Glasgow and Edinburgh 28 and Counting - The banter goes on!

28 and counting, where do we get the energy!

Another Glasgow re-signing coming up this afternoon, following on from the White Rhino, the animal theme is hinted at again. Who could that be?

Ancient history:

https://www.606v2.com/t70348p1000-glasgow-and-edinburgh-unceasing-banter-thread-27#4033843

And it's Jamie Bhatti. The wombat apparently!

He has played well this season, right back on form, prior to his injury and in Scotland's plans. Let's hope he has a good run in to the end of the season now,

Thanks Biggee - can always rely on you.

Need the other reprobates to pull the finger out!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Si-lDliHZJk

Are we in the mood for a Rob Harley tribute reel?

Of course we are!

Sad news that Tom Smith has just passed. He was only 50. Another great player taken too young!

Sad news that Tom Smith has just passed. He was only 50. Another great player taken too young!

In an awful world at the moment, full of bad news, that seems right up there.

Grade 4 bowel cancer never really goes well, but he had fought lo g and hard and hope remained.

RIP Tom

A great Scottish and B&I Lions player. A quiet unassuming man who will be well remembered and missed.

Sad news indeed. Like many others, the ‘97 Lions tour got me hooked into all things Lions and touring rugby. I was mesmerised watching it (mainly the behind the scenes stuff). And he was front and centre of the series and, although a quiet chap, stood out for me on that tour. That tour for me epitomised the camaraderie in rugby, and the odd but awesome thing the Lions is when it brings together players from different nations who are traditionally rivals. He’s been a legend to me ever since. RIP.

Nice tribute to Tom from Mark Palmer in the Times





Tributes have been paid to Tom Smith, the legendary Scotland and British & Irish Lions prop, who died today aged 50.

The former loosehead, who was capped 61 times by his country and started six consecutive Lions Tests on the 1997 and 2001 tours, announced in late 2019 that he has been diagnosed with stage 4 colorectal cancer and subsequently underwent multiple rounds of chemotherapy.

A key member of the Scotland side that won the last-ever Five Nations Championship in 1999, Smith was the epitome of the modern front-row forward, equally adept in both the tight and loose.

He famously defied his diminutive stature to star for the Lions against the much-vaunted World Champion Springbok pack in 1997 as the tourists claimed an epic series win.

Educated at Rannoch School in Perth and Kinross, Smith emerged at Dundee High and Watsonians before representing Caledonia Reds and Glasgow when the game went professional. He then had successful stints in France and England with Brive and Northampton respectively, representing the Saints for almost a decade until the end of his playing days in 2009.

He then moved into coaching, covering the role of forwards coach at first Edinburgh then Lyons. He was still living in the Lot-et-Garonne region of southern France with his wife Zoe and their three children Amelie, Angus and Teddy.

Smith first felt unwell when travelling home from Scotland’s World Cup warm-up match against France at Murrayfield in August 2019. After he presented with severe pain at the back of his ribs, his GP referred him to a specialist, who discovered a 90 per cent blockage of his colon, inflamed lymph nodes and lesions on his brain.

Smith bore the diagnosis and subsequent brutal treatment with customary grace and good humour.

“You quickly learn how much of a waiting game it is,” he told The Sunday Times in an interview in June 2020. “You have to look at it as people look at arthritis, rather than thinking you’re going to get cured. It’s something that is going to take management over a longer period of time. You’ve got to adjust your mindset and not be going into every blood test thinking, ‘is it gone? Is it over? Am I cured?’ Hopefully then you get a pleasant surprise.

“Initially, the target is just being able to function, just to still be there, and then it’s about getting through the first chemo as you deal with things like getting a will drawn up and making sure you don’t leave a massive mess behind you. With my first chemo, I was in bed for ten days afterwards, then four days later I was back in for the second round. That bit has got better too.”

Smith was immensely popular with those he played with and against, a fact underlined by the volume and variety of individuals and organisations lining up to salute him today.

In a statement, the Scottish Rugby Union said: “A hugely respected player, Tom will be greatly missed by everyone associated with rugby in Scotland and throughout the game. All our thoughts are with Tom’s family and friends at this time.”

