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Ashes 2021/22 and other cricket through the winter of 2021 thread

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msp83
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 14 Oct 2021, 9:46 am

First topic message reminder :

Thought I'd start a new thread for the winter cricket of 2021 that we (covid depending) have ahead of us. Obviously the World T20, but that has it's own thread...

The main event being the Ashes, with the dates below

Men's Ashes schedule
First Test: 8-12 December - Gabba, Brisbane (00:00 GMT)
Second Test: 16-20 December - Adelaide Oval, Adelaide (d/n - 04:00 GMT)
Third Test: 26-30 December - MCG, Melbourne (23:30 GMT, 25 December)
Fourth Test: 5-9 January - SCG, Sydney (23:30 GMT, 4 January)
Fifth Test: 14-18 January - Optus Stadium, Perth (02:30 GMT) (subject to change)

Women's Ashes schedule
Test: 27-30 January - Manuka Oval, Canberra (23:00 GMT, 26 January)
First T20: 4 February - North Sydney Oval, Sydney (08:10 GMT)
Second T20: 6 February - North Sydney Oval, Sydney (08:10 GMT)
Third T20: 10 February - Adelaide Oval, Adelaide (08:10 GMT)
First ODl: 13 February - Adelaide Oval, Adelaide (23:05 GMT, 12 February)
Second ODl: 16 February - Junction Oval, Melbourne (23:05 GMT, 15 February)
Third ODI: 19 February - Junction Oval, Melbourne (23:05 GMT, 18 February)

India have a busy winter, with New Zealand touring in November/December and then India head to South Africa for the boxing day test/January.
There's an interesting test series between Bangladesh and Pakistan in Bangladesh in Nov/Dec, which should be an entertaining watch. Unfortunately I don't see much cricket on the schedule for Pakistan/Sri Lanka (unless I am missing something!)
A few others on the future tours programme, but not confirmed yet as far as I see...
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Post by compelling and rich Sat 11 Dec 2021, 12:42 am

call the game off, what's the point if fans cant even watch it Whistle Whistle Whistle

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat 11 Dec 2021, 12:44 am

Wouldn’t see this happen in such a prestigious competition as The Hundred
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Post by JDizzle Sat 11 Dec 2021, 12:47 am

No wonder people thought bowlers from back in the day were rapid - everyone looks quick from this angle and this level of tech. Wink

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Post by Duty281 Sat 11 Dec 2021, 12:48 am

Even the county cricket streams are better than this.

It's actually rather fitting because this test has had all that nonsense with the third umpire being unable to check no-balls and no snicko. This is just another breakdown.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat 11 Dec 2021, 12:50 am

Duty281 wrote:Even the county cricket streams are better than this.

It's actually rather fitting because this test has had all that nonsense with the third umpire being unable to check no-balls and no snicko. This is just another breakdown.

The winner of this match has to have an asterisk against them I am afraid. Change of playing conditions with the removal of DRS. Essentially a glorified warm up

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat 11 Dec 2021, 12:53 am

No comms but pictures - I am in heaven!
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Post by JDizzle Sat 11 Dec 2021, 12:54 am

I'm not saying I disagree with Matt Smith slating the Aussie comms - but he's hardly Richie Benaud and it's the company he works for that were too tight to send their own team out there!

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Post by compelling and rich Sat 11 Dec 2021, 1:00 am

turn the cameras off again

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat 11 Dec 2021, 1:01 am

JDizzle wrote:I'm not saying I disagree with Matt Smith slating the Aussie comms - but he's hardly Richie Benaud and it's the company he works for that were too tight to send their own team out there!

Honestly if they’re paying an assortment of blokes to sit in a studio all night with a production team there, how can they not cobble together a comms team to commentate on the live pictures from the UK?
It’s really quite pathetic
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Post by guildfordbat Sat 11 Dec 2021, 1:04 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
JDizzle wrote:I'm not saying I disagree with Matt Smith slating the Aussie comms - but he's hardly Richie Benaud and it's the company he works for that were too tight to send their own team out there!

