SILLY SEASON TRANSFER RUMOURS 20/21

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GeordieFalcon wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:I think Schoeman has been injured for nearly all his time at Bath. Can play 10 and 15 though.

Chiefs look set to sign Leinster second row Dunne a 6ft8 122kg 21 year old for next season. Hasn't played this season yet due to an ankle injury. Replacement for one of the outgoing internationals it seems.

Just what we need!

At least your youngsters will get lots of game time.

I've seen comparisons to Jason Robinson but I'm not seeing it. Robinson was an absolute freak of nature in his ability to change direction.

Smart, rich clubs that want to abide by the cap will have done four things to keep a good squad while staying within the rules:

1) Signed up expensive players they want to keep to new contracts before the reduced cap was agreed. Existing contracts can run over the cap and several clubs announced signings of their biggest stars just before the new cap was locked down.

2) Make the most of the new Academy rules. Academy players can now be paid up to £50k, and I think the limit has shifted from a total cap to the number of players. That means that a player breaking into the first team can effectively stay on the Academy books while being paid something close to a full senior contract.

3) Been a little more ruthless about renewals. Clubs will have looked hard at older players and been more prepared to let well-paid players go or move them onto pay-per-play deals.

4) Negotiated new contracts with stepped salaries. If you're negotiating to get under the cap but know that it's going to rise next year, you can negotiate a 3 year contract with a player that says "we'll pay a lower salary in year 1 and then raise it in years 2 & 3".

It's clear that not all clubs have taken this approach, but Quins have managed to keep their squad pretty much intact and with some well-paid players locked in, so I think they've been using a lot of these. We're losing Tizard to Sarries, Jones to Glasgow, Lasike to the US and Gray and Symons are retiring with only Irne Herbst coming in to replace Tiz, so somehow they've managed renew 17 contracts and write one new one while staying under the cap.

Meh no better than Radwan

Poorfour wrote:Smart, rich clubs that want to abide by the cap will have done four things to keep a good squad while staying within the rules:

1) Signed up expensive players they want to keep to new contracts before the reduced cap was agreed. Existing contracts can run over the cap and several clubs announced signings of their biggest stars just before the new cap was locked down.

2) Make the most of the new Academy rules. Academy players can now be paid up to £50k, and I think the limit has shifted from a total cap to the number of players. That means that a player breaking into the first team can effectively stay on the Academy books while being paid something close to a full senior contract.

3) Been a little more ruthless about renewals. Clubs will have looked hard at older players and been more prepared to let well-paid players go or move them onto pay-per-play deals.

4) Negotiated new contracts with stepped salaries. If you're negotiating to get under the cap but know that it's going to rise next year, you can negotiate a 3 year contract with a player that says "we'll pay a lower salary in year 1 and then raise it in years 2 & 3".

It's clear that not all clubs have taken this approach, but Quins have managed to keep their squad pretty much intact and with some well-paid players locked in, so I think they've been using a lot of these. We're losing Tizard to Sarries, Jones to Glasgow, Lasike to the US and Gray and Symons are retiring with only Irne Herbst coming in to replace Tiz, so somehow they've managed renew 17 contracts and write one new one while staying under the cap.

The max wage a player under the academy cap can be paid is now £50k but the academy cap is only £100k. Home grown academy players (been a member of the club's academy since they were at least 17, been with the club 2 years, not been part of another clubs academy) are exempt for cap purposes I believe until their wage exceeds that threshold. So realistically the £100k academy cap is just there to cover players 24-years-old or younger, usually on their first pro deals, who didn't come through the academy and who usually play in the PRC. Almost there for late bloomers or guys who fell through the cracks elsewhere. Signings such as Agbongbon and Lancaster at Tigers this season.

Wages are averaged over a contract to avoid 4 aren't they?

Saints shedding another 9 players at the end of the season:

Marshall
Auterak
Tonks
Tipai
Carey
Garside
Gillespie
Newman
O'Neil

That is on top of:

Francis
Harrison
Naiyaravoro
Ratuniyarawa

That is leaving a lot of space in the budget.

