My Dad's bigger than your Dad

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My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 05 Nov 2018, 3:39 pm

First topic message reminder :

Date: Saturday 10th November 2018
Time: 15:00
Location: Twickenham Stadium

Referee:       Jerome Garces (France)
Assistant 1:  Jaco Peyper (SA)
Assistant 2:  Marius Mitrea (Italy)
TMO:            Marius Jonker (SA)




Teams


England

[size=42]15 Elliot Daly (Wasps, 22 caps), 14 Chris Ashton (Sale Sharks, 40 caps), 13 Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 14 caps), 12 Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors, 14 caps), 11 Jonny May (Leicester Tigers, 38 caps), 10 Owen Farrell (Saracens, 62 caps) co-captain, 9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 78 caps), 1 Ben Moon (Exeter Chiefs, 1 cap), 2 Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints, 94 caps) co-captain, 3 Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 14 caps), 4 Maro Itoje (Saracens, 23 caps), 5 George Kruis (Saracens, 26 caps), 6 Brad Shields (Wasps, 3 caps), 7 Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 6 caps), 8 Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons, 5 caps).[/size]
[size=42]Finishers[/size]
[size=42]16 Jamie George (Saracens, 29 caps), 17 Alec Hepburn (Exeter Chiefs, 3 caps), 18 Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs, 12 caps), 19 Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 7 caps), 20 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 65 caps), 21 Danny Care (Harlequins, 82 caps), 22 George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 48 caps), 23 Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 27 caps).[/size]




New Zealand

1. Karl Tu'inukuafe (10)
2. Codie Taylor (39)
3. Owen Franks (104)
4. Samuel Whitelock (106)
5. Brodie Retallick (72)
6. Liam Squire (21) 
7. Ardie Savea (32)
8. Kieran Read - captain (115)
9. Aaron Smith (80)
10. Beauden Barrett (70)
11. Rieko Ioane (21)
12. Sonny Bill Williams (50)
13. Jack Goodhue (5)
14. Ben Smith (74)
15. Damian McKenzie (20)

16. Dane Coles (57)
17. Ofa Tuungafasi (23)
18. Nepo Laulala (14)
19. Scott Barrett (26)
20. Matt Todd (15)
21. TJ Perenara (52)
22. Richie Mo'unga (5)
23. Ryan Crotty (42


Last edited by LondonTiger on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 7:50 pm; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : No-one cares about the game any more. So let's leave this to the bickering tweenagers)

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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by Taylorman on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 6:02 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I'm glad Moody is missing, he's becoming quite the force in the scrum. Don't recall seeing much of this guy starting as I've not seen much Super rugby this year.

Word is Karl T is a better scrummager than even Moody. Certainly a force around the field. Is our promising player of the year nominee, has had a surreal year, a rubbish collecter beginning of the year.

That might be handy this weekend.thumbsup


Last edited by Taylorman on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 6:19 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by Taylorman on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 6:08 pm

rodders wrote:
Taylorman wrote:Oooh,
Someones in trouble... thumbsup The matchday 23 is as follows (with Test caps in brackets):
1. Karl Tu'inukuafe (10)
2. Codie Taylor (39)
3. Owen Franks (104)
4. Samuel Whitelock (106)
5. Brodie Retallick (72)
6. Liam Squire (21)
7. Ardie Savea (32)
8. Kieran Read - captain (115)
9. Aaron Smith (80)
10. Beauden Barrett (70)
11. Rieko Ioane (21)
12. Sonny Bill Williams (50)
13. Jack Goodhue (5)
14. Ben Smith (74)
15. Damian McKenzie (20)

16. Dane Coles (57)
17. Ofa Tuungafasi (23)
18. Nepo Laulala (14)
19. Scott Barrett (26)
20. Matt Todd (15)
21. TJ Perenara (52)
22. Richie Mo'unga (5)
23. Ryan Crotty (42

Looks like a slightly weakened team to me with SBW and McKenzie.

