England's Summer of Cricket 2021

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That's the important wicket. Deserved for Robinson and England.

Now into that brittle middle order.

Carnage indeed. Can't say I'm astonished: it was probably fifty/fifty between all out with a lead of 270 , or this , at the start of play.

Indian bats (except poor old Rahane) have all done well. England had no luck early ; and then lost the plot again around lunch. What has come since was fairly predictable.

Kohli would like to see these two slap them around for another twenty five/ thirty then call them in. England might like to see an unexpected change in the weather

alfie wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:Oh yeah, sure, Alfie. I wasn't attemting a detailed overview of Moeen but for someone who gets a fair bit of stick here and elsewhere, I feel it's fair to applaud him overtaking the Test tally of Laker, one of England's greatest ever by common consent.

The bowling deficiencies clearly belong in the mix along with, tbf, his batting achievements and failures when doing a proper assessment of Moeen's England career. And that's before any contrasts of the eras as referenced by KP-f!

Yeah fair points , Guildford.  I was concentrating more on this match but of course you were flagging msp's point from earlier... All valid.

I am just a bit cranky because I feel England have once again failed to seize the moment. Afraid it is a regular feature of Root's captaincy : perhaps he just hasn't had the weapons for the occasions ? But I think you know what I mean.

Now the Comms are calling for spin again. Might as well , now . Moeen , Root , Malan.  Doesn't matter - we are just waiting for a declaration.

I do, Alfie. I do.

KP_fan wrote:How can you keep Shardul out of the playing XI

Its hard to see fitting Ashwin in....and If Ind wins.....Kohli will have his way with 4 seamers again next game

KPF, do you think Shardul can evolve to become a number 7 batter, meaning India can pick between him and Jadeja based on conditions? That would mean the bowling gets strengthened with Ashwin coming in. Jadeja overseas, is a defensive bowling option. He has done that job pretty OK in this series, but he hasn't been able to do the kind of stuff that Ashwin can do in the air, and thus add an attacking edge to his bowling in these conditions. Have also felt that the kind of experimentation that he was doing in Australia, with variation of pace and release points, Jadeja hasn't done as much in England, for some reason.

Duty281 wrote:Good session for India, they're being handed the test in gift-wrapped form by Root.

That ODI field setting for Bumrah/Yadav makes zero sense. Hardly any of Root's field placings since Kohli got out have made any sense. It's difficult to fathom just how tactically bereft Root is.

Root kinda is what he is as captain (and it’s not like we have anyone else to do it), but he surely isn’t the sole responsible for it. The coach, will surely have input (lord knows there are enough breaks for messages to get sent out).
England likely to lose, I will save my piece re: Silverwood until after the test. I’m far from impressed by his tenure so far…it’s looking like 1 win in the last 8 home test matches under his stewardship. Not good enough, and why he got essentially a promotion earlier this year (when Smith was sacked, which I still think was slightly harsh) is beyond me. Anyways, for after the test!

Though it meant a rather unfair challenge was put to poor old Jadeja who did take it on bravely, Pant could come in against a relatively oldeish ball, and batted with maturity to get a crucial 50 at a crucial time for the team. So Kohli can claim that that move of his, has also come through.

This coming innings will be where Jadeja the bowler will have to switch over to a more attacking version. Not sure the quicks can do much beyond the new ball. The pitch at the moment, doesn't have too much in terms of natural variation, but if there is any, Jadeja will become an even more lethal bowler than Ashwin. One more reason why India should bat normally until they are bowled out.

Olly has just saved me a post re the leadership responsibility. Agree best discussed after the match.

eirebilly wrote:I cant see that England will chase these runs down now myself. Best bet is to bat out for a draw, when they eventually get in that is.

Hi Billy - yep, the game has swung again today and almost certainly putting it out of England's reach. Still feel though that a draw can be salvaged if we keep our heads.

Pluses for England:
* Long batting order.
* Good batting conditions.
* Track behaving itself.
* No Ashwin.

Not to say it won't end in tears all too early tomorrow.