Honestly if they’re paying an assortment of blokes to sit in a studio all night with a production team there, how can they not cobble together a comms team to commentate on the live pictures from the UK?
It’s really quite pathetic

Olly - probably not Churchy and Barran though. Smile

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Post by Duty281 Sat 11 Dec 2021, 1:14 am

Very poor from England this morning. They've undone the positives gleaned from yesterday and reverted to day one form. Bowling has been decent, but not outstanding.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat 11 Dec 2021, 1:15 am

415-17 on the same pitch that Travis Head hit an 85 ball century on.
Someone needs to tactically catch Covid and get this called off so we can all sleep like normal people this winter
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Post by guildfordbat Sat 11 Dec 2021, 1:42 am

Duty281 wrote:Very poor from England this morning. They've undone the positives gleaned from yesterday and reverted to day one form. Bowling has been decent, but not outstanding.

Yeah, it's been like yesterday didn't happen.

Warne banging on for at least the third time this session about how many more runs Australia's last 4 wickets scored. Sure, late order runs are always handy but how about our first 4 wickets going down on day one for 29? That's what lost us this Test more than anything else.

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Post by king_carlos Sat 11 Dec 2021, 2:03 am

king_carlos wrote:It's waiting for days like this to start that feel so horrible.

Root could go on to make a double ton that we look back on as his magnum opus or England could be 8 down at lunch with a lead of 27.

Supporting such a fundamentally flawed side as this England team can be so frustrating but it really does produce some very engrossing cricket. Almost every days play starts with an element of "who knows what the f*** they'll manage this time".
Turns out my worst case was optimistic.

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Post by compelling and rich Sat 11 Dec 2021, 2:05 am

dismal

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Post by Duty281 Sat 11 Dec 2021, 2:17 am

That's good - a 40 minute break before Australia start a daring pursuit of...20.

What's going to happen to England in the next test with the pink ball going round corners?

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Post by kingraf Sat 11 Dec 2021, 2:25 am

guildfordbat wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Very poor from England this morning. They've undone the positives gleaned from yesterday and reverted to day one form. Bowling has been decent, but not outstanding.

Yeah, it's been like yesterday didn't happen.


This is probably where cricket is different from other sports. They did well to get to 220/2, but *England* didn't bat well. Root and Malan did. Hammed and Burns fell cheaply. Everyone else has just continued on from the embarrassment of D1.

Looking forward, I guess Anderson and Broad make their series bow in what should be friendlier DN conditions, which, given Australia's record at the Gabba, as well the generally oppressive heat at the Gabba, AND the lack of practice time, does make me wonder if England punted on the first Test and basically sent Robinson and Woakes out as cannon fodder in an unwinnable war, so to speak.
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Post by king_carlos Sat 11 Dec 2021, 2:27 am

Duty281 wrote:That's good - a 40 minute break before Australia start a daring pursuit of...20.

What's going to happen to England in the next test with the pink ball going round corners?
The same thing that happens most the time against the Dukes I'd guess.

Hopefully England's bowlers can do more with it too.

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Post by king_carlos Sat 11 Dec 2021, 3:26 am

Well that was depressing.

Adelaide and a first pink ball game quick on the heels of it starting Thursday.

My guess is that England will try to rest at least one of Wood or Robinson in this first D/N game. Anderson and Broad likely to come in I'd presume. There must certainly be a chance of Leach being left out too unless it looks a very dry wicket.

Burns had an extremely poor Test but I can't see him being dropped for Crawley yet. If it continues there must certainly be that possibility though.

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Post by VTR Sat 11 Dec 2021, 7:00 am

Woke up expecting nothing, and got exactly that. A dismal hammering in the end. Not that bothered, as its what I have been expecting. We really aren't very good at the moment

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sat 11 Dec 2021, 10:08 am

Not a lot to really add - England will continue to lose in this series and continue being an inconsistent test side until they get better at batting. Unfortunately no magic solution is really in this squad or appearing on the horizon anytime soon (not exactly as if the Lions are currently piling on runs either!).

Maybe getting an actual coach who knows what he’s doing might help at some point
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Post by alfie Sat 11 Dec 2021, 10:15 am

Almost glad I missed most of that...

