PGATour Running Commentary January 2022

First topic message reminder :

Happy New Year.  After a nearly a year and half, its time for a new thread.

39 ofthe 40 Players eligible to play Sentry ToC are playing.  Only one missing is Rory McIlroy.

That's a good point Mac. And if Rory (or Rahm or Koepka ...) won by that margin the narrative would be different this day. Hope Harman puts some decent claret in that jug, but I'm guessing it will be filled with beer.

Again, haven't seen the stats, but from eyeballing where they were hitting approaches from it seemed like Harmon's driver was longer and more accurate than Rory et al's driving irons.

Also how painful was it watching Rory and Fleetwood try and hole putts over the weekend?

Shotrock wrote:That's a good point Mac. And if Rory (or Rahm or Koepka ...) won by that margin the narrative would be different this day. Hope Harman puts some decent claret in that jug, but I'm guessing it will be filled with beer.

Probably something repulsive like Budweiser or Miller too.

Miller is like sex on the beach ... close to water ...

Some very good American beers to be had, but certainly not Bud and Miller!

Sad to see the major season end. I'll be putting money on Rory for Augusta next April.

Shotrock wrote:Miller is like sex on the beach ... close to water ...

Some very good American beers to be had, but certainly not Bud and Miller!

Sad to see the major season end. I'll be putting money on Rory for Augusta next April.

Agreed, I've had many a good American beer, but so many Americans are content to drink ghastly stuff.

With the season ending this early, isn't there now room for a fifth Major?

McLaren wrote:Also, is it just me or were Rory and maybe a few others playing for OWGR points or cash rather than going for the win. The only way Rory could have won was if he had wedge into the greens. And the only way to do that was to go for it with the driver. Of course that could have meant a 75 but I see his options as; play sensible golf and get top 5, hit driver as often as possible and shoot 76 or hit driver as often as possible having the driving day of his life and shoot 63. The last option obviously being unlikely but it was the only way to win.

Harman was in the lead and hitting driver (albeit not that long), how did Rory (or anyone else) expect to massively out score him hitting 5 irons into the greens from irons off the tee?

Realistically if Rahm, Rory and Tommy looked at Harmans putting stats on Saturday night they would have thought if he gets anywhere near that Sunday the game is already up. So yeah maybe it was a case of owgr points, playing decent hoping for a Harman collapse but not imploding if it doesn’t happen. Rahm and Rory gave him too much of a start, Tommy peaked too early.  As it happened Harman didn’t fold in any way, the front running composure was admirable for someone with relatively few visits to the winners circle, fair play to him I say and well done to both him and the course for poking the bomb and gougers in the eye. Didn’t make it an in your face exciting watch but there were things to admire.

One thing I've seen mentioned is how good of a junior and amateur Harmon was. Can't say I remember that but interesting to know.

McLaren wrote:One thing I've seen mentioned is how good of a junior and amateur Harmon was. Can't say I remember that but interesting to know.

Quite. Think he was world #1 amateur at one point. A good winner for me and love the fact that the standard bomb/gouge approach of so many came unstuck on a brilliantly set up Hoylake. Would have liked a bit more excitement come Sunday, but can't blame Harman for that.

Re. Open rota courses, think it has to stay links, simply because so much else is the same old, water-based boredom. Don't think R&A should go anywhere near Turnberry or Trump's other track whilst Trump has anything to do with them, no matter the courses and their qualities. Castle Stuart was absolutely butchered by the pros when it hosted the Scottish Open. Lock Lomond looks beautiful, but my recollection was it didn't test pros enough and it's not links either. Saunton is lovely, but think pros would murder it/them - infrastructure wouldn't cope either. No idea on commercial aspects, but RCD might work. Certainly worth reviewing rota and whether there are other courses worthy of a visit.

What has who owns the course got to do with it?
Haven't we seen how ridiculous it looks with the Coutts bank account issue?

navyblueshorts wrote:

McLaren wrote:One thing I've seen mentioned is how good of a junior and amateur Harmon was. Can't say I remember that but interesting to know.

Quite. Think he was world #1 amateur at one point. A good winner for me and love the fact that the standard bomb/gouge approach of so many came unstuck on a brilliantly set up Hoylake. Would have liked a bit more excitement come Sunday, but can't blame Harman for that.

