Glasgow and Edinburgh ongoing banter thread 24 - Covid funtimes

[RDW]

First topic message reminder :

Previous gibberish

https://www.606v2.com/t69038p1050-glasgow-and-edinburgh-banter-thread-no-23-new-season-new-thread

Fixtures

Glasgow - none

Edinburgh - none

Scotland - none

[Hazel Sapling]

R Gray is probably on a wedge but at this point, it will probably be appearance based or nowhere near what it was when he was at Toulouse to be fair.

Hamish Bain has gone to Glasgow. With R Gray - Cummings, the starting locks are sorted and McDonald - Harley are fine as a second choice. Bain is competing for fifth choice. We could do with another young, up and coming lock like Sykes or Henderson, not a big name though Nakarawa would at least cover six for us.

Could we exchange Price for Crosbie?

[funnyExiledScot]

Gilchrist, Toolis, Charmichael, McKenzie, Davidson, Sykes

Quite the selection!

Very decent options. The Edinburgh MD also announced today that the majority of season tickets holders have waived compensation for their tickets this year (vouchers and refunds were offered). Great show of support for the club.

[RDW]

Gilchrist, Toolis, Charmichael, McKenzie, Davidson, Sykes

Quite the selection!

Very decent options. The Edinburgh MD also announced today that the majority of season tickets holders have waived compensation for their tickets this year (vouchers and refunds were offered). Great show of support for the club.

Great show of support, and in line with what most sports clubs are seeing just now.

[RDW]

Nakarawa signs on for Glasgow for another year.

Weegies can stop moaning now!

[Hazel Sapling]

Nakarawa signs on for Glasgow for another year.

Weegies can stop moaning now!

Still need a young back-rower and/or a back three player. Danny Wilson really has to be getting regular playing time for Ollie Smith, Nairn and Ross Thompson next season.

[NeilyBroon]

Nakarawa signs on for Glasgow for another year.

Weegies can stop moaning now!

Good bit of business there. Fiji don't have many intls coming up either so his availability to play will be good presuming he doesn't bugger off to Fiji for an extended holiday again.

Now to actually replace 2 seasons worth of players leaving...

[NeilyBroon]

Nakarawa signs on for Glasgow for another year.

Weegies can stop moaning now!

Still need a young back-rower and/or a back three player. Danny Wilson really has to be getting regular playing time for Ollie Smith, Nairn and Ross Thompson next season.

The longer it gets the more I think this will be the strategy for replacement, draw from what's left of Glasgow's academy (which at the rate Edinburgh are recruiting will be one man and his dog).

[EST]

Great singing that - delighted. Get McDonald signed up again, Bain as the fifth lock and things aren't looking too bad in the tight 5.

1. Kebble, Seuli
2. Brown, Turner/Dolokota
3. Fagerson, Pierreto
4/5. Cummings, Nakarawa, Gray, McDonald

Now, just to sort out our BR and back three....

[jimbopip]

Great singing that - delighted.  Get McDonald signed up again, Bain as the fifth lock and things aren't looking too bad in the tight 5.

1. Kebble, Seuli
2. Brown, Turner/Dolokota
3. Fagerson, Pierreto
4/5. Cummings, Nakarawa, Gray, McDonald

Now, just to sort out our BR and back three....

EST, don't forget

Allan-Stewart-Rae in the front row.
Hamish Bain in the second row.

In the back row there's Jale Vakololamo (I think) who hasn't played yet and will, in effect, be a new signing. he's a 6/second row rather like the Giant Red Crayon. So, that could be considered 7 second rows. Jale-Fagerson(middle)- Mullett could be some back row. BigBadBob-Arthuer Ashe-Batman is none too shabby either.

I expect Robbie Nairn and Ratu Tagive to get a lot of game time this season and either Ollie Smith or Rufus McLean to sign, or possibly both.

[123456789.]

I was thoroughly confused seeing some of the Nakarawa stuff, I guessed correctly that he had signed a new contract but part of me did wonder if "The Offload King is going nowhere" was the opening gambit in some form of hostage situation.
As has been said Glasgow's tight five is really starting to shape up. There's raw talent in the back row. Ashe, Gordon and Fagerson has the makings of a workmanlike back-row. Harley will still be in the mixer too.

Overall Glasgow have a strong tight five and a strong midfield. The back-row is passable. The back three needs serious work.

I'd never heard of Jale Vakololamo until just then, in fact I googled Jake Vakolomo having misread the name when I saw it and not one result came up. Why is it that he hasn't played? Injured or just pish?

