Wales v Ireland Match Thread

[Luckless Pedestrian]

First topic message reminder :

Seeing as there isn't one yet, and the teams have been named:

Six Nations 2021: Wales v Ireland

Venue: Principality Stadium, Cardiff Date: Sunday, 7 February Kick-off: 15:00 GMT

Wales: Leigh Halfpenny; Louis Rees-Zammit, George North, Jonathan Davies, Hallam Amos; Dan Biggar, Tomos Williams; Wyn Jones, Ken Owens, Tomas Francis, Adam Beard, Alun Wyn Jones (capt), Dan Lydiate, Justin Tipuric, Taulupe Faletau.

Replacements: Elliot Dee, Rhodri Jones, Leon Brown, Will Rowlands, Josh Navidi, Gareth Davies, Callum Sheedy, Nick Tompkins.

Ireland: Keenan, Earls, Ringrose; Henshaw, Lowe; Sexton, Murray; Healy, Herring, Porter, Beirne, Ryan, O'Mahony, Van der Flier, Stander.

Replacements: Kelleher, Kilcoyne, Furlong, Henderson, Connors, Gibson Park, Burns, Larmour.

[Noble-Surfer]

Relieved to get the win, but we really should be winning by 20+ points, playing against 14 for so long- and should at least be aiming for a bonus point. We were gifted that win, despite our poor performance, by Peter O'Mahony.
Good to start the tournament with a win, but some big improvements needed in all areas for Wales, not least in our on-field decision making.

[eirebilly]

Relieved to get the win, but we really should be winning by 20+ points, playing against 14 for so long- and should at least be aiming for a bonus point. We were gifted that win despite our poor performance by Peter O'Mahony.
Good to start the tournament with a win, but some big improvements needed in all areas for Wales, not least in our on-field decision making.

As much as I rate Biggar, his decision making leaves a lot to be desired at times. I would say that his game management is one of the worst as an international 10...

[Hoonercat]

I'm surprised at some of the negative comments about Ireland, first game of the 6 Nations, away from home, down to 14 men and still looked the better side. A lot of their play was a real joy to watch for a neutral, they've got every right to feel proud of their performance.
Henshaw is a great player.

[mikey_dragon]

Game management used to be a strength of Biggar’s, not to mention kicking and fielding the ball pretty well. He was very poor in attack today, especially compared to Sexton. I think Biggar might be better suited to closing out a game, coming in off the bench. Sheedy is a good player but I’d like to see Jarrod Evans given a chance, and perhaps Ioan Lloyd next year.

[mikey_dragon]

I'm surprised at some of the negative comments about Ireland, first game of the 6 Nations, away from home, down to 14 men and still looked the better side. A lot of their play was a real joy to watch for a neutral, they've got every right to feel proud of their performance.
Henshaw is a great player.

Not me, I praised them! And I agree with what you’ve said. Sexton and Henshaw at 10/12 looks like a dream.

[Collapse2005]

Thought Henshaw should have been man of the match.

[TightHEAD]

Cheap shot on Sexton

I’ve deleted your first attempt at this. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and you can explain what Tipuric did wrong.

Probably something to do with Tipuric accidentally colliding with Sexton being the reason Bath lost this weekend. Throw in "biased ref" and "Stuart Hooper stole my lunch money" then you've got the entire album.

I take it neither of you two saw it!

No it wasn't the knee to head. That was a rugby incident.

Heavy handed censorship!!!!

[thebandwagonsociety]

Wales well deserved victory. Ireland lost the game with the red card, which was fully warranted.
Yet again poor line out by Ireland.
Don’t blame any of Burns kicks, that’s the quality of the player, I question the selection in the first place. Thought Beirne, Porter, Henderson and Stander played great. Pack played better with Ryan off the pitch, a nice looking player, heavyweight in stature but lightweight in effectiveness. Earls seemed lost. Lowe did nothing. Sexton carries the groin injury too much. Line out throwing was poor. Bench players were mostly impact players to the game. And with all that going wrong we still were in with a shout of winning the game (and that feels damning for Wales in a way).

