Ulster Rugby 2017-18

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Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by Pot Hale on Mon 1 Jan 2018 - 18:25

First topic message reminder :

Jeez - O’Donoghue eeled his way through that maul and caught Herring.


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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by rodders on Wed 10 Jan 2018 - 16:52

geoff999rugby wrote:
rodders wrote:I see Payne has been replaced by McPhillips in the Champions cup squad.

What does that tell you - Ulster consider a player in decline, who will probably retire this summer, whose best position is one with depth at Ulster and who is out for 8 weeks
to be more valuable to the squad this year
than a player who is the best 13 in Ireland and whose best position is one lacking depth at Ulster

More proof that Payne is finished.

Maybe Ulster just expect to make the ERC final and Bowe has more chance of being back by then than Payne?
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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by Pete330v2 on Wed 10 Jan 2018 - 17:22

Lima Sopoaga heading to Wasps it seems. Must have taken advice from Charlie boy.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Wed 10 Jan 2018 - 18:23

rodders wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:
rodders wrote:I see Payne has been replaced by McPhillips in the Champions cup squad.

What does that tell you - Ulster consider a player in decline, who will probably retire this summer, whose best position is one with depth at Ulster and who is out for 8 weeks
to be more valuable to the squad this year
than a player who is the best 13 in Ireland and whose best position is one lacking depth at Ulster

More proof that Payne is finished.

Maybe Ulster just expect to make the ERC final and Bowe has more chance of being back by then than Payne?  

Do you honestly think a player who has been out for a year with headaches, which no one can identify why will return ?
Not least because he will be looking for a new contract - he will be uninsurable.
That in large part is what finally did for Ferris

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Wed 10 Jan 2018 - 18:27

The Great Aukster wrote:Baldrick Cunningplan has excelled himself yet again, by signing the stellar RWC winning All Black - just the man to get the season tickets flying off the shelf, while not blocking the development of depth at Ulster in any way shape or form at all at all. Apparently he's taking a big hit in wages as he's hoping Nelson might teach him how to run a game...

There is a fundamentally misunderstanding here.

Cunningham was told to get a short term contract 10 in the summer.
Cunningham was told to get a short term contract 10 in December.

In neither case was it his decision to bring in NIQ players over the heads of the youngsters.
Given the narrowest of the remits who do you think he should of got.
Giteau said NO - probably because Toulon will offer more and play at a higher level.
Nothing Cunningham can do about that

Nothing to do with STs everything to do with the instance of the DoR backup by the CEO.
Over and above that McPhillips may well be worth a shot but pray tell who would go to 10 if we did not sign Donald and McPhillips got injured ???

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by SecretFly on Wed 10 Jan 2018 - 20:56

geoff999rugby wrote:
rodders wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:
rodders wrote:I see Payne has been replaced by McPhillips in the Champions cup squad.

What does that tell you - Ulster consider a player in decline, who will probably retire this summer, whose best position is one with depth at Ulster and who is out for 8 weeks
to be more valuable to the squad this year
than a player who is the best 13 in Ireland and whose best position is one lacking depth at Ulster

More proof that Payne is finished.

Maybe Ulster just expect to make the ERC final and Bowe has more chance of being back by then than Payne?  

Do you honestly think a player who has been out for a year with headaches, which no one can identify why will return ?
Not least because he will be looking for a new contract - he will be uninsurable.
That in large part is what finally did for Ferris

Geoff, are you a Motivational Coach as your daytime job?

Don't kill me - only kidding... Hug

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by neilthom7 on Wed 10 Jan 2018 - 20:57

The Great Aukster wrote:Baldrick Cunningplan has excelled himself yet again, by signing the stellar RWC winning All Black - just the man to get the season tickets flying off the shelf, while not blocking the development of depth at Ulster in any way shape or form at all at all. Apparently he's taking a big hit in wages as he's hoping Nelson might teach him how to run a game...

You seem to have a real dislike for Cunningham Aukster but to be fair to the guy Donald is probably the best he could of got.

It wouldn't be solely his decision that we need a ten to cover the rest of the season, I imagine the DOR would be the man who would decide that then pitch it to Cunningham and/or the CEO.

He would then have to recruit someone who is available immediately (ish) on a short term deal, barring giteu and cooper there is really no one else out there and cooper would be too hard to handle.

