Championship funding to be slashed

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Post by Rinsure on Wed 12 Feb 2020, 8:28 am

The Guardian are reporting that the RFU is to cut it's funding support of the second tier of English rugby by 50% as of next season.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/feb/11/championship-clubs-rfu-brutal-slash-funding

This is a Bad Thing. This is, as a quote from the article states, ring fencing by default. It's not only going to cause a lot of clubs a lot of trouble, it could result in major restructuring costing jobs, and possibly the existence of some clubs.

PRL have been pushing the A-League as it's preferred second tier, and with the capital injection from CVC it seems that PRL have got the RFU to buy into that.

As someone who has grown up supporting Coventry (now Wasps too, of course), and turned out in the blue and white at Coundon Road on a few occasions this makes me fearful for the future of the club, and so many others in their boat. It will, at the very least, put a massive dent in the ambitions to be a contender for promotion in a few years.


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Post by formerly known as Sam on Wed 12 Feb 2020, 9:20 am

Disgraceful quite frankly. The RFU pushed the Championship clubs to become fully professional and are not hanging them out to dry. I expect several will go under on the back of this.

The damage this could do to player development in this country should not be underestimated. The Championship has been the probing ground for late developers for some time; Twelvetrees, Tomas Francis, Harry Williams and Jonah Holmes just a few internationals who dropped down to a Championship club before coming back up. Let alone the Prem players who flourished on loan, Dan Cole speaks very highly of his season on loan at Bedford.

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Post by tigertattie on Wed 12 Feb 2020, 9:28 am

Its bad but the English clubs will still be getting twice that which the Scottish clubs in our "top flight" are getting.

Looks like the ERU are going to follow the same route as the SRU and keep the funding at the top of the game. In Scotland this is widly regarded as a douche move as the money needing spread out along the grass roots of rugby to develop the next generation.
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Post by king_carlos on Wed 12 Feb 2020, 4:52 pm

I'd be surprised if there isn't some form of legal challenge to this given the lack of notice. A lot of people stand to lose jobs with that drastic a funding cut at no notice.

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Post by lostinwales on Wed 12 Feb 2020, 4:56 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/feb/12/rugby-union-championship-justin-blanchet-canada-bedford-blues

Not easy. Not easy at all

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Post by king_carlos on Wed 12 Feb 2020, 5:10 pm

lostinwales wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/feb/12/rugby-union-championship-justin-blanchet-canada-bedford-blues

Not easy. Not easy at all

It's a well written article by Will Hooley as well.

The Championship has been hung out to dry somewhat by the RFU. Their insistence on wanting the league to be fully professional in the foreseeable future drove many clubs to be very ambitious with recruitment and investment. Now they are slashing funding and looking to pull up the drawbridge.

Even as a Tigers fan I was actually pretty enthused when the brief suggestion was made of Sarries automatic relegation causing two sides to go down if a different side finished bottom - prior to the second 70 point deduction.

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Post by king_carlos on Wed 12 Feb 2020, 6:48 pm

https://cornish-pirates.com/general-news/statement-on-behalf-of-cornish-pirates-and-coventry-rugby/

Joint statement from Cornish Pirates and Coventry. Sums the situation up well.

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Post by 123456789. on Wed 12 Feb 2020, 7:56 pm

This is really worrying. England is in a fortunate position in World Rugby. Alone with France in being a country with the interest and the money to sustain a proper pyramid position. It is something special and should be cherished. The idea that with a bit of luck you're local team could be the next Exeter Chiefs. This CVC business worries me. These are people with who clearly think that short term (sizeable) investment will be rewarded. If they didn't think they could get, in the long term, take more money out than they put in. The short term money might seem tempting. When it's spent what will be left once CVC have had their pound of flesh? The Championship clubs are the first losers and I can't see them being the last.

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Post by Eejit on Wed 12 Feb 2020, 9:14 pm

king_carlos wrote:https://cornish-pirates.com/general-news/statement-on-behalf-of-cornish-pirates-and-coventry-rugby/

Joint statement from Cornish Pirates and Coventry. Sums the situation up well.

Good on them. Had the pleasure of watching quite a few championship games at a few different grounds and always had a great experience.