[RiscaGame]

Cheap shot on Sexton

I’ve deleted your first attempt at this. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and you can explain what Tipuric did wrong.

Probably something to do with Tipuric accidentally colliding with Sexton being the reason Bath lost this weekend. Throw in "biased ref" and "Stuart Hooper stole my lunch money" then you've got the entire album.

I take it neither of you two saw it!

No it wasn't the knee to head. That was a rugby incident.

Heavy handed censorship!!!!

Please message RDW about your new complaint. I’ve asked you to explain what it was and you haven’t. The posts I deleted were at exactly the same time as the Tipuric “incident” happened.

[theslosty]

Decent game in the end, which I wasn't expecting after the red.

There was already quite a lot of anti-Farrell sentiment pre-match but I'm fairly pleased with Ireland's performance. Obviously I have no evidence for this but I think 15 vs 15 Ireland win by 10+ points. Not debating the red though, I imagine we won't see POM again until Week 4.

[Guest]

Think you’re being kind to Wales there, theslosty! 15 v 15 and I think it might have been a 20+ Win to Ireland!

[LeinsterFan4life]

Wales well deserved victory. Ireland lost the game with the red card, which was fully warranted.
Yet again poor line out by Ireland.
Don’t blame any of Burns kicks, that’s the quality of the player, I question the selection in the first place. Thought Beirne, Porter, Henderson and Stander played great. Pack played better with Ryan off the pitch, a nice looking player, heavyweight in stature but lightweight in effectiveness. Earls seemed lost. Lowe did nothing. Sexton carries the groin injury too much. Line out throwing was poor. Bench players were mostly impact players to the game. And with all that going wrong we still were in with a shout of winning the game (and that feels damning for Wales in a way).

I'm sorry what?

[Engine#4]

George North looked very good as an attacking 13, made Lowe look like an amateur in defense.

Looked like Henderson hung him out to dry for the North try. Not easy to defend 2 players.

How did Henderson hang Lowe out to dry? It was Beirne that had to scramble back and showed great pace to get to North after Lowe did not go in to tackle.

Henderson was caught narrow at the ruck. Left Lowe defending a 2-on-1. He didn't hit North as he was trying to cover the pass outside. Jennings even highlighted this post match.

Lowe clearly carries some fault (rarely is a single player completely to blame for a try) for the other try but I disagree on the North score.

[theslosty]

Tbh you can point fingers at Lowe or Henderson but if you play 65 minutes with 14 men you're going to be caught out at some point.

[Collapse2005]

The only reason Wales were on Irelands line in the first place was because Earls gifted them posession and territory twice in under a few minutes. Game swung on those critical and completely unnecessary errors.

[LeinsterFan4life]

Tbh you can point fingers at Lowe or Henderson but if you play 65 minutes with 14 men you're going to be caught out at some point.

Would've never been in that place if Earls didn't commit the most brain dead tackle in the air I've ever seen. Why we are playing an off form 33 year old on the wing is beyond me.

[theslosty]

Collapse you clearly hold a bit of a vendetta against Earls but nonetheless he had a poor game - the knock on in the first half and the needless penalty in the 2nd. Wouldn't blame him for the kick though, don't think anyone in green realised the ball had been taken back in (I certainly didn't).

[No9]

Billy Burns saves Pivac's job... well for another week at last.

A win is a win, and that win was a relief. But that wasnt a good performance against 14 men and I really thought we where going to blow it in the final gasps..

[Collapse2005]

You have a bit of a vendetta against Earls obviously but he had a poor game, the knock on in the first half and the needless penalty in the 2nd. Wouldn't blame him for the kick though, don't think anyone in green realised the ball had been taken back in (I certainly didn't).

Barnes shouted that the ball was taken back in and the lineout was outside our 22 was it not kind of obvious? No one has a vendetta against Earls, he screwed up. Your as bad as Billy with the usual making it into a parochial arguement nonsense.