TBH I kind of expected something like that after Malan fell early. The big partnership followed by total fold up has been a feature of 21st Century England Tests in Australia (Thorpe/Hick 2002 , Malan/Bairstow 2017) ...only time they went on with it recently was 2010/11.

In truth even had they got 150 or so ahead Australia would have had little trouble chasing it down. England's hopes left the field with Joe Root.

As guildford said , this game essentially was decided in an hour or so on day one. England did fight back - twice : once with ball , once with bat - but against a committed Australian team , that is no super outfit , but neither is it weak ; they were never allowed back into the game.

At least my club team won while this was all happening Smile

Coffee break before further analysis

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Post by KP_fan Sat 11 Dec 2021, 10:20 am

In the end the end came quite fast and was anticlimactic.

But it's a long series, Eng has chance to be back given that next game will offer "English" seam conditions under light where Eng might have a superior attack.
They probably need to dump Leach.

Malan & Hameed were the positives in batting
And Pope bats like I expect him to
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Post by guildfordbat Sat 11 Dec 2021, 12:23 pm

alfie wrote:Almost glad I missed most of that...

TBH I kind of expected something like that after Malan fell early. The big partnership followed by total fold up has been a feature of 21st Century England Tests in Australia (Thorpe/Hick 2002 , Malan/Bairstow 2017) ...only time they went on with it recently was 2010/11.

In truth even had they got 150 or so ahead Australia would have had little trouble chasing it down. England's hopes left the field with Joe Root.

As guildford said , this game essentially was decided in an hour or so on day one. England did fight back - twice  : once with ball , once with bat - but against a committed Australian team , that is no super outfit ,  but neither is it weak ; they were never allowed back into the game.

At least my club team won while this was all happening Smile

Coffee break before further analysis

Spot on summary, Alfie.

Something in your final column, I trust. Smile

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Post by alfie Sat 11 Dec 2021, 12:37 pm

KP_fan has succinctly summed up a lot of that match...

First off , let me congratulate Australia. OK , they were "lucky" to lose the toss and bowl in the best conditions ; but they made the most of it with incisive bowling and flawless catching. Then on day two , where the match was essentially decided , they battled through some very testing early bowling from England's seamers , and set themselves up for a big lead.  Little delay with Root and Malan resisting ; but they stayed patient and once they broke through this morning they finished the job in professional style  thumbsup

They don't need to change much.  Harris will get further chances , Green bowled well if not so much batting ; Lyon got his wicket(s) at last and even Starc did a job to hold off the Warne wrath... They may have an injury issue or two : we will see.

What is wrong with England and can they come back ?

Big issue is apart from Root you wouldn't back any of them to get regular scores over forty. Malan was a plus here : got runs here four years back too so maybe there is hope he can do a job - holding my judgement.  Stokes is Stokes : a player capable of great innings but not likely to make consistent big scores . Was rusty here ; needs to fire. Hameed battled his way to two twenty odds : good start but unless he can go on from there he won't win them too many matches. I had big hopes for Burns this trip but early signs not very good I'm afraid.
Pope did well first knock ; but he still struggles with spin. Going to see Lyon licking his chops whenever he comes in this series : needs to find a way. Buttler plays some nice counter attacking shots but never suggests he is there for a long time.
All up they have a problem. Might get an innings or two where it all clicks but at the moment I fear they are in real danger of a 5-0 , just from an inability to muster a serious score. I hope I'm wrong.

Bowling looks better. Never mind the 420 , they were OK (except for the tin of custard unfortunate Jack Leach. (Perfect hindsight has Broad playing instead though it probably wouldn't have changed the result.) I do think I would prefer Bess next week given Australia's plethora of left handers : he might do better and surely can't do worse ! Can bat a bit too. Anderson and Broad come in of course so just decide which third seamer to keep : fitness issues paramount I think. If the fielding improves they can bowl Australia out - though whether the bats can back that up remains a question.

I'm not giving up yet but have all fingers and toes crossed for Adelaide : quite apart from being an England fan I don't want this series dead before Christmas...

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Post by Galted Sat 11 Dec 2021, 12:58 pm

I think we can safely blame the BBC for the day 4 surrender.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59606957

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Post by Duty281 Sat 11 Dec 2021, 1:03 pm

Excellent to see England fined 100% of their match fee and docked five WTC points. The only disappointment is not seeing suspensions thrown around. Maybe next time? The deduction of points is fairly meaningless because England are not in a top two race, only Pakistan/India/Australia/NZ are.