Donald will be very useful, we can still play McPhillips and see how he goes but if he turns out to be not up to it or gets injured we have a reliable safety net.

We can then go out and get a proper 10 in the summer when people are available.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by The Great Aukster on Wed 10 Jan 2018 - 22:38

neilthom7 wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:Baldrick Cunningplan has excelled himself yet again, by signing the stellar RWC winning All Black - just the man to get the season tickets flying off the shelf, while not blocking the development of depth at Ulster in any way shape or form at all at all. Apparently he's taking a big hit in wages as he's hoping Nelson might teach him how to run a game...

You seem to have a real dislike for Cunningham Aukster but to be fair to the guy Donald is probably the best he could of got.

It wouldn't be solely his decision that we need a ten to cover the rest of the season, I imagine the DOR would be the man who would decide that then pitch it to Cunningham and/or the CEO.

He would then have to recruit someone who is available immediately (ish) on a short term deal, barring giteu and cooper there is really no one else out there and cooper would be too hard to handle.  

Donald will be very useful, we can still play McPhillips and see how he goes but if he turns out to be not up to it or gets injured we have a reliable safety net.

We can then go out and get a proper 10 in the summer when people are available.

Not at all. Cunningham is a through and through Ulsterman and a really decent bloke in person. It's not the man in question but rather his ability to do the job.
He has been in his current role for four years and the quality of the squad has gone south. If Ulster recruitment is dictated by Kiss then what does Bryn actually do - what his master tells him just like Baldrick?

The succession plan was discussed on this forum when it was obvious that Pienaar was leaving and he was the back-up to Jackson. With Ruan leaving Ulster should have been signing a flyhalf replacement, as having only one experienced flyhalf in the squad was madness.

Bryn on Ulsterrugby.com wrote:My core roles include: developing the succession plan of the squad, player retention and recruitment, negotiation of all playing and coaching contracts, Academy functionality and how it feeds into the senior squad. I also manage the overall budget of the professional game.

A big focus of my time at present is looking at the strategy of the organisation over the next 3-5-year period, which will hopefully commence formally within the next few months.

He says a core role of his is developing the succession plan of the squad, yet he recruits two short term signings when Ulster needed a full time player from the start of this season. The absence of that player has been shown up to be stupidity of the highest order because surprise surprise Jackson isn't available. Maybe Baldrick has ditched his job spec and has to do what Black Les tells him but bringing a mediocre Donald in to stymie the succession plan shows his words are just lip service or alternatively he has no authority to implement anything.
Either way if the currently ineffectual Cunningplan is given the responsibility for STRATEGY over the next 3-5 years, Ulster Rugby are nowhere near rock bottom yet.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by The Great Aukster on Wed 10 Jan 2018 - 23:02

geoff999rugby wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:Baldrick Cunningplan has excelled himself yet again, by signing the stellar RWC winning All Black - just the man to get the season tickets flying off the shelf, while not blocking the development of depth at Ulster in any way shape or form at all at all. Apparently he's taking a big hit in wages as he's hoping Nelson might teach him how to run a game...

There is a fundamentally misunderstanding here.

Cunningham was told to get a short term contract 10 in the summer.
Cunningham was told to get a short term contract 10 in December.

In neither case was it his decision to bring in NIQ players over the heads of the youngsters.
Given the narrowest of the remits who do you think he should of got.
Giteau said NO - probably because Toulon will offer more and play at a higher level.
Nothing Cunningham can do about that

Nothing to do with STs everything to do with the instance of the DoR backup by the CEO.
Over and above that McPhillips may well be worth a shot but pray tell who would go to 10 if we did not sign Donald and McPhillips got injured ???

Sorry Geoff missed this above.
The season ticket reference was a nod to the Piutau signing who was supposedly signed to sell seats and Bryn had no say in it.

Your question was asked last season - who would go to 10 if Jackson got injured or was away on Test duty? Ulster did not plan to sign anyone so the powers that be must have felt they had enough cover between Herron, Nelson, McPhillips and Curtis (+ Cooney).
Can you really see Ulster signing Donald and not using him at every possible opportunity (as they have with Lealiifano)? There is no guarantee he will settle into the squad and be any more effective than say McPhillips or Nelson. If McPhillips had been at say Leinster or Connacht he would have had a dozen caps by now and at least be further down the road of knowing if he was going to make the grade. As it is Ulster spurn the opportunity to develop long term depth by trying to fool the gullible fans that this signing will somehow rejuvenate a season that is going nowhere fast.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by marty2086 on Thu 11 Jan 2018 - 9:14

The Great Aukster wrote:If McPhillips had been at say Leinster or Connacht he would have had a dozen caps by now and at least be further down the road of knowing if he was going to make the grade. As it is Ulster spurn the opportunity to develop long term depth by trying to fool the gullible fans that this signing will somehow rejuvenate a season that is going nowhere fast.

