European Tour - 2019

First topic message reminder :

New Year, Time for a New Thread.

EuroTour makes it 2019 Debut this week with the Abu Dhabi HSBC Classic Presented by EGA.  Next week is Dubai and the following week is the New Saudi Event

Guessing that the EGA Presentation got Abu Dhabi a promotion to a Rolex Series event.


DJ and BK are playing in Abu Dhabi.  So is Fleetwood, Stenson, Oosthuizen, RCB, Barnrat, Poulter, and Oleson

Despite the the Hired Guns from USA and Rolex Promotion, Abu Dhabi will have its lowest OWGR rating in 10 yrs.  Pelley can't be happy about that.

Robo

Are you kidding, the level of gammonary on here is unlikely to result in criticism of Saudi Arabia or the ET.


On spieth, in many social groups in the UK attending a bible class would be considered backward thinking if not outright uncivilised. A sentiment presumably uncommon in the USA.

Patrick Reed becomes an Honorary Life Member of the European tour - STORY HERE
It's usually dished out to ET members who win a major, so as he was an ET member when he won the Masters, he gets it.

I'm never wrong wrote:Patrick Reed becomes an Honorary Life Member of the European tour - STORY HERE
It's usually dished out to ET members who win a major, so as he was an ET member when he won the Masters, he gets it.

Another premature genuflection from Keith Pelley, wouldn't you think?
Plenty more deserving of that privilege.

kwinigolfer wrote:

I'm never wrong wrote:Patrick Reed becomes an Honorary Life Member of the European tour - STORY HERE
It's usually dished out to ET members who win a major, so as he was an ET member when he won the Masters, he gets it.

Another premature genuflection from Keith Pelley, wouldn't you think?
Plenty more deserving of that privilege.

I don't mean this in a confrontational way, just don't know who hasn't been given it, and therefore who should have been given it?

Well here is a list of those who have been given it. As I said, major winners get it, and I think OOM/R2D winners get it automatically.

1978 John Jacobs OBE
1978 Bernard Hunt MBE
1978 Dai Rees CBE
1982 Peter Butler
1983 Seve Ballesteros
1983 Tony Jacklin CBE
1985 Sir Henry Cotton MBE
1985 Fred Daly MBE
1985 Max Faulkner OBE
1985 Bernhard Langer
1985 Sandy Lyle MBE
1987 Sir Nick Faldo MBE
1992 Ian Woosnam OBE
1994 José María Olazábal
1995 Bob Charles
1995 Arnold Palmer
1995 Gary Player
1997 Colin Montgomerie OBE
1998 Ernie Els
1999 Paul Lawrie OBE
1999 Greg Norman
2001 Vijay Singh
2002 Retief Goosen
2003 Peter Alliss
2003 Bernard Gallacher OBE
2004 Neil Coles MBE
2004 Christy O’Connor
2004 John Panton
2005 Michael Campbell
2007 Angel Cabrera
2007 Padraig Harrington
2008 Trevor Immelman
2010 Martin Kaymer
2010 Graeme McDowell MBE
2010 Louis Oosthuizen
2010 Tom Watson
2011 Darren Clarke OBE
2011 Rory McIlroy MBE
2011 Charl Schwartzel
2011 Lee Westwood OBE
2012 Luke Donald MBE
2012 Brian Huggett MBE
2012 Tommy Horton MBE
2012 Mark James
2012 Roger Chapman
2013 Dave Thomas
2013 Justin Rose
2014 Jack Nicklaus
2016 Peter Oosterhuis
2016 Danny Willett
2016 Henrik Stenson
2017 Sam Torrance
2017 Sergio Garcia
2018 Francesco Molinari

It certainly took them long enough to honour Nicklaus, tho' I suppose he may never have been an ET member.

I'd've preferred to honour distinguished veterans, Major or not, such as Bjorn, Jimenez, Karlsson rather than Reed.

Having said which, hadn't realised how promptly major winners are recognised - fair enough.

robopz wrote:I thought I would come over and check in with my European friends to get a pulse on their thoughts RE the controversies surrounding the Saudi Arabia event.

Maybe some opinions on dismembering and dissolving a journalist in acid... Or maybe thoughts on bundling women up in bags and stoning them to death... Or maybe thoughts if the ET should have postponed this event... Or maybe thoughts should  these players taking the money to play in light of the recent controversies...  

