5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Sat 13 Aug 2016, 12:47 am

First topic message reminder :

The other thread is coming to an end and I think it's nice to have a new memory to take us through this year.

And with the new season starting today, what better time to refresh things and start again. The preamble of pre-season is over: 2016/17 LETS BE AVIN YA

by Jermaine2015 Mon 17 Oct 2016, 8:41 pm

Young offers discipline down the left, but Rashford is better coming in the left rather than as a right winger.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Mon 17 Oct 2016, 8:42 pm

He was key when you were doing well. Gets close to Ibra

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Mon 17 Oct 2016, 8:42 pm

Jordan Henderson passing the ball straight to Eric Bailly there

#accurate

by Ent Mon 17 Oct 2016, 8:42 pm

Got lazy and letting them pass it out now though.

by Ent Mon 17 Oct 2016, 8:44 pm

Referee is a donkey.

by Guest Mon 17 Oct 2016, 8:45 pm

Not surprised Jose stinking the game out. Take a 0-0 & move on.

by Ent Mon 17 Oct 2016, 8:46 pm

As he continues to show.

by Jermaine2015 Mon 17 Oct 2016, 8:48 pm

Mourinho needs to get Mata on to get some composure in the third.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Mon 17 Oct 2016, 8:49 pm

This game needs some Wes Hoolahan

by GSC Mon 17 Oct 2016, 8:51 pm

What a bunch of overhyped s***e

by Ent Mon 17 Oct 2016, 8:53 pm

Been a poor game.

United not showing much ambition, Liverpool think the aim is to kick the ball out of play as often as possible.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Mon 17 Oct 2016, 8:54 pm

Was interesting but Liverpool haven't been good and when United dropped off it was two poor sides

by Jermaine2015 Mon 17 Oct 2016, 9:11 pm

Herrera best player on the park by a country mile...Can the worst

by Jermaine2015 Mon 17 Oct 2016, 9:15 pm

Referee has been a bit indifferent to say the least

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Mon 17 Oct 2016, 9:15 pm

Herrera seems a definite to be booked, not that he is fouling badly (or even fouling on some occasion) but he's got to be on the ref's mind now

by Fernando Mon 17 Oct 2016, 9:25 pm

So Liverpool much better without Sturridge on the pitch

Pogba going over the ball tackle Milner

by Jermaine2015 Mon 17 Oct 2016, 9:27 pm

Felliani is awful

by Jermaine2015 Mon 17 Oct 2016, 9:29 pm

De Gea bit special

by Guest Mon 17 Oct 2016, 9:33 pm

Utd will get a winner.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Mon 17 Oct 2016, 9:42 pm

Valencia with the best moment of the game

by Jermaine2015 Mon 17 Oct 2016, 9:42 pm

Phenomenonal last ditch tackle by Valencia

by Jermaine2015 Mon 17 Oct 2016, 9:50 pm

Dire match in all fairness. Herrera was the best player by mile and he's a holding midfielder...

by Guest Mon 17 Oct 2016, 9:54 pm

What a steaming pile of crap that was.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Mon 17 Oct 2016, 9:57 pm

Best chance of the game fell to United in a really dull 50/50 match. Liverpool didn't turn up until the second half and didn't scare man united as much as they have some other sides.

by **Crimey** Mon 17 Oct 2016, 9:57 pm

Boring game really.

Lallana was missed for Liverpool, Manchester United weren't great after the first half an hour. Fellaini just isn't a very good footballer. Thought Ibrahimovic was surprisingly the hardest worker for United, constantly pressing.

I'll take 0-0 and move onto the next. I sometimes feel like Mourinho has fallen out of love with football.

by Ent Mon 17 Oct 2016, 9:58 pm

Awful game, a lot of players needing to take long hard looks at themselves.

1 win in 4 for United and a lot of tough games coming up- we don't play in the most energy conserving style either.