Re. Open rota courses, think it has to stay links, simply because so much else is the same old, water-based boredom. Don't think R&A should go anywhere near Turnberry or Trump's other track whilst Trump has anything to do with them, no matter the courses and their qualities. Castle Stuart was absolutely butchered by the pros when it hosted the Scottish Open. Lock Lomond looks beautiful, but my recollection was it didn't test pros enough and it's not links either. Saunton is lovely, but think pros would murder it/them - infrastructure wouldn't cope either. No idea on commercial aspects, but RCD might work. Certainly worth reviewing rota and whether there are other courses worthy of a visit.

Navy & Mac re Brian Harman, I'm reminded of a post I put on here a few years back:

Re: PGA Tour: Wells Fargo Championship: Notes from the Ballwasher
Post by ralphjohn69 Sun 07 May 2017, 11:25 pm

8 years ago Scotsman Gavin Dear played Brian Harman in the lead game in the singles at the Walker Cup both days, halving on the Saturday before beating him 3&2 on the Sunday.  This weekend Brian Harman won on the PGA tour winning >$1million while Gavin Dear got to play with me in the Lothians Team Tournament at Ratho Park (he shot 1-over 70 incidentally, I had a rather miserable 77!)  zen



Gavin Dear was a member of Prestonfield at the time, think he's since been at Pumpherston & Bathgate although he doesn't play that much any more, interesting to compare careers with Harman since that Walker Cup.

I remember Gavin Dear. I think he's some commercial manager at Shotscope now. 

Amazing how few GB and I players make a golf career.

ralphjohn69 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

McLaren wrote:One thing I've seen mentioned is how good of a junior and amateur Harmon was. Can't say I remember that but interesting to know.

Quite. Think he was world #1 amateur at one point. A good winner for me and love the fact that the standard bomb/gouge approach of so many came unstuck on a brilliantly set up Hoylake. Would have liked a bit more excitement come Sunday, but can't blame Harman for that.

Re. Open rota courses, think it has to stay links, simply because so much else is the same old, water-based boredom. Don't think R&A should go anywhere near Turnberry or Trump's other track whilst Trump has anything to do with them, no matter the courses and their qualities. Castle Stuart was absolutely butchered by the pros when it hosted the Scottish Open. Lock Lomond looks beautiful, but my recollection was it didn't test pros enough and it's not links either. Saunton is lovely, but think pros would murder it/them - infrastructure wouldn't cope either. No idea on commercial aspects, but RCD might work. Certainly worth reviewing rota and whether there are other courses worthy of a visit.

Navy & Mac re Brian Harman, I'm reminded of a post I put on here a few years back:

Re: PGA Tour: Wells Fargo Championship: Notes from the Ballwasher
Post by ralphjohn69 Sun 07 May 2017, 11:25 pm

8 years ago Scotsman Gavin Dear played Brian Harman in the lead game in the singles at the Walker Cup both days, halving on the Saturday before beating him 3&2 on the Sunday.  This weekend Brian Harman won on the PGA tour winning >$1million while Gavin Dear got to play with me in the Lothians Team Tournament at Ratho Park (he shot 1-over 70 incidentally, I had a rather miserable 77!)  zen



Gavin Dear was a member of Prestonfield at the time, think he's since been at Pumpherston & Bathgate although he doesn't play that much any more, interesting to compare careers with Harman since that Walker Cup.

Interesting Ralph, thanks.

Found this on him

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/local-sport/gavin-dear-quits-pro-golf-2720902



Can't say the lothians team tournament holds many happy memories for me. Something about that day and the format has always brought the worst out of my game.

super_realist wrote:What has who owns the course got to do with it?
Haven't we seen how ridiculous it looks with the Coutts bank account issue?

It's called taking a stand, or drawing a line. You'd no doubt be OK if Hitler/Pol Pot, or more contemporarily, Putin, owned them. Enough of this - the idea that sport and politics should never mix is, and always has been, stupid.

One could argue that banking is essential - golf itself is in no way essential, and neither is playing events at golf courses owned by scum like Trump. Plenty of other good venues that could be used.

navyblueshorts wrote:

super_realist wrote:What has who owns the course got to do with it?
Haven't we seen how ridiculous it looks with the Coutts bank account issue?

It's called taking a stand, or drawing a line. You'd no doubt be OK if Hitler/Pol Pot, or more contemporarily, Putin, owned them. Enough of this - the idea that sport and politics should never mix is, and always has been, stupid.