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Post by guestalt_physicality on Thu 13 Feb 2020, 11:05 am

CVC will kill parts of the game while growing others. Rugby is competing with League, which it has mostly beaten but there's still a big interest in Australasia and the Pacific, and American Football, which is the big pull. If international rugby players are earning 10% or less of what NFL players are in the next 10-20 years then rugby will come under threat and that is what is at stake. Sadly a lot of what made rugby rugby will probably die as a consequence. And even then CVC might ultimately fail in their attempt to grow the game for profit. The response, as ever, will be through hard work of unheralded people to keep alive the clubs and pathways that produce the fabric of competition and make young boys lace up their boots.
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Post by Irish Londoner on Thu 13 Feb 2020, 11:34 am

guestalt_physicality wrote:CVC will kill parts of the game while growing others. Rugby is competing with League, which it has mostly beaten but there's still a big interest in Australasia and the Pacific, and American Football, which is the big pull. If international rugby players are earning 10% or less of what NFL players are in the next 10-20 years then rugby will come under threat and that is what is at stake. Sadly a lot of what made rugby rugby will probably die as a consequence. And even then CVC might ultimately fail in their attempt to grow the game for profit. The response, as ever, will be through hard work of unheralded people to keep alive the clubs and pathways that produce the fabric of competition and make young boys lace up their boots.

Given that in my "rugby blazer" days at a county meeting when we were bemoaning the closure of a couple of local teams due to lack of numbers, the response from the RFU HQ representative was "it's not a problem there are too many rugby clubs in your area anyway", forgive me if I don't trust the RFU to keep the pathways open.

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Post by Irish Londoner on Thu 13 Feb 2020, 11:36 am

Championship rugby may be about to have it's revenge - apparently in the light of the cut to funding the clubs are on the verge of agreeing a new salary cap for next season of around £2.5 million, which is going to make it very difficult for a certain team from north London to retain it's big name and England players in the Championship.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Thu 13 Feb 2020, 11:47 am

Irish Londoner wrote:Championship rugby may be about to have it's revenge - apparently in the light of the cut to funding the clubs are on the verge of agreeing a new salary cap for next season of around £2.5 million, which is going to make it very difficult for a certain team from north London to retain it's big name and England players in the Championship.

It would be tough for any team that goes down. Cutting at least two thirds of the playing staff costs from any club will be difficult.

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Post by tigertattie on Thu 13 Feb 2020, 12:23 pm

Irish Londoner wrote:Championship rugby may be about to have it's revenge - apparently in the light of the cut to funding the clubs are on the verge of agreeing a new salary cap for next season of around £2.5 million, which is going to make it very difficult for a certain team from north London to retain it's big name and England players in the Championship.

Absolute genius move by the championship.

When Sarries go down, that cap will mean an emptying of the cupboards and unless Sarries have a whoe squad of low paid players, like a championship side club currently, then they wil lfind it very very difficult to field a decent team next season.

Pretty sure the RFU will stop the move though.

If they dont, it could be the end of Sarries as a club.
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Post by lostinwales on Thu 13 Feb 2020, 12:32 pm

tigertattie wrote:
Irish Londoner wrote:Championship rugby may be about to have it's revenge - apparently in the light of the cut to funding the clubs are on the verge of agreeing a new salary cap for next season of around £2.5 million, which is going to make it very difficult for a certain team from north London to retain it's big name and England players in the Championship.

Absolute genius move by the championship.

When Sarries go down, that cap will mean an emptying of the cupboards and unless Sarries have a whoe squad of low paid players, like a championship side club currently, then they wil lfind it very very difficult to field a decent team next season.

Pretty sure the RFU will stop the move though.

If they dont, it could be the end of Sarries as a club.

Yes. I wonder how many would shed a tear if that happened. Its a great shame really as what they achieved cannot be attributed to 'creative funding' alone. Coaching and player development has been first rate.

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Post by Irish Londoner on Thu 13 Feb 2020, 12:47 pm

tigertattie wrote:
Irish Londoner wrote:Championship rugby may be about to have it's revenge - apparently in the light of the cut to funding the clubs are on the verge of agreeing a new salary cap for next season of around £2.5 million, which is going to make it very difficult for a certain team from north London to retain it's big name and England players in the Championship.

Absolute genius move by the championship.

When Sarries go down, that cap will mean an emptying of the cupboards and unless Sarries have a whoe squad of low paid players, like a championship side club currently, then they wil lfind it very very difficult to field a decent team next season.