[theslosty]

Maybe I wasn't paying attention but I thought the lineout was right on the 22. Fair play if you noticed it immediately but it's very easy to slate players from the sofa. In my opinion it was a slightly unusual situation and Earls probably didn't hear Barnes.

[Collapse2005]

Maybe I wasn't paying attention but I thought the lineout was right on the 22. Fair play if you noticed it immediately but it's very easy to slate players from the sofa. In my opinion it was a slightly unusual situation and Earls probably didn't hear Barnes.

It was just on the 22 but ball thrown in outside 22 and Barnes said after the play that he had explained to the Ireland team that if they won it against the head it would be taken back and he also called it as it happened. Maybe Earls didnt hear it but the tackle in the air was mindless.

[Noble-Surfer]

Billy Burns saves Pivac's job... well for another week at last.

A win is a win, and that win was a relief. But that wasnt a good performance against 14 men and I really thought we where going to blow it in the final gasps..

Agree 100% with this. Huge credit to Ireland for the way they played following the red card. The fact that they could, and arguably should, have won the game in the final 10 minutes despite being a man down from so early in the game can give them a big boost going into the rest of the tournament.

[LordDowlais]

I will take the win, that is a given. But there was no rhyme or reason with the Welsh play. The two tries were scored from individual ability. There is no game management, there is no set plays.

Wales were one man up for most of the game, but you would not have thought so, under Gatland, that game would have been a bonus point win for Wales.

We were one man up in the scrums, yet not once did we put the squeeze on, although Barnes allowed the Irish front row to collapse as long as the ball came out. The less said about our line out the better. We seem to have gone back years.

On a plus, George North had a better game, and he looks like that position is his to lose now, and a few older heads coming back from injury put a good shift in. Other than that, I am not looking forward to next week.

[Collapse2005]

Well done to Wales on a hard fought win. Personally I think we threw it away a bit, three key errors from Ireland from Pom, Earls and Burns sealed the deal. As much as people like to complain about his methods an Ireland team under Schmidt wouldnt have made these errors in my view so I hope all three players are dropped.

[No 7&1/2]

Well done to Wales on a hard fought win. Personally I think we threw it away a bit, three key errors from Ireland from Pom, Earls and Burns sealed the deal. As much as people like to complain about his methods an Ireland team under Schmidt wouldnt have made these errors in my view so I hope all three players are dropped.

I've seen Burns do that before and miss touch. I've seen players get sent off for stupid things. And I've seen players kick out on the full from inside the 22. Players make mistakes all the time not sure that has much to do with the guy on the sideline.

[Collapse2005]

Well done to Wales on a hard fought win. Personally I think we threw it away a bit, three key errors from Ireland from Pom, Earls and Burns sealed the deal. As much as people like to complain about his methods an Ireland team under Schmidt wouldnt have made these errors in my view so I hope all three players are dropped.

Yeah they do but these were big errors and three of them, it wasnt good enough. Farrell is a good coach but probably a bit too laid back about these things.

I've seen Burns do that before and miss touch. I've seen players get sent off for stupid things. And I've seen players kick out on the full from inside the 22. Players make mistakes all the time not sure that has much to do with the guy on the sideline.

[geoff999rugby]

This game was not lost because of errors by Lowe, Earls, Burns, Sexton etc it was lost for one reason and one reason only.
All top class players make occasional mistakes but none of these errors turned the game.

POM's sending off decided the game
Wales were a poor side and Ireland had the better of them - it was only because they played most of the match with 14 men that they lost.

[Gooseberry]

Think you’re being kind to Wales there, theslosty! 15 v 15 and I think it might have been a 20+ Win to Ireland!

The last fixture was 15 vs 15 and should've been a 20+ win to Ireland given their territory and possession, but they didn't make the best of their chances then either. No question Ireland are the better team but they seem to have an issue with turning good positions into tries still.


Obvious point for Wales to improve on is the lineout. They shipped a lot of penalties through the middle of the game too (not quite England levels mind). They need to have the ball more if they are going to challenge a 15 man team (gain applies even more to England!)

