"Pro12 = A cesspool with the stench of mediocrity'

Page 2 of 2 Previous  1, 2

View previous topic View next topic Go down

"Pro12 = A cesspool with the stench of mediocrity'

Post by Dai Llewod on Fri 29 Jul 2016, 11:38 am

First topic message reminder :

Ouch. The anti Pro12 bandwagon seems to be rolling.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/a-cesspool-stench-mediocrity-guinness-11679522

One of Ireland’s best known rugby pundits has launched a blistering attack on the Guinness Pro12, calling for his country’s four provinces to quit the cross-border competition.

Veteran TV broadcaster George Hook has condemned the league as “a dead horse”, claiming no-one cares about it, and he insists the Irish teams must find a way “out of the cesspool”.

Hook says Leinster, Munster, Ulster and Connacht cannot compete financially with the top English and French clubs because of the disparity in TV revenue generated by the respective European leagues.

The broadcast deal for coverage of the top two flights of French domestic rugby brings in £75m a year, while the Aviva Premiership teams receive around £42m per annum through their contract with BT.

In contrast, the total TV revenue from the Pro12’s various agreements with Sky, BBC, S4C and TG4 amounts to around £11.6m.

Hook says Irish professional rugby is in danger of fizzling out into the abyss and he insists a move away from the Pro12 - either by joining the English sides or setting up a new all-Ireland club league - is “the only viable solution”.

“The Celtic League is a dead horse no matter what way you look at it,” he said in his Irish Independent column.

“The competition is repeatedly whipped and cajoled by Sky Sports in an admirable attempt to make it into something it is not, but the declining attendance figures and sub-standard performances by the teams involved expose the grim reality of life in the Pro12.

“The Irish provinces need to find a way out of the cesspool. The future of the professional game in this country depends on having a competitive, financially stable league to play in.

“The truth is that nobody cares a jot for the Celtic league; not the players, not the television executives and certainly not the fans.”

He continues: “The time for pleasantries is over.

“The Italian club experiment has utterly failed. Treviso and Zebre continue to prop up the table, as they have done almost every season since their inception.

“The best players in Wales are playing their club rugby in France or England and one half of Scotland’s professional set-up looks more like a South African third-string club side than a fair reflection of home grown Scottish talent.

“If the current mess is left to fester, revenues for the provinces will continue to decline and interest in the league will drop off to base-line level, if it isn’t at that stage already.

“A move away from Celtic league is the only viable solution. Whether that means banging the door down on our neighbours, to join up with the Aviva Premiership, or, much more radically, disbanding the provinces in favour of a new professional All-Ireland club league, time will tell.

“But if nothing is done to arrest the slide, it won’t be long before the professional game in this country dies off altogether.”

Hook points to the Champions Cup to illustrate the scale of the problem, with no Pro12 team having reached the quarter-finals of last season’s event.

He says past Irish glories in Europe have now been replaced by an “all-consuming stench of mediocrity”.

“There is a major problem brewing in Irish professional rugby that cannot resolve itself if the status quo remains intact,” he said.

“Last week’s announcement by Aviva Premiership of a new deal to televise matches with NBC Sports Group in America, in addition to its lucrative agreement with BT, is the latest progressive step for a league that continues to outclass the Pro12 in terms of resources, talent and financial muscle.


Not sure when the Hook article was published but that's a stinging inditement.

Dai Llewod

Posts : 218
Join date : 2016-06-03

Back to top Go down


Re: "Pro12 = A cesspool with the stench of mediocrity'

Post by funnyExiledScot on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 12:41 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
Griff wrote:Doesn't this sort of talk from the Irish media paint the league in a bad light, devalue the league and put off potential sponsors and investors?  For shame Ireland!  "Get your house in order" Shocked  

Well it was published 3-4 months ago and had sunk without trace or subsequent commentary.

Then Wales Online decided to write about the article and try to portray it as something new and recent.  

Crappy journalism standards frankly, Griff.  Welsh media reheating it three months later doesn't look good.  

Not to worry. The new season will be upon us soon, and they can revert back to bashing Warren Gatland and pretending that with a different coach Wales would blow away the rest the rugby world with attacking rugby hitherto unsurpassed.

funnyExiledScot

Posts : 14476
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 35
Location : Edinburgh

Back to top Go down

Re: "Pro12 = A cesspool with the stench of mediocrity'

Post by Cyril on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 1:15 pm

Nick Cain agrees with Hook in the latest issue of The Rugby Paper. His language is a little more measured though!