In their own statement, the Lions said: “We are deeply saddened to learn of the passing of Tom Smith. Tom made an incredible impact for the Lions, touring in 1997 as well as 2001 and was one of the great props to play the game. Our thoughts are with his family and friends during this difficult time. RIP Tom”


Northampton Saints tweeted: “Deeply sad news this evening as we hear that Tom Smith has passed away. The British & Irish Lion was one of the most gifted props ever to pull on the BG&G jersey, and an incredible character to boot.”

Al Kellock, the former Glasgow and Scotland captain who is now the Warriors’ managing director, said: “The toughest of men on and off the park. Rest easy Tom, all our thoughts to his family.”

Ireland legend Ronan O’Gara said: “Rest In Peace Tom Smith. Enjoyed his company hugely on the 01 Tour. Thoughts with his kids and wife and friends and family.”

Sir Ian McGeechan, who coached Smith with both Scotland and the Lions, has described him as “the greatest Scot of the professional era to date”.

Smith was inducted into the Scottish Rugby Hall of Fame last November and presented the match ball to rapturous acclaim from the Murrayfield crowd on the day of Scotland’s Autumn Nations Series game against South Africa that same month.

He is sure to be honoured at Edinburgh’s Challenge Cup match against Pau at the DAM Health Stadium on Friday.

I had the pleasure of working with him during his time at the capital club, whose communications department I headed up in those days.


Smith was an understated yet huge presence around the place, a man who wore his many achievements lightly and who was great and funny company on away trips.

His passion for the nuts and bolts of front-row play remained undimmed, and though there was no doubting the thrill that young players experienced at working with one of their heroes, he never got stuck in any “back in my day” style of coaching. As was always his outlook as a player, Smith was only ever interested in looking forward, both creating and reacting to new trends.

Edinburgh owe him a huge amount for having been the coach who drove through the signing of Hamish Watson from the Leicester Tigers academy when others in the management group argued vehemently that he was too small to ever make it as a modern-day openside flanker. Smith was the very embodiment of the rank stupidity of such assumptions.

His passing — so impossibly cruel — will leave the biggest hole at the centre of his lovely young family. But Smith will always have his place in the very top tier of the best players, and most impressive men, ever to represent this country. We can only hope that, in time, that is some small consolation.

Very sad news indeed. I am in the same position as Oracle, in regards to how my memories started of him and how I also became a big fan of his.

That's a nice piece written in tribute.

Totally gutted for Tom and his family. I think it's his quiet, unassuming nature that made him so special. You also couldn't find a single former or coach who could say anything bad about him.

A genuine legend of the game gone too soon.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/61018335

Another wordsmith, Tom English, doing him proud.

I don't recall another player passing away where so many legends were lining up to talk about how amazing he was. O'Driscoll, Johnno, Wood, Hastings, Geech, Telfer, Woodward - all of them talk about how amazing his hands were and what an all round game he had for a prop - practically unprecedented to have that skillset.

I always admire the quiet men more than the Ryan Wilsons blaggarts, willy wavers or social media slappers. 

That's the sort of man you can aspire to be.

With Jim's sense of humour bolted on, obviously.

Edinburgh side for tomorrow's clash with Pau

Schoeman - McInally - De Bruin (Venter - McBurney - Nel)
Gilchrist - Sykes (Hodgson)
Young - Bradbury - Boyle (Phillips)

Prygos - VDW (Shiel - Savala)
Hutchison - Currie (Dean)
Moyano - Immelman - Graham

Unavailable: Luke Crosbie, Sam Grahamslaw, Nick Haining, Damien Hoyland, James Johnstone, Viliame Mata, Ben Muncaster, Jamie Ritchie, Ben Toolis

Five locks in the 23. Strange when Watson, Kunavula, Van Niekirk and probably a couple of academy guys could have filled a bench spot.

Relatively experimental line-up but should be fine as far as front five go. The back-row is a mess if Boyle or Bradbury have to go off.

Edinburgh are pretty much through and if they were to stay the fifth seed, would be set to play Glasgow. In theory if they were to lose and drop to the 8th seed, they would get Cardiff but a win would likely get them either Bath or Northampton. Interesting to see whether Pau are up for it!

This should really be a pumping - Pau will care as much about this game as a Glaswegian being gifted a bar of soap.

George Carlin wrote:I don't recall another player passing away where so many legends were lining up to talk about how amazing he was. O'Driscoll, Johnno, Wood, Hastings, Geech, Telfer, Woodward - all of them talk about how amazing his hands were and what an all round game he had for a prop - practically unprecedented to have that skillset.

