Brexit

by **navyblueshorts** Wed 18 Oct 2017, 8:51 pm

First topic message reminder :

Galted wrote:It will stop foreigners praying in our mosques.

by **JuliusHMarx** Thu 19 Oct 2017, 1:07 pm

LionsV2 wrote:If you're going to try and act all high and mighty then get your facts right, it was the ECJ who blocked the extradition of Abu Hamza..

We must be looking at different sources. Let's assume mine are wrong. Could you provide yours?

by **rIck_dAgless** Thu 19 Oct 2017, 1:10 pm

Galted wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
LionsV2 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
ShahenshahG wrote:You think you've cracked it but there's a reason why Britain begged to join the EEC and you'll spend the rest of your life disavowing responsibility or convincing yourself how life is better now we're out of the EU.

If the EU is so wonderful I cannot help but wonder how it is that 160-odd countries manage to survive outside of it? Or why youth unemployment is so high? Or why anti-EU parties in many parts of the continent are on the rise? Or why the growth in the Eurozone is so stagnant? Or why they struggle to firm up various trade deals? Or why they are so bereft of quality leadership? Or why the complicated bureaucracy of the EU is not cloned across the world?

I proudly voted for Brexit. I proudly campaigned for many days and nights and weeks and months for it. That will never change.

And yes, life will certainly be better outside the EU.

Spot on Duty, the EU doesn't have trade agreements with anyone and the ECJ is abhorrent to me, blocking the extradition of known terrorists on torture grounds. The EU would work if it were a select group of the strongest economies in Europe, there is something to gain from being in cahoots with Germany and France but the former eastern block are simply parasites on our economy, we gain nothing from them.

I feel the same way about the North.

Speak for yourself, northerners make excellent insulation if you can find some way of elIminating the horrific smell.

Hummous eating, cereal café attending, warm pint drinking, southern bell ends...

by **Galted** Thu 19 Oct 2017, 1:17 pm

Oh sh*t, after the demise of Jeff, Tino and SerialDAVE I forgot that we still had a resident Man of the North.

by **Hero** Thu 19 Oct 2017, 1:21 pm

I quite like smelling of gravy and whippets.

by **rIck_dAgless** Thu 19 Oct 2017, 1:25 pm

Someone has to make a stand since they have all jebbed off...

I bet you do, Hero, I bet you do.

by **ShahenshahG** Thu 19 Oct 2017, 1:48 pm

Anyone getting the racist ad at the top from barclays?

by **Galted** Thu 19 Oct 2017, 1:50 pm

Haven't noticed it but, oddly, I frequently get one for a Muslim singles website.

by **ShahenshahG** Thu 19 Oct 2017, 1:52 pm

Probably Duty has been looking it up

by **rIck_dAgless** Thu 19 Oct 2017, 1:54 pm

I have stopped getting the Russian brides one since Tino left

by **ShahenshahG** Thu 19 Oct 2017, 1:56 pm

I knew he was jealous of Galted, reason enough to off yourself

by **Galted** Thu 19 Oct 2017, 2:02 pm

Maybe they closed down the Russian brides site after I snapped up the last one.

by **ShahenshahG** Thu 19 Oct 2017, 2:05 pm

Galted wrote:Maybe they closed down the Russian brides site after I snapped up the last one.

If that was true Russian trannies would have closed years ago but Rowley is still there trying to negotiate a lower price

by Muscular-mouse Thu 19 Oct 2017, 2:14 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Muscular-mouse wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Muscular-mouse wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Muscular-mouse wrote:Can some Brexit supporters please tell me what good has come from brexit? Will it make the UK richer? Will it create more home grown talent? I mean without using soundbites such as 'taking back control' or whatever nonsense politicians use what good do you think brexit will do to the UK.

Brexit hasn't happened yet.

Which is my point, you voted for brexit in order to achieve what? WHat positive outcomes will the UK achieve from brexit?

1) Supremacy of law-making power, thus increasing democratic control.
2) A supreme judicial system, and an end to the European Arrest Warrant.
3) Full control of immigration, so an equal system can be developed for all potential migrants, rather than having a preference for EU over non-EU.
4) Freedom for the UK to control its own trade policy.
5) Full control of the UK’s fishing waters.
6) Saving a net figure of around £8.5 billion a year.
7) Ensuring the UK doesn’t sign up to an EU army.
8) Getting the UK out of the Common Agricultural Policy.

1) UK laws have always been supreme, hence why we could vote in parliament to leave the EU and remove all of their laws. If UK law was not supreme then we wouldn't be able to vote to leave the EU and legally remove all of their laws.

