Betting at the RWC

Welsh Rugby Union CEO Martyn Phillips and head coach Warren Gatland fronted up to the media at their hotel in Japan to address Howley’s recent removal from the setup.

And it has emerged that a betting company's integrity team contacted the WRU last Wednesday (September 11) with information that prompted Phillips to fly out to Japan to confront Howley with the claims.

Before CEO Phillips and WRU Operations Manager Julie Paterson flew out to Kitakyushu, where Wales are currently based, they informed World Rugby of the potential breach and began formal proceedings.

In an opening statement from Phillips before the press conference began on Wednesday, he explained the timeline of events.

“I’m going to tell you as much as I can but we are in a formal process and there are certain things I can’t disclose,” said Phillips.

“We were contacted on Wednesday of last week informally to suggest there was a potential breach of regulation 6, which you’ll now be familiar with.

“We were then contacted formally with further information on Friday evening. We took Saturday to digest that information.

“We reached the decision on Saturday that we were best-placed to come out to Japan.

“At that point we informed World Rugby that there was a potential breach and we would be seeking face to face time with Rob to get his perspective.


As for any allegations posters make in reference to current news stories unless they have the words “allegedly” or "as reported in" your posts will be removed by moderators

We mods need to be hard on this as a public forum.

It is unlikely we will get into trouble as a forum due to liable but this has happened in the past so please will you consider what you are writing before you send, else we may have to remove your posts.

Unfortunately gambling is rammed down the throat of most sports enthusiasts nowadays. You cannot not watch a sporting event without some betting company splattered all over it. Gambling is gambling, in any form. We are running a sweep stake at our place, we have all put a tenner in, and we have put all the teams into an envelope, we are going to open them in the club on the semi finals, we all do it, everywhere, how many people pay a quid, every 6N game, and pick a player out of the pint glass for 1st try scorer ?

P.S

Where are we discussing Wales and the world cup now ?

In the same way that cigarette advertising has been banned in professional sport likewise it would be great in my opinion that gambling was treated similarly.

It annoys the hell out of me the sheer quantity of gambling website pop up adverts we get online while trying to read articles about sport.

LordDowlais wrote:P.S

Where are we discussing Wales and the world cup now ?

Thread mark 2 is up now..!

I don't think the issue is that he is gambling. The problem is he was gambling on Rugby Union.

Gambling is any easy road to go down, without even knowing how much trouble you are in. I have seen people bet their entire wages away playing brag/nap/poker.

I have seen it start off, 5p and 10p, then escolate to 50p and £1, then £1 and £2 and so on... I have seen people playing £10 and £20. It is very scary.

Our club has banned playing cards for money, if they see you, they will chuck you out. But there are fruit machines everywhere, the Super 6 is advertised on the notice boards, people are always on their phones placing bets as the football or rugby is on.

When you think about it, it is everywhere, you cannot go anywhere without seeing gambling advertised, it seems to go hand in hand with sport now.

maestegmafia wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:P.S

Where are we discussing Wales and the world cup now ?

Thread mark 2 is up now..!

I know, just seen it.

Sin é wrote:I don't think the issue is that he is gambling. The problem is he was gambling on Rugby Union.

So far we haven’t seen anything other than Howley is assisting in an investigation. There are no accusations as far as I have read implementing him in gambling that is just a natural assumption due to the nature of the stories in the press.

If this were true, it surely shouldn't be that surprising? Rob Howley was backs coach - so did that mean he advised on what to back?

Gambling advertising should be banned, as should booze advertising in my opinion.

Gambling shouldn’t even be referred to as "gambling" in my view. The definition of a gamble is a "chance" and these days everything is so heavily stacked in favour of the bookie that you may as well just hand them your money for giggles.

I saw a documentary on the BBC a month back where a boy was trying to be a pro gambler for a month and make money. He did all sorts of types of gambling, including manging to bet on things before a website had been updated so it was a guaranteed win. All that happened is any time he started to make money, the bookie would close his account down.

Remember, if you win with a bet, you are not taking money from the bookie, you are simply taking a share of the money that the bookie has taken off of some poor punter that lost.

Bookies are just a form of mathematically gifted loan sharks!

maestegmafia wrote:

Sin é wrote:I don't think the issue is that he is gambling. The problem is he was gambling on Rugby Union.