One could argue that banking is essential - golf itself is in no way essential, and neither is playing events at golf courses owned by scum like Trump. Plenty of other good venues that could be used.

 Ha ha ha, yet golf football, F1, boxing, athletics is in bed/has been in bed with Russia, China and Saudi Arabia, but apparently that's alright? 
How is that any different?

Super

I'd rather golf (the R&A) got it right occasionally, wouldn't you? Would you prefer they worked with Trump just for consistency?

McLaren wrote:Super

I'd rather golf (the R&A) got it right occasionally, wouldn't you? Would you prefer they worked with Trump just for consistency?

Mac, why do you care? You don't care about all the other things in sport you turn a blind eye to, but one ghastly guy owning a course means it's the end of the world. 
Wouldn't you rather sport was more moral in general, rather than be so inconsistent and so hypocritical?
Do you boycott F1 or if your team plays Newcastle? No, you don't, you consume the content with gusto.

super_realist wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

super_realist wrote:What has who owns the course got to do with it?
Haven't we seen how ridiculous it looks with the Coutts bank account issue?

It's called taking a stand, or drawing a line. You'd no doubt be OK if Hitler/Pol Pot, or more contemporarily, Putin, owned them. Enough of this - the idea that sport and politics should never mix is, and always has been, stupid.

One could argue that banking is essential - golf itself is in no way essential, and neither is playing events at golf courses owned by scum like Trump. Plenty of other good venues that could be used.

 Ha ha ha, yet golf football, F1, boxing, athletics is in bed/has been in bed with Russia, China and Saudi Arabia, but apparently that's alright? 
How is that any different?

Oh dear. Whataboutery at its finest. The fact that those other situations have occurred doesn't a) make them 'right' or, b) mean I think they're either right or that I support them. I get it that you think there's no extreme that you aren't happy with, but that might not be the case with others. We used to think slavery was OK, but guess what?

It's not whatabouterry at all. What's good for the goose is good for the gander right? After all there's plenty of other countries they could hold F1, Boxing, Athletics, Football in isn't there?

The fake indignation at the prospect of Turnberry holding the Open whilst the same people simultaneously consume sport held in countries far worse or watch clubs owned by murderous regimes is just fine.

Remember this is the same sport that has got into bed with LIV and combined all tours with the Saudi wealth fund. Almost as if you don't know what irony is.

Petulantly banning Turnberry in some stupid attempt to feign a moral compass is like disinviting Fred West from your party when you've already invited Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Heydrich, Putin, Imin, Pol Pot etc.

super_realist wrote:It's not whatabouterry at all. What's good for the goose is good for the gander right? After all there's plenty of other countries they could hold F1, Boxing, Athletics, Football in isn't there?

The fake indignation at the prospect of Turnberry holding the Open whilst the same people simultaneously consume sport held in countries far worse or watch clubs owned by murderous regimes is just fine.

Remember this is the same sport that has got into bed with LIV and combined all tours with the Saudi wealth fund. Almost as if you don't know what irony is.

Petulantly banning Turnberry in some stupid attempt to feign a moral compass is like disinviting Fred West from your party when you've already invited Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Heydrich, Putin, Imin, Pol Pot etc.

Nope; didn't think you'd understand...

Watching the FedEx St Jude. Nick Dougherty interviewed Justin Rose. Justin had just shot 61 in the third round after a first round 76. After the interview, Andrew Coltart and Rich Beem were comparing statistics. Justin hit less fairways, was worse in proximity etc. in his 61 than the 76. BUT - he had less putts apparently. A lot less I suspect. But I never did like this obsession with statistics - in any sport.

I like statistics for sport. Helps one improve, and spatial data is very useful too.

Not since Bubba Watson has there been a more irritating (to me) golfer to watch than Jordan Spieth. Looks like he thinks every single putt should go in and every approach should be pin high. Ugh. (Perhaps there's a lesson there? ...)

Ironic that Lucas Glover doesn't ever wear a glove.

FIGJAM PR firm I'm sure fully engaged to combat the "$1 Billion" alleged gambling losses. What a tool. I suggest he goes all in and works to secure the biggest Las Vegas casino endorsement contract available.

