South Africa 'A' v British & Irish Lions, 14 July

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SOUTH AFRICA A v BRITISH & IRISH LIONS
Wednesday 14 July
KO: 20:00 SAST / 19:00 UK / 22:00 Dubai  
Cape Town Stadium (Newlands), Cape Town
Sky Sports Main Event

Referee: Jaco Peyper
Assistant Referees: Wayne Barnes, AJ Jacobs
TMO: Marius Jonker

TEAMS:

SOUTH AFRICA A:
15 – Willie le Roux
14 – Cheslin Kolbe
13 – Lukhanyo Am (captain)
12 – Damian de Allende
11 – Sbu Nkosi
10 – Morné Steyn
9 – Faf de Klerk

8 – Jasper Wiese
7 – Pieter-Steph du Toit
6 – Marco van Staden
5 – Franco Mostert
4 – Eben Etzebeth
3 – Trevor Nyakane
2 – Joseph Dweba
1 – Steven Kitshoff

Replacements (from):
16 – Malcolm Marx
17 – Coenie Oosthuizen
18 – Vincent Koch
19 – Nicolaas Janse van Rensburg
20 – Rynhardt Elstadt
21 – Herschel Jantjies
22 – Jesse Kriel
23 – Damian Willemse
24 – Kwagga Smith
25 – Elton Jantjies

BRITISH & IRISH LIONS:
15. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, England) #816
14. Louis Rees-Zammit (Gloucester Rugby, Wales) #846
13. Chris Harris (Gloucester Rugby, Scotland) #844
12. Bundee Aki (Connacht Rugby, Ireland) #837
11. Josh Adams (Cardiff Rugby, Wales) #836
10. Dan Biggar (Northampton Saints, Wales) #821
9. Conor Murray – captain (Munster Rugby, Ireland) #790

1. Wyn Jones (Scarlets, Wales) #842
2. Ken Owens (Scarlets, Wales) #829
3. Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, England) #814
4. Maro Itoje (Saracens, England) #825
5. Iain Henderson (Ulster Rugby, Ireland) #808
6. Josh Navidi (Cardiff Rugby, Wales) #854
7. Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, England) #853
8. Taulupe Faletau (Bath Rugby, Wales) #779

16. Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, England) #851
17. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, England) #787
18. Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors, Scotland) #848
19. Adam Beard (Ospreys, Wales) #852
20. Tadhg Beirne (Munster Rugby, Ireland) #838
21. Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs, England) #849
22. Gareth Davies (Scarlets, Wales) #850
23. Elliot Daly (Saracens, England) #822

COMMENTARY:

18 world cup winners in this squad, and I cannot wait, this is going to be good.

That is 28.5714% of the backline

From SA Rugbymag

You have to feel for Xander Fagerson; he needs to put in a convincing performance from the bench to have any chance of making the Test 23 and he'll be paired with Mako the Walking Mattress.
There's a lot of talk these days about props who are mobile and have good hands in the loose; I prefer props who can destroy the opposition scrum . 
As a poster on the Glasgow Warriors thread said of Mike Cusack , "Wee Mike can't run the length of his jersey but by God he can push."
Mako The Mattress is just like The Mighty Coo...except he can't push.

jimbopip wrote:You have to feel for Xander Fagerson; he needs to put in a convincing performance from the bench to have any chance of making the Test 23 and he'll be paired with Mako the Walking Mattress.
There's a lot of talk these days about props who are mobile and have good hands in the loose; I prefer props who can destroy the opposition scrum . As a poster on the Glasgow Warriors thread said of Mike Cusack , "Wee Mike can't run the length of his jersey but by God he can push."
Mako The Mattress is just likecThe Mighty Coo...except he can't push.

So true.

It is sad that xander has been lumped in with Mako on that performance, when Mako collapsed almost everyone after about 0.5 seconds. Zander actually had a good game after the first scrum, but I think he has no chance now

I think two thirds of the front row could be Welsh, Wyn Jones and Ken Owens, with Tadhg Furlong on the tight head. For the tests.

LordDowlais wrote:I think two thirds of the front row could be Welsh, Wyn Jones and Ken Owens, with Tadhg Furlong on the tight head. For the tests.

The two English hookers have shown up better so far for me. Ken hasn’t done a lot wrong, but the other two have offered more in the loose.

Wyn Jones - yeah why not. But Sutherland looks good too.