Don't think we will get top four so who will be our new manager next season and what average players will we spend £200 million on.

by Guest Mon 17 Oct 2016, 9:59 pm

Just John wrote:Not surprised Jose stinking the game out. Take a 0-0 & move on.

Mourinho's job complete. Fully expect to see the same next Sunday when he takes United to Stamford Bridge. No chance he will risk losing that one

by GSC Mon 17 Oct 2016, 10:00 pm

GSC wrote:What a bunch of overhyped s***e

by **Crimey** Tue 18 Oct 2016, 10:14 am

Ent wrote:Awful game, a lot of players needing to take long hard looks at themselves.

1 win in 4 for United and a lot of tough games coming up- we don't play in the most energy conserving style either.

Don't think we will get top four so who will be our new manager next season and what average players will we spend £200 million on.

I really wouldn't be surprised to see Ronaldo return in a couple years as a Zlatan replacement.

by Guest Tue 18 Oct 2016, 10:35 am

Distinct lack of ambition from Jose who seemed happy to park the bus and get his digs in ie "They're not the last wonder of the world like you seem to think". Not sure how any Utd fan can be happy with that attitude. Jose seems more bothered by the fact that the likes of Pep and Klopp are being highly praised by the media and it obviously sticks in his craw but rather than go out and play attacking, expressive, expansive football, he's happy to stick 7+ players behind the ball and say, "Look, they aren't that good!" without actually doing anything of note himself.

Bear in mind, he lambasted Big Sam for playing 19th century football then puts out team who seemed intent of fouling and spoiling the flow of the game without doing anything positive. Their ONE shot on target was a deflection in the first half.

Man Utd v Liverpool is football's version of Ali/Frazier. can you imagine either fighter refusing to engage the other and not expect the crowd to get upset?

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Tue 18 Oct 2016, 10:40 am

Bit rich, they outplayed you in the fast half and probably had the best chance. It was a real 50/50 game of two teams nowhere near their best. Neither team deserved to win

by lfc91 Tue 18 Oct 2016, 11:04 am

Was just awful to be honest. As for Mourinho parking the bus, every man and his dog knew that's what he was going to do. As has been pointed out, Liverpool were the form team playing at home. He played in a manor that had earned him results in the past in similar situations. The onus was on Liverpool to break down a team who they pretty much knew would play this exact way. More disappointed that we failed to do so. And as Dolph pointed out there was a portion of game they were better than us, regardless of the brand of football they were playing.

It is scary how quickly our performance improved after sturridge was removed. Was like someone flipped a switch and woke liverpool up! Big games like this aren't really suited for sturridge playing the style of football Klopp wants to play it would seem, Firmino much better suited to leading the line.

As for the result, United will be happier but not the end of the world for Liverpool. We get a win on saturday and we are right back on track. Really our sitting pretty based on how difficult our start was on paper.

by dyrewolfe Tue 18 Oct 2016, 11:11 am

Funny you should say that. I've been saying the same about Sturridge playing for England.

by lfc91 Tue 18 Oct 2016, 11:14 am

dyrewolfe wrote:Funny you should say that. I've been saying the same about Sturridge playing for England.

Could say it of most players currently playing for England....

by Guest Tue 18 Oct 2016, 11:15 am

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Bit rich, they outplayed you in the fast half and probably had the best chance. It was a real 50/50 game of two teams nowhere near their best. Neither team deserved to win

They had the better of the first 30 minutes and did nothing of note for the remaining 60. Fair play to them for their defensive minded approach and as mentioned the onus was on us to find a way through, which we did on a couple of occasions and were thwarted only by De Gea and Valencia. Should have created more and got to grips with the game sooner but my point is that given the magnitude of the game (even from a historic perspective) would/are Utd fans be happy with Jose's apparently negative approach to the game. What Utd fan walks away thinking "Great, a point at Anfield"?

by Guest Tue 18 Oct 2016, 11:19 am

lfc91 wrote:Was just awful to be honest. As for Mourinho parking the bus, every man and his dog knew that's what he was going to do. As has been pointed out, Liverpool were the form team playing at home. He played in a manor that had earned him results in the past in similar situations. The onus was on Liverpool to break down a team who they pretty much knew would play this exact way. More disappointed that we failed to do so. And as Dolph pointed out there was a portion of game they were better than us, regardless of the brand of football they were playing.