Wins a win though, and the 6 nations is wide open.

[mikey_dragon]

I've been vocal about POM in the past, you all know that. I just think his international days are behind him, unless Ireland have an injury crises in the back-row. Next game Farrell should consider Beirne at 6, start with Henderson and Ryan (if he's available). Healy played well but again, I think his best days are behind him and he should swap with Kilcoyne. Porter and Furlong are both Lions imo, so no need for change there. Earls is a decent player but I wouldn't be starting him on the wing, perhaps bench as utility cover.

Murray is another one who could be benched, but Farrell didn't pick Cooney. Perhaps Carty or Hanrahan should have also been considered. If Kevin O'Byrne is not in the squad, why?

[Pete330v2]

I had mentioned, in another thread, that Ireland's 6 nations this year was doomed because the squad selection was yet again a cut and paste exercise without a single nod to form. Experience has been quoted as the reason for the same tired old carthorses being rolled out yet again without a view to the future. If that's what experience brings then I'd rather play a team of kids. We didn't lose the game because of the error by Burns or previous errors by Lowe, Earls and Sexton. We lost that game due to the experience of O'Mahoney and his cheap shot that he somehow imagined he'd get away with. Now we have a very tired side who played with 14 men for almost an entire match going up against a French side that had a bit of a training session without getting out of first gear.
I knew I had a bad feeling about this 6 nations.

[Maine man]

So how big a ban will POM get? I'm not his biggest fan but he did have a decent autumn for Ireland. I'd be tempted to play Ruddock against France. I'd also hope Doris is fit too but I read he's off to see a specialist about concussion.

[Guest]

Think you’re being kind to Wales there, theslosty! 15 v 15 and I think it might have been a 20+ Win to Ireland!

The last fixture was 15 vs 15 and should've been a 20+ win to Ireland given their territory and possession, but they didn't make the best of their chances then either. No question Ireland are the better team but they seem to have an issue with turning good positions into tries still.


Obvious point for Wales to improve on is the lineout. They shipped a lot of penalties through the middle of the game too (not quite England levels mind). They need to have the ball more if they are going to challenge a 15 man team (gain applies even more to England!)

Wins a win though, and the 6 nations is wide open.

Yes I agree. I have to say though, I don’t think I’ve ever seen Wales turn over so much ball in a game. So either that is something that is now a new trait and will continue, or it is a blip (hopefully) and we won’t/can’t be that poor in that area again. If the latter then things should improve going forward. I don’t know if it was Ireland being awesome or us being shocking in that area? Probably a bit of both. But we need to secure the ball much better. I’d love to see the stats for line outs lost, number of times the ball was stripped in contact, number of knock ons, number of ruck turnovers, etc. It seemed like the majority of our moves ended in one of these ways. Really poor.

[Collapse2005]

I had mentioned, in another thread, that Ireland's 6 nations this year was doomed because the squad selection was yet again a cut and paste exercise without a single nod to form. Experience has been quoted as the reason for the same tired old carthorses being rolled out yet again without a view to the future. If that's what experience brings then I'd rather play a team of kids. We didn't lose the game because of the error by Burns or previous errors by Lowe, Earls and Sexton. We lost that game due to the experience of O'Mahoney and his cheap shot that he somehow imagined he'd get away with. Now we have a very tired side who played with 14 men for almost an entire match going up against a French side that had a bit of a training session without getting out of first gear.
I knew I had a bad feeling about this 6 nations.

Keenan only has a few caps but is playing really well. Beirne seems to have been promoted from the bench to a starter now too.

In some ways agree albeit gradual change is probably a wise approach.

[mikey_dragon]

Still, anyone know why Wyn Jones got player of the match? Was it just because Jiffy was picking it?