Pretty sure the RFU will stop the move though.

If they dont, it could be the end of Sarries as a club.

I'm assuming it's a "shot across the bows" to the RFU/PRL - "if we don't have the funding to a least try and compete then we are going to neuter the relegated Premiership team as well".

What would happen if the Championship clubs refused to play Saracens next season - Saracens would get promoted again as they'd presumably be awarded the points for unfulfilled fixtures but would they be able to manage on a season of only playing friendlies?

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Post by king_carlos on Thu 13 Feb 2020, 6:33 pm

Which organisation or member clubs would need to agree a salary cap for the Championship?

In the Prem it's PRL but I don't know enough about the inner workings of the Championship to know how that would be passed. If the clubs could indeed collectively do so then it could be a very smart bargaining chip in the funding debate.

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Post by Eejit on Thu 13 Feb 2020, 8:57 pm

king_carlos wrote:Which organisation or member clubs would need to agree a salary cap for the Championship?

In the Prem it's PRL but I don't know enough about the inner workings of the Championship to know how that would be passed. If the clubs could indeed collectively do so then it could be a very smart bargaining chip in the funding debate.

Pretty sure any decision would need to be rubber stamped by the RFU, but I’m sure someone more in the know will be able to correct me if I’m wrong.

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Post by Brendan on Fri 14 Feb 2020, 8:32 am

The wage cap just needs to be sold as it is to stop teams over reaching and going bust

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Post by Brendan on Fri 14 Feb 2020, 11:29 am

It is interesting to see the different takes between the French and English suits in running the game.

The French are on an active drive to have a three teirs of professional set-ups.  They know there are to many clubs in the South, so teams in the North are being given a chance to put forward being a professional club and will get fast tracked.  France currently has the top financial league in the world.  The top teams of the second teir has the financial muscle to compete with the smaller teams in the Pro14, Prem and SR.

England should do a structure along the lines of the following. The question also that must be answered is who is responsible for clubs being professional. Currently it seems it's the RFU's job but in France it is the club's job. I would be interested to see the amount of money the RFU and FFR but into the club organisations.

Prem 12-14 teams with the bottom two having a promotion relegation playoff against the North and South Champs (or last relegated champs promoted)
Teir two would be the A teams for the 13 PRL members plus 7 more teams (As realistically there are only about that many who want to be compeditive, could add 4 more to make 12 team leagues).  2 conferences of 10 teams (18 game league).

Making it that everything below the Prem semi/barely pro would be a backward step in my opinion.

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Post by Irish Londoner on Fri 14 Feb 2020, 11:44 am

Brendan wrote:It is interesting to see the different takes between the French and English suits in running the game.

The French are on an active drive to have a three teirs of professional set-ups.  They know there are to many clubs in the South, so teams in the North are being given a chance to put forward being a professional club and will get fast tracked.  France currently has the top financial league in the world.  The top teams of the second teir has the financial muscle to compete with the smaller teams in the Pro14, Prem and SR.

England should do a structure along the lines of the following.  The question also that must be answered is who is responsible for clubs being professional.  Currently it seems it's the RFU's job but in France it is the club's job.  I would be interested to see the amount of money the RFU and FFR but into the club organisations.

Prem 12-14 teams with the bottom two having a promotion relegation playoff against the North and South Champs (or last relegated champs promoted)
Teir two would be the A teams for the 13 PRL members plus 7 more teams (As realistically there are only about that many who want to be compeditive, could add 4 more to make 12 team leagues).  2 conferences of 10 teams (18 game league).

Making it that everything below the Prem semi/barely pro would be a backward step in my opinion.

The biggest problem for professional rugby in terms of revising the league is the odd number of professional teams, it's always 12+1 which means that without getting at least one more side on board, one team is always going to have a free weekend.

Looking at the Championship the only possible contenders for that 14th sport are are Ealing, Pirates or Coventry, but they all have their problems - Ealing - do we need yet another London club - Pirates - maybe as/if/when their new stadium is built and even then can they get sustainable crowds, Coventry - too near Wasps and do we need another Midlands team?

I'd imagine that in an ideal world a team based in the north would be the best answer but Leeds are going down this year and may well go under completely in National One, Rotherham have already gone to N1 and Donny whilst a lovely and well run club are mid table and would need a big cash injection to compete at the top level.