Ospreys (his home Region) need to be looking at Regan Grace. They have such poor back-3 options in Luke Morgan, Cai Evans, and Mat Protheroe. Keelan Giles also can't defend.

king_carlos wrote:
The max wage a player under the academy cap can be paid is now £50k but the academy cap is only £100k. Home grown academy players (been a member of the club's academy since they were at least 17, been with the club 2 years, not been part of another clubs academy) are exempt for cap purposes I believe until their wage exceeds that threshold. So realistically the £100k academy cap is just there to cover players 24-years-old or younger, usually on their first pro deals, who didn't come through the academy and who usually play in the PRC. Almost there for late bloomers or guys who fell through the cracks elsewhere. Signings such as Agbongbon and Lancaster at Tigers this season.

Wages are averaged over a contract to avoid 4 aren't they?

Just checked. The key point about the Academy cap is that for players who've been in the Academy long enough to qualify as home grown, the cap is effectively an individual one because they don't count. You could have 20 Academy players on £50k and as long as they met the Home Grown Academy Player criteria above, none of it counts for the cap. Very nice for teams with strong academies.

The only references to averaging salaries are for the Excluded (i.e. Marquee) player rules, where a player is a marquee player for only part of their time at a club, their salary is averaged across the whole period so the club can't artificially hike it during the time they're a marquee player.

Grace is a special rugby league player, great to watch (even if I dislike Saints). He is absolutely rapid and he's got a poacher's nose for the tryline, got a real knack for scoring tries. Mind you, he is playing in a pretty dominant team. Would it be a case of him 'converting' to play Union? He grew up in South Wales, surely he will have played the game at some point?

Grace is also EQ through his father, according to the article. Premiership clubs said to be monitoring him, but could just be whispers.

BBC maintaining their quality coverage of rugby - apparently Sean Maitland has extended his contract at Irish

Cumbrian wrote:Grace is a  special rugby league player, great to watch (even if I dislike Saints).  He is absolutely rapid and he's got a poacher's nose for the tryline, got a real knack for scoring tries. Mind you, he is playing in a pretty dominant team.  Would it be a case of him 'converting' to play Union?  He grew up in South Wales, surely he will have played the game at some point?

.

What is wrong with Saints. Saints are second only to God, the Bible says so, so it must be true.


.... Oh, and Tigers, Sarries and Quins, but we are working on it.

Sorry if I missed this being posted. Simon Hammersley to retire from rugby (at the age of 28) at end of season

lostinwales wrote:Sorry if I missed this being posted. Simon Hammersley to retire from rugby (at the age of 28) at end of season

Rumour mill says Mike Brown on a one year contract to take his place.

mikey_dragon wrote:Ospreys (his home Region) need to be looking at Regan Grace. They have such poor back-3 options in Luke Morgan, Cai Evans, and Mat Protheroe. Keelan Giles also can't defend.

I recall a certain poster spending endless amounts of time crying about Protheroe playing in England. Assumed he must be God’s gift to the game given how unfair it was to Wales!

Yeah Hammersley is running a business I believe.

Brown to Sale looks legitimate...thought he had signed for Ealing

GeordieFalcon wrote:Yeah Hammersley is running a business I believe.  

Brown to Sale looks legitimate...thought he had signed for  Ealing

A lot of players that sign for Championship Clubs have a get out clause whereby if a Prem Club comes in then they are allowed to leave immediately.

I played against Hammersley at school level. Obviously an absolute cut above there and playing fly-half at that stage.

A really reliable Premiership player. Since making his Prem debut he's averaged basically 15 Prem games a season with European and AWC/PRC on top of that. The sort of player all squads need. Hopefully he does well in his next venture.

Actually when Hammersley was coming through with us, he was excellent and we didn't take advantage of his running lines.

He regularly made clear breaks that ended up with nothing as there was simply noone following his runs to take the offload when he was tackled...criminal really. But standard falcons rubbish. Someone with the intelligent support game of say Chris Ashton would have scored a bucket full off Hammersley.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-10864029/SPECIAL-REPORT-Premiership-Rugbys-jobs-crisis-record-numbers-players-set-work.html

Not a fan of the paper but it is an interesting article.

Toomaga-Allen to Ulster on a one year contract

Northampton Saints legend Tom Wood will hang up his boots at the end of the 2021/22 season after an incredible 12 seasons at cinch Stadium at Franklin’s Gardens.

The 35-year-old flanker made 240 appearances in Black, Green and Gold, scoring 22 tries along the way, but will retire from professional rugby next month.

Since making his Club debut back in 2010, Coventry-born Wood has written himself into Northampton folklore and joined Saints’ revered ‘200 club’ back in 2019.

In a career laden with silverware, the athletic and abrasive back row forward claimed Gallagher Premiership (2014), European Challenge Cup (2014), Premiership Rugby Cup (2019), and Premiership Player of the Season (2011) titles during his tenure at the Club, as well as helping Saints reach the Heineken Cup final in 2011.

Alan Dell. Released by London Irish, supposedly heading to Glasgow.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Northampton Saints legend Tom Wood will hang up his boots at the end of the 2021/22 season after an incredible 12 seasons at cinch Stadium at Franklin’s Gardens.

The 35-year-old flanker made 240 appearances in Black, Green and Gold, scoring 22 tries along the way, but will retire from professional rugby next month.

Since making his Club debut back in 2010, Coventry-born Wood has written himself into Northampton folklore and joined Saints’ revered ‘200 club’ back in 2019.

In a career laden with silverware, the athletic and abrasive back row forward claimed Gallagher Premiership (2014), European Challenge Cup (2014), Premiership Rugby Cup (2019), and Premiership Player of the Season (2011) titles during his tenure at the Club, as well as helping Saints reach the Heineken Cup final in 2011.

That's a very impressive career, especially considering he's been managing a chronic foot problem since 2011 or 2012.

Very good player. Like you say, could have been even better.

LI leavers announced. No one hugely surprising, other than perhaps van de Merwe. We've probably been luckier than a few clubs with the salary cap reduction coinciding with the end of some fairly large contracts. Especially with guys like Dell, SOB and Mafi who weren't really ever present in the team for various reasons. Couple of the academy leavers were injury retirements (Smerdon/Davis), which is never great too see so early.

Senior players:
Albert Tuisue, Nick Phipps, George Nott, Terrence Hepetema, Steve Mafi, Allan Dell, Seán O’Brien, Marcel van der Merwe, Phil Cokanasiga, Rory Brand, Cillian Redmond.

Injury dispensation cover:
Olly Cracknell, Noel Reid, Jamie Dever, Tadgh McElroy and Alandré van Rooyen.

Academy
Theo Smerdon, Marcus Rhodes, Rory Morgan, and George Davis.

LI haven't announced any signings yet have they? Could be some interesting announcements coming up this week as they have a bye week so their marketing team might have some time to fill.

formerly known as Sam wrote:LI haven't announced any signings yet have they? Could be some interesting announcements coming up this week as they have a bye week so their marketing team might have some time to fill.

Yeah, you'd expect further re-signing and signing announcements in the next week or two. Giosuè Zilocchi (TH) the only signing confirmed so far, as he actually joined a month or two early (albeit didn't play). Following players all rumoured fairly heavily at some point off the top of my head:

So'otala Fa'aso'o (8)
Danilo Fischetti (LH - pretty much confirmed by Crowley)
Josh Caulfield (Lock)
Josh Basham (Flanker)
Api Ratuniyarawa (Lock)
Ed Scragg (Lock)

Well those signings will certainly add some weight to the LI pack.

I think Basham is a dead cert....Good signing...just coming good...

We've just announced Rob Farrar and Montgomery to Ealing.

We're waiting for two new signings...one expected to be Josh Barton the Coventry 9 and the other is unknown.

Still waiting for announcements on Kyle Cooper, Fuser and Joel Hodgson...

Was a bit confused when I initially heard Basham mentioned a few months ago. Not because I didn't rate him, but more because he didn't seem to have a huge point of difference from a few other back rowers in the squad.

He's kicked on lately though, so will be a decent addition if confirmed.

Any rumours on Cooper, Fuser and Hodgson?

Yeah Basham is 6'4 and a good young player. One thing we do very well is back rowers...and he's come through the training....

Nah absolutely nothing about those 3 or who the other incoming signing is...

I think Cooper to Wuss has been banded about and Fuser to France?

Yeah heard the cooper to Wuss one but not seen anything since.

Havent heard anything about Fuser at all.

Lots of Falcons chewing their chops about Farrar and Montgommery leaving...very unhappy...especially with De Chaves coming in.

Meh...not fussed. None of them will challeng the starting lineups and we have another young lock coming through in Coulston whos already 6'6 and a big lump

Well Basham confirmed as out of contract and not renewed so Where's he off. Irish? Have they confirmed yet?

So Josh Barton the Coventry 9 is confirmed...

GeordieFalcon wrote:So Josh Barton the Coventry 9 is confirmed...

You getting a drip feed of new signing announcements this week GF or is it ad-hoc?

GeordieFalcon wrote:Well Basham confirmed as out of contract and not renewed so Where's he off. Irish? Have they confirmed yet?

Guess we'll find out when LI actually start announcing signings.

Kidney likes to get the rugby out of the way, have a few weeks off, do a bit of DIY round the house and write a few chapters of his memoir before actually announcing any business.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:So Josh Barton the Coventry 9 is confirmed...

You getting a drip feed of new signing announcements this week GF or is it ad-hoc?

We are waiting for one more signing to be announced and thats its Sam.

Josh Barton - Scrum Half
Josh Thomas - Fly Half
Tian Schoeman - Fly Half
Josh Peters - Lock
Seb De Chaves - Lock

Looks like we've signed some half backs who are more creative and looking to get the ball to our wingers.

We have promoted a ton of academy lads in to the set up aswell....some VERY good ones.

The key thing still to be announced is the new coaching set up.

We know the following:
DOR: Dave Walder
Head Coach: Unknown
Scrum / Forwards Coach: Micky Ward
Lineout / Forwards Coach: Scott Macleod
Attack Coach: Was Dave Walder...is it still?
Defence Coach: Unknown - Rumoured to be Mark Wilson coming back
S&C - Tim Payne
Skills Coach: Mark Laycock

Are we getting a new Head coach or is Walder that and DOR? Is he also attack coach. It sounds like he is from what hes been saying.  

Theres also alot of rumbles from the fans about the Strength and Conditioning programme, many of the fans saying we look unfit...so will that be addressed?

Any guess on the last addition, backrow perhaps? There's quite a few ex Prem players without contracts currently so Falcons should be able to acquire a good option in whichever position they wish albeit maybe not a superstar.

The coaching set up looks pretty ingrained within the Falcons philosophy, an outside influence would probably be a good thing. No idea who's about and available though. Given the pitch Falcons have someone with a coaching background of improving core skills to facilitate an all year running attack maybe. The pitch will remain firm but the elements in mid winter certainly won't be dry.

Well the players team is still going for another 3 weeks apparently....so i'm not sure which leagues are still going, Prem, Celtic...any others?

Defo dont need any front 5 or back row.  

I would love it to be a proper bruising 12...we have some great young backs, but they're all very lightweight and fast...we are screaming for a heavy duty bit of muscle and power in there to give some real direction.  Burrell was just too injury prone.

Yeah i keep going on, but i do actually think our squad is ok...its how we have them playing which is prehistoric. Slow, ponderous, unimaginative. We play a kick chase game, yet we have no chasers!!? Its all just wrong. it needs radically overhauled.

And hopefully with Easter away even if hes completely inexperienced, Mark Wilson might instill a bit of steel and aggression in defence.

Looks like the LI signings are going to start dripping through. Danilo Fischetti announced. Looked great in the 6N, this year, so interesting to see if he brings that form into next season.

Him, Goodrick-Clark and Gigena will be a pretty solid set of looseheads.

Paul Tait, rugby journalist in South America, is reporting the Moroni to Falcons rumour now. Tait is usually bang on with the Argentina player news. Fantastic signing for Falcons and a loss for Tigers if so.

Moroni, Orlando, Stevenson and Wacokecoke is a really decent set of centres.

king_carlos wrote:Paul Tait, rugby journalist in South America, is reporting the Moroni to Falcons rumour now. Tait is usually bang on with the Argentina player news. Fantastic signing for Falcons and a loss for Tigers if so.

Moroni, Orlando, Stevenson and Wacokecoke is a really decent set of centres.

Bit light on inside centres but it is a good deal to get Moroni in, he's a class act. The Falcons fans are going to love him. If have liked to keep him at Tigers but I guess we just can't make it work with the salary cap.

If he is a defensive leader, and generally strong alround centre then a great signing.

We definately could do with a 12...Wakecoke doesnt seem fancied for the role and Orlando...ah hes really a 13 aswell who can cover at 12.
Im actually a big fan of Lucock. If hes told to do a strict role of hard carrying and hard tackling. Ive seen him play a couple of absolute blinders when he sticks to that role.

We have a couple of cracking 12s in the academy, but too soon for them...they may get a few runs out in the cup games.

I have a suspicion Schoeman may be asked to play 12 quite a bit and at the same time mentor Louie Johnson and Josh Thomas our young 10s.

Looking good though...finally have creative half backs, looking to address the glaring midfield gaps we've had and finally feed our electric wings properly.

Chiefs have signed Ruben van Heerden to go with Aidon Davis and Jack Dunne in their squad rebuild. He's a big second row former Bok under 20s, Davis a backrow and also former Bok under 20s. Dunne is a bigger second row, London born Irishman from Leinster. The rebuild there is underway.

Decent signing, hope Jenkins can learn a bit from him.

RugbyPass published a list of all the Premiership ins and Outs yesterday. There are a couple of gaps and misreports but it's a pretty good list.

The stats make interesting reading. The average total "turnover" is around 20 players per team, with 13 leaving and 6 coming in.

The lowest turnover is Saracens (8 - 4 in / 4 out) followed by Gloucester (2 in / 8 out) and Quins (6 in / 5 out). Quins and Falcons are the only teams to increase squad size (by one apiece), with Sarries holding steady. (Which in turn means that squad sizes in the rest of the teams are going down by 8 players on average).

As you might expect, there's a good number of older players being released, and a lot of solid squad players moving between peers or to other leagues. A lot of the new players are Academy promotions or in a couple of cases (Bristol especially) recruits from the university circuit - which given the impact that Dombrandt and Northmore have had at Quins could be a canny piece of business.

It's hard to say how things will play out with the level of disruption to most squads, but I'm inclined to think that it will favour those with more stability, at least at the start of the season.

Tigers still haven't announced their leavers yet. Still a bit guess work in that department for us.

Given the cap movement downwards it's unlikely that the big names will take a pay cut so the squad players will suffer. They will in the most part filter down to lower leagues here or in France. Could force a lot more youngsters to take the BUCS track with less contracts on offer.

Quins benefited from Northmore and Dombrandt.
LI from Pearson.
Tigers from Kelly (not including the others we've had on loan there or Agbongbon who's in the development squad)
Wasps got Flament briefly before Toulouse

I think there's definitely talent at BUCS level and possibly more going to be there going forward.

At least thats one thing we're ahead of everyone...having to work on a small budget.

We have released a load, and only brought in 5 actual signings...the rest are academy.

As up to date lists go with confirmed moves, this tends to be a better bet usually. Fair few mistakes and unconfirmed signings listed on Rugbypass (at least from a LI point of view)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_2022%E2%80%9323_Premiership_Rugby_transfers