Overton to resume after tea.

Wouldn't put England as low as 13%, or whatever it was on WinViz. Application will be required, but there's no demons on this pitch and the weather looks good for tomorrow.

Got to take these last two wickets, first!

Mikey saying 60% India, 20% England and 20% the draw.

Feel that's far too generous to us now.

guildfordbat wrote:

eirebilly wrote:I cant see that England will chase these runs down now myself. Best bet is to bat out for a draw, when they eventually get in that is.

Hi Billy - yep, the game has swung again today and almost certainly putting it out of England's reach. Still feel though that a draw can be salvaged if we keep our heads.

Pluses for England:
* Long batting order.
* Good batting conditions.
* Track behaving itself.
* No Ashwin.

Not to say it won't end in tears all too early tomorrow.

I fear if just they set out to save a draw they'll be all out with a session to spare. Should play normally and aim to chase down whatever they're set - assuming it isn't 450 ! That would make India have to consider runs instead of just attacking full time...and I think give a better chance of survival.

India have batted 145 overs now. England won't have to bat that long to save it so perhaps not impossible.

I know where my money would be though

Anderson, Robinson and Woakes bowling more than 30 overs. Overton just completed his 17th. Another aspect of Root's captaincy that has let his side down. Moeen had done the job getting Kohli, should have been taken off straight away for Anderson who was introduced late in the 2nd session and was then made to bowl a long spell under the circumstances. Not that India would mind miles particularly in Anderson's legs.

Bumrah gone after an average boosting 24

Shouldn't be long now...

Bumrah actually batted nicely for his 24. No real slogs in there... Can Umesh slog another 10-15 more?

Bumrah is now a far better Test batsman than Stuart Broad!

msp83 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:How can you keep Shardul out of the playing XI

Its hard to see fitting Ashwin in....and If Ind wins.....Kohli will have his way with 4 seamers again next game

KPF, do you think Shardul can evolve to become a number 7 batter, meaning India can pick between him and Jadeja based on conditions? That would mean the bowling gets strengthened with Ashwin coming in. Jadeja overseas, is a defensive bowling option. He has done that job pretty OK in this series, but he hasn't been able to do the kind of stuff that Ashwin can do in the air, and thus add an attacking edge to his bowling in these conditions. Have also felt that the kind of experimentation that he was doing in Australia, with variation of pace and release points, Jadeja hasn't done as much in England, for some reason.

I think Shardul is good enuf to be one of top-3 seamers...so defnitely no problem getting him in as 4th seamer.....and a very handy No. 8 batter

Yes, England have to be positive with the bat. They can't just aim to block it out, they have to transfer some of the pressure back on to India. But the chase will be over 3 per over.

Umesh didn't have the heart to deny Siraj a single, but of the last ball of the over! Woakes, if he gets this one, would deserve the 4for.

msp83 wrote:Anderson, Robinson and Woakes bowling more than 30 overs. Overton just completed his 17th. Another aspect of Root's captaincy that has let his side down. Moeen had done the job getting Kohli, should have been taken off straight away for Anderson who was introduced late in the 2nd session and was then made to bowl a long spell under the circumstances. Not that India would mind miles particularly in Anderson's legs.

Exactly what I was saying at the time. Could have easily returned to Moeen a little after lunch if it hadn't worked : but going hard at Thakur immediately (remember Pant was yet to really get going either at that time) was surely a no-brainer ? Any extra wear for Anderson and Woakes would have been far less than they eventually suffered...

Anyway I must stop ranting...sorry , other posters.

KP_fan wrote:

msp83 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:How can you keep Shardul out of the playing XI

Its hard to see fitting Ashwin in....and If Ind wins.....Kohli will have his way with 4 seamers again next game

KPF, do you think Shardul can evolve to become a number 7 batter, meaning India can pick between him and Jadeja based on conditions? That would mean the bowling gets strengthened with Ashwin coming in. Jadeja overseas, is a defensive bowling option. He has done that job pretty OK in this series, but he hasn't been able to do the kind of stuff that Ashwin can do in the air, and thus add an attacking edge to his bowling in these conditions. Have also felt that the kind of experimentation that he was doing in Australia, with variation of pace and release points, Jadeja hasn't done as much in England, for some reason.