But what you are doing is listing sound bites that sound good on the surface but in reality have little substance. I was hoping for a bit more meat on the bone to be honest.
I'm surprised you haven't listed £350 million for the nhs as point 9

Texas can leave the USA if it wants - does that mean Texan law is supreme? Of course not. The European Communities Act 1972 and the case of Factortame underline that, whilst the UK is a member of the EU, it has to accept the supremacy of EU law over UK law.

How can EU law be supreme over UK law if we can create a UK law to override all EU law??? We literally did just create a uk law to replace EU law which clearly shows that UK law is supreme. If UK law was not supreme we wouldn't be able to do that.

by Muscular-mouse Thu 19 Oct 2017, 2:16 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Muscular-mouse wrote:
Duty281 wrote:I
Muscular-mouse wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Muscular-mouse wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Muscular-mouse wrote:Can some Brexit supporters please tell me what good has come from brexit? Will it make the UK richer? Will it create more home grown talent? I mean without using soundbites such as 'taking back control' or whatever nonsense politicians use what good do you think brexit will do to the UK.

Brexit hasn't happened yet.

Which is my point, you voted for brexit in order to achieve what? WHat positive outcomes will the UK achieve from brexit?

1) Supremacy of law-making power, thus increasing democratic control.
2) A supreme judicial system, and an end to the European Arrest Warrant.
3) Full control of immigration, so an equal system can be developed for all potential migrants, rather than having a preference for EU over non-EU.
4) Freedom for the UK to control its own trade policy.
5) Full control of the UK’s fishing waters.
6) Saving a net figure of around £8.5 billion a year.
7) Ensuring the UK doesn’t sign up to an EU army.
8) Getting the UK out of the Common Agricultural Policy.

I will just touch on a few of those points.

3) why don't you campaign for free movement of NON-EU citizens as well if you are so against eu citizens having an advantage? Don't try to mask your dislike of immigration by pretending that you want to end free movement of EU citizens because for eg Indians or Chinese don't have free movement.

4) what deals do you expect to be better than the ones we already have? Easy to say we can control our trade police but what does that entail? Will we get better deals? Doesn't seem like we will so far.

6) I think we all know that we will lose money by not being in the EU.

7) we had a veto for the EU army so we would never have agreed to it if we didn't want to.

3) Total free movement would be absolute anarchy. You have to have a system in place to maximise the benefits of immigration. And no, I don’t dislike immigration, please don’t invent things to support your point.

4) Free trade deals with any of the 30+ countries who’ve indicated since last year that they want one with the UK for a start! The EU has, historically, proven itself to be very poor in negotiating trade arrangements.

6) Not at all.

7) True, but is there any guarantee the government would use such a veto? This referendum was pretty much the only chance for an ordinary person like you or I to vote against the UK’s involvement in the EU army, as such an issue doesn’t seem to crop up in General Elections.

3) Stop lying, you don't want to end free movement for eu citizens because non-eu citizen don't have free movement. You want to end free movement for eu citizen because you don't like immigration from eu countries. If you cared so much about the job prospects in the uk for indian or Chinese or African migrants you would be arguing for greater immigration powers for those people and less visa restrictions but you are not. You are using them as a pawn in your argument to remove free movement for eu citizens.

4) of course those countries want trade deals with the UK and I am sure the number should be higher than 30 but that doesn't mean anything. That doesn't indicate we would get a better deal, and the negotiations with bombardier and the USA indicate that. At least with the uk we had 600 million citizens and collectively the biggest economy negotiating to get the best deal and now we have 1 country with 65 million people so of course we cant get as good a deal.

7) Personally I see nothing wrong with the EU army, all it was closer integration a bit like Nato but for the EU. But the decision would always rest with the government and as such would be OUR decision as we elect who is in power.

3) I'm not lying. And, yes, I certainly do want a looser cap on skilled immigration.

4) Well, in this case of the US, we currently don't have a trade deal!

7) But this issue doesn't crop up in General Elections, so remains an unknown.

1) then campaign for looser non-eu immigration rather than campaigning for tighter eu-migration under the lie that it is because its unfair on non-eu citizens.

by Duty281 Thu 19 Oct 2017, 5:38 pm

Read up on Factortame and the ECA 1972. The only way your example would work is if there were an EU law preventing member states from leaving (there isn’t).

I campaign for both. And no, it is not a lie, you merely disagree with it.

by Muscular-mouse Thu 19 Oct 2017, 9:27 pm

Duty281 wrote:Read up on Factortame and the ECA 1972. The only way your example would work is if there were an EU law preventing member states from leaving (there isn’t).

I campaign for both. And no, it is not a lie, you merely disagree with it.

But if there is no EU law preventing us from leaving and the UK can make a law at anytime withdrawing us from the EU and removing all EU laws then clearly UK law is supreme.