But instead, I come in and find a heated debate on the horrific prospects that Jordan Spieth may or may not be attending a Bible class.  And in the same thread I read "statistically the UK is more civilized".

ROTFLMAO... I didn't know I was coming in for a comedy routine... Carry on please... This is awesome...

Robo, the Saudi tournament has been debated on here before, in various threads. But I’ll give you, probably not as much as the religious beliefs of some US golfers.

robopz wrote:I thought I would come over and check in with my European friends to get a pulse on their thoughts RE the controversies surrounding the Saudi Arabia event.

Maybe some opinions on dismembering and dissolving a journalist in acid... Or maybe thoughts on bundling women up in bags and stoning them to death... Or maybe thoughts if the ET should have postponed this event... Or maybe thoughts should  these players taking the money to play in light of the recent controversies...  

But instead, I come in and find a heated debate on the horrific prospects that Jordan Spieth may or may not be attending a Bible class.  And in the same thread I read "statistically the UK is more civilized".

ROTFLMAO... I didn't know I was coming in for a comedy routine... Carry on please... This is awesome...

We've debated the Saudi issue in some depth and the various comparisons of the regime to other countries with dodgy human rights issues and laws such as China, Turkey, Morocco, USA etc.

I suppose the treatment of detainees in America on terrorism charges doesn't really matter eh?

I’ve never understood the logic that you can’t criticise one regime because others are also flawed. The world is clearly complex, to make a protest you have to pick your moments as to when and where you can best effect change.

Sergio being Sergio!!!

What a berk - he'd better "Wheels Up" outathere before the Saudi with the bone saw catches up with him.

Need to see that either way its bang out of order to damage the playing surface.
If he wants to learn bunker play he should get down a municipal

Does Garci think he can play golf with one hand or something?

BBC reporting a couple of damages greens.

Wonder why no EuroTour Media went out to take pictures of the damaged greens.

There was at least an hour of daylight left after the announcement of Sergio's DQ.

Were they lazy? Inexcusable

Were they prohibited from going out there by the EuroTour or Saudi Officials? Inexcusable.

Meet the new Sergio, same as the old Sergio. Pea brain.

GPB wrote:Wonder why no EuroTour Media went out to take pictures of the damaged greens.

There was at least an hour of daylight left after the announcement of Sergio's DQ.

Were they lazy?  Inexcusable

Were they prohibited from going out there by the EuroTour or Saudi Officials?  Inexcusable.

Maybe it was all repaired quickly before anyone could get there? Don’t know what he did so can’t be sure.
And why do we need pictures? He committed an offence, plead guilty and was punished. Should be end of story.

From Lawrence donegon

Lawrence donegon wrote:
No video footage of Sergio Garcia damaging greens in Saudi Arabia and no quotes from any players whose livelihoods he was messing with. This is what happens when  professional golf is purged of professional journalists.

Although if this hadn't been committed by a Ryder cup sweetheart I wonder if the journalism might have been a little more thorough?

McLaren wrote:From Lawrence donegon

Lawrence donegon wrote:
No video footage of Sergio Garcia damaging greens in Saudi Arabia and no quotes from any players whose livelihoods he was messing with. This is what happens when  professional golf is purged of professional journalists.

Although if this hadn't been committed by a Ryder cup sweetheart I wonder if the journalism might have been a little more thorough?

Or not mentioned at all . . . . . . . . ?

Imagine if Reed or tiger had done this. The golf aficionados would have lost their minds.

They usually turn a blind eye to what Tiger does, or at least a deaf ear to what he says.

I'm never wrong wrote:

GPB wrote:Wonder why no EuroTour Media went out to take pictures of the damaged greens.

There was at least an hour of daylight left after the announcement of Sergio's DQ.

Were they lazy?  Inexcusable

Were they prohibited from going out there by the EuroTour or Saudi Officials?  Inexcusable.

Maybe it was all repaired quickly before anyone could get there? Don’t know what he did so can’t be sure.
And why do we need pictures? He committed an offence, plead guilty and was punished. Should be end of story.

At least one journalist (Geoff Shackleford) is opining that Sergio get a years suspension from golf. I would like to know the extent of the damage before levying a draconian penalty. How about an interview with the players who had to follow Sergio in Round 3. Or even an interview with Renato Paratore who was paired with Sergio in Round 3.