I think Shardul is good enuf to be one of top-3 seamers...so defnitely no problem getting him in as 4th seamer.....and a very handy No. 8 batter

Do you think he can be the number 7 in this lineup though? If he can do it, would be great, Jadeja will have competition, and Ashwin can take his rightful position as the led spinner across conditions. Don't see Hardik Pandya as a long-term test player...

Personally I'd be looking to block this out for a draw - over 3 per over needed, the amount of runs...seems more likely we'd be able to block this out for a draw than get the runs needed to win.

Duty281 wrote:Yes, England have to be positive with the bat. They can't just aim to block it out, they have to transfer some of the pressure back on to India. But the chase will be over 3 per over.

In the unlikely event that they are only four down at tea tomorrow they'll probably be able to chase the remaining target at six per over

But I think we are both in agreement about the reality of the situation.

Still can't buy a run out , I see...

But all out now. Just need 368 . Good luck

368 to win. That will take some effort. Massive effort from India yesterday and today.

msp83 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

msp83 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:How can you keep Shardul out of the playing XI

Its hard to see fitting Ashwin in....and If Ind wins.....Kohli will have his way with 4 seamers again next game

KPF, do you think Shardul can evolve to become a number 7 batter, meaning India can pick between him and Jadeja based on conditions? That would mean the bowling gets strengthened with Ashwin coming in. Jadeja overseas, is a defensive bowling option. He has done that job pretty OK in this series, but he hasn't been able to do the kind of stuff that Ashwin can do in the air, and thus add an attacking edge to his bowling in these conditions. Have also felt that the kind of experimentation that he was doing in Australia, with variation of pace and release points, Jadeja hasn't done as much in England, for some reason.

I think Shardul is good enuf to be one of top-3 seamers...so defnitely no problem getting him in as 4th seamer.....and a very handy No. 8 batter

Do you think he can be the number 7 in this lineup though? If he can do it, would be great, Jadeja will have competition, and Ashwin can take his rightful position as the led spinner across conditions. Don't see Hardik Pandya as a long-term test player...

I don't think he is No. 7 material
His ability to score runs comes from feeling free enuf.....at No. 8 knowing his primary role is bowler
I also don't think India is missing Ashwin.......as the English commentators are trying to console themselves with as the Elephant in the room that will devoid Ind of the win.

Ind will wrap it all up a bit after lunch tomm

368 to get then.

Play extended slightly today (until 18:48, 18 minutes longer), so at least 30 overs today and the full 90 tomorrow.

Time enough to get it, cracking batting pitch...but can England cope with the pressure?

If India get Root by stumps tonight they've surely won. If Root's still batting, or not yet at the crease, by stumps, England have a chance.

6 catches for Ali in the game ......safest pair of hands on the field

So England need 368 in just a little under 4 sessions. An England win is miracle land. They can bat out a draw on this pitch. Not impossible at all. If India can strike with the new ball, and if Jadeja can get into his act, they should also have a 2nd new ball available as well, India can turn it around for a win. If England go back without too much damage tonight, a draw is well within reach.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Personally I'd be looking to block this out for a draw - over 3 per over needed, the amount of runs...seems more likely we'd be able to block this out for a draw than get the runs needed to win.

Yes , much more likely. But if they just try to stonewall you know what will happen... They have to still play with the intention of scoring runs , just as in a first innings. Less pressure on the batsmen , some back on the bowlers if a partnership develops.

You can "block out" twenty odd overs. You can't (well England can't) block out 130.

About 85% India , 10% draw , 5% England ?

KP_fan wrote:6 catches for Ali in the game ......safest pair of hands on the field

Pity he can't hit the stumps from a few feet...