I think that Sutherland has been excellent and Sutherland-George-Furlong starts the first test for me. But then again, I prioritise props who can scrummage and hookers who can throw straight over this 'shows up in the loose' stuff. Others will not. No idea where Gats will go.

1.Sutherland 2.George 3.Furlong
16.LCD 17.Wyn Jones 18.Sinckler

For me that'd be my 1st test front row at present.

I rate Owens really highly and have for a long time but I've thought that George has looked a bit better thus far and LCD offers a lot of impact from the bench.

The reserve tighthead could be important for the Lions. With Mtwarira retiring the Boks have a brilliant replacement starter in Kitshoff but Oosthuizen should be targeted. Combine that with Koch being a weaker scrummager than Malherbe (a brilliant TH) and then the 'bomb squad' being broken up by de Jager and Snyman's injuries. I'm hoping the Lions can turn the tables on SA and target their replacement tight five just as the Boks did to other sides under Erasmus.

Yes Oosthuizen has never filled me with confidence, although nothing wrong with Koch.

The lock and back row pairing during this match is mostly experimental, will be interesting how it goes.

Old Man wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Old Man wrote:

RDW wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

RDW wrote:A few more updates:

AWJ is back training and may join the camp again this week
Kelleher is being lined up to come out too
Rassie wanted the Lions to play South Africa 'A' again this weekend - the Lions said no

I can sort of see why.  This A game is going to be basically a test now.  So another one would be, in total, like 5 test matches!

Absolutely - there's very little reason why the Lions would agree to that. It's not our responsibility to get the Bocks test ready.

Aw

South Africa are cheats....

Yup, SARU has been accused of that many a time in the Antipodes

Well, if you don't kowtow appropriately in the antipodes you accused of stuff.

After a bunch of matches which were hard to watch at times this should be freakin fun.

To me this feels like a mostly ‘B’ line up. A chance specifically for the front row and back row units to show they should be in the test side combined with some starting test players as the numbers done allow everyone a rest. 10-13 and the second row look good. Also some tough opposition which will show us where performance levels are at the moment.

doctor_grey wrote:

Old Man wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Old Man wrote:

RDW wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

RDW wrote:A few more updates:

AWJ is back training and may join the camp again this week
Kelleher is being lined up to come out too
Rassie wanted the Lions to play South Africa 'A' again this weekend - the Lions said no

I can sort of see why.  This A game is going to be basically a test now.  So another one would be, in total, like 5 test matches!

Absolutely - there's very little reason why the Lions would agree to that. It's not our responsibility to get the Bocks test ready.

Aw

South Africa are cheats....

Yup, SARU has been accused of that many a time in the Antipodes

Well, if you don't kowtow appropriately in the antipodes you accused of stuff.  

After a bunch of matches which were hard to watch at times this should be freakin fun.  

There is a website I used to frequent “The Roar”

And since the South Africans left Super Rugby and declined participation in the RC last year we aren’t their favourites anymore.

Screw 'em, mate. Welcome to the family in the Northern Hemisphere. It's where you belong, it's just your country is somehow in the wrong place.

George Carlin wrote:I think that Sutherland has been excellent and Sutherland-George-Furlong starts the first test for me. But then again, I prioritise props who can scrummage and hookers who can throw straight over this 'shows up in the loose' stuff. Others will not. No idea where Gats will go.

I agree George, my point being that so far there has not been much to differentiate the hookers (in my view) apart from some showing up better in the loose (which is a bonus attribute for the hookers). As far as I remember the darts have been fine across the board. They’ve probably all missed a jumper or two. I think George and LCD add a bit more ballast compared to Owens who is a bit more slender (trying to be PC!). . Whether that means Owens can last longer in the game while the others will tire, who knows. Swings and roundabouts probably.

Front row is interesting.
HOOKER: All three have been good, any two would be fine.
TH: Furlong looks to be in pole position. Sinker has caught the eye in the loose. Xander has a bad back from carrying the Walking Mattress.
LH: Sutherland and Jones are in the 23 by default. There being no viable third prop to challenge them.

Old Man wrote:Yes Oosthuizen has never filled me with confidence, although nothing wrong with Koch.

The lock and back row pairing during this match is mostly experimental, will be interesting how it goes.

I don't think Koch's a bad player by any means, he's terrific around the park but his scrummaging isn't up there with Kitshoff, Malherbe and Mtawarira in my opinion. I've seen him dominated by looseheads a fair few times playing for Sarries in Premiership.