Root made the usual embarrassing comments post-match about learning from this and coming back better. Well England have barely won a test in the past 10 months, showing how short they are against the big three test nations. Could they at least learn about the over-rate?

Main positives from this game are Hameed and Robinson. Yes, Hameed didn't score highly, but he saw off the new ball twice and if he can regularly do that he's giving the middle-order at least half a chance. Robinson was fantastic with ball in hand and backed up those of us who were excited about his potential in Australia.

Burns woeful, as usual but this time he made a costly fielding error. Malan made some runs, with some slight caveats: 1) he batted on a road; 2) he was dominated by Lyon. Root made a score in the second innings, though the manner of dismissal to Cameron Green was a big concern, especially seeing as how he nearly fell in the same fashion just before stumps on day three. Pope as already said and Stokes looked incredibly rusty, which is another concern. I was worried about Stokes coming straight back in for a series of this magnitude, and his fitness didn't look great throughout plus his bowling rhythm was all over the shop.

Leach is getting a lot of pelters, but I disagree that his selection was wrong. It was entirely correct to pick a spinner, it was just Leach's performance fell short of the standard required, in part due to his lack of test cricket recently! The wrong selection was taking Woakes over Broad, though Woakes still did OK.

Pink-ball test next. This is England's best chance of victory. I don't actually think England's pink-ball record is that good, and I believe Australia's pink-ball record is 100%, but these are the only tests where England are capable of rolling out Australia for 150. Not saying that will happen, just that's it possible, and in a low-scoring test England may have a shot. But I do still expect Australian victory.

I'd get Anderson and Broad in for Wood and Leach. Wouldn't pick a spinner for this and Wood can't play two back-to-back tests without serious risk of breaking down. I wouldn't be surprised if Stokes missed out due to fitness issues.

Australia could be without Warner and Hazlewood for the next test. I'm expecting Hazlewood to miss out, but Warner should be good to play. Might increase England's chances a little.

In the Lions match, Bess took 2/157 in the second innings at an economy of over 4. Lions are still sliding to defeat, but they're showing a bit of fight in the fourth innings with Bracey making a fifty.

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Post by msp83 Sat 11 Dec 2021, 2:52 pm

Duty281 wrote:Excellent to see England fined 100% of their match fee and docked five WTC points. The only disappointment is not seeing suspensions thrown around. Maybe next time? The deduction of points is fairly meaningless because England are not in a top two race, only Pakistan/India/Australia/NZ are.

Totally agree. All sides are guilty of this nonsense, England particularly so in recent times. Needs to be delt with harshly.

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Post by msp83 Sat 11 Dec 2021, 3:03 pm

Didn't catch much of play today as by the first session I missed mostly, England were done and dusted after a promising resistance that at least hinted the game going into late day 4.
Root didn't go on to get a massive one, Malan couldn't go on to that hundred either. Stokes is still rusty. Buttler couldn't produce a sustained counterattack, the lower order, that once made England such a formidable force, isn't the same any more. Nothing unexpected from the 20-Something Oliver Pope either, he's just terrible against spin. The likes of Ian Bell from yester years, weren't that good when the ball actually spun. But Pope can't play spinners, full-stop! and his game against pace isn't the best either. He can play some fine shots, has some natural talent by the look of it. He does have an impressive FC record too. There aren't too many standouts among those English batters one has seen at the top level of late. So they may have to carry on with him a while longer. But unless he really works hard on his technique, Pope isn't going too far in international cricket...

Great game for Nathan Lyon, getting to that 400 mileston at last. Green also showing with the ball at last. Regardless of his limited overs performances, M Marsh is still kept out of the test side, and Green needed a performance, rather than hype and potential to hold on to his place. He has started well overall in this game, despite that horrendous leave of the only ball he faced in the match!

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Post by guildfordbat Sat 11 Dec 2021, 7:37 pm

msp83 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Excellent to see England fined 100% of their match fee and docked five WTC points. The only disappointment is not seeing suspensions thrown around. Maybe next time? The deduction of points is fairly meaningless because England are not in a top two race, only Pakistan/India/Australia/NZ are.