Cyril

Posts : 5045
Join date : 2012-11-16

Back to top Go down

Re: "Pro12 = A cesspool with the stench of mediocrity'

Post by Griff on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 1:48 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
Griff wrote:Doesn't this sort of talk from the Irish media paint the league in a bad light, devalue the league and put off potential sponsors and investors?  For shame Ireland!  "Get your house in order" Shocked  

Well it was published 3-4 months ago and had sunk without trace or subsequent commentary.

Then Wales Online decided to write about the article and try to portray it as something new and recent.  

Crappy journalism standards frankly, Griff.  Welsh media reheating it three months later doesn't look good.  

Not to worry. The new season will be upon us soon, and they can revert back to bashing Warren Gatland and pretending that with a different coach Wales would blow away the rest the rugby world with attacking rugby hitherto unsurpassed.

Love how you guys twist this to Welsh bashing. I've seen very little from the Welsh media that berates the Pro 12. Can't really remember any to be honest. It is only on here that I read it. But the message from Irish posters is that sponsors will be put off by this negativity. That sponsors even read 606v2. Fans won't turn up when they read it. Investment will drop. Numbers will drop, etc. OK, but you must extend that to your own media too. Just because the Western Mail has commented on it doesn't take away from the fact that your OWN media have now sullied the league. Doesn't matter if the guy is a buffoon. We have buffoons too. Doesn't matter if you don't rate him as a journalist. Very few rate the WOL/WM either. It would just be nice if you accepted your own (Irish) part in running down the league rather than trying to turn it back to us. It's only fair.

Griff

Posts : 5802
Join date : 2011-06-03
Location : Newport

Back to top Go down

Re: "Pro12 = A cesspool with the stench of mediocrity'

Post by Munchkin on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 2:08 pm

Griff wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
Griff wrote:Doesn't this sort of talk from the Irish media paint the league in a bad light, devalue the league and put off potential sponsors and investors?  For shame Ireland!  "Get your house in order" Shocked  

Well it was published 3-4 months ago and had sunk without trace or subsequent commentary.

Then Wales Online decided to write about the article and try to portray it as something new and recent.  

Crappy journalism standards frankly, Griff.  Welsh media reheating it three months later doesn't look good.  

Not to worry. The new season will be upon us soon, and they can revert back to bashing Warren Gatland and pretending that with a different coach Wales would blow away the rest the rugby world with attacking rugby hitherto unsurpassed.

Love how you guys twist this to Welsh bashing.  I've seen very little from the Welsh media that berates the Pro 12.  Can't really remember any to be honest.  It is only on here that I read it.  But the message from Irish posters is that sponsors will be put off by this negativity.  That sponsors even read 606v2.  Fans won't turn up when they read it.  Investment will drop.  Numbers will drop, etc.  OK, but you must extend that to your own media too.  Just because the Western Mail has commented on it doesn't take away from the fact that your OWN media have now sullied the league.   Doesn't matter if the guy is a buffoon.  We have buffoons too.  Doesn't matter if you don't rate him as a journalist.  Very few rate the WOL/WM either.  It would just be nice if you accepted your own (Irish) part in running down the league rather than trying to turn it back to us.  It's only fair.

You make a fair point, Griff. Hook isn't a respected rugby journalist, and neither is Simon Thomas. Both are equally guilty of running the PRO12 down, the latter feeding off the former.

Traditionally, in cyberworld, it has been a few of the Welsh fans, here and on other sites, that like to indulge in knocking the PRO12, although there has been a positive reaction to changes made for this season. There are certain individuals who have turned knocking the PRO12/Irish into a crusade. Not that the PRO12 doesn't need change, it does, but the constant bitching about it serves no purpose other than to diminish its reputation, which is the agenda of the few. Some would like to see PRO12 destroyed.