Does that suggest NZ see Dublin next week as the big one and maybe they aren't taking England as seriously?

I think England could spring an upset here.

Amazing. No kiwi would write that looking at this side. Its scary, and you dont even see that.

this is about as strong as it gets. If youre calling that a weak side then you really havent been watching. Agree DMac might be a question mark but SBW is due a big one and Goodhue will be an AB great. That bench is inbelievable. Best side the ABs have fiekded since the world cup final in my opinion. Pack, and its subs is going to be waaaaay to much for England, and probably Ireland. ABs mean business with their prep and selection. Happy to take it back if they lose but this looks, moody aside, like a world cup final side.

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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by George Carlin on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 6:38 pm

Taylorman wrote:
rodders wrote:
Taylorman wrote:Oooh,
Someones in trouble... thumbsup The matchday 23 is as follows (with Test caps in brackets):
1. Karl Tu'inukuafe (10)
2. Codie Taylor (39)
3. Owen Franks (104)
4. Samuel Whitelock (106)
5. Brodie Retallick (72)
6. Liam Squire (21)
7. Ardie Savea (32)
8. Kieran Read - captain (115)
9. Aaron Smith (80)
10. Beauden Barrett (70)
11. Rieko Ioane (21)
12. Sonny Bill Williams (50)
13. Jack Goodhue (5)
14. Ben Smith (74)
15. Damian McKenzie (20)

16. Dane Coles (57)
17. Ofa Tuungafasi (23)
18. Nepo Laulala (14)
19. Scott Barrett (26)
20. Matt Todd (15)
21. TJ Perenara (52)
22. Richie Mo'unga (5)
23. Ryan Crotty (42

Looks like a slightly weakened team to me with SBW and McKenzie.

Does that suggest NZ see Dublin next week as the big one and maybe they aren't taking England as seriously?

I think England could spring an upset here.

Amazing. No kiwi would write that looking at this side. Its scary, and you dont even see that.

this is about as strong as it gets. If youre calling that a weak side then you really havent been watching. Agree DMac might be a question mark but SBW is due a big one and Goodhue will be an AB great. That bench is inbelievable. Best side the ABs have fiekded since the world cup final in my opinion. Pack, and its subs is going to be waaaaay to much for England, and probably Ireland. ABs mean business with their prep and selection. Happy to take it back if they lose but this looks, moody aside, like a world cup final side.
Yes, Goodhue has a complete centre's skillset in the way that Tim Horan did.


If you're not a Crusaders fan you won't know who he is but the kid has fabulous hands.
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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by Taylorman on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 6:53 pm

George Carlin wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
rodders wrote:
Taylorman wrote:Oooh,
Someones in trouble... thumbsup The matchday 23 is as follows (with Test caps in brackets):
1. Karl Tu'inukuafe (10)
2. Codie Taylor (39)
3. Owen Franks (104)
4. Samuel Whitelock (106)
5. Brodie Retallick (72)
6. Liam Squire (21)
7. Ardie Savea (32)
8. Kieran Read - captain (115)
9. Aaron Smith (80)
10. Beauden Barrett (70)
11. Rieko Ioane (21)
12. Sonny Bill Williams (50)
13. Jack Goodhue (5)
14. Ben Smith (74)
15. Damian McKenzie (20)

16. Dane Coles (57)
17. Ofa Tuungafasi (23)
18. Nepo Laulala (14)
19. Scott Barrett (26)
20. Matt Todd (15)
21. TJ Perenara (52)
22. Richie Mo'unga (5)
23. Ryan Crotty (42

Looks like a slightly weakened team to me with SBW and McKenzie.

Does that suggest NZ see Dublin next week as the big one and maybe they aren't taking England as seriously?

I think England could spring an upset here.