[theslosty]

POM's clear out was very reckless but it's a technique you'll see from a lot of Ireland players (and indeed other sides), including Healy who continued to go in with that missile technique. POM was just unlucky enough (if that's the right word) that he connected with the head as I don't believe it was intentional. However that technique where the arm doesn't wrap has to be coached out of players in the same way it's unacceptable to tackle like that. I don't think this should be the end of him, he's still a very good flanker in my books and this is his first red for Ireland. For France however I'd go Henderson-Ryan-Beirne-vdF-Stander and Ruddock to replace Ryan if the latter is unavailable.

[No 7&1/2]

Still, anyone know why Wyn Jones got player of the match? Was it just because Jiffy was picking it?

Certainly sounded as if it was. I thought Henshaw was pick of the bunch myself.

[eirebilly]

I had mentioned, in another thread, that Ireland's 6 nations this year was doomed because the squad selection was yet again a cut and paste exercise without a single nod to form. Experience has been quoted as the reason for the same tired old carthorses being rolled out yet again without a view to the future. If that's what experience brings then I'd rather play a team of kids. We didn't lose the game because of the error by Burns or previous errors by Lowe, Earls and Sexton. We lost that game due to the experience of O'Mahoney and his cheap shot that he somehow imagined he'd get away with. Now we have a very tired side who played with 14 men for almost an entire match going up against a French side that had a bit of a training session without getting out of first gear.
I knew I had a bad feeling about this 6 nations.

Howya Pete,

As I said yesterday, POM is a class act but what he did yesterday is inexcusable so i would like to see Farrell take a tough stance by making an example of him and dropping him for the rest of the 6N. Farrell has to show that actions like that will not be tolerated.

Earls was not at the races and was a weak link and Lowe's defense is not good enough. Larmour looked good when he cam on so i would start him at 15 with Keenan on one wing. The other wing, not sure about but if Conway was fit, he would get the nod.

Murray, as good as he is, is just not quick enough with his distribution. Ireland looked better when JGP came on and that is saying something. Still would have loved to have had Cooney in there. Young Casey is a good option as well.

The forwards stood up well, especially Beirne and Henderson. I still think that Henderson is Irelands most under rated player.

Henshaw and Ringrose were excellent for me as well with Henshaw looking a nailed on Lion.

Not sure how Sexton is, he had a bad miss to touch as well but his game management whilst being down to 14 men was exceptional. I hope he is fit for France.

[theslosty]

Earls had a poor game but I still think he's a better winger than either Larmour or Keenan - the latter two are both 15s for me. Agree that we looked better when Murray was replaced.

Burns is a nice ball player but he just doesn't quite look international class, and I felt that way before the final kick. Carty I think is the next best option but his goalkicking is probably his issue, Ross Byrne in fairness has been vilified for two performances at Twickenham which is a pretty rough standard to judge anyone by.

[mikey_dragon]

Still, anyone know why Wyn Jones got player of the match? Was it just because Jiffy was picking it?

Certainly sounded as if it was. I thought Henshaw was pick of the bunch myself.

For Wales I felt that AWJ, Francis and North were better. For Ireland I feel that Sexton, Henshaw, VDF and Beirne were their best players.

[Collapse2005]

Earls had a poor game but I still think he's a better winger than either Larmour or Keenan - the latter two are both 15s for me. Agree that we looked better when Murray was replaced.

Burns is a nice ball player but he just doesn't quite look international class, and I felt that way before the final kick. Carty I think is the next best option but his goalkicking is probably his issue, Ross Byrne in fairness has been vilified for two performances at Twickenham which is a pretty rough standard to judge anyone by.

Ross Byrne is too one dimensional , Ben Healy or Harry Byrne have more talent in my view. I also think its time to reconsider Paddy Jackson who is still very good

[LordDowlais]

I too thought North had one of his best games in a while.

[LordDowlais]

Going to say something really controversial here, but we all saw what happened to George North and the finger in the eye incident, but both his eye areas were scarred yesterday, and a number of other Welsh players were the same, with red marks around the eye area yesterday.

Is this something more sinister going on here ? One poke in the eye by accident is one thing, but George had his both eyes done, and so did a few others.

[eirebilly]

Ah here now Lord, what are ye at?