Kitshoff and Malherbe are brilliant props though. The battle between Furlong and Kitshoff will be brilliant viewing for the purists.

I'm a bit surprised that Nico Janse van Rensburg has been picked ahead of his former Montpellier team mate Jacques du Plessis. I have always rate van Rensburg highly when I've seen him but personally think du Plessis is a step-up and if it weren't for Pieter-Steph du Toit's fantastic performances at blindside du Plessis may well have returned to South Africa sooner and have many caps by now.

Well the strong Á'team is a great opportunity for the players selected to lay down a marker for a test spot.

I agree with previous chat on here that there's some areas of strength where it doesn't make much of a difference who starts (hooker, Furlong, flankers, centre, back 3) but also key selection decisions to be made a loosehead, 2nd row pairing and 8. Ali Price has been the form 9 on the tour but with Murray tour captain that selection is an easy one. It looks like Biggar is being lined up as the test 10, which is fine.

FWIW my test squad

1 Sutherland
2 George
3 Furlong
4 Itoje
5 Henderson
6 Beirne
7 Watson
8 Faletau (hoping he comes good tomorrow)

9 Murray
10 Biggar
11 Adams
12 Aki
13 Harris
14 Williams
15 Hogg

Subs - Jones, Owens, Sinkler, Lawes, Curry, Price, Farrell, Daly

Plenty grunt off the bench up front and I'd actually see both Lawes and Curry coming on in the back row. Price to pick up the pace and Daly to come on as a later penalty taker option. Farrell an experienced head if the game needs to be changed in some way.

Tough on VDM to miss out who pretty much couldn't have done any more, but I've gone for experience and proven big game players in what is going to be a key area of the game.

If Henshaw is fit and plays well at the weekend I'd have him at 13. I prefer the 12 Henshaw 13 Harris axis as combo but they've not had a chance to play together.

RDW wrote: Farrell an experienced head if the game needs to be changed in some way.

Yes, if the Lions attack is really scoring by the bucket load something will need to be done to change things and slow things down.....

doctor_grey wrote:

RDW wrote: Farrell an experienced head if the game needs to be changed in some way.

Yes, if the Lions attack is really piling up the points something will need to be done to change things.....

i was waiting on that kind of comment!

Farrell for me hasn't looked himself on this tour - he's not as driven an demanding on the pitch as we usually see him. I'm wondering if he's struggling to find his feet as more of a support role than a main leader?

couldn't help myself there...

You could be right about Farrell finding his feet in a different role.  Or perhaps playing with different players and playing in a different system?  Frankly, I am not sure what Farrell brings that Biggar doesn't.  Of course, Smith can't play right now and Russell can't either, so Farrell has to be on the bench.  

On the other hand I like Daly on the bench because he has shown he can cover most of the back line.  I'm still not sold on Harris but without Henshaw not sure there is a choice.  I like your starting pack but I would prefer Simmonds to Curry off the bench because he is a faster player and better playmaker.  If the choice is about starting, I would prefer Curry to Simmonds.  But Curry hasn't shown well so far and might be working himself out of the reckoning, which is a shame.

I can see us really targeting the breakdown which is why I went for Curry - particularly as you lose out on the breakdown front if Laws came on for Beirne.

There's no doubt Simmons is a game breaker though and could be the man if we go for a 6-2 split. If we do that I'd actually go for a different lock option than Laws to give us a bit of ballast, given we'd end up with 2.5 back rows otherwise (with Laws having lost a bit of bulk to be more effective in the backrow). Hill or Beard.

I wonder how much credit will be given to the Lions players this game if they come out of it on top.

What should happen is that anyone playing well against the strength of this opposition (light years from what we've encountered so far on this tour) should get particular credit for doing so. At the same time, it's not going to be a cricket score/blow-out as the previous matches were. 

So how we will compare them? Is one good Rees Zammit try and a good defensive performance by him better than Josh Adams scoring 847 tries against a provincial franchise with none of their test players? The goal is obviously to win the tests but how does Gatland assess the relative merits of each player?

George Carlin wrote:I wonder how much credit will be given to the Lions players this game if they come out of it on top.

What should happen is that anyone playing well against the strength of this opposition (light years from what we've encountered so far on this tour) should get particular credit for doing so. At the same time, it's not going to be a cricket score/blow-out as the previous matches were. 