We were choosing to have eu laws in this country in exchange for being a member of the eu. We then decided we didn't want to be in the eu and thus we decided we no longer wanted eu law in this country and the British Parliament created a law removing all EU laws.

by LionsV2 Thu 19 Oct 2017, 9:43 pm

That's not the point is it, whilst a member EU law takes precedence over UK law, that is the point Duty was making not your long winded nonsense.

by **JuliusHMarx** Fri 20 Oct 2017, 11:02 am

JuliusHMarx wrote:
LionsV2 wrote:If you're going to try and act all high and mighty then get your facts right, it was the ECJ who blocked the extradition of Abu Hamza..

We must be looking at different sources. Let's assume mine are wrong. Could you provide yours?

Which court was it? Did we get to the bottom of it?

by Scottrf Fri 20 Oct 2017, 11:14 am

It was the European Court of Human Rights.

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 20 Oct 2017, 12:12 pm

In fairness the European court stopped the Home Secretary from raising the sentences of the kids that killed Jamie Bulger.

Not that I disagree they were unduly light and should have got longer to begin with. ..... ..But

1. I agree that kids of 10 shouldn't be tried in Adult court.

2. Don't like the idea of politicians intervening with the process for short term political gain.

Distasteful.

by Sin é Sat 21 Oct 2017, 2:22 pm

This will clear it up

http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/front-page-mistake-in-abu-hamza-daughter-story-sees-telegraph-commit-ninth-code-breach-under-ipso/

Front-page mistake in Abu Hamza daughter story sees Telegraph commit ninth code breach under IPSO

Shoaib Khan complained about a piece headlined “Abu Hamza and the latest blow to UK sovereignty”, published in the Daily Telegraph on 6 February 2016.
It reported that an “EU law chief” had “ruled” that terrorist Abu Hamza’s daughter-in-law could not be deported from the UK.
The sub headline stated: “Terrorist’s criminal daughter in-law cannot be deported because of human rights laws”.
The article said that the woman had been jailed for a year in 2012 after “trying to smuggle a mobile phone Sim card” to Abu-Hamza while he was being held in Belmarsh prison. It said that an Advocate General at the Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU) had said that her deportation would, “in principle”, deprive her son the right to family life.

The complainant said that the role of the Advocate General in the CJEU was to give a legal opinion for the court to consider. He said that this opinion was not a ruling of the court, and that the phrase “EU law chief”, and the reference to a “ruling”, were therefore misleading.

On 8 February, the newspaper made a number of amendments to the online article in response to this complaint. It replaced the word “ruled” in the sub headline with, “been advised”, and amended the first sentence to make clear that the Advocate General had said that CS could not be deported “solely because of her criminal past, an EU Advocate General has advised”.

IPSO noted that at the time of publication the CJEU had not made a ruling, but one of its Advocate Generals had provided an opinion.

It said the piece “significantly misrepresented the status of the Advocate General’s opinion by suggesting that the CJEU had ‘ruled’ on this case”.

I blame the sovernigty issues that the UK has are down to the UK not having a codifed Constitution and the British judicial system continually need to look to the EU for opinion on interpretation.

by TRUSSMAN66 Sat 21 Oct 2017, 4:04 pm

Interesting post by Sin e....Well worth a read..

New Survation poll on the EU....Kind of breakdown of where we are..

Voting intention if there was a ref today ??..

Stay 52
Leave 48

Men......Stay 50....Leave 50
Women Stay 53...Leave 47.

18-34......Stay 68...Leave 32
35-54..... Stay 54...Leave 46
55+.........Stay 40...Leave 60.

Not sure it is a healthy thing to have such a generational disparity..

My prediction is Britain's exit is only temporary.

by Duty281 Sat 21 Oct 2017, 10:04 pm

The 18-34 generation will pivot around; those aged 60+ were massively for 'in' the first time around as well...

The UK's exit (if it does, indeed, happen) will be the first of many. thumbsup

by Muscular-mouse Sun 22 Oct 2017, 9:43 pm

Duty281 wrote:The 18-34 generation will pivot around; those aged 60+ were massively for 'in' the first time around as well...

The UK's exit (if it does, indeed, happen) will be the first of many.

It all depends on how well the UK does outside the EU but so far it doesn't look promising.

by catchweight Tue 24 Oct 2017, 7:34 am

Our prime minister reduced to "begging" for help on brexit at the latest eu meeting according to some leaked reports.

by LionsV2 Tue 24 Oct 2017, 7:54 am

What a load of nonsense, the EU really are a pathetic bunch.

by **JuliusHMarx** Tue 24 Oct 2017, 9:14 am

Whereas our politicians are wonderful.

by LionsV2 Tue 24 Oct 2017, 9:20 am

Compared to their European counterparts yes they are, takes a really special group of idiots to drive people to back Farage and Johnson.

by **JuliusHMarx** Tue 24 Oct 2017, 9:22 am

Or it takes a really special group of people to drive idiots to back Farage and Johnson.