So far we haven’t seen anything other than Howley is assisting in an investigation. There are no accusations as far as I have read implementing him in gambling that is just a natural assumption due to the nature of the stories in the press.

Highly unlikely Wales' backs coach would be sent home to investigate a betting scandal if he wasnt front and centre of the scandal himself.

Collapse2005 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Sin é wrote:I don't think the issue is that he is gambling. The problem is he was gambling on Rugby Union.

So far we haven’t seen anything other than Howley is assisting in an investigation. There are no accusations as far as I have read implementing him in gambling that is just a natural assumption due to the nature of the stories in the press.

Highly unlikely Wales' backs coach would be sent home to investigate a betting scandal if he wasnt front and centre of the scandal himself.

That is speculation not fact..

Was there ever a rift between him and Webb? Since I read that he 'put on a bet on Webb not making the world cup squad' I had a sense of deja vu. Now Gatland can appeal to the WRU as this is surely good enough reason to call up Rhys Webb...

LordDowlais wrote:Unfortunately gambling is rammed down the throat of most sports enthusiasts nowadays...

Yes, and I'm not comfortable with it either. There was a time one or two seasons ago when a lot of rugby podcasts suddenly got betting sponsorship. I'm glad that didn't catch on. It's bad enough hearing Ray Winstone's voice as much as we do but I understand it's worse in Australia. Bookie Tom Waterhouse used to appear on NRL TV coverage.

mikey_dragon wrote:Was there ever a rift between him and Webb? Since I read that he 'put on a bet on Webb not making the world cup squad' I had a sense of deja vu. Now Gatland can appeal to the WRU as this is surely good enough reason to call up Rhys Webb...

I thought the only such rift was between Howley and Dwayne Peel at the start of this decade.

Rugby Fan wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Unfortunately gambling is rammed down the throat of most sports enthusiasts nowadays...

Yes, and I'm not comfortable with it either. There was a time one or two seasons ago when a lot of rugby podcasts suddenly got betting sponsorship. I'm glad that didn't catch on. It's bad enough hearing Ray Winstone's voice as much as we do but I understand it's worse in Australia. Bookie Tom Waterhouse used to appear on NRL TV coverage.

About the only live TV I watch is sport. This does mean that I see rather a lot of Gambling ads - and it is something that annoys the crap out of me. There are a variety of rules about Gambling adverts in UK: https://www.asa.org.uk/topic/gambling.html

I am certainly not comfortable that 10 (of 20) Premier League Football Clubs have gambling firms as their shirt sponsors.

LondonTiger wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Was there ever a rift between him and Webb? Since I read that he 'put on a bet on Webb not making the world cup squad' I had a sense of deja vu. Now Gatland can appeal to the WRU as this is surely good enough reason to call up Rhys Webb...

I thought the only such rift was between Howley and Dwayne Peel at the start of this decade.

Lee Byrne doesn't like Howley. Said in his book, he was a bully.

LondonTiger wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Was there ever a rift between him and Webb? Since I read that he 'put on a bet on Webb not making the world cup squad' I had a sense of deja vu. Now Gatland can appeal to the WRU as this is surely good enough reason to call up Rhys Webb...

I thought the only such rift was between Howley and Dwayne Peel at the start of this decade.

Possibly, and the Webb-rift I'm thinking of could have been between him and Tandy. The former Ospreys coach fell out with a few players before getting the chop.

RiscaGame wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Was there ever a rift between him and Webb? Since I read that he 'put on a bet on Webb not making the world cup squad' I had a sense of deja vu. Now Gatland can appeal to the WRU as this is surely good enough reason to call up Rhys Webb...

I thought the only such rift was between Howley and Dwayne Peel at the start of this decade.

Lee Byrne doesn't like Howley. Said in his book, he was a bully.

Ah that explains all the Lee Byrne jokes on Twitter yesterday evening, I was wondering what that was about

Aus 14/1 looks like a decent bet.

maestegmafia wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Sin é wrote:I don't think the issue is that he is gambling. The problem is he was gambling on Rugby Union.

So far we haven’t seen anything other than Howley is assisting in an investigation. There are no accusations as far as I have read implementing him in gambling that is just a natural assumption due to the nature of the stories in the press.