I always admire the quiet men more than the Ryan Wilsons blaggarts, willy wavers or social media slappers. 

That's the sort of man you can aspire to be.

With Jim's sense of humour bolted on, obviously.

Georgie
Agree with all of this post except the last line. I almost wept when I saw Tom Smith walk on to present the match ball at Murrayfield recently; such courage and obvious pride in and love for his family. There is nothing in the broken doll's house that is my being that would have improved that man.
William McIlvanney had it right when he said, in A Drunken Glaswegian Meets Frankenstien's Monster, "When you think about it, God's a big vandal so he is."

So Edinburgh get Bath at home and Glasgow travel to Newcastle for the last 16 games in the Challenge Cup.

Both are winnable fixtures for them, so you would expect them to go all in for them.

Got to think both Scots sides are favourites. There should be a fair chance of at least one making a semi-final. They are also not in the part of the draw with Toulon, Castres or Saracens

Newcastle should be a decent test though I am not sure how hard they will go for it. Glasgow will have had two weeks to get fit and should have way too much for them. A win should mean an away trip to Lyon which should be a tough ask.

Edinburgh at home should be able to put away a Bath side that is injured and trying to develop its youth. Probably means they will screw it up. If not, Edinburgh should be at home against the winner of Biarritz vs Wasps.

Don't know if it was picked up a few weeks ago but Adam Nicol is back from injury. Three hamstring tears and two surgeries in 11 months. Hopefully he can get a good go of it next season.

https://www.talkingrugbyunion.co.uk/adam-nicol-s-opens-up-on-injury-nightmare-it-feels-so-good-to-be-back-/33531.htm

Hazel Sapling wrote:Don't know if it was picked up a few weeks ago but Adam Nicol is back from injury. Three hamstring tears and two surgeries in 11 months. Hopefully he can get a good go of it next season.

https://www.talkingrugbyunion.co.uk/adam-nicol-s-opens-up-on-injury-nightmare-it-feels-so-good-to-be-back-/33531.htm

Yes, I noticed he was on the bench for Jersey this week when they played (and hammered) London Scottish. Hopefully he will get a decent run of games now.

Hogg seems to be playing well for the Chiefs, no?

Genuinely important to have a coach who believes in you and a happy club environment, doesn't it?

George Carlin wrote:Hogg seems to be playing well for the Chiefs, no?

Genuinely important to have a coach who believes in you and a happy club environment, doesn't it?

Works both ways though George, the players have to beleive in the coach as well and help make it a happy environment, especially the senior players.


Players are always more likely to be happier at their clubs, they are living in their own homes, with their families and it is easier to live their own lives away from the bubble.

That, i guess is one of the reasons international rugby is so intense. The players sacrifice a lot to do it, but a lot of reward can potentially come with it as well.

Thinking of Exeter, not heard anything about Jonny Gray in recent times. I did not see a new contract and he had a good game against Munster on the weekend. With the loss of Hill, Skinner and Lonsdale, he may be vital for them to build around next year even if he has seemed off for much of this season.

Robbie Smith is off to Northampton, who at 23 should get a bit of play without having to compete with Blamire and McGuigan at Newcastle.

George Turner signs on again at the Warriors. An important player to make his mark on the dotted line.

Undoubtably our best hooker now and would have commanded a decent wedge elsewhere and I would imagine some interest if he had put himself on the market.

Slowly and surely, most of our key players getting signed up for next season and beyond.

Nel got a 3 week ban, which suggests there was head contact somewhere.

Does rankle a bit given how much obvious stuff gets missed by the citing commissioner. This person must have been trawling through every contact!

Newcastle vs Glasgow. Not on TV

Kebble - Matthews - Berghan (Bhatti - Turner - Zander)
Cummings - R Gray (Harley)
Wilson - Darge - Gordon (Miller)

Price - Thompson (Kennedy - Weir)
Johnson - Tuipulotu
Steyn - McKay - Cancelliere (Smith)

Unavailable for selection: Jack Dempsey, Matt Fagerson, George Horne, Rufus Mclean

Newcastle
15 Tom Penny,
14 Adam Radwan,
13 George Wacokecoke,
12 Luther Burrell,
11 Ben Stevenson,
10 Brett Connon,
9 Louis Schreuder;

1 Adam Brocklebank,
2 George McGuigan,
3 Trevor Davison,
4 Greg Peterson,
5 Sean Robinson,
6 Josh Basham,
7 Will Welch (captain),
8 Freddie Lockwood.