It is scary how quickly our performance improved after sturridge was removed. Was like someone flipped a switch and woke liverpool up! Big games like this aren't really suited for sturridge playing the style of football Klopp wants to play it would seem, Firmino much better suited to leading the line.

As for the result, United will be happier but not the end of the world for Liverpool. We get a win on saturday and we are right back on track. Really our sitting pretty based on how difficult our start was on paper.

Thought it was a toss up between taking Can off and Sturridge at one point. Would have happily taken Can off at half time as I thought he was poor. Granted he grew into the game but as Carra said, would Lallana's introduction have opened up the spaces for Sturridge? Also agree, even though I'm a fan of his, that when everyone is fit, Sturridge would struggle to get into the starting eleven at the minute and that's probably based on his inability/refusal to do the same kind of hard work that Firmino puts in regularly. Still think Sturridge is a big impact player from the bench but can't see him being happy as a sub.

by lfc91 Tue 18 Oct 2016, 11:27 am

Yeah Can was poor for the first half. Just looked so rusty, labored touches and slow play. Surprisingly got better as the game went on (surprising because i thought a lack of match fitness would have meant he got worse as the game went on). On the whole though our whole style of play shouldn't be dependent on 1 player playing/not playing! If it is obvious Sturridge won't/can't do what is needed then play Origi or Ings once he is back to full fitness. Has looked very good for the Under 23s.

On a related note, can anyone else remember the last time they seen sturridge sprint? Seems to me the most he ever gets to is about 80%! Either the injuries have taken a yard or two of pace, or he is afraid to really put the foot down for fear of getting injured again! Either way a striker who doesn't sprint isn't really a positive is it...

by Scott is Back Tue 18 Oct 2016, 11:37 am

DAVE667 wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Bit rich, they outplayed you in the fast half and probably had the best chance. It was a real 50/50 game of two teams nowhere near their best. Neither team deserved to win
They had the better of the first 30 minutes and did nothing of note for the remaining 60. Fair play to them for their defensive minded approach and as mentioned the onus was on us to find a way through, which we did on a couple of occasions and were thwarted only by De Gea and Valencia. Should have created more and got to grips with the game sooner but my point is that given the magnitude of the game (even from a historic perspective) would/are Utd fans be happy with Jose's apparently negative approach to the game. What Utd fan walks away thinking "Great, a point at Anfield"?

As a Utd fan, its a tough one, Liverpool are the in form team, and at home, so offered a point before the game, i think i would have taken it considering our form....but to see how it was played out, it doesnt feel that good.

At the risk of going against the grain, im really dissappointed in Ibra, spent most of the game walking around, pressing hard occasionally, any attacks are thwarted when he is walking back from an offside position, as good a finisher he is, he is extremely lazy! Ander Herrera was brilliant, as he always is when he gets his chances. De Gea goes without saying, world number 1 for me.

Liverpool seem to have a brilliant plan A, but not much of a plan b...they are in a lot better position than they have been in many years (even the suarez years IMO). I think they need to let Sturridge go, i dont see the fuss surrounding him at any level, his first touch is appalling, and his "shoot on sight" policy is ok, when you can actually hit the target!

We all knew Jose can park the bus, and i can live with it if its against the top 3/4 and trying to steal a point, but i wont be happy to see that against the swansea's, Burnelys etc...

by Guest Tue 18 Oct 2016, 12:15 pm

Playing Ibra up front, in a counter attacking system, made no sense. You needed pace up top, Rashford should of been the main man, instead of being wasted out wide again.