[jimbopip]

The Jale injured a shoulder, either in pre-season or in his first training session and hasn't been seen since. However, his picture on arriving at Glasgow airport made him look like Shrek's fatter brother so maybe he's been trying to get into shape. if that was him after a season in Fiji I dread to think what his post Lockdown weight will be.

[Hazel Sapling]

1) Kebble, Seuli, Allan, Capps/McQuillan (not sure on those last two)
2) Brown, Turner, Stewart, Dolokoto, Matthews?
3) Fagerson, Rae, Pierreto, Nicol, Mclaren/Walker? (is Dan Gamble Edinburgh? got a good write up by offside line)

Front row looks good, goes three deep in terms of international caps or good club players with decent youngsters behind

4/5) Cummings, Nakarawa, R Gray, McDonald, Harley, Bain

A bit old but Cummings and McDonald are in their mid-20s. Could have done with another youngster for depth as R Gray is a injury risk and Cummings will likely be away on internationals frequently next season.

BR) Wilson - M Fagerson - Gordon
     Flockhart - Ashe - Fusaro
     Vakaloloma - Brown - Jackson

There is a clear lack of quality depth as Ashe really was not relied on last season by Rennie. Going to keep banging the drum for a Crosbie or Gary Graham to put people in a more natural depth position (We are two injuries away (including Ashe) from either bringing Harley/Nakarawa across or playing a youngster)

Agree with numbers, the front five can compete with the Leinster's and Munster's of the world. The back-row is missing a player of real quality to drive standards. Certainly a good enough pack to compete for a QF in Champions Cup and have a good tilt at the Pro14.

[Brendan]

Will be interesting to see what happens with the English player wage disputes but in a 24 team tournament both must fancy their chances of  knockout rugby. Apart from Exeter I don't think any of the English teams would worry the top 6 Pro14 teams in Europe. Saints got through but were run close by Benetton. No Sarries.

With the stars that have been leaving Glasgow over the last couple of years it is good to see them keeping Nakarawa.

[EST]

1) Kebble, Seuli, Allan, Capps/McQuillan (not sure on those last two)
2) Brown, Turner, Stewart, Dolokoto, Matthews?
3) Fagerson, Rae, Pierreto, Nicol, Mclaren/Walker? (is Dan Gamble Edinburgh? got a good write up by offside line)

Front row looks good, goes three deep in terms of international caps or good club players with decent youngsters behind

4/5) Cummings, Nakarawa, R Gray, McDonald, Harley, Bain

A bit old but Cummings and McDonald are in their mid-20s. Could have done with another youngster for depth as R Gray is a injury risk and Cummings will likely be away on internationals frequently next season.

BR) Wilson - M Fagerson - Gordon
     Flockhart - Ashe - Fusaro
     Vakaloloma - Brown - Jackson

There is a clear lack of quality depth as Ashe really was not relied on last season by Rennie. Going to keep banging the drum for a Crosbie or Gary Graham to put people in a more natural depth position (We are two injuries away (including Ashe) from either bringing Harley/Nakarawa across or playing a youngster)

Agree with numbers, the front five can compete with the Leinster's and Munster's of the world. The back-row is missing a player of real quality to drive standards. Certainly a good enough pack to compete for a QF in Champions Cup and have a good tilt at the Pro14.

Agree on the BR, decent enough choices but missing a real quality operator. Worryingly, there doesn't really seem to be anybody coming through from the academy in that area.

Hopefully Jale can make a big impression, but i'd still say we need a quality 7 to replace Gibbins and support Gordon.

[NeilyBroon]

How about the hard horse? Similar mold to gibbins, only across the boarder. Could do a season or two at Glasgow before retirement? Maybe even have a last hurrah for Scotland.

[BigGee]

I see Matt Smith has announced his retirement from rugby this afternoon.

He says he no longer has the motivation to train and that is hardly surprising given his lack of game time over the past season and the lack of any obvious new opportunities coming his way.

I have to say that this is a shame as he was a player of considerable promise, who was strangely ignored by DR pretty much all of last season. He was undoubtedly good enough to have had a decent professional career and maybe even get capped, we have played worst OSs than him over the years for sure.

It all comes down to the perineal problem in Scotland of how to give good young players the opportunities they need to develop. One injury for him and his subsequent fall down the pecking order at Glasgow seems to have done it for him.

Fortunately he seems to have something lined up for the future, so good luck to him with whatever he decides to pursue.

[Hazel Sapling]

It is a shame BG, he appeared to have the talent to push on as a professional. Rugby is going to be a bear market for players over the next decade and, if a Scots club is not keen on M Smith, does he really want to go play Championship rugby in England or Super Six rugby for a pittance in the hope he can make it to the top level again or does he move on with life in something else he wants to do?