Totally agree. All sides are guilty of this nonsense, England particularly so in recent times. Needs to be delt with harshly.

Also totally agree. The most important person at a match is - or, at least, should be - the spectator who has paid money to travel and watch at the ground. If he's not getting the overs he's paid to see, he's being short changed and that is very wrong.

I wonder if this fine and points deduction may affect selection and tactics for the second Test. Leach retained? Bess called up? Root bowling more? Maybe Malan too? Whatever is settled upon, we must get on with the game.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun 12 Dec 2021, 10:15 am

Sounds like Hazlewood will miss the 2nd test, and Warner is a doubt too
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Post by guildfordbat Sun 12 Dec 2021, 12:18 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Sounds like Hazlewood will miss the 2nd test, and Warner is a doubt too

Guess Richardson or Neser will replace Hazlewood. Neser was MotM with a tidy 7 wicket match haul including a fivefer in Australia A's 100+ run win over the Lions.

A second innings ton for Bracey in that Lions game and 6 rather expensive match wickets for Bess.

Not sure but think that's it for the Lions now - that right? Appreciate covid makes touring especially challenging but still a disappointing tour with little to obviously show for it.

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Post by Duty281 Sun 12 Dec 2021, 12:40 pm

Foakes (who should be playing in the actual team over Buttler) also made 73 in the Lions second innings.

I was watching the rugby on BT Sport yesterday and got very confused as they kept advertising the second test coverage as starting on Wednesday at 3am, even though it begins on Thursday. They then changed it to Wednesday night at 3am...why not just say Thursday morning?!

I also read that Joe Root will turn 31 in a few weeks. At the moment England are around the 4th best test side in the world, although it doesn't feel like that with the amount of clobberings they're taking from the top three, but thinking about Root's age got me to think about his retirement. Imagine in four years time if Root, Stokes, Anderson and Broad have all retired by then and what England's test team would look like without those four. True enough, the bowling may still be good enough to muddle through, but there would be nothing of quality in the batting ranks unless England discover some batsmen of true test quality in the next few years, and given they've only found a couple in the last decade we'd be right to be very concerned. If England couldn't get near to replacing Root or Stokes then there is very little to stop England's slide to the very foot of test cricket in that scenario.

In the 2021 calendar year, only two England batsmen actually average over 30 - Root (obviously) with 64, and Malan who's only had five innings with a 39 average. Burns averages 29, Pope a very worrying 24 (didn't realise it was that bad), Sibley 20, Lawrence 27, Bairstow 25, Buttler 29, Stokes 22, Hameed 27. Crawley averaged 11 before he was dropped. These are very grim times.

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Post by sirfredperry Sun 12 Dec 2021, 1:17 pm

Duty - Yes, those batting averages make for depressing reading.

But consider the opposition these relatively-inexperienced batters have faced. Eight of the Tests this year have been against India with two against the current Test Champions - NZ.

It's little wonder that the batting has been poor. Financial considerations and Covid necessities are also making it harder for England to get many Tests against the weaker Test nations at the moment.

It was a similar picture in the 1990s when the batting was also weak. So what did England do? They insisted on playing the two strongest sides - Australia and West Indies - in not just five-Test series but six-Test ones. Ye Gods!

Atherton, to my mind, was a fine Test batsman but he only averaged 37 cos he was facing the likes of McGrath, Walsh and Ambrose in Test after Test.

This all shows that averages can be misleading. Atherton was a better batsman than a number of those with superior Test averages and, like Root in 2021, Atherton made his runs in a weak England side.

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Post by Duty281 Sun 12 Dec 2021, 3:34 pm

Yes, that is a fair point that England have been playing the toughest test nations this year, with the exception of the two games v Sri Lanka. But still concerning to see most average in the 20s, as it doesn't really indicate they can average 40+ against the weaker test nations.

And there's not much respite coming up for England, either. After the four remaining tests v Australia, there's a three test series v the West Indies (maybe some runs there; don't bank on it though with scores of 77, 187 and 132 featuring on the last English tour of the West Indies), but that's followed up with home series v New Zealand and South Africa (both with strong pace attacks), then a winter series in the UAE (usual sub-continent disaster).