As for Sturridge, never rated him. He's not a team player, solely focused on his own game of tricks & shooting at will. Clear as day to see that the injuries have taken away all his pace & his movement is crap.

Game was terrible, sums up the PL & no wonder viewing figures this season for Sky have been in decline, last night wouldn't of helped either ahead of this Sunday's game.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Tue 18 Oct 2016, 12:48 pm

To be fair, Ibra should have scored the only real chance of the game.

Sturridge fit scores 20+ a year. But he doesnt stay fit. Hes the kind of player someone takes a punt on and if he stays fit for a year he improves their finish by a lot. However, its all ifs and buts with him.

Liverpool had as much time on top as Man United, and were really very very poor in the first half. For all this talk about style of play, one team knew how to go into a big game and play and they showed that. For all Liverpool's gusto, Man United had nous and a quality of big game players about them.

by GSC Tue 18 Oct 2016, 12:54 pm

Does it not say something that after all of Mourinho hype and money spent, that getting a point at Anfield is being heralded as a major victory?

by Scott is Back Tue 18 Oct 2016, 1:00 pm

GSC wrote:Does it not say something that after all of Mourinho hype and money spent, that getting a point at Anfield is being heralded as a major victory?

I think at the moment, any team who want to win the premiership would be happy to get a point at Anfield.....realistically, there are matches you look at in the league that you would like to win, but would also rather not lose, Liverpool are one of those teams this season, as are Chelsea, Man City, Arsenal, Spurs.

If you draw those games away from home, and win them at home, win most of your games against the lower 15 teams, you wont be far away!

by lfc91 Tue 18 Oct 2016, 1:07 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:To be fair, Ibra should have scored the only real chance of the game.

Sturridge fit scores 20+ a year. But he doesnt stay fit. Hes the kind of player someone takes a punt on and if he stays fit for a year he improves their finish by a lot. However, its all ifs and buts with him.

Liverpool had as much time on top as Man United, and were really very very poor in the first half. For all this talk about style of play, one team knew how to go into a big game and play and they showed that. For all Liverpool's gusto, Man United had nous and a quality of big game players about them.

We seemed to handle that OK vs Arsenal/Chelsea/Tottenham so far this year. We were the better team in all 3 IMO taking, 7 points from 9. The difference here was Mourinho playing for a point with the park the bus mentality. The 3 I mentioned actually had ideas about trying to win when they played us.

by Ent Tue 18 Oct 2016, 1:11 pm

United don't have the attacking players.

Ibra after a good start has missed more good chances than goals scored, pogba is a donkey.

by Ent Tue 18 Oct 2016, 1:12 pm

lfc91 wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:To be fair, Ibra should have scored the only real chance of the game.

Sturridge fit scores 20+ a year. But he doesnt stay fit. Hes the kind of player someone takes a punt on and if he stays fit for a year he improves their finish by a lot. However, its all ifs and buts with him.

Liverpool had as much time on top as Man United, and were really very very poor in the first half. For all this talk about style of play, one team knew how to go into a big game and play and they showed that. For all Liverpool's gusto, Man United had nous and a quality of big game players about them.

We seemed to handle that OK vs Arsenal/Chelsea/Tottenham so far this year. We were the better team in all 3 IMO taking, 7 points from 9. The difference here was Mourinho playing for a point with the park the bus mentality. The 3 I mentioned actually had ideas about trying to win when they played us.

Worked out well at home for them didn't it.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Tue 18 Oct 2016, 9:07 pm

This park the bus stuff is Love sacks. Liverpool were good in that game for the same amount of time United were. Arguably the first time Liverpool have come up against a good side who knew to respect them, so whilst they've done well in those two games, in this one I think they were not as streetwise and that is a negative on their part, not United's.

Add in that it was at Anfield, Liverpool are more settled and on better form, then Man United are definitely happier and should be. Some frailties shown in both sides, some positives too.