[NeilyBroon]

Aye, you do wonder if we had a third pro team whether some of these players would feature in a Scotland shirt.

Pie in the sky though, I know it's not feasible, just seems a big shame as there is a lot to like about Matt Smith as a player. His happiness is most important though so all the best to him in his endeavours post-rugby.

[funnyExiledScot]

With Gray, Cummings and Nakarawa all signed up, what does the 1st choice lock pairing look like? Any chance of Nakarawa playing at 6? You could try to balance that out with Gordon and Fagerson at 7 and 8.

[bsando]

Shame to see Smith retire, but I think it is a brave decision from him. Hopefully he'll do well in the next phase of his career.

Not to sound harsh, but when the third pro team is brought up as a possibility I always think it would need to be executed at the right time. Wales seem to have had a lot of problems with their regions and I'd hate to see Scotland go down that path, even if it does allow one or two more Scottish players to play regular pro rugby. Also, would a third Scottish pro side even be eligible or desirable for the Pro14 competition?

If I had it my way and the cash was available, we'd lose one Irish and one Welsh side, add the best five SA teams and the Jaguares to create a Pro 16. The format would remain the same as it is and you'd have two conferences to make it Wales 3, Ireland 3, Italy 2, Sco 2, SA 5, Arg 1 initially.

For the sides that are dropped/left out, they become part of a new league in the style of the Pro Rugby D2 or Championship that could be a great way to feed club sides from Ireland, Wales, Sco, Italy, SA and European countries like Georgia, Russia, Romania etc.

That would make having a 3rd Scottish side a much more attractive proposition if you asked me. There wouldn't be as much pressure on the SRU to make it work. I'd definitely watch the games, it would be fascinating to see a Georgian club side take on a SA club side for example. I'm sure it would be a very competitive and entertaining competition but i'm guessing logistically it would be very hard to enact.

[BigGee]

With Gray, Cummings and Nakarawa all signed up, what does the 1st choice lock pairing look like? Any chance of Nakarawa playing at 6? You could try to balance that out with Gordon and Fagerson at 7 and 8.

You can bet your life that if they are all fit and available, then we would want them all in our starting XV.

Naks is just as good in the back row and I am sure we will see him play there from time to time.

[BigGee]

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/there-is-a-danger-glasgow-is-seen-as-a-retirement-home-for-fondly-remembered-veterans-but-nakarawa-remains-a-unique-game-breaking-weapon/

A good Rugby Pass article on just what a fit and firing Nakarawa might mean to the Warriors!

[123456789.]

I've always been a big fan of Scotland having three or even four professional teams. Unfortunately there is just not the money or the players in Scottish rugby to add in a third team currently. Rugby's financial model is, frankly, buggered as it is. There's more money in English rugby, they have a top class rugby team for roughly every 5 million people and their clubs are still haemorrhaging money. In Scotland we have a top class team for every 2.5 million people. To go to three teams would spread that further. The other issue is that Scotland's rugby heartland does not have the population to sustain a full time professional side as was shown the last time it was tried. Aberdeen and Dundee, the largest cities without a rugby side, were not deemed right to host a Super 6 side which wouldn't bode well.

As I've said the ambition should be to increase to three and eventually four sides. I can't see us competing with the top sides in the world with only two sides. The SRU would either have to find a financial backer, sell Glasgow or Edinburgh or finance three full teams themselves. I think in the short term going down the 'Loan Manager route' that a lot of football teams have might be an option. Building up a portfolio of about thirty-fifty players, and sending them on loan to teams in the Premiership, Top 14 and London Scottish.

[NeilyBroon]

The issue with the loan management approach is these players need to be able to showcase their talents to get a loan out. Look at Matt Smith and his retirement for an example of that

I like bsandos idea of a proper tier two for the Celtic nations. The teams already exist and could be a cheap way for the BBC to broadcast rugby now that CVC will probably be heading toward the Sky/BT route for the 6Ns. Free rugby for all on S4C, Alba and RTE, as well as a chance for these players to put down a marker. If these teams get enough of a local following one could get backing to go full pro. England has just had far longer than it's Celtic neighbours to develop the club game. It's more an evolution over the last 200 years of traditional clubs and leagues here.

The only way we can potentially get another club in future is developing the grassroots game more. Super 6 is a good step but I think we need to be competing outside of Scotland to see real benefits, as the difference in English championship sides and super 6 sides is considerable.

[Hazel Sapling]

Loan manager role seems to be where we were headed with London Scots and Stade Nicosie. With London Scots and the Championship being defunded, maybe Newcastle would make sense to loan guys like Paddy Kelly, M Smith (R(etire)IP), Fenton, McCallum, Fife, Hodgson and Sykes? Unfortunately Richards seems to only want veterans.