Amazing. No kiwi would write that looking at this side. Its scary, and you dont even see that.

this is about as strong as it gets. If youre calling that a weak side then you really havent been watching. Agree DMac might be a question mark but SBW is due a big one and Goodhue will be an AB great. That bench is inbelievable. Best side the ABs have fiekded since the world cup final in my opinion. Pack, and its subs is going to be waaaaay to much for England, and probably Ireland. ABs mean business with their prep and selection. Happy to take it back if they lose but this looks, moody aside, like a world cup final side.
Yes, Goodhue has a complete centre's skillset in the way that Tim Horan did.


If you're not a Crusaders fan you won't know who he is but the kid has fabulous hands.

Yes hes very talented. Ive my doubts about two big centres and probably woukd have put crotty to mix it up but honestly, any bench that can bring on nepo, coles and ofa in the front row has gotta be looking strong. Dmac is there because its the only way hansen can retain barrett at 10 and have smith, barrett, dmac and mo’unga in the same match.

Perenara, crotty and Mo’unga as well? Great bench.

Alan mackie will enjoy todd running on as well, I believe hes related, hence the obvious support. Savea though is having a great year, has really cone on last few months in canes absence.


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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by lostinwales on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 8:37 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
Poorfour wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:Glad to see Underhill start. That guy is class.

This is his chance to show he can translate it to the international stage - so far he hasn't really lived up to his promise, mostly by letting his desire to impress get the better of playing smart him hurt.

I guess his most prominent moment was the try (and match) saving tackle on Scott Williams.

I think he looked like an international from the day one, but could learn a great deal from Robshaw in particular. Tone down the intensity just a tad so that you can keep at that level all game and - as you have pointed out, not get hurt.

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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by Taylorman on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 10:02 pm

Loving this build up...

"Steve Hansen wants the All Blacks to terrorise England with power, speed and daring.

The All Blacks coach has banged his cards on the table by naming a side containing Brodie Retallick as a run-on lock for the first time in two months, Aaron Smith back at halfback, two playmakers in Beauden Barrett at No 10 and Damian McKenzie at fullback, and a fully fit Jack Goodhue at centre.

Barring the absence of loosehead prop Joe Moody, forced to withdraw because of a split eyelid and unavailable for the rest of the tour, this is arguably the strongest team the All Blacks could field at Twickenham on Sunday morning.

You don't pick a side like this if you want to want to bung the ball in the air, and ensure the halfway line is in the rear vision mirror before doing anything adventurous."

This is why we love this side. They take the risks, they have a go, they play the way we want our kids to play. thumbsup

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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 10:38 pm

Hmm, 

1) They have selected that side because it is the strongest available, and will play the game plan that best suits them. If keeping it tight would suit them best, they would do that. 
2) All this crap thrown by them or more often their press against teams kicking is always amusing when more often than not NZ kick more than their opponents. For example they kicked more than each of their last 3 opponents. They just kick better and then capitalise on any loose kicks.

NZ are a side that usually execute their skills better than anyone else. They are not a side that throws the ball about for the sake of it.

The feats of  this side since 2011 should see them lauded as amongst the greatest teams in any sport, yet it is hard to like them when their coach keeps doing his Eddie Jones impression and their press is so obnoxious. He'll they are as bad as us English have ever been.

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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by Taylorman on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 10:47 pm

Well... I read that as a positive... Laugh

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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by Rugby Fan on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 11:08 pm

I don't think the build up by the coaches has been too bad. The only criticism I've heard is by Rupert Cox, the Kiwi presenter on Sky, who thought Hansen and Foster had both been "ungracious" in their comments about Shields. That might just be something a New Zealander is more sensitive too, though, since I havent heard anyone else raise it.

Eddie Jones has a long way to convince his critics in England. The win has pleased everyone but there's still plenty of frustration being vented on social media about his selections. No-one seems to like Ewels and Lawes on the bench, particularly because it knocks Mercer out the squad, who has become a fan favourite in a very short time.