I remember when England's home summers tended to be test series v a lower-ranked nation as a sort of warm-up, then the main event v a higher-ranked nation e.g. Zimbabwe and South Africa in 2003, Bangladesh and Australia in 2005, Sri Lanka and India in 2011. Now it's New Zealand and India in 2021 or New Zealand and South Africa (and a bit of India) in 2022. No room to breathe!

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Post by Duty281 Mon 13 Dec 2021, 2:47 am

Hazlewood confirmed as out of the second test, and apparently he's struggling to make the Boxing Day test, too. Given he averages just under 20 with the pink ball this is an irritating setback for Aus, but they have two good back up options. I'd take a punt on Neser, personally.

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Post by king_carlos Mon 13 Dec 2021, 9:23 am

Remarkably Hazlewood's under 20 pink ball average is the worst of the established Aussie trio! Their collective records in D/N Tests is exceptional. It could get very ugly with England's batting.

Cummins - 26 wickets at 16.23
Starc - 46 wickets at 18.86
Hazlewood - 32 wickets at 19.90

Hazlewood is a massive loss though. When fully fit he offers such control throughout the innings as well as being lethal with the new ball.

Neser is a very underrated bowler but it seems that Richardson is next in line.

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Post by VTR Mon 13 Dec 2021, 10:32 am

So what we're really saying, is we need another 4 or 5 injuries to key players before Thursday!

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Post by king_carlos Mon 13 Dec 2021, 12:32 pm

Another thing to consider with the next Test is that Adelaide tends to turn and Lyon has a good record in pink ball Tests there. Granted their last D/N at Adelaide he only got 1 wicket but India were all out for 36 at second dig.

In D/N Tests at Adelaide Lyon has 19 wickets at 25. Not as destructive as Starc and Cummins but nothing to be sniffed at, especially with how some of this England side play spin. Malan and Pope in particular have massive disparities between their ability against pace and spin. That's further exacerbated for Malan being a leftie against a very good offie.

I do think England will want a spinner. Whether we have one good enough is another question. A lot of excuses are made for Leach around his management but his massive weaknesses in the 1st innings and to left-handers are really things that need working on at F-C level not in Tests. This isn't a popular opinion but I actually think England have managed Leach quite well by predominantly picking him when conditions and match-ups suit because he's a very conditions and match-up dependent bowler.

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Post by Soul Requiem Mon 13 Dec 2021, 12:40 pm

The poor management isn't when he's played but rather when he's not been able to play first class cricket, he's been an almost ever present in the wider squad. He can't work on his deficiencies if he can't play for his county.

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Post by king_carlos Mon 13 Dec 2021, 12:55 pm

That's covid affecting player release not the leadership though. If England want to pick Leach when a pitch is going to suit he needs to be in the squad in the build-up to Tests. Prior to covid releasing players back to counties was much simpler, not so much in the last two summers.

I'm no massive fan of Silverwood as a coach or Root as a captain. I do sometimes feel that they get blamed for circumstances beyond their control though. Namely too much cricket, covid and simply having a very poor group of players to pick from. Even the main strength in the seam bowling has a lot of fantastic players that need asterisks by their name these days due to injuries and/or age effecting durability.

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Post by Soul Requiem Mon 13 Dec 2021, 12:58 pm

That's the leadership selecting a player for the squad when they had no intention of having him play, you can't have it both ways. The management have messed him around for no reason whatsoever and when we're talking about matches taking place in England it's an unfathomable level of ineptitude.

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Post by king_carlos Mon 13 Dec 2021, 1:04 pm

I'm not having it both ways.

If you want to pick Leach on occasions that a pitch looks like it will turn he needs to be in the squad. Covid in the last two years then hampers player release back to counties. Pretty simple point.

That's not having it both ways. It's just pointing out how difficult covid has made player management.

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Post by alfie Tue 14 Dec 2021, 7:55 am

Just read a piece on BBC that suggested England might play Anderson in Adelaide but leave Broad out again...

