The Trump Presidency

by Duty281 Wed 04 Nov 2020, 5:17 am

First topic message reminder :

Well we'll wait and see about Arizona. Pundits seem to think it's a done deal; they don't seem to have considered it's only Election Day votes left to count.

Ohio called, but Texas and Florida not, which is very poor. Iowa should be called soon for Trump. Trump with healthy leads in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania...he needs 'em if Arizona's going blue.

Georgia seems to be faltering for Trump, but he's still ahead for now. North Carolina's probably in recount territory. unless Trump has more votes to secure it.

This mainstream media bias is quite something. Trump 49-48 ahead in Montana, 50% voted...oh yeah, that's too close to call. Trump 50-48 ahead in Virginia, 76% voted....oh yeah, we're calling that for Biden.

by **Pr4wn** Wed 06 Jan 2021, 9:10 am

king_carlos wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:It looks as though the Democrats have split the Senate, giving them control when you take into account Kamala Harris' deciding vote.

Trump has done a fantastic job of unifying his opponents and galvanising the African American vote in Georgia, I'll give him that.
Mitch McConnell's grip on the senate slipping.

It has slipped. He'll no longer be the leader.

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 06 Jan 2021, 11:54 am

This is immensely satisfying. Senior Republicans knew who Trump was in 2016 - they're on the record about him. But he was popular with his base, and that was more important to them than anything else. They let him do whatever he wanted in office, no matter how crooked, how unethical, how self-serving. Now they've lost it all, and they deserve it. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch.

by **navyblueshorts** Wed 06 Jan 2021, 6:59 pm

Assuming the projections are correct, it's pretty good news. With any luck, some of Trump's enablers will catch it bigly in the near future. Covfefe!

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

by **navyblueshorts** Wed 06 Jan 2021, 7:27 pm

Scenes on the BBS News and some of the news from US media outlets are quite something just now - never thought I'd see this in the US, but I guess it shows that we are never far from dictatorship.

by Samo Wed 06 Jan 2021, 8:04 pm

Protesters have stormed the Capitol building and the house is in lockdown. What the Frak is going on?

by king_carlos Wed 06 Jan 2021, 9:07 pm

Samo wrote:Protesters have stormed the Capitol building and the house is in lockdown. What the Frak is going on?

Mob of white republican voters storm the Capitol with reports of one woman shot, Trump tweets requesting them to "remain peaceful".

People of colour peacefully protest instituisionalised racism outside the White House, protesters are tear-gassed to allow for a photo op.

Worth noting that Trump finished his rally speech by asking supporters to march to the Capitol and protest the electoral college vote certification.

FUBAR

by GSC Wed 06 Jan 2021, 9:30 pm

Somehow I can't help but feel this is Keir Starmers fault

by **navyblueshorts** Wed 06 Jan 2021, 9:40 pm

GSC wrote:Somehow I can't help but feel this is Keir Starmers fault

Thanks for that +ve contribution...

by MonkeyMan Wed 06 Jan 2021, 10:31 pm

Trump's "anti-protest" speech will surely now put him down in history as the most openly mad person ever to hold office

by alfie Thu 07 Jan 2021, 12:27 am

Gets worse. The unfortunate young woman who was shot has now died. Can only hope there will not be further bloodshed as a result of the mob stirring by this crazy demagogue .

UK people might rightly lament the incompetence of Boris and co but should at least be thankful they haven't had a complete nutter like Trump running the show.

by **Pr4wn** Thu 07 Jan 2021, 7:39 am

Is the USA great again yet?

by **superflyweight** Thu 07 Jan 2021, 9:18 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
GSC wrote:Somehow I can't help but feel this is Keir Starmers fault
Thanks for that +ve contribution...

I welcomed the levity.

by dummy_half Thu 07 Jan 2021, 9:22 am

OK, now there really is no choice:
Trump to be arrested and charged with sedition, along with any of the protestors who were inside the Capitol Building perimeter.

I also wonder if the Republicans will invoke the 25th Amendment* and remove Trump from office today / tomorrow - I think it will depend on how he acts in light of the protests.

*Would give us President Pence for the next 2 weeks, and perhaps a more orderly transition.

by Soul Requiem Thu 07 Jan 2021, 9:45 am

Republicans seem to have forgotten the theft that was the 2000 presidential election.

by **Pr4wn** Thu 07 Jan 2021, 9:49 am

I mean, this has all the hallmarks of a coup. Why isn't it being called a coup?

by Mind the windows Tino. Thu 07 Jan 2021, 9:55 am

Pr4wn wrote:I mean, this has all the hallmarks of a coup. Why isn't it being called a coup?