So how we will compare them? Is one good Rees Zammit try and a good defensive performance by him better than Josh Adams scoring 847 tries against a provincial franchise with none of their test players? The goal is obviously to win the tests but how does Gatland assess the relative merits of each player?

If they are Scottish and do well - x100
If they are not Scottish and do well x 0.1

If they are Scottish and do poor- x0.1
If they are not Scottish and do poor x 100



But hard to assess, as players can only play what is in front of them, but playing better opposition should count for something

Tough on VDM to miss out who pretty much couldn't have done any more, but I've gone for experience and proven big game players in what is going to be a key area of the game.

I would agree with you. I want both Hogg and williams on the pitch like you so with Adams in the form he is in then VDM misses out. Harsh but thats the way it goes

I would have VDM 2nd winger after Adams by a long way over the other candidates but there is only one wing spot left.

Well someone has to lose out. It is unfortunate

RDW wrote:I can see us really targeting the breakdown which is why I went for Curry - particularly as you lose out on the breakdown front if Laws came on for Beirne.

There's no doubt Simmons is a game breaker though and could be the man if we go for a 6-2 split. If we do that I'd actually go for a different lock option than Laws to give us a bit of ballast, given we'd end up with 2.5 back rows otherwise (with Laws having lost a bit of bulk to be more effective in the backrow). Hill or Beard.

Jim Telfer mentioned that he regards Curry and Watson as absolutely equivalent but he would go with Curry as he's just a larger man.

George Carlin wrote:

RDW wrote:I can see us really targeting the breakdown which is why I went for Curry - particularly as you lose out on the breakdown front if Laws came on for Beirne.

There's no doubt Simmons is a game breaker though and could be the man if we go for a 6-2 split. If we do that I'd actually go for a different lock option than Laws to give us a bit of ballast, given we'd end up with 2.5 back rows otherwise (with Laws having lost a bit of bulk to be more effective in the backrow). Hill or Beard.

Jim Telfer mentioned that he regards Curry and Watson as absolutely equivalent but he would go with Curry as he's just a larger man.

Last time I looked which was only a few weeks ago, Lawes was 18st 4lb(116kg), I am not aware of him losing any weight to play 6. He is pretty quick anyway and will keep it up for a full 80 minutes. He has in fact put weight on since he started playing at 6, a couple of years ago he was 17st and a bit.

Are we saying it will be Beirne or Lawes at 6 (if you want a traditional blindside) or is Lawes really being considered as a lock?

I wasn’t impressed with Lawes’ physicality thus far. He might be mobile and high work rate, but would that be enough?

Lawes is too slow at 6 and isn't the most physical lock. Still a lock for me though but not good enough to start.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

RDW wrote:I can see us really targeting the breakdown which is why I went for Curry - particularly as you lose out on the breakdown front if Laws came on for Beirne.

There's no doubt Simmons is a game breaker though and could be the man if we go for a 6-2 split. If we do that I'd actually go for a different lock option than Laws to give us a bit of ballast, given we'd end up with 2.5 back rows otherwise (with Laws having lost a bit of bulk to be more effective in the backrow). Hill or Beard.

Jim Telfer mentioned that he regards Curry and Watson as absolutely equivalent but he would go with Curry as he's just a larger man.

Last time I looked which was only a few weeks ago, Lawes was 18st 4lb(116kg), I am not aware of him losing any weight to play 6. He is pretty quick anyway and will keep it up for a full 80 minutes. He has in fact put weight on since he started playing at 6, a couple of years ago he was 17st  and a bit.

The commentary in one of the games said he'd lost 6kg this season to be more mobile for the backrow. No idea where they got that from but that's what was said.

Worth noting those stats aren't exactly live stats, nor renowned for being overly accurate!

As Saints supporters I don't think we heard anything about him losing 1 stone (proper weight measure, mate!  kg?  This ain't soccer).  He was out injured for about half the season and was doing his rehab, so not sure where the weight reports came from.  He  doesn't always look like he covers ground, but he is usually in the right place at the right time and makes his ground and his tackles.  He was also extremely well managed during rehab and came back in game shape.

Just seeing the team sheet now, so this is basically a 4th test? Wierd.

