Same Tim Cymru v J'ai une tour Eiffel dans mon pantalon

First topic message reminder :

Welsh squad remains the same for the showdown in Paris.

Would have swapped over Halfpenny and Williams personally

Halfpenny, North, Davies, S William, L Williams; Biggar, Webb; Evans, Owens, Francis, Ball, AW Jones (capt), Warburton, Tipuric, Moriarty.

Replacements: Baldwin, Smith, Lee, Charteris, Faletau, G Davies, S Davies, Roberts.


French team announced

Dulin - Nakaitaci, Fickou, Lamerat, Vakatawa - Lopez, Serin - Gourdon, Picamoles, Sanconnie - Maestri, Vahaamahina - Slimani, Guirado, Baille.

Les remplaçants : Chat, Atonio, Ben Arous, Le Devedec, Chouly, Trinh-Duc, Dupont, Huget

Well, he is Welsh so ..... an inevitable horse in the race.  

But even he admitted he was 'surprised' Barnes didn't award a penalty try at the 98th minute - and he does so on the grounds of repeated infringements blown up by the very ref he is defending:

"Under law, the referee has to believe 'a try would probably have been scored'. Barnes felt otherwise, but he could easily have given it, considering the amount of times Wales were transgressing by this point."

In that area of the field penalties are cumulative - meaning the referee judges that the defending team will constantly infringe to protect the try line and makes a judgement to eventually award a penalty try to the attacking side because the defending team is proving it doesn't want to compete fairly.

So even as Bodilly defends Barnes' calls, he implicitly admits that a ref already had ample cause to award a penalty try to France even before the 98th minute!

The best thing that Barnes did was not award a penalty try, everything else was just the circumstances as they evolved, thats why I suggested earlier that the law needs to be revisited.Once extra time as gone past a set time ie 85 minutes, and the ball is not in play then the referee blows fulltime. the reason this game went on for such an insanely extensive period wasnt Barnes fault.

  League has it pretty much right, but they do play out the penalty.

Barnes could have stopped it much earlier...a quick run to under the posts and a shrill whistle.

SecretFly wrote:Barnes could have stopped it much earlier...a quick run to under the posts and a shrill whistle.

I reckon he didn't want to be that ref that decided a game in injury time by awarding a penalty try. Therefore, he just let the game carry on as long as it took for France to score a regular try. Even if that took 30 mins.

Any takers on why Lee was binned then? Or was it just another oddball moment from Barnes?

I thought this was a great game until the sin-binning. That killed all France's momentum.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I thought this was a great game until the sin-binning. That killed all France's momentum.

Me too. When a ref does something completely inconsistent like that teams who were gaining momentum can go into their shell a bit and be over cautious.

Wasn't Barnes pretty consistent with his calls but one touch judge called for a review and 1 didn't? Once it went to the tmo should he have decided to ignore the laws to keep it even? Same with the pen try....by the laws there really isn't much case to give one.

I hope the folks who've been denying Barnes is a crook all these years have eaten a bit of humble pie!

rodders wrote:I hope the folks who've been denying Barnes is a crook all these years have eaten a bit of  humble pie!

Barnes was just ushering in the new World Rugby directive of 100 minute games (it'll be quarters rather than halves though). They needed their best man on the job

Imagine if this had happened on a Friday night game. Fans would still be getting home now...

I wonder will posters still refer to him as world class now?

Give Ireland those 17 points back ya crook!

You not answering that point then guns?

No 7&1/2 wrote:You not answering that point then guns?

What point?

That Barnes decision in 3 instances were the same. The 2nd wenter to tmo after discussion with assistant. Once it had should he have ignored the yellow he felt it deserved to even up a decision from earlier that wasn't reviewed. Or is the lesson review everything you possibly can even if you're happy with it at the time?

He was well below average in this game that Barnes, but that shouldn't detract away from the fact he's an elite ref. For this one bad game against France I can shows you about 5-10 previous games against Ireland where he was flawless .

Not only should the obviously intentional knock-on by Wales have went to the TMO, the so-called intentional knock-on from France was in the act of making a tackle. How Barnes came to the conclusion that the guy did that on purpose is beyond me. Vakatawa may well have knew what he was doing, but I have no idea how anyone watching could know one way or the other. His eyes were fixed on the player he was tackling before committing himself.

You can't assume what is in the player's head when there is little evidence that he was doing anything other than making a tackle.