A third side should be the goal eventually in either Aberdeen or Dundee. Dundee would be interesting as a football town and Perth down the road as an additional catchment area. As it is in the former royal centre of Scone it would allow great opportunities to find sponsorship with Bonne Maman and Rodda's. Before that though, Glasgow and Edinburgh need to be settled in stadiums and attracting 10k fans a week.

Super Six is a good start towards a second tier and should be/is FTA(?). Ireland with their four A sides would potentially be a solution to create a 10 team league (18 games), however that will have to be once we are back playing in full houses again. SRU are going to be tightening the purse strings for a year or two.

[NeilyBroon]

Well good news on the Champions Cup - December is a nice time to start.

Hopefully that means we'll see the Pro14 starting mid October rather than November to allow teams to get up to speed.

It's all beginning to settle a little! (until everyone gets infected for round 2...)

[RDW]

https://medium.com/@thethistlerugby/the-quest-for-a-3rd-pro-team-in-scotland-d6482bd3857a

Probably one of the most in-depth articles about a 3rd pro team that I've seen.

[TJ]

Not been on here for a while - I thought there was nowt to talk about but I just enjoyed reading the ten pages of drivel for the odd nugget therein

Ta

[tigertattie]

Not been on here for a while - I thought there was nowt to talk about but I just enjoyed reading the ten pages of drivel for the odd nugget therein

Ta

Thats no way to refer to Jimbo. He prefers the term "venerable"

[jimbopip]

Ah tattie it's a rare day when you and I aren't swapping compliments. Get back to Niddrie ya rank bad schemie that year are.

[Hazel Sapling]

https://medium.com/@thethistlerugby/the-quest-for-a-3rd-pro-team-in-scotland-d6482bd3857a

Probably one of the most in-depth articles about a 3rd pro team that I've seen.

Good piece. As someone who works in oil & gas, Aberdeen may be at risk for long term decline unless it can become an engineering hub (and Norway open up a bit). It has a shot at doing that but money may not be thrown around like it would have from 2005 - 2014 (before the crash, the time of US$100/bbl). Aberdeen does seem to be the most natural solution though. A busy international airport for teams to come into, a wealthy population and the ability to generate an identity as representing the highlands and islands.

A third team is a decade away financially I would think. The SRU will want to have Glasgow and Edinburgh almost self-sustaining and running a good surplus (£3 million+) before taking the plunge. Covid has taken the £20 million bounce and thrown it down the drain.

[LondonTiger]

It all comes down to the perineal problem in Scotland of how to give good young players the opportunities they need to develop. One injury for him and his subsequent fall down the pecking order at Glasgow seems to have done it for him.

Just one typo can have a massive affect on how a sentence may be interpreted.

[jimbopip]

As MrsPip just said, " As a national failing that's a bit of an issue."

[king_carlos]

It all comes down to the perineal problem in Scotland of how to give good young players the opportunities they need to develop. One injury for him and his subsequent fall down the pecking order at Glasgow seems to have done it for him.

Just one typo can have a massive affect on how a sentence may be interpreted.

Cockers is well known to give out a perineal kicking to underperforming players so probably explains why he's doing so well with Edinburgh...

[EST]

It all comes down to the perineal problem in Scotland of how to give good young players the opportunities they need to develop. One injury for him and his subsequent fall down the pecking order at Glasgow seems to have done it for him.

Just one typo can have a massive affect on how a sentence may be interpreted.

Cockers is well known to give out a perineal kicking to underperforming players so probably explains why he's doing so well with Edinburgh...

[BigGee]

You'd think, being a nurse, i might have got that one right!

[jimbopip]

I'm just glad you weren't anywhere near my vasectomy.

[TheMildlyFranticLlama]

Cockers playing down the Gloucester links and saying he’s very open to extending his contract with Edinburgh, great news!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/53193848

[funnyExiledScot]

That is great news. He's critical to Edinburgh, and we really don't want to lose him having reestablished our rightful place as the premier club team in Scotland.

Gloucester is a basket case, and has been for some time. Cockerill is probably exactly what they need, but hands off.

[RDW]

https://www.theoffsideline.com/richard-cockerill-nathan-chamberlain/amp/?v=6cc98ba2045f&__twitter_impression=true

More detailed interview - he claims Edinburgh have a smaller budget than Glasgow!

He also says Chamberlain is going to get his chance.

He also says they're looking to recruit another back row and back 3 player - we've already got hunners, but we're going to lose s big chunk of them to internationals.