[Pete330v2]

I had mentioned, in another thread, that Ireland's 6 nations this year was doomed because the squad selection was yet again a cut and paste exercise without a single nod to form. Experience has been quoted as the reason for the same tired old carthorses being rolled out yet again without a view to the future. If that's what experience brings then I'd rather play a team of kids. We didn't lose the game because of the error by Burns or previous errors by Lowe, Earls and Sexton. We lost that game due to the experience of O'Mahoney and his cheap shot that he somehow imagined he'd get away with. Now we have a very tired side who played with 14 men for almost an entire match going up against a French side that had a bit of a training session without getting out of first gear.
I knew I had a bad feeling about this 6 nations.

Howya Pete,

As I said yesterday, POM is a class act but what he did yesterday is inexcusable so i would like to see Farrell take a tough stance by making an example of him and dropping him for the rest of the 6N. Farrell has to show that actions like that will not be tolerated.

Earls was not at the races and was a weak link and Lowe's defense is not good enough. Larmour looked good when he cam on so i would start him at 15 with Keenan on one wing. The other wing, not sure about but if Conway was fit, he would get the nod.

Murray, as good as he is, is just not quick enough with his distribution. Ireland looked better when JGP came on and that is saying something. Still would have loved to have had Cooney in there. Young Casey is a good option as well.


The forwards stood up well, especially Beirne and Henderson. I still think that Henderson is Irelands most under rated player.

Henshaw and Ringrose were excellent for me as well with Henshaw looking a nailed on Lion.

Not sure how Sexton is, he had a bad miss to touch as well but his game management whilst being down to 14 men was exceptional. I hope he is fit for France.

Bout Ya Billy,

Agreed on all points, there's need of a bit of a shake up, not a complete clear-out but not far off it.
There are plenty of aspects that don't need fixed. The pack, being one man down, were immense, not a backward step taken with a 7 man scrum, that takes some doing.
Our centre partnership looked very classy, Henshaw in particular was a man possessed.
10 is of course our weak point behind Sexton, there simply isn't any player at the right level. Burns has a lovely game and but didn't show up and you can't do that at international level. Byrne is no better and Carty was tried, failed and was cast aside. Whichever of them plays at 10, there's a large drop off in what they offer and Johnny remains head and shoulders above all the backup, sad but true. There is one high quality Irish 10 playing some of the best rugby of his career but that's been debated long enough on here, he's never coming back.
The game was lost on a moment of stupidity and POM might not be seen in green again this tournament and it's not all bad. We have to stop relying on the same old players, there are those waiting in the wings chomping at the bit for a chance and more that classy enough to take it. Ruddock will step up and if he can carry his Leinster form into the Irish camp it'll be a job to get the 6 shirt back. Would they dare play Coombes? I would love to see him given a run out, he's a fantastic talent and well and truly good enough.

Things can be fixed, it was a valiant display by 14 men, it'll take a lot more than that to get anything out of this tournament but it's not over yet.

[eirebilly]

Ruddock is a good call and is a very good player.

I rate Coombes but i feel its just a year too early for him but he is one for the future.

Not wholesale changes required, I agree but Farrell does need to broaden his thinking with regards to selections.

POC has been an inspired choice for the coaching team.

[LordDowlais]

Ah here now Lord, what are ye at?

It's just something I observed, it could be totally innocent, but I saw a lot of Welsh players with "marks" around their eye area. Make of it what you will, but I am just throwing the question out there.

[No 7&1/2]

I've not seen any video of anything looking untoward or any complaints from the team. I'd say you need something more than what you've said for it to be remotely sinister.

[LordDowlais]

I'm just asking if anybody else noticed, it could just be something of nothing. As I said, when watching the game more than one player had marks around their eyes.

[No 7&1/2]

Given the insinuation is that there was widespread eye gouging by one or more players I'd just say you probably need to have any sort of evidence to back it up. That's just me though.

[LordDowlais]

No, as you were told on a previous thread, again you are inventing an argument, which is something you do a lot of when I post and you follow me around here.

Never mind, I will not ask about it anymore.

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