Fitzgibbon was TMO

No 7&1/2 wrote:That Barnes decision in 3 instances were the same. The 2nd wenter to tmo after discussion with assistant. Once it had should he have ignored the yellow he felt it deserved to even up a decision from earlier that wasn't reviewed. Or is the lesson review everything you possibly can even if you're happy with it at the time?

A better ref would have been consistent in his decision. It was a case of fairly blatant bias towards Wales as per usual.

You haven't really answered the point again. Consistent in not going to the tmo you mean after his assistant suggested or wasn't sure as the previous one was you mean?

No 7&1/2 wrote:You haven't really answered the point again. Consistent in not going to the tmo you mean after his assistant suggested or wasn't sure as the previous one was you mean?

With Barnes there is always an excuse for his errors. Terribly biased ref.

You still haven't answered.

I don't think many or any (sensible) Welsh posters are disagreeing that the JD2 slap down should have resulted in a yellow card for him, and for my part I think the best team won that game. What gets me is the fact that there is NOT the slightest bit of evidence that Antonio had anything like an HIA in prospect, he went off because of a back injury which was relayed to Barnes, and the icing on the cake is the fact he (Antonio) is seen walking up the tunnel with nobody in attendance. If it was a back injury Slimani would not have been allowed to deputise for him. Was there conclusive proof of a Penalty try before Antonio went off? I don't think so, I'm not even sure there was conclusive proof that there was a try going to be scored after he went off.

Let me finally add all this talk about the incompetence of Barnes by especially the Irish, what hypocrites when we have had to put up with BLIND IRISH REFEREES for decades, and what about the Referee on Saturday that had to be told the rules of Rugby Union by his Linesman, funnily enough the same linesman that had to educate the Irish/Scot Patterson in a game between Ospreys and Ulster last season.

wayne wrote:If it was a back injury Slimani would not have been allowed to deputise for him.

Why?

He could except Antonio had just told Barnes he was fine to continue. The doc then came on to the field to say he needed a check and thus get the better scrummage back on.

This is from a rather accurate timeline of events Ive seen elsewhere

2.07.10 BT 79.47 GT - French doctor on again for a quick word with Atonio
2.07.29 BT 79.47 GT - Barnes asks Atonio four times if he is injured finishes with "you're OK, fine, let's go". Slimani is shown warming up on the sideline
2.08.07 BT 79.58 GT - scrum collapses
2.08.12 BT 80.03 GT - clock stops, French doctor on again, Atonio comes off, Slimani on, Brian Moore "that's just an amazing coincidence", Barnes talking to French doctor "do you think he needs a head assessment, as a doctor do you think he needs a head assessment"

Scottrf wrote:

wayne wrote:If it was a back injury Slimani would not have been allowed to deputise for him.

Why?

7&1/2 has just answered for you.

His name is Atonio.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:His name is Atonio.

Thanks

Ah sorry. Still a horrendous looking piece of tactics by France. Not sure how they will play it, probably will try for mistakes communication but would be surprised if they get away with it.

As I was in a pub at the time I'll ask again, why the hell was Lee binned? I thought it was a good defensive display by Wales where we held France up on the line, ergo turnover and game over. I didn't see where this particular offense was? That said, France's yellow in the opening 20 wasn't a yellow either - but if Barnes deemed it a yellow in that area of the field could it have been a penalty try?

From a memory which is already fading didn't Lee get pinged for slowing the ball? No a penalty try has to be when the ref think a try would definitely be scored.

Or most likely scored...

wayne wrote:
Let me finally add all this talk about the incompetence of Barnes by especially the Irish, what hypocrites when we have had to put up with BLIND IRISH REFEREES for decades, and what about the Referee on Saturday that had to be told the rules of Rugby Union by his Linesman, funnily enough the same linesman that had to educate the Irish/Scot Patterson in a game between Ospreys and Ulster last season.  

OUCH! Blimmin' below the belt bollixin' about there, wayne


....now back to Barnes and the 20 minutes played to avoid a penalty-try call.

A try was more likely to be scored there than it was at the final stages of scrums, which is why it's funny reading how people are so convinced a penalty try should have been awarded to France at that point. I didn't see that offence from Lee as I haven't rewatched but taking all this into consideration along with the cheating and biting from France there is no way that Barnes was favouring Wales.

I really though Barnes handled it well.

SecretFly wrote:

wayne wrote:
Let me finally add all this talk about the incompetence of Barnes by especially the Irish, what hypocrites when we have had to put up with BLIND IRISH REFEREES for decades, and what about the Referee on Saturday that had to be told the rules of Rugby Union by his Linesman, funnily enough the same linesman that had to educate the Irish/Scot Patterson in a game between Ospreys and Ulster last season.  

