declare a state of natural disaster in areas worst hit by flooding in recent days, President Francois Hollande says. ... severest floods in decades.  In Paris the Seine continues to rise, prompting the closure of a metro line running through the city centre.  Heavy rains across Europe have left at least 10 people dead, most of them in Germany. More downpours are forecast right through the weekend across a band of central Europe from France to Ukraine, with as much as 50mm (2in) of rain falling in some parts in just a few hours.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36432429
He's hoping it puts out the fires they're lighting all over the country in response to giving employers a chance to manage their businesses.

And people think we should keep on tying ourselves to these failing states.

Yes, people do, and I am one of them, and the insinuation that those who share my views are uninformed idiots does your cause no good (just as similar attitudes by Remainer's have the same off-putting effect)
Hey, I never implied such. You seem a touch sensitive to the suggestion.

I don't favour tying to a failing state but it's a choice you can make.
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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by barrystar on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 5:47 pm

bogbrush wrote:
barrystar wrote:
bogbrush wrote:
Nore Staat wrote:With regard the weather:

France is to declare a state of natural disaster in areas worst hit by flooding in recent days, President Francois Hollande says. ... severest floods in decades.  In Paris the Seine continues to rise, prompting the closure of a metro line running through the city centre.  Heavy rains across Europe have left at least 10 people dead, most of them in Germany. More downpours are forecast right through the weekend across a band of central Europe from France to Ukraine, with as much as 50mm (2in) of rain falling in some parts in just a few hours.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36432429
He's hoping it puts out the fires they're lighting all over the country in response to giving employers a chance to manage their businesses.

And people think we should keep on tying ourselves to these failing states.

Yes, people do, and I am one of them, and the insinuation that those who share my views are uninformed idiots does your cause no good (just as similar attitudes by Remainer's have the same off-putting effect)
Hey, I never implied such. You seem a touch sensitive to the suggestion.

I don't favour tying to a failing state but it's a choice you can make.

when I describe something undesirable and follow up with words to the effect, 'and people still want that', I am not complimenting their Judgment, nor am I inviting them to a nuanced discussion with give and take involving the offer that I am open to changing my mind if they come up with something I haven't thought of. I am using a well-known rhetorical device to suggest that they are being pretty daft despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Having seen your posts for several years, I think that's what you were doing too.
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barrystar

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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

Post by bogbrush on Thu 02 Jun 2016, 5:58 pm

No, I'm not complimenting anyone on that opinion and neither am I inviting them to a nuanced discussion, and I am not open to changing my mind because I've thought this through for many years. I'm not in the business of persuading anyone, their opinions are their own and not important to me.

But I didn't call you daft, that was in your own mind.

I was actually just laughing at the wreck that is France, the rotting hulk that is Europe, and reflecting that many people still seem to think there's something in it to want to be part of.
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Re: French Open Day 12, Thiem to watch the Berdy

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