Munchkin

Posts : 6624
Join date : 2012-11-10

Back to top Go down

Re: "Pro12 = A cesspool with the stench of mediocrity'

Post by Pot Hale on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 2:12 pm

Griff wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
Griff wrote:Doesn't this sort of talk from the Irish media paint the league in a bad light, devalue the league and put off potential sponsors and investors?  For shame Ireland!  "Get your house in order" Shocked  

Well it was published 3-4 months ago and had sunk without trace or subsequent commentary.

Then Wales Online decided to write about the article and try to portray it as something new and recent.  

Crappy journalism standards frankly, Griff.  Welsh media reheating it three months later doesn't look good.  

Not to worry. The new season will be upon us soon, and they can revert back to bashing Warren Gatland and pretending that with a different coach Wales would blow away the rest the rugby world with attacking rugby hitherto unsurpassed.

Love how you guys twist this to Welsh bashing.  I've seen very little from the Welsh media that berates the Pro 12.  Can't really remember any to be honest.  It is only on here that I read it.  But the message from Irish posters is that sponsors will be put off by this negativity.  That sponsors even read 606v2.  Fans won't turn up when they read it.  Investment will drop.  Numbers will drop, etc.  OK, but you must extend that to your own media too.  Just because the Western Mail has commented on it doesn't take away from the fact that your OWN media have now sullied the league.   Doesn't matter if the guy is a buffoon.  We have buffoons too.  Doesn't matter if you don't rate him as a journalist.  Very few rate the WOL/WM either.  It would just be nice if you accepted your own (Irish) part in running down the league rather than trying to turn it back to us.  It's only fair.

Griff - I fully accept there are journalists and commentators in Ireland and Irish rugby who take pot-shots at the PRO12. And from sources that I'd regard more highly than Hook. I've never said otherwise.

My point was that Wales Online deciding to reheat the story was pretty poor journalism given it was 3 months old.

Pot Hale

Posts : 4630
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 54
Location : Dublhkining

Back to top Go down

Re: "Pro12 = A cesspool with the stench of mediocrity'

Post by Dai Llewod on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 3:13 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
My point was that Wales Online deciding to reheat the story was pretty poor journalism given it was 3 months old.  

What do you think Wales Online's agenda is regards this? Why run the Pro12 down?

Dai Llewod

Posts : 218
Join date : 2016-06-03

Back to top Go down

Re: "Pro12 = A cesspool with the stench of mediocrity'

Post by funnyExiledScot on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 3:15 pm

Nothing original to say?

funnyExiledScot

Posts : 14476
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 35
Location : Edinburgh

Back to top Go down

Re: "Pro12 = A cesspool with the stench of mediocrity'

Post by doctor_grey on Mon 01 Aug 2016, 5:52 pm

Irish Londoner wrote:Dr Grey, the problem with a merged league is very simple, what are the benefits for the English clubs ?
They've just signed a TV deal that (in rugby terms) is huge, the top clubs are getting big crowds anyway (Saracens excepted) and the smaller clubs are happy to be given enough to stay sustainable in the medium term.
If anything I'd say the mood in the Avivia is more towards ring fencing and it would happen in a heartbeat if they thought they could get away with it, without the wrath of the RFU and Championship clubs falling on their backs.
The RFU are filling Twickenham for every game, the RWC overall was a huge success and the England team are in the ascendant.
So what do England get out of it that they don't get now ?
Improved financial stability.

I suppose we have parallel threads going now: the Cesspool one and the Below Franglais one. sounds like titles for bad movies, eh?

I think the financial incentive is significant. Especially since the English teams can't pull significant additional revenue out of their buildings because they are generally small, Wasps and Leicester the exceptions. Bigger matches with different teams will, I believe, drive more interest, which should drives tv ratings, and therefore, income. Plus there would be a level of stability which we do not have at the moment. Most Premiership clubs have to balance their books. With more regular income this can happen easier. And if the Premiership is truly looking at being a ring-fenced operation, they why not ring fence with an already ring-fenced league?

doctor_grey

Posts : 7675
Join date : 2011-04-30

Back to top Go down

Re: "Pro12 = A cesspool with the stench of mediocrity'

Post by marty2086 on Tue 02 Aug 2016, 2:05 pm

doc how does a B&I league provide any of the above to the AP teams?