Because Western democracies like to think we are better than the rest of the world and coups only happen in those "sh*thole" African countries that Trump alluded to a few years back.

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 07 Jan 2021, 9:57 am

The lesson from all this should be: stop telling people or encouraging them to believe things that you know not to be true, just because it'll benefit you politically. But it won't stop, because some people value power over anything else.

As Mitt Romney said a few hours ago: respect the electorate. Tell them the truth.

by **JuliusHMarx** Thu 07 Jan 2021, 9:59 am

Trump may actually be deranged enough to believe the stuff he's saying.

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 07 Jan 2021, 10:16 am

It's not Trump I'm talking about, it's the hundreds of his enablers in Congress and in right-wing media, who know perfectly well that he lost the election fair and square, but who saw opportunity in agreeing with him. I hope they're all finished.

by **superflyweight** Thu 07 Jan 2021, 10:17 am

Reading Bob Woodward's latest book on Trump at the moment. There's a quote by Dan Coats who was the first National Security Adviser appointed by Trump in which he says that when Trump says something, it becomes a fact in Trump's head, regardless of whether or not it bears any resemblance to the truth.

by BamBam Thu 07 Jan 2021, 10:19 am

Remember Johnson and his crew of bootlickers were happy to illegally suspend Parliament to get their way

Is it really that much of a big leap from that to what happened in DC yesterday? This is what happens when you embolden racists using nationalism

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 07 Jan 2021, 10:22 am

Another (hopefully) clear lesson is how unhealthy it is to humour and indulge an appalling man all his life just because he's rich and / or has a following. Why would he change when his behaviour is rewarded?

If ever a man needed slapping down, it's Trump.

by lostinwales Thu 07 Jan 2021, 11:11 am

Somebody on twitter flagged up that the Mike Pence account stopped following Trump and changed its headline banner to a shot of Biden and Harris.

I also understand that the main social media platforms (including twitter) have suspended Trump's accounts.

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 07 Jan 2021, 11:23 am

There's been 25th amendment talk among Trump's cabinet.

by Samo Thu 07 Jan 2021, 11:24 am

Apparently congresswoman Ilhan Omar has already drawn up impeachment plans. It'll be interesting to see if this comes to fruition or if they'll just invoke the 25th Amendment and put Pence in for a fortnight to ensure a peaceful transition.

by GSC Thu 07 Jan 2021, 11:56 am

Trump being a narcissist can't accept he lost, particularly to a weak candidate like Biden. The bigger issue is the politicians that have now shown they really have no credibility or morals, and will do anything for political gain, Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley being the obvious examples. Even Mitch, the most cynical of career politicians, stuck the knife into trump yesterday.

by **navyblueshorts** Thu 07 Jan 2021, 3:25 pm

GSC wrote:...The bigger issue is the politicians that have now shown they really have no credibility or morals, and will do anything for political gain, Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley being the obvious examples. Even Mitch, the most cynical of career politicians, stuck the knife into trump yesterday.

Absolutely. Not sure how anything can or will be done about Cruz etc until they're next up for election and even then, people generally will have largely forgotten this I suspect and/or the facts of what's happened will be buried in a morass of social media scheisse and conspiracy theories. McConnell, Graham et al, for all he was unequivocal yesterday, can't be allowed to get away for all they've done for the last ~4 years. Suspect all they're doing now is trying to salvage what little reputations they have left so they can say "Look, I stood up to be counted on Jan 6th, 2021.". Nope; not good enough.

Dems need to appeal to a lot of the Trump voters. They need to make it clear that the fact Trump is a sewer dweller isn't a reflection on them as they would have had their own, valid reasons for voting for the GOP representative in Nov. Need to make it clear that any action against Trump and his immediate covey of scum isn't making any comment on those that voted for him. Don't envy Biden/Harris, but at least they now have all three branches under their control for at least the next two years - need to hit the ground running.

by dummy_half Thu 07 Jan 2021, 4:29 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:...

Dems need to appeal to a lot of the Trump voters. They need to make it clear that the fact Trump is a sewer dweller isn't a reflection on them as they would have had their own, valid reasons for voting for the GOP representative in Nov. Need to make it clear that any action against Trump and his immediate covey of scum isn't making any comment on those that voted for him. Don't envy Biden/Harris, but at least they now have all three branches under their control for at least the next two years - need to hit the ground running.

The problem is that many of the Trump supporters are not basing their support on Republican policy but on reaction against the Socialist Communist Democrats (copyright: Faux News etc). It's all very well the Democrats having policies that would actually help the rural poor (extension of Medicare for example), but selling it to people who are ideologically opposed to you and who gets their news from a source that is strongly biased against you means this is a hugely uphill battle over the short time they have before the next elections.