Shotrock wrote:Not since Bubba Watson has there been a more irritating (to me) golfer to watch than Jordan Spieth. Looks like he thinks every single putt should go in and every approach should be pin high. Ugh. (Perhaps there's a lesson there? ...)

Ironic that Lucas Glover doesn't ever wear a glove.

FIGJAM PR firm I'm sure fully engaged to combat the "$1 Billion" alleged gambling losses. What a tool. I suggest he goes all in and works to secure the biggest Las Vegas casino endorsement contract available.

He's just boring to watch in my opinion. So slow, pondering and dull. 
He's also the sort of wonk who talks to his ball and who says "we" instead of "I". I don't see your caddies name on any trophies Reverend Spieth.

Some interesting decisions coming up for the US Ryder Cup Team - Harman and Clark making their ways on as locks via the points qualification has thrown the likes of Morikawa, Finau, Thomas etc into needing a captains pick...but Finau/Thomas in particular aren't playing well, yet you have someone like Glover who's now won twice in two weeks and had a great month - do you go with the hot hand or someone more proven but in poorer form?

I don't think form is that important in a different format like Matchplay
Europe have got many a good tune out of out of form players.
I'd be more inclined to focus on picking players with strong Matchplay histories.

super_realist wrote:

Shotrock wrote:Not since Bubba Watson has there been a more irritating (to me) golfer to watch than Jordan Spieth. Looks like he thinks every single putt should go in and every approach should be pin high. Ugh. (Perhaps there's a lesson there? ...)

Ironic that Lucas Glover doesn't ever wear a glove.

FIGJAM PR firm I'm sure fully engaged to combat the "$1 Billion" alleged gambling losses. What a tool. I suggest he goes all in and works to secure the biggest Las Vegas casino endorsement contract available.

He's just boring to watch in my opinion. So slow, pondering and dull. 
He's also the sort of wonk who talks to his ball and who says "we" instead of "I". I don't see your caddies name on any trophies Reverend Spieth.

The "we" terminology has to go. Just sickening. The caddies only real contribution is carrying the bag.

McLaren wrote:

super_realist wrote:

Shotrock wrote:Not since Bubba Watson has there been a more irritating (to me) golfer to watch than Jordan Spieth. Looks like he thinks every single putt should go in and every approach should be pin high. Ugh. (Perhaps there's a lesson there? ...)

Ironic that Lucas Glover doesn't ever wear a glove.

FIGJAM PR firm I'm sure fully engaged to combat the "$1 Billion" alleged gambling losses. What a tool. I suggest he goes all in and works to secure the biggest Las Vegas casino endorsement contract available.

He's just boring to watch in my opinion. So slow, pondering and dull. 
He's also the sort of wonk who talks to his ball and who says "we" instead of "I". I don't see your caddies name on any trophies Reverend Spieth.

The "we" terminology has to go. Just sickening. The caddies only real contribution is carrying the bag.

Danny Willet is terrible for that.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Some interesting decisions coming up for the US Ryder Cup Team - Harman and Clark making their ways on as locks via the points qualification has thrown the likes of Morikawa, Finau, Thomas etc into needing a captains pick...but Finau/Thomas in particular aren't playing well, yet you have someone like Glover who's now won twice in two weeks and had a great month - do you go with the hot hand or someone more proven but in poorer form?

I'm no Prince Drac (Nosferatu on "X"), but if Xander Schauffele and Jordan Spieth do REALLY well at the BMW Championship this week, they might knock Brooks Koepka out of the automatic spots. (Not 100% sure of this). So would Zach Johnson still pick him? Bear in mind that Brooks is the PGA Champion, and the PGA of America administer the US side of things.

Shotrock wrote:Not since Bubba Watson has there been a more irritating (to me) golfer to watch than Jordan Spieth. Looks like he thinks every single putt should go in and every approach should be pin high. Ugh. (Perhaps there's a lesson there? ...)

Oh, I dunno. Have to go some to beat Bubba to that title. Think Spieth does overdo it sometimes, but I'd much rather him than Gerry - Spieth's not a Saudi money grabber either, which makes the comparison a non-starter for me.

Shotrock wrote:Ironic that Lucas Glover doesn't ever wear a glove.

Ironic?

Shotrock wrote:FIGJAM PR firm I'm sure fully engaged to combat the "$1 Billion" alleged gambling losses. What a tool. I suggest he goes all in and works to secure the biggest Las Vegas casino endorsement contract available.