More or less. Wonder if the Lions coaches knew what sort of team SA A were about to select when they made their choices? Lions pack looks pretty much Test standard to me, the backline less so

I think the Lions could realisitcally pick two top class test sides. Only one or two players are indispensable really. Itoje and Furlong.

Can't wait. Proper game at last.

Yep! Bring it on, the Lions need a better calibre of opposition & this South Africa 'A' side should provide that

Well at least we have a match to look forward to

BamBam wrote:More or less. Wonder if the Lions coaches knew what sort of team SA A were about to select when they made their choices? Lions pack looks pretty much Test standard to me, the backline less so

I'd guess they probably did. Given the current Covid situation in South Africa, I doubt there are many secrets. Probably also why the second SA-A game was not accepted. But, whether yes or no, glad there will be a match with some real good players out there.

Old Man wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

Old Man wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Old Man wrote:

RDW wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

RDW wrote:A few more updates:

AWJ is back training and may join the camp again this week
Kelleher is being lined up to come out too
Rassie wanted the Lions to play South Africa 'A' again this weekend - the Lions said no

I can sort of see why.  This A game is going to be basically a test now.  So another one would be, in total, like 5 test matches!

Absolutely - there's very little reason why the Lions would agree to that. It's not our responsibility to get the Bocks test ready.

Aw

South Africa are cheats....

Yup, SARU has been accused of that many a time in the Antipodes

Well, if you don't kowtow appropriately in the antipodes you accused of stuff.  

After a bunch of matches which were hard to watch at times this should be freakin fun.  

There is a website I used to frequent “The Roar”

And since the South Africans left Super Rugby and declined participation in the RC last year we aren’t their favourites anymore.

Used to have some good convos on The Roar, Old Man.

Old Man wrote:Well at least we have a match to look forward to

Morning Everyone

What do you think of the SA 23 mate?. Any key areas, one-on-ones?

Reference our pack
I get a feeling that could be our test starting locks, Itoje & Henderson are probably the front runners, but that's about it. Definitely the FR have a feel of 16/17/18 shirts rather than our test starters and the same for our BR, I feel Jones, Owens, Navidi, Curry have to put in a massive shift tonight.

Our backs
Outside of Adams (who will have his work cut out with Kolbe), Biggar and Harris could nail the 10/13 shirts tonight with a decent performance. Really looking forward to LRZ v the world class Nkosi.

First time I've felt anxious on this tour

RDW wrote:...The commentary in one of the games said he'd lost 6kg this season...

He said it on the Good Bad Rugby Podcast back in May. It sounded crazy at the time. Can't remember at which point in the interview he said it, though.

Pot Hale wrote:

Old Man wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

Old Man wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Old Man wrote:

RDW wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

RDW wrote:A few more updates:

AWJ is back training and may join the camp again this week
Kelleher is being lined up to come out too
Rassie wanted the Lions to play South Africa 'A' again this weekend - the Lions said no

I can sort of see why.  This A game is going to be basically a test now.  So another one would be, in total, like 5 test matches!

Absolutely - there's very little reason why the Lions would agree to that. It's not our responsibility to get the Bocks test ready.

Aw

South Africa are cheats....

Yup, SARU has been accused of that many a time in the Antipodes

Well, if you don't kowtow appropriately in the antipodes you accused of stuff.  

After a bunch of matches which were hard to watch at times this should be freakin fun.  

There is a website I used to frequent “The Roar”

And since the South Africans left Super Rugby and declined participation in the RC last year we aren’t their favourites anymore.

Used to have some good convos on The Roar, Old Man.  

Yep, wrote over 200 articles for them, had some good banter, but it got to a point where a portion of the regulars became vindictive and childish, accusing SA rugby continuously about being deceitful, dishonest etc etc.

I have learnt over the years not to let things get to me, but there comes a point where enough is enough.

I did also want to say that I absolutely love Newlands as a stadium - the atmosphere is fantastic.

Newlands has been shutdown, the matches will be played at Capetown Stadium. The new home of Western Province and Stormers rugby.

Newlands is set to be demolished this year. I think the last matches played at Newlands was the U20 tournament between SA and Argentina two weeks ago.

Two changes for the Lions. Owen Farrell for Dan Biggar (minor ankle injury) and Liam Williams in at 15, Anthony Watson moving to 11, so Josh Adams can zoom call for the birth of his first child.

Expecting an intense and highly physical confrontation. Should be very close on the scoreboard.

just hope it is a good match, Boks must shake the rust off