[bsando]

https://www.theoffsideline.com/richard-cockerill-nathan-chamberlain/amp/?v=6cc98ba2045f&__twitter_impression=true

More detailed interview - he claims Edinburgh have a smaller budget than Glasgow!

He also says Chamberlain is going to get his chance.

He also says they're looking to recruit another back row and back 3 player - we've already got hunners, but we're going to lose s big chunk of them to internationals.

https://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/story/_/id/29364771/scotland-strauss-leaves-bulls-pay-cut

Josh Strauss is a free agent. Maybe he could play for Edinburgh? Decent bloke to have. Not sure what he wants to be doing though in terms of his career and family.

[RDW]

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/matt-scott-edinburgh-rugby-leicester-tigers-richard-cockerill/

Matt Scott speaks, showing the brutal reality of professional sport. Disappointing to hear his side of the story - he was offered a deal, given a deadline to accept it, accepted it within said deadline and was told the deal never existed. Doesn't sound like something that Cockers would do, but if it was the SRU managing it...

[BigGee]

I just read that as well and it was sobering reading, as he said himself, it has worked out ok for him, but not for other decent players who have been left high and dry.

Professional sport is a brutal old business at times, as are plenty of other aspects of the real world currently.

[king_carlos]

A really interesting read that thanks RDW. As you say sobering at times, particularly in the circumstances of their first child on the way and clearly feeling settled in Edinburgh. It's a great city to raise a child in to be fair.

If he was released so that Edinburgh could sign a replacement for Hickey that would suggest that Jono Lance was signed with the cash he was initially offered. Given that contract then fell through I'd imagine Cockers is not in the best mood about the whole saga.

On a more positive note, I'm genuinely very excited about Scott joining Tigers. Our midfield has been inconsistent at best since Anthony Allen retired. Scott is a fantastic inside centre which is precisely what Tigers are lacking. There's a lot to be negative about currently with lots of contracts up in the air Ford/Scott/Tuilagi is fantastic midfield.

[funnyExiledScot]

Brutal stuff. So pleased that Scott has landed on his feet. He's a wonderful 12 on the surge, and has played some great stuff this season.

[bsando]

A really interesting read that thanks RDW. As you say sobering at times, particularly in the circumstances of their first child on the way and clearly feeling settled in Edinburgh. It's a great city to raise a child in to be fair.

If he was released so that Edinburgh could sign a replacement for Hickey that would suggest that Jono Lance was signed with the cash he was initially offered. Given that contract then fell through I'd imagine Cockers is not in the best mood about the whole saga.

On a more positive note, I'm genuinely very excited about Scott joining Tigers. Our midfield has been inconsistent at best since Anthony Allen retired. Scott is a fantastic inside centre which is precisely what Tigers are lacking. There's a lot to be negative about currently with lots of contracts up in the air Ford/Scott/Tuilagi is fantastic midfield.

Yep! I think Scott could be a vital cog for the Leicester backline becoming a more dangerous beast. Scott cuts very good lines so I'm sure he'll do well with Tuilagi outside him (assuming he's playing at 12). I'll certainly be interested to see how he progresses at Tigers. You've just got to hope he can stay injury free. However, before covid came along, he was building a nice run of form at Edinburgh.

[tigertattie]

In the spirit of banter, I'll just say that Scott is still a better all round 12 than Johnson is.

[tigertattie]

bored at work?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFukyIIM1XI

Uber annoying song, but when they start playing it backwards, it sounds like a Haka!

[RDW]

https://twitter.com/johnbarc86/status/1277541675179663362?s=19

John Barclay saying it as it is. I'm sure he's going to have a lot to say about the SRU now he's no longer employed by them.

[jimbopip]

Great singing that - delighted.  Get McDonald signed up again, Bain as the fifth lock and things aren't looking too bad in the tight 5.

1. Kebble, Seuli
2. Brown, Turner/Dolokota
3. Fagerson, Pierreto
4/5. Cummings, Nakarawa, Gray, McDonald

Now, just to sort out our BR and back three....

EST, don't forget

Allan-Stewart-Rae in the front row.
Hamish Bain in the second row.

In the back row there's Jale Vakololamo (I think) who hasn't played yet and will, in effect, be a new signing. he's a 6/second row rather like the Giant Red Crayon. So, that could be considered 7 second rows. Jale-Fagerson(middle)- Mullett could be some back row. BigBadBob-Arthuer Ashe-Batman is none too shabby either.

I expect Robbie Nairn and Ratu Tagive to get a lot of game time this season and either Ollie Smith or Rufus McLean to sign, or possibly both.

Rufus Mclean has signed

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