Agree 100% on this one. Like the suggestion for a sponsor as well!

I'm never wrong wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Some interesting decisions coming up for the US Ryder Cup Team - Harman and Clark making their ways on as locks via the points qualification has thrown the likes of Morikawa, Finau, Thomas etc into needing a captains pick...but Finau/Thomas in particular aren't playing well, yet you have someone like Glover who's now won twice in two weeks and had a great month - do you go with the hot hand or someone more proven but in poorer form?

I'm no Prince Drac (Nosferatu on "X"), but if Xander Schauffele and Jordan Spieth do REALLY well at the BMW Championship this week, they might knock Brooks Koepka out of the automatic spots. (Not 100% sure of this). So would Zach Johnson still pick him? Bear in mind that Brooks is the PGA Champion, and the PGA of America administer the US side of things.

Should that come to pass, I would hope not. If I'm one of the non-LIV players on the team, and a Koepka etc is picked, I'd be very unhappy. Notwithstanding any public utterances from any on the team if this happens, I suspect it might be different behind closed doors, and a bad team atmosphere isn't going to help as far as I can see.

navyblueshorts wrote:

Shotrock wrote:Not since Bubba Watson has there been a more irritating (to me) golfer to watch than Jordan Spieth. Looks like he thinks every single putt should go in and every approach should be pin high. Ugh. (Perhaps there's a lesson there? ...)

Oh, I dunno. Have to go some to beat Bubba to that title. Think Spieth does overdo it sometimes, but I'd much rather him than Gerry - Spieth's not a Saudi money grabber either, which makes the comparison a non-starter for me.

Shotrock wrote:Ironic that Lucas Glover doesn't ever wear a glove.

Ironic?

Shotrock wrote:FIGJAM PR firm I'm sure fully engaged to combat the "$1 Billion" alleged gambling losses. What a tool. I suggest he goes all in and works to secure the biggest Las Vegas casino endorsement contract available.

Agree 100% on this one. Like the suggestion for a sponsor as well!

Not a Saudi money grabber? Nah, just plays in Qatar, USA, China, Dubai and other really lovely countries with excellent human rights and nothing dodgy whatsoever going on in them.

I'm never wrong wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Some interesting decisions coming up for the US Ryder Cup Team - Harman and Clark making their ways on as locks via the points qualification has thrown the likes of Morikawa, Finau, Thomas etc into needing a captains pick...but Finau/Thomas in particular aren't playing well, yet you have someone like Glover who's now won twice in two weeks and had a great month - do you go with the hot hand or someone more proven but in poorer form?

I'm no Prince Drac (Nosferatu on "X"), but if Xander Schauffele and Jordan Spieth do REALLY well at the BMW Championship this week, they might knock Brooks Koepka out of the automatic spots. (Not 100% sure of this). So would Zach Johnson still pick him? Bear in mind that Brooks is the PGA Champion, and the PGA of America administer the US side of things.

I think his performances in the majors have pretty much got him nailed on as either a pick or automatically. He also seems to have been one of the "LIV defectors" who hasn't burnt any bridges with the current crop so would imagine he'd be fine in the team, unlike Bryson/Pat Reed

super_realist wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Shotrock wrote:Not since Bubba Watson has there been a more irritating (to me) golfer to watch than Jordan Spieth. Looks like he thinks every single putt should go in and every approach should be pin high. Ugh. (Perhaps there's a lesson there? ...)

Oh, I dunno. Have to go some to beat Bubba to that title. Think Spieth does overdo it sometimes, but I'd much rather him than Gerry - Spieth's not a Saudi money grabber either, which makes the comparison a non-starter for me.

Shotrock wrote:Ironic that Lucas Glover doesn't ever wear a glove.

Ironic?

Shotrock wrote:FIGJAM PR firm I'm sure fully engaged to combat the "$1 Billion" alleged gambling losses. What a tool. I suggest he goes all in and works to secure the biggest Las Vegas casino endorsement contract available.

Agree 100% on this one. Like the suggestion for a sponsor as well!

Not a Saudi money grabber? Nah, just plays in Qatar, USA, China, Dubai and other really lovely countries with excellent human rights and nothing dodgy whatsoever going on in them.

Yawn. I told you already about line drawing. For me, this is a line for golf. Happy if you wish to disagree.