I worry about our midfield. If I understand it correctly, our new defensive system pushes the wings up and leaves Daly and Youngs in the backfield, when we used to have the wings and full back there on a pendulum. If New Zealand break the line at midfield, and get an offload away, they could make hay. Funnily enough, not so different to the try Tuilagi scored against them in 2012, when he fended Dan Carter away.


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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by Taylorman on Thu 08 Nov 2018, 11:28 pm

Do you think the current squad might be a bit tired from their club involvement, something that seems to be the reason for so many injuries?

South Africa certainly did them no favours having them defend like that all day, and the ABs will be looking to rip straight through them, and keep them moving so the subs can up the tempo at 60 minutes.

Theres obviously some steel in this English side as I didnt see them matching SA last week, yet there it is. For one thing a rush defence on the Abs is a must, its the only way they've been beaten lately. Farrell is good at managing that (sometimes too good as he rushes out of line with the others at times)

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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by Rugby Fan on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 12:53 am

Taylorman wrote:Do you think the current squad might be a bit tired from their club involvement, something that seems to be the reason for so many injuries?
It's strange. I've started to see quite a few pundits say, in essence, that England will struggle to win a World Cup, so long as they don't have centrally-contracted players. Undoubtedly, this thinking has been reinforced by the success of Ireland, more so than New Zealand, as the latter are always assumed to be well-organised.

Against, that, I'm not convinced that Jones has properly used the opportunities available to him develop squad depth, which has left us more vulnerable than necessary to the loss of a couple of key players. That's one of the disadvantages of only having a coach for one World Cup cycle, since they only really get to understand the limitations they work under when it's too late to change anything.

For instance, Jones took a full squad to Australia in 2016, when most of those involved in the World Cup needed a break, and proper pre-season. Some might give him a pass on that, though, because the 3-0 win over the Wallabies did a lot to restore squad confidence. What is less forgiveable, is that Jones sent a Saxons team to South Africa at the same time, which came away winning all matches. This should have been the pool of players for Jones to work into his main squad but he didn't look at any of them in the next Autumn internationals, or Six Nations.

Either Jones either blundered in selecting a Saxons squad with no decent propsects, or he blundered in not bringing any of them on a timely fashion. It's probably the latter, since Jones currently has Alec Hepburn and Charlie Ewels in his squad now, and belatedy selected others like Dan Robson, Cipriani and Don Armand when he could have done so earlier. He also had Ewers & Attwood on that tour, who bring  a power option, and Kvesic, who is playing well now, and could have been looked at as a seven when Underhill and the Currys were not available to Jones.

Jones did get an enforced chance to look further afield with the 2017 Argentian tour, since the Lions players were away but there didn't seem to be much joined-up thinking, he left Dan Robson at home only to find he ran out of scrum half options during the next Six Nations. He also immediately selected his Lions players when none had had a proper break since the tour, and compounded that error by taking most of them to South Africa, when the likes of Wales and Ireland were giving leading players the summer off.

Jones might argue that if he doesn't field strong sides, then he'll be attacked for losing. He would probably be right. Then again, his only target is to win a World Cup, so he should have balanced the need for immediate success with the long term development of a rounded, and fit squad. If Itoje hadn't broken his jaw last year, he would have had virtually no time off from rugby since his first cap. As it turned out, he only had a month off. I don't care how young and fit he is, Itoje needs a break but won't get one before the World Cup unless he picks up an injury.

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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by Taylorman on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 1:28 am

Yes interestingly a lot of our players have had injury (or in Goodhues case, illness) layoffs and are just coming back now so although theyre not quite match ready...Karl T, Moody (until re-injury) Retallick, Coles, Laulala, Goodhue, Squire, Sonny Bill are certainly fresh and ready to go which at this time of the year is never the case.