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 07 Jan 2021, 5:02 pm

Mark Zuckerberg wrote:We believe the risks of allowing the President to continue to use our service during this period are simply too great. Therefore, we are extending the block we have placed on his Facebook and Instagram accounts indefinitely and for at least the next two weeks until the peaceful transition of power is complete.

by king_carlos Thu 07 Jan 2021, 5:17 pm

When Zuckerberg thinks your actions are damaging society you know you've messed up.

That's like Gordon Ramsay telling you to control your temper or Jamie Oliver questioning how much olive oil you use.

by **navyblueshorts** Thu 07 Jan 2021, 6:07 pm

dummy_half wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:...

Dems need to appeal to a lot of the Trump voters. They need to make it clear that the fact Trump is a sewer dweller isn't a reflection on them as they would have had their own, valid reasons for voting for the GOP representative in Nov. Need to make it clear that any action against Trump and his immediate covey of scum isn't making any comment on those that voted for him. Don't envy Biden/Harris, but at least they now have all three branches under their control for at least the next two years - need to hit the ground running.

The problem is that many of the Trump supporters are not basing their support on Republican policy but on reaction against the Socialist Communist Democrats (copyright: Faux News etc). It's all very well the Democrats having policies that would actually help the rural poor (extension of Medicare for example), but selling it to people who are ideologically opposed to you and who gets their news from a source that is strongly biased against you means this is a hugely uphill battle over the short time they have before the next elections.

That's true, but what else can they do? If they enact policies that help those rural poor etc, and are seen to help them, then one might imagine it would begin to sink in. The Dems need to up their game on ensuring the correct PR surrounds this sort of stuff too. I was amazed there wasn't more on how it was Obama's Administration that put in train the conditions for the revived US economy pre-Covid in an attempt to counter Trump trying to own it. It's certainly not going to be a quick fix, that's for sure and they need a run where they can get policies through. Some sort of modern FDR-Truman show...

by MonkeyMan Thu 07 Jan 2021, 7:37 pm

What is Trussman's take on all of this I want to know...

by Samo Thu 07 Jan 2021, 8:20 pm

I see the Dems have basically told them to either invoke the 25th or they’ll impeach him again. The worry is that in Pence becomes POTUS he’ll give Trump a pardon. Although those bridges seem to have been burned so I doubt that will happen.

by **JuliusHMarx** Thu 07 Jan 2021, 10:46 pm

MonkeyMan wrote:What is Trussman's take on all of this I want to know...

72% of us want to know.

by dummy_half Fri 08 Jan 2021, 9:43 am

Samo wrote:I see the Dems have basically told them to either invoke the 25th or they’ll impeach him again. The worry is that in Pence becomes POTUS he’ll give Trump a pardon. Although those bridges seem to have been burned so I doubt that will happen.

The more interesting legal question is whether Trump is actually able to pardon himself. Strong suggestions he's at least going to try, and that's something I can see ending up in the Supreme Court.

by Samo Fri 08 Jan 2021, 9:51 am

I’d like to think that a country founded on the idea of escaping tyranny would have measures in place where that cant happen.

by lostinwales Fri 08 Jan 2021, 10:06 am

I haven't seen all the details and although it is very sad that anyone died as a result of the actions in Washington, it seems that a member of the Proud Boys died from a heart attack after he managed to taser himself

by dummy_half Fri 08 Jan 2021, 10:08 am

Samo wrote:I’d like to think that a country founded on the idea of escaping tyranny would have measures in place where that cant happen.

You would hope so wouldn't you, but I don't think the Founding Fathers even considered it as a possibility, so there does not seem to be an explicit statement forbidding it. Indeed, the Presidential powers of pardon are virtually unlimited with regards to federal crimes.

by king_carlos Fri 08 Jan 2021, 10:19 am

Samo wrote:I’d like to think that a country founded on the idea of escaping tyranny would have measures in place where that cant happen.

Pardoning has already descended in farce with Trump handing them out to convicted war criminals.

The system is a joke setup on the predilection that someone capable of gaining power wouldn't abuse that power.

From what I've read there would be legal challenges to Trump pardoning himself or family members. Pardoning powers of the President only apply to federal crimes as well, not State and Trump is crooked enough to surely be indicted under both.

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 08 Jan 2021, 10:39 am

Invoking the 25th amendment seems to be off the table - apparently Pence isn't entertaining the idea. But a vote in the House on impeachment seems certain now, unless Biden makes it clear he doesn't want it to happen. But if this isn't worthy of impeachment, what is? Throw in the call to Raffensberger for good measure.