Highly unlikely Wales' backs coach would be sent home to investigate a betting scandal if he wasnt front and centre of the scandal himself.

That is speculation not fact..

Probability really but yeah sure nothing has been confirmed yet.

Fair point made in Planet Rugby...
‘The details are simply not known. But that the allegations are serious enough, that after Howley’s full cooperation the WRU felt it necessary to send him home and call for an independent disciplinary panel rather than an internal one, that his former colleagues are talking about mental support rather than patience, all lends itself to the feeling that Howley’s transgression might have been grave indeed.’

It’s an English plot. After the game in Cardiff, he bumped in to Eddie Jones in the Tunnel.

Eddie said “ if you play like that at the World Cup your going out in the quarter finals.”

Rob said “Wanna bet?”

Eddie reported him to the IRB ethics

LondonTiger wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Unfortunately gambling is rammed down the throat of most sports enthusiasts nowadays...

Yes, and I'm not comfortable with it either. There was a time one or two seasons ago when a lot of rugby podcasts suddenly got betting sponsorship. I'm glad that didn't catch on. It's bad enough hearing Ray Winstone's voice as much as we do but I understand it's worse in Australia. Bookie Tom Waterhouse used to appear on NRL TV coverage.

About the only live TV I watch is sport. This does mean that I see rather a lot of Gambling ads - and it is something that annoys the crap out of me. There are a variety of rules about Gambling adverts in UK: https://www.asa.org.uk/topic/gambling.html

Last time I was back I stayed with my Stepdad for the first time since my mum had died and he'd got into the habit of leaving the tv on in the background even when not watching (for noise/ company I guess). I was really shocked at the sheer volume of betting ads, and also the number of different companies. Not just during sporting events either.

The Gatland and Phillips Press Conference

https://youtu.be/XgTR3XSKOF8

Will this put Rob Howley's job as a coach on stand by? 

Or will it kill is chances of being a coach stoned dead?

Maggie Alphonsi says the women have been warned for years about betting. That means there's virtually no chance that anyone at the top level of the professional game was unaware of the World Rugby ban.

Before the 2014 Women’s World Cup, I remember all teams were spoken to by a World Rugby official about the off-field rules they must abide by.

The first item on that list was very simple: under no circumstances can you, or anyone close to you, bet on rugby. The reason was very simple – as players we are privy to confidential information and it is illegal to use that to our own gain.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-world-cup/2019/09/18/claims-rob-howley-surprised-world-rugbys-rules-leave-no-grey/

Rugby Fan wrote:Maggie Alphonsi says the women have been warned for years about betting. That means there's virtually no chance that anyone at the top level of the professional game was unaware of the World Rugby ban.

Before the 2014 Women’s World Cup, I remember all teams were spoken to by a World Rugby official about the off-field rules they must abide by.

The first item on that list was very simple: under no circumstances can you, or anyone close to you, bet on rugby. The reason was very simple – as players we are privy to confidential information and it is illegal to use that to our own gain.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-world-cup/2019/09/18/claims-rob-howley-surprised-world-rugbys-rules-leave-no-grey/

The impression from the welsh squad is one of compassion not anger and support for a part of their team who is not well. All the words regarding Rob Howley’s departure from their environment are of support.

If you understand addiction as an illness then Maggie Alphonsi’s words have no connection whatsoever. It might be clear as day that betting on rugby when you are within the inner echelons is prohibited, this doesn’t matter a jot if you have a dependence on gambling.

maestegmafia wrote:...The impression from the welsh squad is one of compassion not anger and support for a part of their team who is not well....

I said on the other thread that I don't want to jump to any conclusions about addiction. There are obviously hints but we simply don't know enough at this stage.

Alphonsi's comments are relevant because some former pros seemed surprised that there was a ban on rugby betting, which raised questions about whether there might have been an unknowing breach. Nicky Robinson on BBC Wales suggested those old players just aren't up-to-date with current practice, saying that everyone in the professional game would be aware of the ban.

Hatley has basically echoed this to say everyone knew of the rules around this. But we're unlikely to find out any details for a while.

Rugby Fan wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:...The impression from the welsh squad is one of compassion not anger and support for a part of their team who is not well....

I said on the other thread that I don't want to jump to any conclusions about addiction. There are obviously hints but we simply don't know enough at this stage.