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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by Taylorman on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 1:33 am

Wow, look at the stats at the end of this...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/108475376/revealed-how-the-all-blacks-utilise-their-bench-to-press-home-their-advantage


Had no idea other sides weren't embracing the subs deal to this extent. Crazy stuff. Fresh subs are the key to going the 80

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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by kingelderfield on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 3:46 am

The next england coach should be one of the current premiership heads. McCall, Baxter or possibly Richards or even Young.
Bothwick needs to prove himself as a Head in the premiership first hefore being handed the reins.
Still the sickness which is the Union versus Club weakens us at every step.

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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by yappysnap on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 5:42 am

Anyone know of any streams i can watch this on? Of the free variety

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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by yappysnap on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 5:42 am

Also a pretty good team gor england but i see nothing but a loss for us

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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by kingelderfield on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 6:56 am

Were undoubtedly the underdogs, which ofcourse favours us, however a loss is a loss and we sbhould be number 1

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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 7:42 am

How would you setup the league and england squad then king. I assume the new format that's been announced in the last week doesn't go far enough.

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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by robbo277 on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 8:03 am

A 14 game continental season followed by an 11 test international season / domestic season a la the SH teams would be my shout. That way if a player played every minute, they'd get a maximum of 25 games, but even within that you would expect coaches to manage their resources.

I can say that without any club affiliation. 11 tests is what we get and what I watch now. The club stuff I dip in and out of. But I think something has to give in terms of the amount if rugby these guys are playing and in terms of keeping rugby as a marketable product I think test rugby needs to be preserved.


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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 8:12 am

Wouldn't it be glorious if we got split season. Doubt that could realistically happen though given the 6ns insistence that that stays in Feb March time slot. Cutting a comp could be the way to go but would clubs be happy? Or fans tbh as there's plenty who only watch or prioritise the club. The other would be to possibly harden up the england squad of players to say they play every min for England but a vastly reduced amount for the club ala cricket. I have no doubt we would hear complaints that player s aren't picked on form with that though. You already hear it now.

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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by LondonTiger on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 8:28 am

As someone who goes to club matches, I feel we have far too many international games. 12 this year is, for me, too many while next year will be more.

I do agree that our players play too much. I would cap them at 25 matches, of which 10 can be internationals. However to facilitate this would need reductions in salaries as either income would be reduced (less games) or outgoings increased (bigger squads).

For the international side to flourish you need a strong layer below that.

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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by Irish Londoner on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 8:45 am

kingelderfield wrote:The next england coach should be one of the current premiership heads. McCall, Baxter or possibly Richards or even Young.
Bothwick needs to prove himself as a Head in the premiership first hefore being handed the reins.
Still the sickness which is the Union versus Club weakens us at every step.

Why would McCall take the pay cut ? Very Happy

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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by ebop on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 9:26 am

Is it more prestigious for an English rugby coach to coach a club team? Serious question.
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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 9:31 am

Mccall ain't English.

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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by ebop on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 9:33 am

Not really answering the question
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How many points required to win?

Post by rugby4cast on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 9:34 am

A little bit of analysis for you all. We estimate that for England to have a 50% chance of winning they will need to score at least 33 points. Any less than that and our Algorithm still favours New Zealand. For the AB's they only need to score 22 to have a 50% chance of winning.

Unfortunately for the English, at Twickenham over the last year they only average 18 points against T1 opposition. New Zealand average 36 points away from home against T1.

For some reason I can't seem to upload any images for to show this graphically, so please see here for the details if interested.

https://rugby4cast.com/analysis/england-v-new-zealand/


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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 9:37 am

The answer is yes then. The majority of international jobs are ebop.

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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by ebop on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 10:02 am

McCall sounds like he’d make a good Irish coach and Baxter could be a very good England coach. That’d be a nice outcome. What are the chances of that happening 7.5? These guys have been talked up for several years now.
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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 10:06 am

Depends who applies to each of the respective jobs. Both very good coaches.

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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by Poorfour on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 11:12 am

kingelderfield wrote:The next england coach should be one of the current premiership heads. McCall, Baxter or possibly Richards or even Young.
Bothwick needs to prove himself as a Head in the premiership first hefore being handed the reins.
Still the sickness which is the Union versus Club weakens us at every step.