Did McPhillips not miss the first half of this season through injury?

As for the Leinster and Connacht comment, Cathal Marsh made his debut just under 5 years ago and has a grand total of 26 caps. When Connacht needed a fly half last season did they give a young play a chance? No, they first tried to bring Pat Lams son in to cover then when the IRFU said no they moved Cooney to 10

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by marty2086 on Thu 11 Jan 2018 - 9:18

geoff999rugby wrote:
Do you honestly think a player who has been out for a year with headaches, which no one can identify why will return ?
Not least because he will be looking for a new contract - he will be uninsurable.
That in large part is what finally did for Ferris

geoff, in the recent interviews when talking about Payne the staff have said it's related to workload and given the medical name for the problem was that just guesswork and they're still trying to get to the bottom of it?

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Thu 11 Jan 2018 - 10:04

Marty one thing I have learnt in the Logan years in not to believe any official statements and
that there is an oppressive determination to make sure everyone stays on message
Bullsh!t is the name of the game.

All I can say is, privately, there are many who believe he will not be here next year
As I said he could be entering the uninsurable category

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by neilthom7 on Thu 11 Jan 2018 - 10:06

It may be a case of knowing what it is (cervicogenic headache I think they said) but not being able to stop them.
If what I have read is correct this is a headache brought on by a problem elsewhere in the spinal region/neck.
This would then be fixed by treating that problem, so if his headaches are still persisting then it would lead me to believe that either they can't find the source or have found the source and can't/have not treated it properly.
Now I have no medical expertise so I could be wrong.
Geoff however makes a good point if he keeps getting the headaches he would never get insurance and would by proxy not be able to play even if he wanted to.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Thu 11 Jan 2018 - 10:15

The Great Aukster wrote: Your question was asked last season - who would go to 10 if Jackson got injured or was away on Test duty? Ulster did not plan to sign anyone so the powers that be must have felt they had enough cover between Herron, Nelson, McPhillips and Curtis (+ Cooney).  
Last year we had Pienaer.
If it wasn't for the court case we would not have been allowed to sign a NIQ 10 in the summer, or possible we would have signed a Project 10 instead of a backrower
The club did not start looking for a 10 until there realised a court case was likely - fingers were crossed that it would be dropped in the summer

The Great Aukster wrote:Can you really see Ulster signing Donald and not using him at every possible opportunity (as they have with Lealiifano)?  
Of course they will play him my point is they needed to play him because they could not play McPhillips week in week out and risk having no one to play if he got injured
Nelson is not a 10 and never has been and he knows that himself
Lowry is inured
Curtis is not ready
Herron is a break glass option and nowhere near good enough
Without CL or Doanld here - Cooney would go to 10 if McPhillips got injured

The Great Aukster wrote:There is no guarantee he will settle into the squad and be any more effective than say McPhillips or Nelson.  
I think there is - Nelson is never a 10 and Donald is a wee bit more experienced than McPhillips
McPhillips will get game time as Donald tires and will hopefully learn from him
I am not a big Donald fan but absolutely see why he has been signed

The Great Aukster wrote:If McPhillips had been at say Leinster or Connacht he would have had a dozen caps by now and at least be further down the road of knowing if he was going to make the grade. As it is Ulster spurn the opportunity to develop long term depth by trying to fool the gullible fans that this signing will somehow rejuvenate a season that is going nowhere fast.  
He may well have a lot of caps - tell Kiss not Cunningham he picks the team.
In fairness though we have seen far more youngsters this year than in previous years

Overall though this mess is not of Cunninghams making and given the remit he was given has done as well as anyone could reasonably expect signing CL and Donald

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Thu 11 Jan 2018 - 10:30

The Great Aukster wrote:  Not at all. Cunningham is a through and through Ulsterman and a really decent bloke in person. It's not the man in question but rather his ability to do the job.
He has been in his current role for four years and the quality of the squad has gone south. If Ulster recruitment is dictated by Kiss then what does Bryn actually do

He says a core role of his is developing the succession plan of the squad, yet he recruits two short term signings when Ulster needed a full time player from the start of this season. The absence of that player has been shown up to be stupidity of the highest order because surprise surprise Jackson isn't available. Either way if the currently ineffectual Cunningplan is given the responsibility for STRATEGY over the next 3-5 years, Ulster Rugby are nowhere near rock bottom yet.