If teams are playing week in and week out do the bigger matches not just become regular matches after a while?

marty2086

Posts : 4831
Join date : 2011-05-13
Age : 30
Location : Belfast

Back to top Go down

Re: "Pro12 = A cesspool with the stench of mediocrity'

Post by Pot Hale on Tue 02 Aug 2016, 2:49 pm

Dai Llewod wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
My point was that Wales Online deciding to reheat the story was pretty poor journalism given it was 3 months old.  

What do you think Wales Online's agenda is regards this? Why run the Pro12 down?

No idea. Playing to the errr crowd?

Pot Hale

Posts : 4630
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 54
Location : Dublhkining

Back to top Go down

Re: "Pro12 = A cesspool with the stench of mediocrity'

Post by Stone Motif on Thu 04 Aug 2016, 6:00 pm

http://theeastterrace.typepad.com/

Lulz

Stone Motif

Posts : 1884
Join date : 2012-03-26
Location : Gwent Region

Back to top Go down

Re: "Pro12 = A cesspool with the stench of mediocrity'

Post by Pot Hale on Thu 04 Aug 2016, 9:00 pm

Stone Motif wrote:http://theeastterrace.typepad.com/

Lulz

Is that meant to be humourous?

You'd know where it came from when you see the "Oirish" name - Patrick Connor.

Pot Hale

Posts : 4630
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 54
Location : Dublhkining

Back to top Go down

Re: "Pro12 = A cesspool with the stench of mediocrity'

Post by Stone Motif on Thu 04 Aug 2016, 9:39 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:http://theeastterrace.typepad.com/

Lulz

Is that meant to be humourous?

You'd know where it came from when you see the "Oirish" name - Patrick Connor.  

Laugh or cry, you decide

Stone Motif

Posts : 1884
Join date : 2012-03-26
Location : Gwent Region

Back to top Go down

Re: "Pro12 = A cesspool with the stench of mediocrity'

Post by Pot Hale on Thu 04 Aug 2016, 11:33 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:http://theeastterrace.typepad.com/

Lulz

Is that meant to be humourous?

You'd know where it came from when you see the "Oirish" name - Patrick Connor.  

Laugh or cry, you decide

God - it's full of truly dreadful, cliched, cringeworthy stuff.

I couldn't even waste tears on it.

Pot Hale

Posts : 4630
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 54
Location : Dublhkining

Back to top Go down

Re: "Pro12 = A cesspool with the stench of mediocrity'

Post by Stone Motif on Fri 05 Aug 2016, 8:52 am

Pot Hale wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:http://theeastterrace.typepad.com/

Lulz

Is that meant to be humourous?

You'd know where it came from when you see the "Oirish" name - Patrick Connor.  

Laugh or cry, you decide

God - it's full of truly dreadful, cliched, cringeworthy stuff.  

I couldn't even waste tears on it.  

The PrO'12? I couldn't agree more

Stone Motif

Posts : 1884
Join date : 2012-03-26
Location : Gwent Region

Back to top Go down

Re: "Pro12 = A cesspool with the stench of mediocrity'

Post by Munchkin on Fri 05 Aug 2016, 10:42 am

Stone Motif wrote:http://theeastterrace.typepad.com/

Lulz

"Lulz" .....


Rolling Eyes

Munchkin

Posts : 6624
Join date : 2012-11-10

Back to top Go down

Re: "Pro12 = A cesspool with the stench of mediocrity'

Post by Pot Hale on Fri 05 Aug 2016, 2:47 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:http://theeastterrace.typepad.com/

Lulz

Is that meant to be humourous?

You'd know where it came from when you see the "Oirish" name - Patrick Connor.  

Laugh or cry, you decide

God - it's full of truly dreadful, cliched, cringeworthy stuff.  

I couldn't even waste tears on it.  

The PrO'12?  I couldn't agree more

No - the website you referenced - East Terrace.

Pot Hale

Posts : 4630
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 54
Location : Dublhkining

Back to top Go down

Re: "Pro12 = A cesspool with the stench of mediocrity'

Post by PhilBB on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 9:05 am

Sorry, it was my fault for tweeting that Hook article.

Hook is right, by the way.

PhilBB

Posts : 3515
Join date : 2012-10-09

http://www.cardiffrfcfans.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: "Pro12 = A cesspool with the stench of mediocrity'

Post by Sponsored content Today at 8:37 pm


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 2 Previous  1, 2

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum