F1 2022 season - Michael Masi sacked

First topic message reminder :

Otmar Szafnauer has left Aston Martin, widely expected, after Martin Whitmarsh joined the team.

Jeff Navarro wrote:Walls are closing in on LeClerc…Maranello starting to question whether that 5 year deal was merited…
Ferrari would willing swap LeClerc for Hamilton is what I’ve heard…
LeClerc’s future is intertwined with Binotto, should they team boss get axed - LeClerc’s position could be vulnerable.

I doubt there's any way Hamilton would leave Mercedes now. He's achieved so much there and Mercedes have fully bought into his diversity team project.

Depends if he thinks Mercedes can deliver wdc #8 before he retires.

Worth pointing out, recent updates for Ferrari and Mercedes, both cars are on the the weight limit.

Red Bull’s recent updates have increased the weight to +10kg.

Pretty ominous for when Red Bull introduces that major update at Belgium...

Pr4wn wrote:

Jeff Navarro wrote:Walls are closing in on LeClerc…Maranello starting to question whether that 5 year deal was merited…
Ferrari would willing swap LeClerc for Hamilton is what I’ve heard…
LeClerc’s future is intertwined with Binotto, should they team boss get axed - LeClerc’s position could be vulnerable.

I doubt there's any way Hamilton would leave Mercedes now. He's achieved so much there and Mercedes have fully bought into his diversity team project.

If this Mercedes requested regulation change gets overruled - Mercedes are miles off pace. So does Hamilton stay at Mercedes or go to Ferrari to try to get that 8th championship.

That said, I would be mildly surprised were LeClerc to be punted. Ferrari have far bigger issues to a title challenge

GSC wrote:Depends if he thinks Mercedes can deliver wdc #8 before he retires.

I think Lewis is is a similar situation to Ricciardo when he was at Red Bull (i.e. the only way is down if he moves).

Mercedes may not be able to deliver another title right now, but where is he going to go?

Max is the golden boy at RB. There's no way Lewis would play wingman and Horner wouldn't want the hassle of managing 2 drivers fighting to be #1.

Same thing at Ferrari - they've seemingly put all their eggs in the basket labelled Charles Leclerc.


Neither team will want to invest in a driver who is in the twilight of their career. Although Lewis is definitely still competitive, he has at best another 2-3 years in him. Meanwhile both teams are already nurturing the next generation of star drivers / future champions.

The way I see it Lewis is stuck at Mercedes. Although Russell is definitely giving him a run for his money, he's still top dog by virtue of seniority / silverware won etc. They're the best team outside of RB & Ferrari and Lewis is one of the top drivers along with Leclerc & Verstappen. Basically its the best deal both sides can get right now.

GSC wrote:
That said, I would be mildly surprised were LeClerc to be punted. Ferrari have far bigger issues to a title challenge

Agreed. Despite his problems this season, he is still one of the best drivers on the grid and he doesn't make mistakes that often. I think Ferrari need to get their house in order, regarding car reliability, race strategy and pit performance, before they start being too critical of Charles.

I could see them ditching Sainz, but even that's a bit of a stretch. I think he's done a better job of being a wingman at Ferrari than Perez has done at Red Bull, in the sense that he's a lot closer to his team mate than Perez is to Max.

Although saying that Leclerc has retired while leading 3 races...thats a potential 75 points he could have had. Must be absolutely gutting for Charles to know he could still be leading the championship but for those.

Jeff Navarro wrote:Barring another implosion, Hungary should be a Ferrari 1-2. Red Bull can’t use the low downforce setup on that track.

Got my fingers crossed - as much for a decent title battle this season as anything. But given Ferrari's performances so far this season, you can't rule anything out.

GSC wrote:
George started the season by largely being staying out of trouble and SCs etc falling into place for him. Recently it's been a bit more erratic, and a bit of a guy who's been benchmarked against Latifi now going against Hamilton

Well that goes with the pressure of going from a team running at the back (by some margin), to one expected to compete for silverware. That does have a psychological effect. He's a young driver and not used to running at the front. Despite that he's done very well, going head to head with Lewis, scoring 144 points to Hamilton's 127.

Saying that, Lewis seemed to have rediscovered his mojo lately, so that situation could change. In any case this is Russell's first full season at Merc. Lets see where he is at the end of the season.

Jeff Navarro wrote:
Russell is basically a Jenson Button level driver. If he gets lucky he might sneak at championship.
Norris for my money is a level above Russell - both are a level below LeClerc. Verstappen is obviously leader of the pack.
I can see Norris being good enough to win a championship against Verstappen and LeClerc. I don’t see Russell beating Verstappen on pure ability.

You're having a laugh!

Button was actually a pretty decent driver if you recall.

I would say Russell is a better driver than Norris. He's able to get more out of a car that is moderately competitive at best and is far more consistent with his results.

Given equal cars I would bank on both beating Verstappen as they can actually race wheel to wheel. Not as well as guys like Hamilton and Alonso of course, but I reckon they have better racecraft (that goes beyond Max's "give way or get off the track" default approach).

Jeff Navarro wrote:
Walls are closing in on LeClerc…Maranello starting to question whether that 5 year deal was merited…
Ferrari would willing swap LeClerc for Hamilton is what I’ve heard…
LeClerc’s future is intertwined with Binotto, should they team boss get axed - LeClerc’s position could be vulnerable.

Now I know you're on the wind-up!

As I said in response to GSC, Ferrari need to have a long, hard look at themselves in the mirror before they start questioning their drivers.

Hamilton wouldn't win them titles if his car keeps breaking down, or they keep messing up his race strategy. Plus he's not a long-term solution...has 2-3 years left in him at most.

I could understand Leclerc leaving if they change team boss again...but thats typical Ferrari - throw the baby out with the bath water.

That said, Ferrari have this strange mystique among race drivers. If he gets too disillusioned with Mercedes, I could see him joining Ferrari (for the right offer, of course) to wind up his career - just so he can say he drove for them. Can never rule anything out in F1, but would he want to end up like Alonso or Vettel?

Mebbe. He would've rejoined behind Max on Sunday and overtaking was pretty tough. He wasn't going to beat Max at Baku

George is testing the limits of "being able to race wheel to wheel"

Tends to be a label tagged on drivers who win without needing to anyway

dyrewolfe wrote:

Jeff Navarro wrote:Barring another implosion, Hungary should be a Ferrari 1-2. Red Bull can’t use the low downforce setup on that track.

Got my fingers crossed - as much for a decent title battle this season as anything. But given Ferrari's performances so far this season, you can't rule anything out.

GSC wrote:
George started the season by largely being staying out of trouble and SCs etc falling into place for him. Recently it's been a bit more erratic, and a bit of a guy who's been benchmarked against Latifi now going against Hamilton

Well that goes with the pressure of going from a team running at the back (by some margin), to one expected to compete for silverware. That does have a psychological effect. He's a young driver and not used to running at the front. Despite that he's done very well, going head to head with Lewis, scoring 144 points to Hamilton's 127.

Saying that, Lewis seemed to have rediscovered his mojo lately, so that situation could change. In any case this is Russell's first full season at Merc. Lets see where he is at the end of the season.

Jeff Navarro wrote:
Russell is basically a Jenson Button level driver. If he gets lucky he might sneak at championship.
Norris for my money is a level above Russell - both are a level below LeClerc. Verstappen is obviously leader of the pack.
I can see Norris being good enough to win a championship against Verstappen and LeClerc. I don’t see Russell beating Verstappen on pure ability.

You're having a laugh!

Button was actually a pretty decent driver if you recall.

I would say Russell is a better driver than Norris. He's able to get more out of a car that is moderately competitive at best and is far more consistent with his results.

Given equal cars I would bank on both beating Verstappen as they can actually race wheel to wheel. Not as well as guys like Hamilton and Alonso of course, but I reckon they have better racecraft (that goes beyond Max's "give way or get off the track" default approach).

Jeff Navarro wrote:
Walls are closing in on LeClerc…Maranello starting to question whether that 5 year deal was merited…
Ferrari would willing swap LeClerc for Hamilton is what I’ve heard…
LeClerc’s future is intertwined with Binotto, should they team boss get axed - LeClerc’s position could be vulnerable.

Now I know you're on the wind-up!

As I said in response to GSC, Ferrari need to have a long, hard look at themselves in the mirror before they start questioning their drivers.

Hamilton wouldn't win them titles if his car keeps breaking down, or they keep messing up his race strategy. Plus he's not a long-term solution...has 2-3 years left in him at most.

I could understand Leclerc leaving if they change team boss again...but thats typical Ferrari - throw the baby out with the bath water.

That said, Ferrari have this strange mystique among race drivers. If he gets too disillusioned with Mercedes, I could see him joining Ferrari (for the right offer, of course) to wind up his career - just so he can say he drove for them. Can never rule anything out in F1, but would he want to end up like Alonso or Vettel?

Look back at the history of Ferrari:
Alain Prost, then triple WDC - sacked
Kimi Raikkonen, Ferrari’s last WDC, was sacked for Fernando Alonso in 2010
Sebastian Vettel, quadruple WDC, was sacked after Matteo Binotto decided the German wasn’t worth the hassle anymore.

At Ferrari contracts are a somewhat fluid situation regardless of whatever is written on paper.
Charles LeClerc isn’t even WDC yet so Ferrari cutting him and Binotto loose wouldn’t be all the surprising to us Italians….

Just for further reference:
Alonso was a Luca di Montezemolo signing. Once di Montezemolo was ousted, Alonso’s time was done at Ferrari.

Vettel was a Stefano Domenicali signing. Domenicali left before Vettel started work at Maranello. It was a relevant miracle that Vettel lasted so long after Domenicali left.

Now it’s Binotto and LeClerc…blow too many more opportunities and neither will be at Maranello much longer.

And lastly, give over, Jenson Button was a midfield nobody. God shined on him in 2009. He’s arguably the most irrelevant WDC of the modern era.

Think Rosberg probably has him beaten there

GSC wrote:Think Rosberg probably has him beaten there

Rosberg will always be somewhat remembered as quiz question if nothing else:
Whom was the driver to win a WDC in the Hamilton dominated era?
Or
Which driver stopped Lewis Hamilton winning 7 straight WDCs?

Rosberg also never defended his title, nor has an iconic drive like Canada 2011 to fall back on. He won a title because in a 2 driver championship, the other car blew up frequently

2016 Hamilton had one mechanical DNF - he also took out Rosberg in Barcelona. So it’s equaled out.

2011 Canada ultimate fluke. Pretty much the story of Button’s career. Button wiped out Hamilton and Alonso in Montreal 2011.

News on the Red Bull-Porsche link up.
Announcement due on August 4.
Porsche will sign 10 year agreement with Red Bull.
Porsche will buy 50% of Red Bull Racing and Red Bull Power Units.

AlphaTauri will use these Porsche engines but the team will remain 100% in Red Bull control. Should Honda wish to buy out AlphaTauri as their works team - Red Bull would listen to their offer. No other parties offers will be considered.

Seemingly looking like changeable conditions in qualifying according to the forecast.
Exactly what Ferrari doesn’t want!

Sebastian Vettel announces retirement from Formula 1 at the end of 2022. F1’s youngest WDC, 2x WDC, 3x WDC and 4x WDC. Legacy was secure a long time ago.

Think Seb tried a bit too hard to be "baby schumi" in his early years. Mellowed out a lot since then. Could've had more titles with a more competent team around him but retires as a great regardless

In an alternate universe, Vettel could’ve won the WDC in 2017 or 2018 and from what I’ve heard over the years - he would’ve retired. He never had any interest in chasing Michael. Vettel was somewhat ‘obsessed’ with getting that 5th championship.

Jeff Navarro wrote:Sebastian Vettel announces retirement from Formula 1 at the end of 2022

Bit of a win for the dumb casual fans (who've had this pencilled in since the start of the season) over the clued-up insiders (who seem stunned) there.

A shame to see him retire - but understandable with his other interests, and not being able to secure a top seat.

Who do we think Aston will target to replace him? I sense they quite like having a "big name" alongside Stroll Jr...could they maybe come to some gentlemans agreement for Danny Ric with McLaren (which may suit them also)? Or do we think Merc might try impose De Vries on them?

Seems like Aston Martin are targeting Fernando Alonso or Mick Schumacher.
Alonso is a free agent at the end of the season and would open the door for Oscar Piastri to partner Esteban Ocon. Would be a typical Alonso move to join Aston Martin…
Ferrari aren’t prepared to let Schumacher go and Schumacher’s long term ambition is to emulate his father at Ferrari.

Five drivers have said they wouldn’t consider Aston Martin if approached:
Daniel Ricciardo
Alex Albon - still a Red Bull driver
Valtteri Bottas
Esteban Ocon - Mercedes still has an option on him.
Kevin Magnussen

No one seems to be talking about Gasly who is not having a particularly great season but this seems to be due to AlphaTauri not producing a particularly good car. Bottas has had a relatively poor last few races but before then was regularly finishing in the points - he has 37 points while his team mate Zhou has 5 points.

With regard to Vettel we know how brilliant he was from the get go when joining F1 (2007 to 2013) but in seasons 2014, 2019 and 2020 he finished behind his team-mates.

In 2014 he finished well behind Ricciardo; Ricciardo's first year at Red Bull and Vettel the current four times world champion. That year there had been major changes with the regulations that changed the pecking order in favour of Mercedes over the Red Bull and some suggested that Vettel had at some point during that season checked out and was thinking of a future with Ferrari. Ricciardo had 8 podiums with three wins, while Vettel had 4 podiums with no wins.

Then in 2019, after finishing runner up for Ferrari in consecutive seasons in the drivers championship, he was beaten by Leclerc, not by a large margin, but it was Leclerc's first season with Ferrari. Then in 2020 he was well beaten by Leclerc and during that season Ferrari announced that Vettel would be moving on.

When talking about the "negatives" in Vettels career those three seasons form important areas for discussion.

Vettel had a clause in his Red Bull contract, and Ferrari contract, that should he not finish in the top 3 of the WDC - he could leave for free.

Vettel joined Ferrari in 2015 on free. There’s been some speculation over the years that Ferrari ‘encouraged’ Vettel to “tank” in 2014.

Obviously no one will confirm this as it’s massive against the rules. But getting Vettel for free saved Maranello around $60m to buy out his deal from Red Bull - whom where pretty livid at how Vettel’s exit happened.

Riccardo certainly got more out of the car but Vettel didn’t try seem at his best either.

When LeClerc joined Ferrari, Vettel knew the game was up. LeClerc the Prince in waiting. Ferrari junior. 2019 was close but over the season the car went away from Vettel.

2020 is somewhat irrelevant. Vettel was contemplating retirement during the covid delay. What I’ve heard was Vettel was to leave but after Binotto played him to reduce his salary by 50% then effectively sack him. Vettel stayed on just to get the $15m pay cheque.

It’s worth noting Vettel lost something from those two misses championship opportunities in 2017-2018. The aura diminished.

2021 and 2022, Vettel essentially doing Stroll Sr a favour to get Aston Martin a leg up - much like Schumacher said did with Mercedes in 2010-12. Someone else should benefit from Vettel’s ‘sacrifice’ down the line.

Ricciardo then lost to Kvyat the following year to show how much that really matters

So the Haas upgrades…it’s a white Ferrari LOL

Sky F1 uk ‘pundit’ Johnny Herbert crying that Verstappen sees LeClerc as a ‘friend’. But the Dutchman isn’t ‘friendly’ with Hamilton.
The amount of money Sky charges they really need to get semi competent pundits.
David Croft
Johnny Herbert
Paul di Resta
Craig Slater
Literally garbage

Absolutely hammering it down in Budapest

Jeff Navarro wrote:So the Haas upgrades…it’s a white Ferrari LOL

Did like them asking if they were supposed to copy the Williams instead.

Herbert and Hill are beyond poor to be honest

Goatitfi top FP3 in changing conditions

Amateur hour continues with these hapless Race Directors. Perez has lap deleted for track limits. Lap is then reinstated as he never left the track.
Embarrassing

Perez out in Q2 - compromised by the poor decision by race control

George Russell pole
Carlos Sainz
Charles LeClerc
Lando Norris
Esteban Ocon
Fernando Alonso
Lewis Hamilton - DRS fault
Valterri Bottas
Daniel Ricciardo
Max Verstappen - ERS fault

Wow - well that was unexpected!

Congrats George Russell on his first ever pole. Mr Saturday is back! Lets hope he can be Mr Sunday too. Shame about Lewis having DRS issues and aborting his final lap - could have been up there with him.

George is going to have his work cut out for him with both Ferraris right behind him.

Norris doing a great job for McLaren with 4th and Alpine having a good day with 5th and 6th.

Absolute nightmare for Red Bull with Perez out in Q2 and Verstappen having power issues, unable to do a final lap. Should be interesting to see if they can make any progress from their 10th and 11th places.

Jeff Navarro wrote:Amateur hour continues with these hapless Race Directors. Perez has lap deleted for track limits. Lap is then reinstated as he never left the track.
Embarrassing

I think its stupid the way this rule is implemented anyway, allowing drivers to exceed track limits in some places but not others.

I agree with Brundle that the white line should be the track limit everywhere. Just install an F1 equivalent of the out-of-lane system they have on some road cars and use that to decide if a driver's lap time is deleted or not.

Still too much human error.

I think P3 is a decent start for LeClerc. The odd number grid slots are beneficial in Hungary.
Let’s hope Bottas plugs his brain in tomorrow otherwise we could end up with destruction derby 2.0...

Red Bull with a decent strategy can easily get 4-5 tomorrow. They are much faster than Alpine and McLaren.

Horner seems to suggest some sensors failed on Verstappen’s car. The reboot couldn’t be done until the car was hooked up to the computers again. So seems like the ERS will survive.

A bit of a head scratcher, with Norris' McLaren and the Alpines closing the single lap gap to the Ferrari's fairly dramatically and with Toto Wolff more or less accepting that they admit defeat for this year and will now focus on next years car, they get pole. My first thoughts is that the changeable conditions and the heavy rain greening the circuit caused tyre grip issues to play an important factor in qualifying. Also Verstappen was unable to get his car working properly for Q3. I am not sure if Perez was unlucky but it seems to me the promise he showed earlier on seems to have fallen away.

Add in that it might rain tomorrow and the race might be quite interesting...

Dr Marko says Red Bull will ‘most likely’ change the ERS - without penalty.
They need to ‘investigate’ the failure back at the factory. But they still feel the ERS 2 will return to the pool.

Red Bull have managed to nab another key Mercedes engineer to their RBPT department.
Phil Prew has joined them now. It’s getting crazy how Red Bull have pretty much cherrypicked Mercedes staff.

No name Bertie wrote:A bit of a head scratcher, with Norris' McLaren and the Alpines closing the single lap gap to the Ferrari's fairly dramatically and with Toto Wolff more or less accepting that they admit defeat for this year and will now focus on next years car, they get pole.  My first thoughts is that the changeable conditions and the heavy rain greening the circuit caused tyre grip issues to play an important factor in qualifying.  Also Verstappen was unable to get his car working properly for Q3.  I am not sure if Perez was unlucky but it seems to me     the promise he showed earlier on seems to have fallen away.

As Lando tried to explain afterwards, the best he and the team can figure is that their cars simply work better at some tracks than others. Thats always been a feature of F1. Doesn't mean they've made any performance gains. In fact Lando was at pains to say the car is exactly the same as it was in France. They obviously adjust the set-up a bit for optimal running at each circuit, but they've not brought any more upgrades.

Mercedes is another kettle of fish though. Russell's pole really was a bolt from the blue. Even more interesting when you consider they have usually been stronger in races than qualifying. Does this mean he has an actual chance of the win, or will the Ferraris be too strong, or out-strategise the Silver Arrows?

Jeff Navarro wrote:Red Bull have managed to nab another key Mercedes engineer to their RBPT department.
Phil Prew has joined them now. It’s getting crazy how Red Bull have pretty much cherrypicked Mercedes staff.

Thieving bar stewards!  

Trying to add Mercedes' reliability to their own powertrain's performance.

Jeff Navarro wrote:Dr Marko says Red Bull will ‘most likely’ change the ERS - without penalty.
They need to ‘investigate’ the failure back at the factory. But they still feel the ERS 2 will return to the pool.

Somewhat strangely, to me anyway, both Red Bull’s are taking PU3. Hungary isn’t exactly a power track and I thought they’d save the fresh one for Spa and Monza.

Pretty much guarantees Red Bull will take PU4 sometime later in the season, thus nullifying LeClerc next engine penalty.

Russell
Norris
Verstappen

Soft starters

All the other 10 top on mediums

LeClerc jumps Sainz
Verstappen and Perez up to 8th and 9th

Verstappen gets Alonso, a rare error from the Spaniard