Cunninghams role is to negotiate contracts and sign new players.
Who he is signs is sometimes left to him and sometimes dictated by others.
The club may spout bullsh!t about 3 to 5 years - in practise it is 1 -3 tops.
Cunningham was responsible for Coetzee (the serious injury occurred after contracts signed - not his fault) and the resigning of the likes of Treadwell etc
Cunningham was responsible for Murphy and Moore (albeit the presence of Gibbes clearly helped)
Kiss was responsible for Deysel (panicked after Botha was a no go)
For CL Cunningham was told to get a short term 10 to cover till January - the club crossed fingers there would be no trial
There is a trial and so he was told get another short term 10
The decision to sign short term 10s was also,in part, dictated because, as mentioned above, we would not be have been allowed to sign a NIE 10 last summer.
It was also in part because of commercial consideration, from Logan, of not wanting to give up on Jackson.
So to honest the situation we are in regarding this is , in large part, of his making, not Cunninghams.
Who they are is down to Cunningham, why they have come at all and under what circumstances is Not.
As we know Logan has previous in this regard - Piatau. Excellent player but very expensive and not what we needed at the time.
The Commercial side keeping out of player recruitment would be a good step

Don't get me wrong Cunningham makes mistakes - vDM is a complete turkey, if, as seems likely it was down to him.
However take that terrible error away and overall his record is not bad.


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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Thu 11 Jan 2018 - 10:34

SecretFly wrote: Geoff, are you a Motivational Coach as your daytime job?

Don't kill me - only kidding... Hug

I know how it sounds.

My anger is that the club I have been connected with is going down the tube and it comes from total mismanagement and it comes from the very top

The boards - particularly that complete basta&d Cedric Wilson are a waste of space
Logan is killing the lifeblood out of the club
Kiss is not fit for purpose
We need a complete clear out but no one to action it

Not just me - there are many senior and ex players who feel the same

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by marty2086 on Thu 11 Jan 2018 - 10:42

The current setup seem more proactive in terms of forward planning than the previous one, from Bryn signing players in positions we need covered to Willie Anderson talking about what hes being asked to look for in bringing players into the academy. These don't seem to have been the case until recently

In terms of recent signings I doubt Cunningham would have signed the likes of vDM or Deysel without talking to someone with some perceived knowledge of a forwards role, since they were signed during last season Im guessing that would be Clarke or would Gibbes have been brought into that process back then?

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Thu 11 Jan 2018 - 11:03

Deysel was a panic buy initiated by Kiss with the IRFU suggesting it as a good swap.
As I said vDM I don't know but I get your point - I don't think Clarke had anything to do with it
Much as I would love to blame him !

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by marty2086 on Thu 11 Jan 2018 - 11:12

Plenty thought Deysel was a good signing at the time, me included, he looked powerful in his stint at Munster and had the hard edge that Ulster needed. He just seems like he's lost that edge since he came to Ulster

I mentioned Clarke as the guy to say vDM was the guy to sign because it would be a good way for screwing over those who showed him the door


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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by neilthom7 on Thu 11 Jan 2018 - 11:20

It occurs to me that part of the reason Cunningham is there is because Ulster have a Director of Rugby who isn't really a Director of rugby.
The club structure should probably look something like this
Board- Responsible for evaluating the job of the CEO and hiring and firing CEO
CEO- Responsible for day to day running of the club including commercial side where they would likely be heavily involved, hiring and firing of DOR and setting budgets etc.
DOR- Responsible for the rugby matters at the club, has overview on rugby structure, scouting, academy, club rugby and development of the game. Makes recommendations in terms of hiring/firing of the head coach to the CEO, negotiates players contracts and plans succession (with the help of the coaches and within the confines of the CEO's budget)
Head Coach- Coach the team, picks the team, gives advice to DOR about what players we need and what the current squad looks like, picks his coaching staff and works with DOR to get these on board.