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Post by Brendan on Fri 14 Feb 2020, 12:09 pm

Is London not big enough to support another team.

Who currently runs the 14th academy in Yorkshire.  I think someone said Yorkshire has the most Union clubs of any county in England.  Surely there could be  a regional team run by the county Union (If there is such a thing).

The problem in soccer with English players is they sit in the A/u23 league playing in games that don't matter in front of nobody.  When they hit 23/24 they are fit and in great shape but so far behind others in terms of experience, handling pressure, managing games etc.  If England go down the A league their rugby players will go the same way. A young player playing against stronger and more experince player in while not as skilful is smarter will teach the young player more than playing against other younger players.

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Post by lostinwales on Fri 14 Feb 2020, 12:58 pm

Brendan wrote:Is London not big enough to support another team.

Who currently runs the 14th academy in Yorkshire.  I think someone said Yorkshire has the most Union clubs of any county in England.  Surely there could be  a regional team run by the county Union (If there is such a thing).

The problem in soccer with English players is they sit in the A/u23 league playing in games that don't matter in front of nobody.  When they hit 23/24 they are fit and in great shape but so far behind others in terms of experience, handling pressure, managing games etc.  If England go down the A league their rugby players will go the same way.  A young player playing against stronger and more experince player in while not as skilful is smarter will teach the young player more than playing against other younger players.

Don't think there is much correlation between popularity of the amateur game and success of professional clubs. Thinking of Cornwall and Yorkshire in England, Valleys and Borders in Wales and Scotland.

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Post by Brendan on Fri 14 Feb 2020, 1:22 pm

lostinwales wrote:
Brendan wrote:Is London not big enough to support another team.

Who currently runs the 14th academy in Yorkshire.  I think someone said Yorkshire has the most Union clubs of any county in England.  Surely there could be  a regional team run by the county Union (If there is such a thing).

The problem in soccer with English players is they sit in the A/u23 league playing in games that don't matter in front of nobody.  When they hit 23/24 they are fit and in great shape but so far behind others in terms of experience, handling pressure, managing games etc.  If England go down the A league their rugby players will go the same way.  A young player playing against stronger and more experince player in while not as skilful is smarter will teach the young player more than playing against other younger players.

Don't think there is much correlation between popularity of the amateur game and success of professional clubs. Thinking of Cornwall and Yorkshire in England, Valleys and Borders in Wales and Scotland.

Yorkshire has a population of over 5 million so bigger than Wales and about the same as Ireland and Scotland. It has 10 towns of 50k. So it is a little different from village or small town rugby of the boarders or valleys

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Post by Margin_Walker on Fri 14 Feb 2020, 1:30 pm

Brendan wrote:It is interesting to see the different takes between the French and English suits in running the game.

The French are on an active drive to have a three teirs of professional set-ups.  They know there are to many clubs in the South, so teams in the North are being given a chance to put forward being a professional club and will get fast tracked.  France currently has the top financial league in the world.  The top teams of the second teir has the financial muscle to compete with the smaller teams in the Pro14, Prem and SR.

England should do a structure along the lines of the following.  The question also that must be answered is who is responsible for clubs being professional.  Currently it seems it's the RFU's job but in France it is the club's job.  I would be interested to see the amount of money the RFU and FFR but into the club organisations.

Prem 12-14 teams with the bottom two having a promotion relegation playoff against the North and South Champs (or last relegated champs promoted)
Teir two would be the A teams for the 13 PRL members plus 7 more teams (As realistically there are only about that many who want to be compeditive, could add 4 more to make 12 team leagues).  2 conferences of 10 teams (18 game league).

Making it that everything below the Prem semi/barely pro would be a backward step in my opinion.

Fundamental problem though is the market. The French ProD2 works because they get people in to watch it. Their attendances dwarf those in the Championship. 13 of the 16 clubs in the league recorded higher average attendances than the best supported Championship club last season (LI).

It's incredibly difficult (basically impossible) to make professionalism work in the second tier in England without a large union subsidy. For that to change there would have to be a big spike in punters through the gates.

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Post by Irish Londoner on Fri 14 Feb 2020, 2:40 pm

Brendan wrote:Is London not big enough to support another team.