I'd have Liverpool second in terms of most impressive sides I've watched this season. So please don't go defensive and say this is some anti-Liverpool rant. If both sides could have lost I'd have been well chuffed

by lfc91 Wed 19 Oct 2016, 7:36 am

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:This park the bus stuff is Love sacks. Liverpool were good in that game for the same amount of time United were. Arguably the first time Liverpool have come up against a good side who knew to respect them, so whilst they've done well in those two games, in this one I think they were not as streetwise and that is a negative on their part, not United's.

Add in that it was at Anfield, Liverpool are more settled and on better form, then Man United are definitely happier and should be. Some frailties shown in both sides, some positives too.

I'd have Liverpool second in terms of most impressive sides I've watched this season. So please don't go defensive and say this is some anti-Liverpool rant. If both sides could have lost I'd have been well chuffed

No the park the bus stuff is very relevant. If one team plays with their sole intention being to get a draw it will have an impact on the entire match. The point I was making is that when both teams come to win it will naturally lead to a more exciting game. Think you are doing Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea a big disservice with that comment also.

However I had said in a previous comment that I was more disappointed that Liverpool allowed United to make them play how they did than how United played, so I agree with the 'streetwise' comment. The bottom line is it is one thing to try to break down a mid-lower table team if they play for the draw. When a team who has the quality of player United have and the quality of Manager play for the draw, it is an entirely different prospect to try and break them down. Hopefully though the team have learned from the experience, as I am sure we will encounter it many more times this year (to a lesser degree).

by Scott is Back Wed 19 Oct 2016, 8:39 am

lfc91 wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:This park the bus stuff is Love sacks. Liverpool were good in that game for the same amount of time United were. Arguably the first time Liverpool have come up against a good side who knew to respect them, so whilst they've done well in those two games, in this one I think they were not as streetwise and that is a negative on their part, not United's.

Add in that it was at Anfield, Liverpool are more settled and on better form, then Man United are definitely happier and should be. Some frailties shown in both sides, some positives too.

I'd have Liverpool second in terms of most impressive sides I've watched this season. So please don't go defensive and say this is some anti-Liverpool rant. If both sides could have lost I'd have been well chuffed

No the park the bus stuff is very relevant. If one team plays with their sole intention being to get a draw it will have an impact on the entire match. The point I was making is that when both teams come to win it will naturally lead to a more exciting game. Think you are doing Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea a big disservice with that comment also.

However I had said in a previous comment that I was more disappointed that Liverpool allowed United to make them play how they did than how United played, so I agree with the 'streetwise' comment. The bottom line is it is one thing to try to break down a mid-lower table team if they play for the draw. When a team who has the quality of player United have and the quality of Manager play for the draw, it is an entirely different prospect to try and break them down. Hopefully though the team have learned from the experience, as I am sure we will encounter it many more times this year (to a lesser degree).

Im not sure they came to park the bus, as the first half was as one-way as the second half was....i think Utd knew at half time that they had expended a lot of energy, and hung on for the draw.

The first 30-40 mins was not parking the bus!

by lfc91 Wed 19 Oct 2016, 8:55 am

Suppose the whole parking the bus thing is subjective, but they still adopted the 6-3-1 formation for large portions of the first half. Very defensive.

Opinions will obviously all differ on this, but my own admittedly biased opinion was that Mourinho approached the entire game with a very defensive approach geared towards getting a draw. The direct approach that accompanied this just happened to have a degree of success for a big portion of the first half.

by **Crimey** Wed 19 Oct 2016, 10:17 am

I did think Pogba was particularly poor, the only thing he was good for in that game was as a tall player to stand next to Ibrahimovic when Karius had the ball, which I'm sure isn't what he was bought for. He's obviously still got to adjust to the Premier League and with the pressure of being the most expensive player ever. I'm just not sure he fits into the United side at present. Crazy to think, but there is definitely an argument to say that Manchester United's best XI doesn't contain Pogba.

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