It seems like we used to have it this way it would be Logan > Humphreys > Whichever coach was there at the time but since Humphreys left it hasn't been that way.
The club structure would work much better if it was like that once again in my opinion, off course you would also need the right people

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Thu 11 Jan 2018 - 12:09

Neil spot on the structure is a mess with unclear lines of responsibility.

Cunningham does not have the same power as Humphreys had
His powers are divided with Logan, Kiss and himself having a slice.
Makes for a shambles

I never thought Deysel was a good signing - too many Munster men told me why they didn't need him

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by marty2086 on Thu 11 Jan 2018 - 12:12

neil, why should it be like that?

Different clubs have different structures, I was just reading last week that Humphreys role had changed at Gloucester with Ackermann coming in. London Irish have Nick Kennedy as DoR and he coaches, Brendan Venter is there too as a technical director. Leicester Tigers have a head coach and Director of Rugby operations but their CEO does the recruitment. Rob Baxter has only become DoR at Exeter this season but I doubt his role has changed much.

The biggest problem with the structure is who runs training, if Gibbes is head coach then it should be him but if his boss is part of the coaching team then can/does he take charge at times? Does he allow Gibbes his place? Do the players run to one if they don't like something the other tells them to do?

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Thu 11 Jan 2018 - 12:17

It doesn't have to be same as when Humphreys was here but at the same time responsibilities need to be clear.
At the moment it is a hotch potch and a total shambles

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by marty2086 on Thu 11 Jan 2018 - 12:17

geoff999rugby wrote:
I never thought Deysel was a good signing - too many Munster men told me why they didn't need him

Was that because of what they had available or because he wasn't good enough? With the likes of O'Donnaghue, Oliver did they need him there blocking these guys?

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by SecretFly on Thu 11 Jan 2018 - 12:26

I never liked the idea of non-coaching leaders - be they team 'tactics/statergy' or player buying ones.  
If you can't coach, don't DOR.  
If you don't want to coach but can coach... get the hell out of rugby and stop trying to sit on the fence.  
If you can coach, want to coach but don't want to be seen to be DOR................. well, just insist on people calling you 'coach' -and have assistants help you with the office work, like in the good old days. Wink

Much too many 'chief' titles at the top of modern Professional rugby:  
Owner/
DOR/
Head Coach/
Training Field Head Coach/
Real Training Field Head Coach/
Coach the players actually want to lead them/
Team Captain(Often Motivational Head Coach)

Get rid of the two on the top with no 'coach' in the title. Whistle

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Thu 11 Jan 2018 - 12:34

marty2086 wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:
I never thought Deysel was a good signing - too many Munster men told me why they didn't need him

Was that because of what they had available or because he wasn't good enough? With the likes of O'Donnaghue, Oliver did they need him there blocking these guys?

Bit of both

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by marty2086 on Thu 11 Jan 2018 - 12:40

Why are the A team playing a B&I Cup game at 5pm tomorrow night? Are Ulster responsible for arranging that? Someone needs a good shake

Anyway the teams been announced and gives a few hints on the make up for La Rochelle

Ulster A team to play Cornish Pirates, Friday 12th January at Shaw's Bridge, 5.00pm:

(1-8): Tommy O'Hagan, John Andrew (Capt), Ross Kane, Peter Browne, Clive Ross, Caleb Montgomery, Matthew Agnew, Marcus Rea;
(9-15): Jonny Stewart, Peter Nelson, Aaron Cairns, Rory Butler, Callum Patterson, Rob Lyttle, Jack Owens.

Replacements: Zack McCall, Tom O'Toole, Eric O'Sullivan, John McCusker, David Shanahan, Chris Swash, Angus Kernohan.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by neilthom7 on Thu 11 Jan 2018 - 13:27

It doesn't have to be exactly that way however you have to remember Ulster are different from all those other clubs.
Exeter chiefs structure deals solely with the exeter pro team and academy, same with Leicester etc
Ulster Rugby deals with the Ulster pro team and rugby across Ulster such as the clubs. This is where the Director of rugby could be useful to manage rugby across the province, to oversee it so that the pro team can benefit from it.
As Geoff said there is too much overlap within the structure at the minute and we have a DOR who is really a head coach.
My personal feelings is that the structure or something similar I mentioned would be most suitable to Ulster rugby, that is just my opinion of course.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by marty2086 on Thu 11 Jan 2018 - 14:02

I'm not disagreeing, I don't know who has what exact responsibilities within the setup though. The only job description I can find is Bryns and his Operations Director description is the same from the press release when he was appointed team manager. The interview he gave last week though seems to have additional responsibilities

My core roles include: developing the succession plan of the squad, player retention and recruitment, negotiation of all playing and coaching contracts, Academy functionality and how it feeds into the senior squad. I also manage the overall budget of the professional game

The academy functionality part is new and from other reports is an overlap with Kiss.