Completely disagree with this unless you are willing to appoint for an 8 year cycle and tolerate a poor showing in the 2023 RWC. We have seen time and again that coaches who haven't had experience at the RWC don't do well at the RWC unless they have someone who's been there to support them. Woodward needed two goes. Eddie lost one but was then able to help Jake White to win won. Henry needed a second go to get it right, and Hansen was one of his assistants before going on to win one himself. Meanwhile, Ashton, Johnson, Lancaster...

I would be very supportive of a Baxter or McCall moving into the England setup, but only as an assistant until they've had an RWC cycle in the setup.

But if you are looking for a coach with RFU, Premiership and International experience, Conor O'Shea may well want to move on after his cycle with Italy. And he has publicly stated that he would not want to coach Ireland.

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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by Rugby Fan on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 11:41 am

Poorfour wrote:...Completely disagree with this unless you are willing to appoint for an 8 year cycle and tolerate a poor showing in the 2023 RWC...
Why not give the next coach two cycles? It took Graham Henry two to get it right, and the same with Woodward. You don't assume the first cycle is a goner, but allow the coaching team to learn from mistakes.

England may have thrown Johnson in at the deep end too early but he's now lost to English rugby entirely as an asset in any form. The subsequent careers of Lancaster and Farrell indicates they had something to offer. Brian Ashton was widely regarded as one of England's best attack coaches. We paid a pretty penny to Bath to have him rejoin the England set-up, only to promote him out of his competence, and then ditch him in shabby circumstances.


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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 12:13 pm

rugby4cast wrote: Unfortunately for the English, at Twickenham over the last year they only average 18 points against T1 opposition. New Zealand average 36 points away from home against T1.

What a stat that is.

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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by ebop on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 12:13 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:
Poorfour wrote:...Completely disagree with this unless you are willing to appoint for an 8 year cycle and tolerate a poor showing in the 2023 RWC...
Why not give the next coach two cycles? It took Graham Henry two to get it right, and the same with Woodward. You don't assume the first cycle is a goner, but allow the coaching team to learn from mistakes.

England may have thrown Johnson in at the deep end too early but he's now lost to English rugby entirely as an asset in any form. The subsequent careers of Lancaster and Farrell indicates they had something to offer. Brian Ashton was widely regarded as one of England's best attack coaches. We paid a pretty penny to Bath to have him rejoin the England set-up, only to promote him out of his competence, and then ditch him in shabby circumstances.

Good call. It took many rock bottoms for NZR to figure it out. Thought Lancaster was on the right track but faltered when it mattered. Look at Wayne Smith as a similar example when he was head coach. Regarded as one of NZ’s best ever coaches but he went through some pain to get there. NZRs best decision they made was to reappoint the failed coaches after the 2007 disaster. It was a marginal call but I’m grateful they made that decision.
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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 12:56 pm

Why is Eddie Jones whinging about Sexton in his pressers again? Obsessed?

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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by Irish Londoner on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 12:59 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:
Poorfour wrote:...Completely disagree with this unless you are willing to appoint for an 8 year cycle and tolerate a poor showing in the 2023 RWC...
Why not give the next coach two cycles? It took Graham Henry two to get it right, and the same with Woodward. You don't assume the first cycle is a goner, but allow the coaching team to learn from mistakes.

England may have thrown Johnson in at the deep end too early but he's now lost to English rugby entirely as an asset in any form. The subsequent careers of Lancaster and Farrell indicates they had something to offer. Brian Ashton was widely regarded as one of England's best attack coaches. We paid a pretty penny to Bath to have him rejoin the England set-up, only to promote him out of his competence, and then ditch him in shabby circumstances.


I think we'd all agree that Johnson was promoted out of his depth as England coach, and made a few bad calls on the maturity of his players in particular, however I think that for any country to cast aside all that experience and knowledge is a waste - if England have got Will Carling in why not Johnson who's actually won the thing ?