Ha ha. Of course there's a line, it's just set at a ridiculous level. 
I don't care about the LIV tour a jot by the way, I just like to point out the hypocrisy, double standards and lack of objectivity from that most useless of organisations, the BBC, golfers, tours etc
The bar should be set much lower, but to actually live their values would cost them too much

Super

I still don't get your obsession with hypocrisy or consistency. They have nothing to do with the truth of the matter.

McLaren wrote:Super

I still don't get your obsession with hypocrisy or consistency. They have nothing to do with the truth of the matter.

You've always demonstrated that you don't care about anything other than "the message", so you'd take advice that's it's not good to murder someone from Fred West or Harold Shipman.

I don't see how you can't see that  the strength of a message is best delivered by someone who actually believes in and follows their own advice, sportsmen are just utter hypocrites, much like the majority of protestors. 
People don't react well to "do as I say, not as I do"

super_realist wrote:Ha ha. Of course there's a line, it's just set at a ridiculous level. 
I don't care about the LIV tour a jot by the way, I just like to point out the hypocrisy, double standards and lack of objectivity from that most useless of organisations, the BBC, golfers, tours etc
The bar should be set much lower, but to actually live their values would cost them too much

I get the pointer re. supposed hypocrisy etc. However, we are where we are re. the past in any situation. That doesn't mean one continues to disgrace oneself moving into the future, continually getting closer to Pandæmonium, does it? At some point, individuals have to say enough. For me, what Saudi are currently trying to is too far and already very wealthy golfers (and footballers) should be in a very easy position to say "No, thanks" and be clear why. What's clear is that money is the be all and end all for these wealthy individuals (look at Henderson, for example), which I think is a shame, but probably explains the fact that humans are so often up a creek w/o any sort of paddle.

McLaren wrote:Super

I still don't get your obsession with hypocrisy or consistency. They have nothing to do with the truth of the matter.

No; you wouldn't understand someone who places value upon that.

Incidentally, your silence is very loud on this case:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66513959

navyblueshorts wrote:

super_realist wrote:Ha ha. Of course there's a line, it's just set at a ridiculous level. 
I don't care about the LIV tour a jot by the way, I just like to point out the hypocrisy, double standards and lack of objectivity from that most useless of organisations, the BBC, golfers, tours etc
The bar should be set much lower, but to actually live their values would cost them too much

I get the pointer re. supposed hypocrisy etc. However, we are where we are re. the past in any situation. That doesn't mean one continues to disgrace oneself moving into the future, continually getting closer to Pandæmonium, does it? At some point, individuals have to say enough. For me, what Saudi are currently trying to is too far and already very wealthy golfers (and footballers) should be in a very easy position to say "No, thanks" and be clear why. What's clear is that money is the be all and end all for these wealthy individuals (look at Henderson, for example), which I think is a shame, but probably explains the fact that humans are so often up a creek w/o any sort of paddle.

I get what you're saying but this is happening all very recently in many sports Golf, Football, Athletics, Boxing, F1 etc have all got in bed with Saudi Arabia and other countries , but it's only golf that incurs the wrath of the self righteous, fake progressives like Mac, Gary Lineker, Gary Neville etc who all pick and chose what "offends" them and what is absolutely fine. 

There is a line, but virtually every sport escapes criticism despite being miles across that line . That's the hypocrisy and that's the lack of consistency. It seems genocidal China is fine, but Saudi Arabia isn't and only golf in Saudi Arabia at that. The likes of the Supreme Hypocrite Lewis Hamilton won't boycott Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain etc because it would cost them money, as such their words are meaningless and unless you're Mac anything they say on the matter is meaningless.

super_realist wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

super_realist wrote:Ha ha. Of course there's a line, it's just set at a ridiculous level. 
I don't care about the LIV tour a jot by the way, I just like to point out the hypocrisy, double standards and lack of objectivity from that most useless of organisations, the BBC, golfers, tours etc
The bar should be set much lower, but to actually live their values would cost them too much

I get the pointer re. supposed hypocrisy etc. However, we are where we are re. the past in any situation. That doesn't mean one continues to disgrace oneself moving into the future, continually getting closer to Pandæmonium, does it? At some point, individuals have to say enough. For me, what Saudi are currently trying to is too far and already very wealthy golfers (and footballers) should be in a very easy position to say "No, thanks" and be clear why. What's clear is that money is the be all and end all for these wealthy individuals (look at Henderson, for example), which I think is a shame, but probably explains the fact that humans are so often up a creek w/o any sort of paddle.