Who currently runs the 14th academy in Yorkshire.  I think someone said Yorkshire has the most Union clubs of any county in England.  Surely there could be  a regional team run by the county Union (If there is such a thing).

Yorkshire would be the logical place to set up the 14th team but it would require a lot of investment - the guy who funded Leeds pulled out at very short notice last season, leaving the club in a complete state financially and they haven't won a game this season, their landlords Leeds RL seem quite keen to be shot of them from Headingley as well - possibly under pressure from the RL fans who are constantly complaining about the condition of the pitch.

I find it quite strange as there's much more money in union than league at the top level and the comparatively small investment to get Leeds into the top division would easily be made back from the extra revenue they'd get. If I won the lottery.......

The other two Yorkshire teams - Doncaster have a good little set up but not the money to move further forwards, they seem to feel that they've found their level at the Championship - rather like Bedford or London Scottish, and Rotherham are at the lower end of National One.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Fri 14 Feb 2020, 3:00 pm

If you were going to set up a club in Yorkshire you'd have to put together some serious funding. The Leeds/Yorkshire dump of a club has burned through any remaining goodwill they might have had with their antics. Rotherham were a good club a couple of years back but have fallen on hard times. The only logical spend for the money would be on Doncaster and upscaling them to prem level. The would be ideally placed being not too far south like say Sheffield but also not being too north west where everything becomes very rugby league.

Still doesn't matter the RFU don't care enough about growing the game to do anything remotely meaningful.

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Post by Brendan on Fri 14 Feb 2020, 3:57 pm

Again it comes back to whose job is it to fund professional rugby and what is the best use of the RFU funds to maintain interest across the whole country

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Wed 19 Feb 2020, 9:52 am

Copied from another forum...response from the Nottingham Chairman.

For immediate release: Tuesday 18 February, 2020
Issued on behalf of Nottingham Rugby

Open Letter From Our Chairman

Is the RFU becoming a governing body for just the few?

Dear fellow rugby supporter

Having had the opportunity to digest what actually happened last week after receiving the letter from Bill Sweeney on Tuesday, I used my time on Sunday to do a trawl of the media, in an attempt to gain a better understanding of how the rugby community had reacted to the news of the RFU funding cuts to the Greene King IPA Championship.

In truth, I was overwhelmed. The majority of media coverage was extremally supportive, but it was the views of those from the grassroot rugby community, including those in the national leagues, that I found most inspiring. Yes, there was also positive support from those around the ‘elite game’, but it was the players, volunteers and supporters from ‘everyday rugby’ that caught my eye; and this is why I thought I had better share my latest views more widely.

All rugby clubs at some point in their life will need some support and Nottingham Rugby have not been immune to this. I have been at Nottingham now for 13 years and have seen us fighting legal battles down at Meadow Lane and having to save the club when our last owners came into financial difficulties back in 2014.

At that time, I decided that I would not let Nottingham Rugby fall from grace again and embarked upon getting Nottingham back on its feet, operating a sustainable model down at The Bay alongside our partner club on site, Nottingham Corsairs. At no time did I think that this would be easy. However, I did not expect our own governing body to pull the rug from underneath us!

I was one of those people in the room at Twickenham last Tuesday when Bill Sweeney delivered his ‘killer’ blow. Yes, the removal of 50% of our funding was devastating, but the real anger was borne through the manner that it was done. He sat there, cold, stone-faced and delivered his presentation, trying to justify the cuts on his obviously flawed reasons.

It felt like I was being made redundant and then being asked to watch a presentation on why I was being made redundant. Yes, I was angry, and emotions were running high, however, during the couple of hours that he was with us, I witnessed no emotion from Bill whatsoever and to me, it was obvious that this decision had been made many months ago. I do not particularly blame Conor O’Shea, as he has just arrived at the RFU and in truth probably knows very little on how the Championship clubs operate, or what benefits we deliver to the game of rugby.

Having now listened and read Bill’s further press statements, my opinion has not changed. In fact, I see someone who comes over very uncaring, particularly for a man in his position as CEO of OUR governing body. His explanation about the rationale for the cuts being that the Championship clubs had failed to meet “a set of objectives and deliverables”, is nothing more than a smokescreen and is in fact a diversion tactic to align himself and the RFU more with ‘Elite’ Rugby and the recent CVC investment.