The setup was created following a review after Humphreys left, who it was done by we weren't told but if a review said we needed a Team Manager, DoR and Head Coach it may be the case but somewhere along the way that changed or the lines were allowed to be blared between the roles.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Thu 11 Jan 2018 - 14:17

marty2086 wrote:I'm not disagreeing, I don't know who has what exact responsibilities within the setup though. .

Neither do they - that's the problem

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by Redman on Thu 11 Jan 2018 - 14:38

The structure is symptomatic of how we pick players.  In all the wrong positions.  

So we have a CEO who doesn't look at the rugby, coaching or recruitment
We have a Director of Rugby who doesn't do implementation of recruitment (not sure how he can oversee the tactical plan if he doesn't have some input into who he gets in)
We have an Operations Director who does do contracts and recruitment implementation
We have a Head Coach who according to the other forum sticks exclusively to coaching the forwards
We don't have a Defence Coach

The reality turns out to be :

The DoR is a part time Defence Coach and acting Head Coach
Our Head Coach wants to be the Forwards Coach
We have our Operations Manager who we have no idea what he wants to be
And we still have a CEO who wants out of the organisation altogether.

If started out with a blank slate with those 4 people, you'd go Logan - CEO, Bryn - DoR, Kiss - Head Coach, Gibbs - Forwards Coach.  Thought ideally you'd bin Kiss and potentially Logan saying he's taken Ulster as far as he can (and does deserive credit on the commercial side).


Last edited by Redman on Thu 11 Jan 2018 - 14:39; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Spelling)

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by SecretFly on Thu 11 Jan 2018 - 14:39

marty2086 wrote:I'm not disagreeing, I don't know who has what exact responsibilities within the setup though. The only job description I can find is Bryns and his Operations Director description is the same from the press release when he was appointed team manager. The interview he gave last week though seems to have additional responsibilities

My core roles include: developing the succession plan of the squad, player retention and recruitment, negotiation of all playing and coaching contracts, Academy functionality and how it feeds into the senior squad. I also manage the overall budget of the professional game

The academy functionality part is new and from other reports is an overlap with Kiss.

The setup was created following a review after Humphreys left, who it was done by we weren't told but if a review said we needed a Team Manager, DoR and Head Coach it may be the case but somewhere along the way that changed or the lines were allowed to be blared between the roles.

Shouldn't a 'team manager' simply be the guy that oversees the logistics of what a team does in a year.... getting transportation right, getting hotels or training facilities right, organising paperwork...organising CORRECT VISA REQUIREMENTS for squad players going to places like maybe................em...South Africa?  mad  picard Whistle

But seriously, that's my view of a team 'manager' if there is already a DOR and Head Coach involved.  I don't understand why a Team Manager would be responsible for the actual ethos, team strategies, academy supply lines, player choosing and buying role.  They should do the bookwork, yes.  They should be the guy on the end of the phone to get the practicalities of policy operating; ...but shouldn't their role be merely as a facilitator to a DOR (if there is one) and/or the Head Coach?
Maybe the guy mentioned and quoted above is only guilty of over-selling his role (in print) as all workers tend to do if given the opportunity or microphone.  Maybe he's simply in charge of all the logistics around the topics he mentions rather than being in charge of the actual decisions made in each sector?

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by rodders on Thu 11 Jan 2018 - 15:25

So basically irrespective of titles:-

Bryn Cunningham is DoR, Kiss is Head coach, Peel Backs coach, Gibbs forwards coach and Sparky is the defense coach.

Nucifera is the bogey man and Logan the scarlet pimpernel.

Did I miss anyone?
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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by SecretFly on Thu 11 Jan 2018 - 15:27

Laugh

The Wonderful World of Dis...IRFU!