If they do that I will be totally convinced they are nuts  !  What would they be "saving" him for ?  Or is the suggestion that he has suddenly lost his place in the chain ? He didn't have much fun in India but he was hardly alone in that...and of course injury derailed his home season early : the fact that they've brought him on tour at all surely indicates they intend to use him - and missing the first match should ensure he is pi..ed off enough to be ready to do damage Smile

Also an article that , among other things , seemed to advocate playing Robinson in all five matches. Now , I admire what Robinson has brought to the team ; and he looks well suited to Australian conditions ; but to claim that he never gets tired flies in the face of the evidence. For all his resilience he does seem inclined to lose pace quite markedly in later spells and I don't think he should be expected to perform without rest throughout the series. A fair case for keeping him on for Adelaide , I think (provided he has recovered well from the first game) but I'd still expect him to get a rest at some point.

Assuming England do (reasonably enough) select Robinson , Anderson and Robinson for the pink ball game (Wood surely will be nursed) then they need someone who can bat at eight : so either Bess - or Woakes if they are happy to leave spin to Root. Unless they go with Michael Vaughan's rather weird thought of loading the batting with another specialist and relying on three main bowlers plus Stoke and Root ! Think that would be a very strange tactic .

Would really be a good time to get selection - and other plans - right for once...

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Post by king_carlos Tue 14 Dec 2021, 9:02 am

It's a pack of bowlers that need a lot of nursing.

Those warm-ups getting virtually wiped out made a tough tour even tougher.

I reckon I'd take the risk on picking Anderson and Broad in T2 but having both in the same side without recent cricket is definitely a risk I think. Having had good weather in Brisbane over T1 they will have at least got more 'overs' into their legs through bowling everyday, which pundits in Australia say they were doing extensively with Jon Lewis.

Adelaide tends to spin so I'm not convinced by all out seam. I'm also not convinced by our spin options though. 4 left-handers in the top 7 and 2 right-handers in Smith and Labuschagne who average very well against SLA isn't a great match-up for Leach. Sadly though the other option in Bess could barely land them earlier this year. That cupboard's as bare as the batting.

I can see lots of problems with few solutions.

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Post by king_carlos Tue 14 Dec 2021, 9:44 am

Not so fun fact I just found out. Pope has played more Tests than Marnus!

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue 14 Dec 2021, 3:43 pm

https://wisden.com/series-stories/ashes-2021-22/england-planned-for-losing-a-wicket-to-the-first-ball-of-the-ashes

Is it any wonder we're so bad with this blubbering idiot leading the way?
For his next trick, "lads it's alright we knew we were going to lose that day nighter by an innings, all part of the plan"

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Post by guildfordbat Tue 14 Dec 2021, 4:26 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:https://wisden.com/series-stories/ashes-2021-22/england-planned-for-losing-a-wicket-to-the-first-ball-of-the-ashes

Is it any wonder we're so bad with this blubbering idiot leading the way?
For his next trick, "lads it's alright we knew we were going to lose that day nighter by an innings, all part of the plan"


Shocked

Good job Burns was skittled first ball. Otherwise, we would have been scratching our heads as what to do. Rolling Eyes

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Post by Duty281 Tue 14 Dec 2021, 6:57 pm

No surprise really, you just have to listen at the utter rubbish Root comes out with in post-match interviews.

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Post by KP_fan Tue 14 Dec 2021, 8:09 pm

Aus from their P.OV  lost the wrong bowler....Starc looked like the weakest link.
Richardson from what I remember of him as an apt replacement for Hazelwood....and probably wasn't too far away from playing if Starc didn't get his radar right in T2.

Warner recovered just enuf.....tender in the ribs might bring out a more attacking form of him from the go.

Eng will bring in Broad & Anderson  for Wood and Leach. Keeping Broad out was a planted Red Herring I think to let Aussies not prepare to face Broad's round the wicket angled in.
Eng should get rid of Pope....but they won't after just one test......for if they could see in him what I do they would not have brought him

Dan Lawrence I checked is still in the squad......most nimble footed of Eng's "newer" batsmen would have been my pick.....and if the pitch turns in 3rd/ 4th inning He and Root can do 20 second inning overs between them
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