Before he continues wielding the axe any further, perhaps Bill should examine what value the RFU have been getting from their £228m investment into PRL since 2016. In fact, it was only 18 months ago that funding in the community game was cut by 10% and this was explained as a cost saving exercise. Yet, just last week, Bill stated that the RFU financials “were now in a good place’’.

Nottingham, like many Championship clubs, still operates at a loss - albeit a much smaller one now. I, like I am sure every other shareholder throughout the game, invests personal money not to generate a return, but because I love the game and want to see rugby thrive, at every level. Only last month one of my businesses provided a donation to Melbourne Rugby Club to assist their junior teams on their annual rugby tour this coming April. Without financial support, no rugby club would exist, and we all need each other to survive.

Since Nottingham moved back to The Bay, the professional club infrastructure that we have developed and are continuing to develop, has helped Nottingham Corsairs amateur club. The amateur club benefits by running the clubhouse bar on our match days and we work together to ensure the best possible facility is available for players of all age and ability. I am sure many, if not all other clubs operate in a similar way. Without RFU financial support in the community game, this simply would not happen.

Like many others, Nottingham work closely with other local clubs and our constituent body. We host county finals days here at The Bay, including the recently announced junior events from u12s to u16s and we have started linking to a growing game in local state schools, hosting a new annual festival. Much media coverage has been made of local community outreach programmes, Nottingham’s stretches across the county and further afield, with our coaches helping children get exposure to the game of rugby from an age as early as just two or three; and our grounds team have assisted local clubs with preparing and maintaining their own pitches and facilities.

Local engagement also stretches to our partnership with Nottingham Trent University, where the rugby programme has enabled NTU to develop their rugby offer and be competitive at the top tier of the British Universities and Colleges Sports (BUCS) competition. It has also enabled their players to experience Championship league and cup rugby on a regular basis with Nottingham. I am aware of other Championship and National League clubs that have similar initiatives through Higher and Further Education.

And, just last week, one of our coaches and a fellow player, were called up to represent England U20s – I was under the impression from Bill that this pathway was failing?

Over the next few weeks, Nottingham Rugby along with the other Championship Clubs, will be investigating our options for the future, but for now, we should not forget where we have come from and the importance of grassroots rugby as a whole. Rugby starts and finishes in our local communities and relies on thousands of coaches, supporters, volunteers and staff to ensure the game is enjoyed by so many.

I have seen nothing over the last few days from anyone in the RFU acknowledging this. It has all been about “value for money”, or “return on investment”. What about the RFU’s responsibility for the game, for the players, the coaches, the supporters, the rugby community!?

I am sure this ‘corporate social responsibility’ already extends beyond the RFU, where those who invest in the game, do so, not for a return on investment, but in order to satisfy a personal or organisational obligation. They contribute because they care, about children playing, adults volunteering, a community thriving.

Rugby does not start with the elite. In fact, it starts in our schools and our local clubs. Is it not time that the RFU acknowledge this and remind themselves that the ‘RFU is not for the Few’?

Without community clubs and the National Leagues, the Championship would not survive and more importantly, neither would Twickenham. It’s the people in these clubs that support rugby, it’s these people that fill the stadium during internationals. Bill Sweeney may well need reminding of this when England host Ireland at the weekend.

I will be one of the thousands lucky enough to be there on Sunday, cheering on England and helping prop up the RFU coffers, but in truth, it will be all the people that support rugby in the community that I will be thinking of – that’s where rugby really begins. I will be showing my support and I hope the rest of the rugby community will too.

Before I head to Twickenham, I will be at The Bay, where Nottingham Rugby host Doncaster Knights on Friday in the cup. I will be leading the charge and showing our ‘supporters’ that we have not forgotten about them. At half-time, we will be standing and carrying out a two minutes applause, thanking everyone involved in rugby for keeping the game alive. Supporters, players, coaches, volunteers and the rest of the rugby community should not be forgotten, regardless of what club, or league we play in.

I urge all clubs to support this and I am aware that many other championship and national league clubs have already given their backing. So, please show your support at the weekend, regardless of when and what time you are playing, take a picture, share on social media and lets’ show that rugby is for the many and not the few.

#RFU4THEFEW

Yours sincerely

Alistair Bow

Chairman, Nottingham Rugby

GeordieFalcon

Posts : 21882
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle

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