I get what you're saying but this is happening all very recently in many sports Golf, Football, Athletics, Boxing, F1 etc have all got in bed with Saudi Arabia and other countries , but it's only golf that incurs the wrath of the self righteous, fake progressives like Mac, Gary Lineker, Gary Neville etc who all pick and chose what "offends" them and what is absolutely fine. 

There is a line, but virtually every sport escapes criticism despite being miles across that line . That's the hypocrisy and that's the lack of consistency. It seems genocidal China is fine, but Saudi Arabia isn't and only golf in Saudi Arabia at that. The likes of the Supreme Hypocrite Lewis Hamilton won't boycott Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain etc because it would cost them money, as such their words are meaningless and unless you're Mac anything they say on the matter is meaningless.

I’m all for boycotting Saudi, China, Russia etc. not engaging with that little triumvirate is the very least the world community should be doing. Tennis appears to already have relented re Russia, football is so beyond redemption having had its last 2 WCs in Russia & Qatar and in club football accepting ownership from Saudi and indeed other dodgy individuals doesn’t sit well.
Yes there’s been token action like hounding the likes of Abramovich out of Chelsea but that seems a bit hollow when Bojos mate Ledbedev still sits in the House of Lords. Basically that just says we’re a bit of a shambles at taking a stand against tyranny.

Hey all...
As per Saudi's and sport... IMO Rory has it basically correct. About all anyone can do is give them a seat at the table [hopefully] in a way they don't totally disrupt your sport... because LIV proves they are certainly willing to disrupt to get what they want. Hate it, but PGAT/DPWT has to make the PIF deal. It's the only way to minimize LIV and at least "somewhat" re-unite the sport.

Also... R&A is 100% correct in avoiding Turnberry for now... for exactly the reason they said. Not until the focus can be on the Open, instead of the other BS...

robopz wrote:Also... R&A is 100% correct in avoiding Turnberry for now... for exactly the reason they said. Not until the focus can be on the Open, instead of the other BS...

So what happens to his assets IF he goes to jail?? Asking for a friend.

super_realist wrote:

I get what you're saying but this is happening all very recently in many sports Golf, Football, Athletics, Boxing, F1 etc have all got in bed with Saudi Arabia and other countries , but it's only golf that incurs the wrath of the self righteous, fake progressives like Mac, Gary Lineker, Gary Neville etc who all pick and chose what "offends" them and what is absolutely fine. 

There is a line, but virtually every sport escapes criticism despite being miles across that line . That's the hypocrisy and that's the lack of consistency. It seems genocidal China is fine, but Saudi Arabia isn't and only golf in Saudi Arabia at that. The likes of the Supreme Hypocrite Lewis Hamilton won't boycott Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain etc because it would cost them money, as such their words are meaningless and unless you're Mac anything they say on the matter is meaningless.

This has been explained to you many times. All instances of sportswashing are bad. But in the case of golf the Saudis were trying to go a step further than just stage an event or own one team. They wanted to own elite pro golf. If you could abandon the whataboutery mindset it would make thinking about these issues much more simple for you,

Such a weak excuse Mac. As usual just a champagne do gooding progressive.

Just watched the the Korn Ferry Tour Championship. Depending on where a player finished in the tournament, it would decide if they made the PGA Tour. Lift, clean and place local rule in effect. Player initially finishes inside top 30 and is on course to get Tour card. Them the rules people check his lift clean and place on the 15th hole and find he placed it incorrectly - two shot penalty. Drops outside top 30 and misses out on card. No intent to cheat, but mistake made. Now has to got to Q School to see if he can qualify that way.

Enjoyed the finish to the Sanderson yesterday - five man playoff, including Ludvig Aberg (impressive finish one week after the Ryder cup!) won by a 40-50 foot birdie by Luke List. Fun little event

Nice to see Camilo Villegas back on the winner's rostrum again.

Yeah good to see. Was one of those players who just falls off a cliff performance wise. Is he still getting flat to the ground to read putts?

Looks like that overrated new boy, Ludvig Åberg, isn't really doing a great deal...

Good weekend for Scandinavian golfers, with Nicolai Hojgaard cleaning up at the DPW Tour Championship as well.