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by neilthom7 on Thu 11 Jan 2018 - 16:33

rodders wrote:So basically irrespective of titles:-

Bryn Cunningham is DoR, Kiss is Head coach, Peel Backs coach, Gibbs forwards coach and Sparky is the defense coach.

Nucifera is the bogey man and Logan the scarlet pimpernel.  

Did I miss anyone?

We wish Sparky was was the defence coach Very Happy

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by rodders on Thu 11 Jan 2018 - 16:54

neilthom7 wrote:
rodders wrote:So basically irrespective of titles:-

Bryn Cunningham is DoR, Kiss is Head coach, Peel Backs coach, Gibbs forwards coach and Sparky is the defense coach.

Nucifera is the bogey man and Logan the scarlet pimpernel.  

Did I miss anyone?

We wish Sparky was was the defence coach Very Happy

Sparky would have saved at least 3 of those tries at Leinster.
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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by Redman on Thu 11 Jan 2018 - 19:11

rodders wrote:
neilthom7 wrote:
rodders wrote:So basically irrespective of titles:-

Bryn Cunningham is DoR, Kiss is Head coach, Peel Backs coach, Gibbs forwards coach and Sparky is the defense coach.

Nucifera is the bogey man and Logan the scarlet pimpernel.  

Did I miss anyone?

We wish Sparky was was the defence coach Very Happy

Sparky would have saved at least 3 of those tries at Leinster.



We can only dream of this level of professionalism from the general player pool.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by Pete330v2 on Fri 12 Jan 2018 - 10:14

The KOTH fella, who has all the inside info and does seem to be one of the few on t'other place that have some real rugby knowledge has raised a valid point on there. That point being that despite the fact we've all been berating Ulster's defence, and rightly so, we're not highlighting how blunt we've been in attack. He's putting this down to Peel, and I quote:

"Uster are playing a winger in the centre, a winger at fullback, a centre at outhalf (will give that one a bye ball).
Peel is picking the backline,that is FACT. For me he doesn’t know his Brennan from his elbow."


Brennan is the t'other forum's word for ar$£....

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by clivemcl on Fri 12 Jan 2018 - 10:20

ah FFS, I'm fed up with this chat. Is there anyone at UR who hasn't been criticised? Is anyone actually thought of highly?

Seems Gibbes gets off fairly lightly, but seriously, you could get rid of Logan, Cunningham, Kiss, Peel and then a season of inadequacy later everyone then says Gibbes is the problem.

I've said it before. It's interesting to hear everyone's thoughts and opinions but.... can it really be EVERYONE's fault?

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by clivemcl on Fri 12 Jan 2018 - 10:21

I'll tell you what, you have to be wondering how Doak is feeling watching this season unfolding.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by marty2086 on Fri 12 Jan 2018 - 10:25

Pete330v2 wrote:The KOTH fella, who has all the inside info and does seem to be one of the few on t'other place that have some real rugby knowledge has raised a valid point on there. That point being that despite the fact we've all been berating Ulster's defence, and rightly so, we're not highlighting how blunt we've been in attack. He's putting this down to Peel, and I quote:

"Uster are playing a winger in the centre, a winger at fullback, a centre at outhalf (will give that one a bye ball).
Peel is picking the backline,that is FACT. For me he doesn’t know his Brennan from his elbow."


Brennan is the t'other forum's word for ar$£....

The winger at fullback bit I don't think Peel can take the blame for since Piutau was playing most of his games last season there and he was deployed there and in the centre at Wasps and was lethal from both positions


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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by marty2086 on Fri 12 Jan 2018 - 10:27

clivemcl wrote:ah FFS, I'm fed up with this chat. Is there anyone at UR who hasn't been criticised? Is anyone actually thought of highly?

Seems Gibbes gets off fairly lightly, but seriously, you could get rid of Logan, Cunningham, Kiss, Peel and then a season of inadequacy later everyone then says Gibbes is the problem.

I've said it before. It's interesting to hear everyone's thoughts and opinions but.... can it really be EVERYONE's fault?