OUCH!  Blimmin' below the belt bollixin' about there, wayne


....now back to Barnes and the 20 minutes played to avoid a penalty-try call.

Fly I don't actually agree with the Irish Referee Taunt, I should have put a smiley in there, but couldn't resist it because of primarily G&Gs taunts, what did you actually think of Owens having to educate Gauzere (sp) on the field Saturday? Pretty poor standard of refereeing in my eyes, at least Barnes knew the laws

Just for you Fly

I would like to ask every and any Welsh Fan about the Welsh coaches Rob Howley and Neil Jenkins. It as been known for some time now the Rob Howley would after the 6ns join the Lions squad.

It as now come about that Neil Jenkins is also joining the Lions squad.

Now the 6ns is over, are they both ( now with the Lions squad/team) or are they both still with the Wales squad having to do reports/inquest for the WRU.

When do they join the Lions squad?

TightHEAD wrote:I really though Barnes handled it well.

Top marks for effort

wayne wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

wayne wrote:
Let me finally add all this talk about the incompetence of Barnes by especially the Irish, what hypocrites when we have had to put up with BLIND IRISH REFEREES for decades, and what about the Referee on Saturday that had to be told the rules of Rugby Union by his Linesman, funnily enough the same linesman that had to educate the Irish/Scot Patterson in a game between Ospreys and Ulster last season.  

OUCH!  Blimmin' below the belt bollixin' about there, wayne


....now back to Barnes and the 20 minutes played to avoid a penalty-try call.

Fly I don't actually agree with the Irish Referee Taunt, I should have put a smiley in there, but couldn't resist it because of primarily G&Gs taunts, what did you actually think of Owens having to educate Gauzere (sp) on the field Saturday? Pretty poor standard of refereeing in my eyes, at least Barnes knew the laws

Just for you Fly  

Own up, wayne, you meant it!

This isn't about Irish refs though. It's about Barnes incredibly poor performance in the France v Wales game, and how it adds fuel to the fire that he's a biased ref.

He should have awarded the penalty try. Not doing so is really bizarre.

majesticimperialman wrote:I would like to ask every and any Welsh Fan about the Welsh coaches Rob Howley and Neil Jenkins. It as been known for some time now the Rob Howley would after the 6ns join the Lions squad.

It as now come about that Neil Jenkins is also joining the Lions squad.

Now the 6ns is over, are they both ( now with the Lions squad/team) or are they both still with the Wales squad having to do reports/inquest for the WRU.

When do they join the Lions squad?

Start in St Mary's Street at about 11.30pm, i expect you'll be finished pretty quickly with all the information you need.

Biased for who though, surely not Wales? He didn't award us a penalty try for the deliberate knock-on, gave Lee a random YC and allowed France to cheat. Very poor and odd performance from him on the whole, much unlike his great efforts in previous Wales vs Ireland fixtures.

When should he have awarded a pen try munchkin?

And harsh mikey...If a Dr has lied to him he can't exactly go against him.

Only in the 6 Nations would you have a game between France and Wales and it's the Irish complaining about the referee

No 7&1/2 wrote:And harsh mikey...If a Dr has lied to him he can't exactly go against him.

St George didn't lie though .

And a little unfortunate that it wasn't caught on camera.

Cyril wrote:Only in the 6 Nations would you have a game between France and Wales and it's the Irish complaining about the referee

He is a particularly sh1t referee though.

mikey_dragon wrote:Biased for who though, surely not Wales? He didn't award us a penalty try for the deliberate knock-on

But he did card Vakatawa. Earlier he waved away Guirado's claims of a deliberate knock-on by Jonathan Davies. Poor polite Guirado, if only he'd ranted and raved like Dan Biggar, maybe he'd have got a card out of it too.

mikey_dragon wrote:Biased for who though, surely not Wales? He didn't award us a penalty try for the deliberate knock-on, gave Lee a random YC and allowed France to cheat. Very poor and odd performance from him on the whole, much unlike his great efforts in previous Wales vs Ireland fixtures.

Just to be clear; I'm not saying he is biased. I am saying it certainly provides ammunition for those claiming he is.

Barnes refuses to go to TMO for obvious Welsh knock-on. That knock- on should have resulted in a yellow card for for Wales and a penalty try. Barnes then awarded a yellow card to France for doing the exact same thing, even though it looked much less deliberate.

Barnes should have yellow carded another Welsh player for repeated collapsing of the scrum.

Barnes should have awarded a penalty try, and was given ample opportunities to do so.

Barnes may not be biased, but he is inconsistent.