I wish I had him as my fielder in the a Tipping Competition

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Personally I'd be looking to block this out for a draw - over 3 per over needed, the amount of runs...seems more likely we'd be able to block this out for a draw than get the runs needed to win.

And Hameed finishing tomorrow night on an undefeated 49.

Going back to Alfie's post - my view is to play sensibly and if India should bowl filfth, treat it as such. However, that's not too likely. Don't go chasing the win. Certainly not a naturally more defensive player like Hammed. The draw will be a win for England from here if you see what I mean and the trumpeter could play The Great Escape!

Just a question of how many India win by. I would say they'll win by more than 100 runs.

England might make 250 but had they been SET 250 they would probably still have lost as the game closes down to the number of runs needed.

Folks,

Does yesterday's early finish for bad light change anything about the end of play time / extra half-hour for tonight? Thanks.

The pitch is pristine. England batsmen should play their natural game which (from 3 downwards) is generally attack-minded. If they can bat the overs they'll be close.

guildfordbat wrote:Folks,

Does yesterday's early finish for bad light change anything about the end of play time / extra half-hour for tonight? Thanks.

According to the BBC the scheduled close is 18:18, the extra half-hour means the actual close will be 18:48.

Duty281 wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:Folks,

Does yesterday's early finish for bad light change anything about the end of play time / extra half-hour for tonight? Thanks.

According to the BBC the scheduled close is 18:18, the extra half-hour means the actual close will be 18:48.

Thanks, Duty. That seems to be what cricinfo were saying although it didn't read that clearly.

sirfredperry wrote:Just a question of how many India win by. I would say they'll win by more than 100 runs.

England might make 250 but had they been SET 250 they would probably still have lost as the game closes down to the number of runs needed.

200ish

Diddly squat in the opening 7 overs for the seamers, early move to Jadeja, who immediately gets some turn.

In the face of mountainous adversity....the sky commentary has turned a bit One Eyed & Partisan

Since we are apparently going to nearly seven tonight, I guess that means at least another hour and a half of Shane Warne

...since he seems to be rostered on at least fifty minutes in each hour in this match...

(I shouldn't be rude : he does make some good points. But they tend to be surrounded by a lot of repetitive blather ! I'm afraid I find it eventually a bit wearing at this hour of the Melbourne early morning)

Ten overs , no drama. Only another 120 or so to go...

15 overs gone, India finding it as lifeless as England did. Only Jadeja getting the ball to do anything, but the bounce he's generating is taking LBW/bowled out of the equation. Excellent strike rotation and running from the opening pair.

50 partnership.

In just 20.3 overs, too. Liked the way Hameed has constructed his innings, knows where his off stump is and is leaving well as a result.

This is a great response from the English openers. a half-century partnership. Had one of them went early, the pressure would have magnified significantly on the rest of the lineup. Instead, they are providing serious belief to the English camp. Jadeja not being able to do anything significant, and Bumrah not finding early success should be a bit concerning for India.

News away from this game - Saqib Mahmood went off mid over holding his side for Lancashire in their county game today.

Another quick appears to be down

England's hopes burning bright through Burns and Hameed. The Miracle is still a possibility, the chances of a draw has increased, and the chances of an India win has taken a bit of a knocking

Jadeja is bowling alright but doesn't look like breaking through. The quicks have become ineffective. And on the basis of Shardul's batting performance, can't say Ashwin would have made a world of difference to the outcome of the game for India.

msp83 wrote:Jadeja is bowling alright but doesn't look like breaking through. The quicks have become ineffective. And on the basis of Shardul's  batting performance, can't say Ashwin would have made a world of difference to the outcome of the game for India.

On D5 when wickets start falling....they tumble in a heap

Jadeja has lots of close catchers, but doesn't have that feel that he can generate when bowling on a lively track. Need some magic from Bumrah, or one of those out-of-nowhere wicket-taker from Umesh to give India an opening. Or the English openers should do something silly.

Think Kohli needed to bring Bumrah on for the closing overs alongside Jadeja. Siraj giving away easy runs.

Desperation review from Kohli, that one, smashing Hameed's thigh.