Maybe the extent of the damage does warrant a substantial suspension. or a shorter suspension. Not that I think Sergio deserves a benefit of a doubt, but that lack of direct evidence from photos and players is troubling.

Of course maybe witnesses are waiting until after they get off Saudi soil. Given Saudi politics, I would probably wait as well.

McLaren wrote:From Lawrence donegon

Lawrence donegon wrote:
No video footage of Sergio Garcia damaging greens in Saudi Arabia and no quotes from any players whose livelihoods he was messing with. This is what happens when  professional golf is purged of professional journalists.

Although if this hadn't been committed by a Ryder cup sweetheart I wonder if the journalism might have been a little more thorough?

Donegon has a point. There's been an enormous attrition rate among professional golf journalism... Over here in the States at least. Some of the displaced are trying hold on with new online Publications and such, but easily the typical weekly PGA Tour media rooms are down 50% or more in this decade. Photographers likewise, maybe even worse. Majors excepted...

IMO Sergio suspension would be overkill. Large fine and Euro Tour rebuke is sufficient.

robopz wrote:

McLaren wrote:From Lawrence donegon

Lawrence donegon wrote:
No video footage of Sergio Garcia damaging greens in Saudi Arabia and no quotes from any players whose livelihoods he was messing with. This is what happens when  professional golf is purged of professional journalists.

Although if this hadn't been committed by a Ryder cup sweetheart I wonder if the journalism might have been a little more thorough?

 

Donegon has a point. There's been an enormous attrition rate among professional golf journalism... Over here in the States at least.  Some of the displaced are trying hold on with new online Publications and such, but easily the typical weekly PGA Tour media rooms are down 50% or more in this decade. Photographers likewise, maybe even worse. Majors excepted...

You could go all "socialistic" and cut your rates, robo . . . . . . . . .


Though, seriously now, wouldn't the decline of the number of journalists apply to all topics, current affairs, sport, business, the lot? And so much of the strictly on-line content (here at least) is churned out by interns or young'uns in the first job.

Kwini... Sure the cuts in print journalism is across the board. Digital age and all. The problem is genuine news organizations have been slow to learn how to monetize the digital platforms so their revenue streams have been devastated. I don't have the solution. But hopefully the few remaining good golf journalists can hold on somehow. And don't get me wrong, there are some good online news portals and I love the convenience. It's just that most are loaded down with way too much chaf and too little wheat.

robopz wrote:Kwini... Sure the cuts in print journalism is across the board. Digital age and all.  The problem is genuine news organizations have been slow to learn how to monetize the digital platforms so their revenue streams have been devastated.  I don't have the solution. But hopefully the few remaining good golf journalists can hold on somehow.  And don't get me wrong, there are some good online news portals and I love the convenience. It's just that most are loaded down with way too much chaf and too little wheat.

Lots of wheat on here, robo! As far as golf journalism is concerned, it's at least in part because the national guys are lazy, from TV booths all the way down to the bigger papers.
A bit like our local rags with newspapers who fill their pages with everything but the news.

So was none of segios tantrum caught on the ET coverage?


A years ban would be a bit much but considering the club and shoe throwing, spitting in the cup, overreacting to a club rattle, fried chicken remark and now this maybe the ET could rule him out of ever getting RC captaincy?

Forgotten all about this

https://twitter.com/JKnox_59/status/1091717944097165312

Nice one gpb.


A few sources seem to be saying it was 5 greens and the groups behind made a complaint.

If true ban the pillock for the season. Why not?

Speaking of golf journalism ... Interesting that Rickie and DJ are on the cover (along with Butch Harmon) of the March issue of Golf Digest. DJ did his job, now it's up to Rickie.

McLaren wrote:Nice one gpb.


A few sources seem to be saying it was 5 greens and the groups behind made a complaint.

If true ban the pillock for the season. Why not?

You really think they're going to ban the guy who reached in his pocket to save golf in Spain for the Euro Tour? Come on man...

Robo

I don't think they will because it seems his punishment has already been handed out(factors like you mention probably determining the leniency). But can we not dream?