It's really something how quickly Trump's star has fallen. Tuesday, he lost the Republicans control of the Senate, Wednesday, he incited a crowd that stormed and trashed the Capitol.

The worst thing of all might be that, if the reports are true, and there'll almost certainly be an inquiry into what happened, he delayed the sending in of the National Guard (which is under his control in DC, as I understand it). He claimed in his hostage-video address last night that he sent them in immediately. I'd like to see him swear to that. I don't see anyone covering for him any more, and not just on this.

by lostinwales Fri 08 Jan 2021, 10:57 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Invoking the 25th amendment seems to be off the table - apparently Pence isn't entertaining the idea. But a vote in the House on impeachment seems certain now, unless Biden makes it clear he doesn't want it to happen. But if this isn't worthy of impeachment, what is? Throw in the call to Raffensberger for good measure.

It's really something how quickly Trump's star has fallen. Tuesday, he lost the Republicans control of the Senate, Wednesday, he incited a crowd that stormed and trashed the Capitol.

The worst thing of all might be that, if the reports are true, and there'll almost certainly be an inquiry into what happened, he delayed the sending in of the National Guard (which is under his control in DC, as I understand it). He claimed in his hostage-video address last night that he sent them in immediately. I'd like to see him swear to that. I don't see anyone covering for him any more, and not just on this.

Rumors that he threatened Pence as well - who is the one guy best placed to protect him. On the day it seems it was Pence who called in the NG.

I am aware that events have been spun by all sides for their own purposes, but it does seem just bizarre how small and ineffective the police presence was.

by **navyblueshorts** Fri 08 Jan 2021, 11:41 am

dummy_half wrote:
Samo wrote:I see the Dems have basically told them to either invoke the 25th or they’ll impeach him again. The worry is that in Pence becomes POTUS he’ll give Trump a pardon. Although those bridges seem to have been burned so I doubt that will happen.

The more interesting legal question is whether Trump is actually able to pardon himself. Strong suggestions he's at least going to try, and that's something I can see ending up in the Supreme Court.

Don't think he'll get away w/ that, but he might try. You can't "grant" yourself anything. From Wiki:

Wikipedia wrote:Constitutional provision
The pardon power of the President is based on Article Two of the United States Constitution (Section 2, Clause 1), which provides:

The President ... shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of impeachment.

The U.S. Supreme Court has interpreted the provision to include the power to grant pardons, conditional pardons, commutations of sentence, conditional commutations of sentence, remissions of fines and forfeitures, respites and amnesties.

In language, you can't grant yourself anything. I suspect if he tried, he'd fail in the courts.

by Luckless Pedestrian Fri 08 Jan 2021, 12:03 pm

Great idea appointing originalists to the Supreme Court!

by **navyblueshorts** Fri 08 Jan 2021, 2:59 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Great idea appointing originalists to the Supreme Court!

Yep. Worked out well for DJT so far, hasn't it?

by Samo Sat 09 Jan 2021, 11:29 am

Not only has Trump finally had his Twitter account pernamently suspended, Google and Apple have both threatened to remove right wing Poopie house social media platform Parler from their stores unless they implement a moderation policy within 24 hours. You hate to see it.

by **navyblueshorts** Sat 09 Jan 2021, 2:08 pm

Ahahahahahaha. Here's hoping this comes to pass. Oh, the irony:

https://metro.co.uk/2021/01/08/us-capitol-rioters-face-10-years-in-prison-due-to-donald-trumps-law-13869643/

by king_carlos Sat 09 Jan 2021, 2:55 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:Ahahahahahaha. Here's hoping this comes to pass. Oh, the irony:

https://metro.co.uk/2021/01/08/us-capitol-rioters-face-10-years-in-prison-due-to-donald-trumps-law-13869643/

One of them should be getting a lot longer as well. Turns out the Policeman that died passed away after being clubbed over the head with a fire extinguisher. It's being investigated as a homicide.

by BamBam Sat 09 Jan 2021, 4:48 pm

Does the Capitol Police fall under federal jurisdiction? If so, the killing of a federal agent is likely to mean death penalty if proven as murder isn’t it?

by Samo Mon 11 Jan 2021, 6:21 pm

The house will vote tomorrow on whether or not to ask Pence to invoke the 25th, if it doesnt pass then impeachment plans have also been introduced and will be put forward as soon as possible after a No vote.

by king_carlos Wed 13 Jan 2021, 9:24 pm

Marjorie Taylor Greene, the Georgia senator and QAnon conspiracy theory supporter, wearing a face mask that says "censored" whilst shouting into a microphone on the floor of the House is one of the most ironic things I've seen in a long time. A poetic level of stupidity.

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