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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 1:11 pm

I would suggest it the same reason as he brings up anything to focus on or switch attention away from somthing. We've heard a lot about ireland half backs wanting protection against what they perceive to be late hits so now jones is putting some attention on new zealand if they decide to pressure Farrell. Just opens up doubts on legality for refs.

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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 1:36 pm

I know it seams really unlikely to a lot of people but I really think this England side are going to rattle New Zealand. They will not lack belief at all I dont think. England win on the cards.

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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by Taylorman on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 1:52 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:I know it seams really unlikely to a lot of people but I really think this England side are going to rattle New Zealand. They will not lack belief at all I dont think. England win on the cards.

Come from wishful thinking or genuine analysis? Where does England look better than this NZ side for example? How will they win this?

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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 2:09 pm

Fast line speed. Pressure the lineout. Keep the ball in hand more than we did in the first half vs sa and don't kick loose. All the normal. We'll be better than last week as the new coaches have had another week at it. Still some new combos to bed and they'll need to do so quickly.

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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by munkian on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 2:12 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Fast line speed. Pressure the lineout. Keep the ball in hand more than we did in the first half vs sa and don't kick loose. All the normal. We'll be better than last week as the new coaches have had another week at it. Still some new combos to bed and they'll need to do so quickly.

With what players ?

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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 2:14 pm

The ones we've picked.

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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by munkian on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 2:16 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:The ones we've picked.

A-ha
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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by Taylorman on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 2:35 pm

Hansen turning the screws on Shields...

‘But Hansen is certain that Shields won't be able to protect himself from the mixed feelings he'll have at Twickenham.

It won't be so easy for him to pretend that a little piece of him isn't dying inside that he's wearing a white jersey instead of a black one.

The strangeness of seeing some of his closest friends in the other team, fulfilling the dream he too held for 27 years, will hit him hard – probably when the anthems are played and then again when the haka is performed.”

Probably unnecessary but also stating the obvious. This is what can happen when you make choices. Im sure he’ll love the occasion, and the Canes boys will have their little reunion afterwards. Think he’ll want to get a good hit on Barrett on at least one occasion.

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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 2:36 pm

Wow. The rejection seems to have hit hansen hard.

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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by munkian on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 2:37 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Wow. The rejection seems to have hit hansen hard.

Who would Hansen swap for him ?
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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 2:39 pm

You'd have to ask hansen.

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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by munkian on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 2:40 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:You'd have to ask hansen.

I thought you could, you're obviously close.
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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 2:41 pm

Never met him to be honest.

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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by Rugby Fan on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 2:42 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:I know it seems really unlikely to a lot of people but I really think this England side are going to rattle New Zealand...

I don't think people regard it as unlikely in the "You are having a laugh," sense. We've won seven against New Zealand, and drawn one, and we were only really given a good chance in two of those (2002/2003). There have been cases where we thougth we would be competitive and lost (1991 and others).

Since there have been cases of what looks like an outmatched England side turning the tables on New Zealand, then it's quite possible here too. If it does happen, then we'll remind ourselves that many of these same players have beaten every other leadingTest side at least once over the last three years, so we were unwise to undersestimate their chances.

Still, it won't be a surprise if that doesn't happen, because the most predominant picture we have of the All Blacks is sweeping all before them. In defeat against Ireland and South Africa, they scored 4 tries and 6 tries respectively. We don't often score at a better rate than that, so we probably have to do what no-one has yet managed: beat the All Blacks and keep their score low.



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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

Post by Rugby Fan on Fri 09 Nov 2018, 2:44 pm

Taylorman wrote:Hansen turning the screws on Shields...
That's what Sky presenter Rupert Fox (a Kiwi) was referring to when he wondered whether Hansen was being "ungracious".

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Re: My Dad's bigger than your Dad

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