Alphonsi's comments are relevant because some former pros seemed surprised that there was a ban on rugby betting, which raised questions about whether there might have been an unknowing breach. Nicky Robinson on BBC Wales suggested those old players just aren't up-to-date with current practice, saying that everyone in the professional game would be aware of the ban.

You only have to look at comments sections across the interweb to see how many people (not current rugby players I hasten to add) seem to think that a breach would have to be either betting against Wales or using inside knowledge. As we have discussed no betting of any kind is allowed. That has been clear ever since Phil Blake was banned for betting on Leicester Tigers to win games.

The Great Aukster wrote:If this were true, it surely shouldn't be that surprising? Rob Howley was backs coach - so did that mean he advised on what to back?

Well I thought it was a decent attempt.

Maybe he's already made a fortune by betting that he would be thrown out of the World Cup before it began?

Just heard some juicy gossip regarding this, from an ex colleague of Rob Howley, I am not putting on here, but if anybody wants to PM me feel free. Its all allegedly said mind, but if it is true, then Rob Howley is in big, big trouble.

I cannot put it on here as too many people would take that chance to report me and try and get me banned. Such is this place nowadays.

Yeah its pretty obvious that he has made some really bat sh1t crazy bets.

LordDowlais wrote:Just heard some juicy gossip regarding this, from an ex colleague of Rob Howley, I am not putting on here, but if anybody wants to PM me feel free. Its all allegedly said mind, but if it is true, then Rob Howley is in big, big trouble.

I cannot put it on here as too many people would take that chance to report me and try and get me banned. Such is this place nowadays.  

No-one can put it on here because even if they use the word allegedly, if it is not in the mainstream press they are opening up the risk of falling foul of libel laws.

Galted wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:If this were true, it surely shouldn't be that surprising? Rob Howley was backs coach - so did that mean he advised on what to back?

Well I thought it was a decent attempt.

I try to get down to a fairly low level... no wait that's my descent attempt.

LondonTiger wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Just heard some juicy gossip regarding this, from an ex colleague of Rob Howley, I am not putting on here, but if anybody wants to PM me feel free. Its all allegedly said mind, but if it is true, then Rob Howley is in big, big trouble.

I cannot put it on here as too many people would take that chance to report me and try and get me banned. Such is this place nowadays.  

No-one can put it on here because even if they use the word allegedly, if it is not in the mainstream press they are opening up the risk of falling foul of libel laws.

Hardly. Howley sent home by employer; evidently there is a prima facie case to answer QED Howley has been involved in gambling. Speculation by a private citizen on a public forum with membership criteria about a rugby coach gambling following the biggest news story in rugby since Folau is hardly going to invite assertions of libel.

People have been quoting the problem bet, and the amount all over the internet - and they keep getting taken down by moderators.

Until the specifics are in general circulation in the mainstream media any rumours should be left off the board. This instruction is not specific to a single poster with juicy gossip, it is to all. So people can discuss what is public knowledge, but not bring up any, as yet, unfounded allegations.

I once put a big bet on England to win the world cup.

LondonTiger wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Just heard some juicy gossip regarding this, from an ex colleague of Rob Howley, I am not putting on here, but if anybody wants to PM me feel free. Its all allegedly said mind, but if it is true, then Rob Howley is in big, big trouble.

I cannot put it on here as too many people would take that chance to report me and try and get me banned. Such is this place nowadays.  

No-one can put it on here because even if they use the word allegedly, if it is not in the mainstream press they are opening up the risk of falling foul of libel laws.

You're spoiling the persecution complex with facts

Collapse2005 wrote:I once put a big bet on England to win the world cup.

Are you 34 or older? If not commiserations

LondonTiger wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:I once put a big bet on England to win the world cup.

Are you 34 or older? If not commiserations

I am afraid I am

Have a punt on Russia, I bet WADA have

Someone here had 500 on Uruguay beating Fiji at 17s, a nice 8.5k

Taylorman wrote:Someone here had 500 on Uruguay beating Fiji at 17s, a nice 8.5k

500 what?

Collapse2005 wrote:

Taylorman wrote:Someone here had 500 on Uruguay beating Fiji at 17s, a nice 8.5k

500 what?

Yen.

Iranian rials

Pacific Peso