Mac... You guys here probably know better than I, but I think I understand there's some kind of disciplinary committee? I doubt they're entirely done with Sergio (maybe big fine to come or something?) But I just don't see any way they're going to ban the guy. And from the only picture I've seen of the damage on the 6th green [albeit repaired], if that's the kind of stuff we're talking about, I don't see how it rises to the level of a suspension anyway. ET seems to save those for cheaters and drug violations.

By the way. Nice Win by DJ... Really good showing by Haotong Li and Tom Lewis as well. DeChambeau finished respectfully as well, but most the rest of the "paid help" not so much.

Finally someone writes the article I wanted to see.

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/golf/sorry-sergio-garcia-will-not-face-ban-over-damaging-greens-in-saudi-1-4866884

robopz wrote:ET seems to save those for cheaters and drug violations.

If hacking the green up for the groups behind isn't cheating then what is it?

Minor story. Move on

Before anyone accuses me of supporting Garcia, disgraceful behaviour from a professional. Should get a tournament ban for that.

How can it be cheating though Mac? How is it helping him? How is it improving his score? How is it affecting anyone else due to it being repaired before they got the chance to play it? Perhaps you should look up what the word means before using it incorrectly.

McLaren wrote:

robopz wrote:ET seems to save those for cheaters and drug violations.

If hacking the green up for the groups behind isn't cheating then what is it?

He was just adapting to local customs of hacking things up.

From the article in the Scotsman: "Players in the next four groups complained to officials about the mess Garcia had made and, after finishing his round, the 39-year-old was disqualified under Rule 1.2a, which allows for that action to be taken if a player has committed serious misconduct."

But all is good now since pea brain apologized.

Super

Altering the course to the disadvantage to other players is probably the most blatant cheating possible.

McLaren wrote:Super

Altering the course to the disadvantage to other players is probably the most blatant cheating possible.

No Mac, it isn't. Picking the ball up and throwing it towards the target then and claiming you haven't is probably more blatant cheating.

Conduct unbecoming. DQ and a fine at least with possibly a suspension (although I doubt there's an ET event he'd be bothered about missing except maybe Spain and the ET wouldn't shoot itself in the foot by banning him for that. Maybe UPPING his requirements to play ET events would be a better punishment for him!).

Roller_Coaster wrote:

McLaren wrote:Super

Altering the course to the disadvantage to other players is probably the most blatant cheating possible.

No Mac, it isn't. Picking the ball up and throwing it towards the target then and claiming you haven't is probably more blatant cheating.

Conduct unbecoming. DQ and a fine at least with possibly a suspension (although I doubt there's an ET event he'd be bothered about missing except maybe Spain and the ET wouldn't shoot itself in the foot by banning him for that. Maybe UPPING his requirements to play ET events would be a better punishment for him!).

Another thought... Maybe hitting the ball and running up and hitting it again before it has stopped is more blatant cheating .

How about filling out your scorecard in advance? That would be great cheating.

Bottom line though ... pea brain cheated by purposely damaging the course for the competitors who followed. If none of those competitors were impacted by the position of those scuff marks that is entirely beside the point.

OK point taken, but can we agree altering the green is cheating?

On his punishment, what about having to use peabrain as his moniker on the ET TV graphics?

McLaren wrote:OK point taken, but can we agree altering the green is cheating?

On his punishment, what about having to use peabrain as his moniker on the ET TV graphics?

Is it more cheating than altering the fairway?

Much as it pains me Mac after I jfgi it does technically sit within the definition. Whilst I don't think he did it to gain an advantage, he will have had an advantage over the groups behind him because of what he did.

For punishment how's about he has to read all of yours and Super's arguments on here over the last 5 years?

Roller_Coaster wrote:For punishment how's about he has to read all of yours and Super's arguments on here over the last 5 years?

Sheesh, all the guy did was hack up a bunch of greens, and now you want to give him the DEATH PENALTY? Harsh man, harsh..

It would be a slow and painful way to go.

Shotrock wrote:How about filling out your scorecard in advance? That would be great cheating.

Bottom line though ... pea brain cheated by purposely damaging the course for the competitors who followed. If none of those competitors were impacted by the position of those scuff marks that is entirely beside the point.

Hardly cheating. It would be cheating IF the purpose of his act was to cause disruption for the people following, however he's got previous form for petulant behaviour, as he displayed in the bunker during the same round.
Are you suggesting that him displacing sand in the bunker is also cheating? He's guilty of childish behaviour, but only a millennial would claim it was cheating.