Well if Logan is incompetent then it's not a far stretch to say he'd end up hiring someone else who is and it becomes part of a cycle Whistle

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by clivemcl on Fri 12 Jan 2018 - 10:29

True, whats the realistic chances of Logan going though? Is there even any real pressure on him? Any pressure seems to be on Kiss. Whose departure will be of no use if Logan decides to hire another dud in his place.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by marty2086 on Fri 12 Jan 2018 - 10:34

Well it would seem Kiss isn't doing anything at the club since he's not picking the team, he's not doing recruitment, not looking after the academy and seemingly not coaching the defence so maybe they should get rid of Kiss and save a few quid

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by rodders on Fri 12 Jan 2018 - 10:46

clivemcl wrote:ah FFS, I'm fed up with this chat. Is there anyone at UR who hasn't been criticised?

Sparky.
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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by Redman on Fri 12 Jan 2018 - 11:02

clivemcl wrote:ah FFS, I'm fed up with this chat. Is there anyone at UR who hasn't been criticised?

Maybe it's our fault? Hang your heads in shame guys.

On the point about Logan, no pressure on him as far as I know but I did hear somewhere that he was looking for a way out. Potentially into the political arena. And again completely unsubstantiated but that he has form with jumping ship before everything falls apart. Must have read that either on the other forum or on Planet Rugby.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by Pete330v2 on Fri 12 Jan 2018 - 11:16

"ah FFS, I'm fed up with this chat. Is there anyone at UR who hasn't been criticised? Is anyone actually thought of highly?"

Jebus Clive, you're on the wrong site if you're looking for the 'Ulster are Brill' brigade. I suggest Bakebook for that Smile

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by marty2086 on Fri 12 Jan 2018 - 11:25

Pete330v2 wrote:"ah FFS, I'm fed up with this chat. Is there anyone at UR who hasn't been criticised? Is anyone actually thought of highly?"

Jebus Clive, you're on the wrong site if you're looking for the 'Ulster are Brill' brigade. I suggest Bakebook for that Smile

Bakebook makes this please look like the Kiss/Logan appreciation society

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by Redman on Fri 12 Jan 2018 - 11:32

Pete330v2 wrote:The KOTH fella, who has all the inside info and does seem to be one of the few on t'other place that have some real rugby knowledge has raised a valid point on there. That point being that despite the fact we've all been berating Ulster's defence, and rightly so, we're not highlighting how blunt we've been in attack. He's putting this down to Peel, and I quote:

"Uster are playing a winger in the centre, a winger at fullback, a centre at outhalf (will give that one a bye ball).
Peel is picking the backline,that is FACT. For me he doesn’t know his Brennan from his elbow."


Brennan is the t'other forum's word for ar$£....

While KOTH is well informed, I'm less convinced on his analysis for 1 simple reason - He wanted rid of Johnny Bell and said good riddance when he left for Gloucester. At the time I thought that was foolish when our defense seemed fine and the problem was Clarke and Doak.

On the issue of attack, we've looked inept for a while now. To pretend Doak had the backline purring is simply untrue. On top of that McCloskey is our chief carrier (and hasn't been anywhere near as bad as some people claim given he's expected to fill in as an extra backrower). When you're trying to break the gainline from 12 because you're forwards can't make any headway then you can forget any fancy moves in the back division.
Also, are we scoring less tries than say last season? People can't say that we're letting in an average of 20 odd points but then beat (albeit weaker) teams by out scoring them.

We're 5th in terms of points scored in the Pro14, and 5th in terms of points scored in the ECC. With the pack we've got at the moment that doesn't look terrible.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by marty2086 on Fri 12 Jan 2018 - 12:12

We're doomed! We're doomed!

Ulster Rugby team to play La Rochelle, Champions Cup, Saturday 13th January, Kingspan Stadium, kick-off 1.00pm:
(15-9): C Piutau; C Gilroy, L Ludik, S McCloskey, J Stockdale; C Lealiifano, J Cooney;
(1-8): C Black, R Best (captain), R Ah You, A O'Connor, I Henderson, M Rea, S Reidy, N Timoney;
Replacements (16-23): R Herring, K McCall, R Kane, K Treadwell, C Henry, D Shanahan, J McPhillips, D Cave.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Fri 12 Jan 2018 - 12:19

I'm with Redman KOTH is well informed but his judgement is often poor
I don't believe him re Peel - Kiss picks the team
(Peel may well make suggestions but Kiss decides)

Not a bad team but Ludik at 13 is a concern and Henderson should be instead of Rea with Treadwell in the row

I see our soft NIQ saffers are missing again Deysel and vDM (what a pair of blowhards furious )


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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

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