by LionsV2 Tue 24 Oct 2017, 9:30 am

Your bitterness makes it all the sweeter.

by **JuliusHMarx** Tue 24 Oct 2017, 9:43 am

Interesting that a) you ascribe emotions to me that aren't applicable, and b) if they were applicable, you'd be pleased by it. That sort of thing says a lot about a person's character.

by LionsV2 Tue 24 Oct 2017, 9:53 am

It does, it would perfectly sum up the contempt I have for remain voters who have a holier than thou attitude, I await your witty retort.

by **JuliusHMarx** Tue 24 Oct 2017, 10:57 am

You have contempt for an attitude I don't have. Fair enough.

by **ShahenshahG** Tue 24 Oct 2017, 11:04 am

Juncker has rubbished the reports and he tends to be tactless rather than cautious so probably papers or functionaries speaking to papers trying to play on her precarious position. The EU doesn't need to resort to this stuff because may is doing worse than they could do. All they are doing is negotiating in good faith.

For example, May has threatened not to accept the transition if the trade deal isn't done in time. So she's threatening not to accept the transition she asked for. The woman is nuts.

by **superflyweight** Tue 24 Oct 2017, 1:25 pm

LionsV2 wrote:It does, it would perfectly sum up the contempt I have for remain voters who have a holier than thou attitude, I await your witty retort.

I voted remain but don't have a holier than thou attitude. I just think you're a f*cking idiot.

by LionsV2 Tue 24 Oct 2017, 1:52 pm

Why thank you, I aim to please.

by Steffan Tue 24 Oct 2017, 2:06 pm

I voted Remain and must admit even I never predicted what a chaotic, unorganised, clueless farce of a shambles that Brexit would become. It's kind of entertaining though I guess

At first I took offence to being called a 'Treacherous vile left snowflake remoaner that should leave this country if you don't like that you lost'...but I've been called it so many times now it's almost starting to fit like a new nickname Very Happy

by **JuliusHMarx** Tue 24 Oct 2017, 2:09 pm

I believe The Archbishop Of Canterbury voted Remain, but I'm fed up with his holier-than-thou attitude.

by **rIck_dAgless** Tue 24 Oct 2017, 2:11 pm

Sponge bob square pants voted Remain, but I'm fed up with his holier-than-thou attitude.

by **rIck_dAgless** Tue 24 Oct 2017, 2:12 pm

Vincent Van Gogh voted Remain, but I'm fed up with his Whole-Ear-For-Thou attitude

by LionsV2 Tue 24 Oct 2017, 2:15 pm

Looks like the whole gang is turning up, you flatter me too much.

by Steffan Tue 24 Oct 2017, 2:18 pm

LionsV2 wrote:Looks like the whole gang is turning up

And not one of us bureaucrats was elected

by **rIck_dAgless** Tue 24 Oct 2017, 2:18 pm

I take pride in my puns...

by **JuliusHMarx** Tue 24 Oct 2017, 2:21 pm

rick_dagless wrote:I take pride in my puns...

Very good rick. You're the mane man!

by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 26 Oct 2017, 10:52 am

ICM poll.............

What kind of impact do you think Brexit will have on the Economy ??.

Positive 30%
Negative 46%
No difference 13%
Don't know 11%

What impact do you think Brexit will have on your finances ??

Positive 13%
Negative 35%
No difference 38%
Don't know 14%

Depressing poll...

by Scottrf Thu 26 Oct 2017, 10:53 am

A lot of people who don't think the general economy impacts their finances then.

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 07 Nov 2017, 3:03 pm

(ORB....)

Do you approve of the way the Govt is handling Brexit ??

Yes 34%
No 66%..............

May approval rating -21 but still regarded by a sizeable number of her members as more suitable than her potential successors.....

53 billion bill ???.......Surely she can't survive that..... one would think..

But Theresa May limps on and so does the UK.

by LionsV2 Tue 07 Nov 2017, 3:08 pm

She survives for as long as Corbyn is the Labour leader.

by Samo Tue 07 Nov 2017, 4:27 pm

May isnt going anywhere because she is a puppet of a PM. Both Johnson and Patel have commited stone cold sackable offences recently. Either A. May doesnt have the bottle to sack them. B. She's too incompetent to sack them, or C. someone else is pulling the strings in the background.

by LionsV2 Tue 07 Nov 2017, 4:38 pm

Samo wrote:May isnt going anywhere because she is a puppet of a PM. Both Johnson and Patel have commited stone cold sackable offences recently. Either A. May doesnt have the bottle to sack them. B. She's too incompetent to sack them, or C. someone else is pulling the strings in the background.

Or D. they're both prominent Brexiteers and p1ssing off the members is a bad idea.

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