Replacements: 16 Jamie Blamire, 17 Kyle Cooper, 18 Mark Tampin, 19 Will Montgomery, 20 Tom Marshall, 21 Cameron Nordli-Kelemeti, 22 Joel Hodgson, 23 Iwan Stephens.

Big call to have Darge at 8, very Eddie Jones. Gordon over Miller is probably fair as Gordon deserves his opportunities to start. Kennedy over Dobie is an odd one.

Great to see Smith back and there is plenty of impact to come off the bench. The front row in particular should offer plenty.

If the unavailable list can be believed, we are healthy entering the high stakes part of the season. I assume Dempsey and Horne are short term issues with Dempsey key for the SA tour with Matt Fagerson out. Fingers crossed we can stay fit.

Seriously though....Batman-Mullet-Darge there's more needle there than in a Weater Hailes junkie's squat.

Do we really think that Wildon will stay at 6 and Darge at 8?
I would have started them the other way round. Odd.
Maybe he is resting Dobie, Dempsey and Horne prior to SA?
I don't know what to make of the SA trip. It could either be a revelation or a disaster. Fingers crossed that it'll be the former.

They will surely mix and match

Wilson likely being the defensive 8 and Darge the offensive one.

Darge, despit not being huge, does carry very well and Newcastle don't look massively stacked in the bsck row.

Horses for courses, could well work fine this week, but the sooner Dempsey is back at 8 the better!

I think that you are dpot on there Gee.
I was just about to disagree, and say NO! Darge at 6 defensively and at 8 offensively.
Then I realised it was the same thing

Mercer on the bench for Montpellier, Dombrandt showing for Quinn’s that he’s no slouch at 8 either.

Meanwhile Scotland have all the might of a gentle fart playing at 8 for us whoever we choose.

Hopefully mercer uses the recent law change and comes to Scotland when he’s eligibility comes round again.

Huw Jones having a run of games at 15 again

tigertattie wrote:Mercer on the bench for Montpellier, Dombrandt showing for Quinn’s that he’s no slouch at 8 either.

Meanwhile Scotland have all the might of a gentle fart playing at 8 for us whoever we choose.

Hopefully mercer uses the recent law change and comes to Scotland when he’s eligibility comes round again.

We never really did establish whether Mercer is eligsble for Scotland or not.

He certainly did some of his schooling in Scotland and played schoolboy rugby but does that make him eligable now, being as he then moved away. He has no familly connections nor was he Scots born.

My gut feeling is that he is no longer eligible, though i would be very happy to be wrong on that one!

Dempsey surely a better bet to get signed up and we know he is definitely available from this autumn.

Muncaster looks like the young playersof promise as well and we may well see him your this summer.

Yeah I think it’s only applies to birth countries so mercer wouldn’t be able to come to Scotland now.

Shame as we really are short of a decent 8. Some youngsters show promise but we don’t need promise, we need now. Crikey even Maggie had promise and while he’s a better 8 than fagerson, he’s still not cut out for international matches.

Fantastic result for Edinburgh, beating Bath 41-19. Sounds like Kinghorn went well again from the text chat. Was anyone at the game to give us some thoughts?!

Good win for Edinburgh, sounds like Kinghorn had a good game!

That's a huge win. I know Bath haven't had a great season but are full of top class players.

https://twitter.com/EdinburghRugby/status/1515456576148099080?t=55Rzfxl5to3hzlXIyYtwYw&s=19

Tries here - some great involvements from Kinghorn

Peter Wright in the BBC text said Bath were 'terrified' of Kinghorn!

He certainly poses a threat this season that most teams won't come across elsewhere. He's probably the quickest 10 in the northern hemisphere (can only think of Barrett who is quicker in world rugby). Teams will eventually work out what to do with him but until then he can cause a lot of damage at club level. His long loopy passes do make me nervous though!

Tell you what, credit to Tim “the colossus” swinson for Continuing to rock up for sarries each week.

Glasgow will get home advantage against Edinburgh if both teams win their European quarter finals

Glasgow squad for the SA tour

LH: Kebble, Bhatti, McBeth
HK: Turner, Brown, Matthews
TH: Zander, Berghan, Walker
LK: Gray, McDonald, Harley, Williamson
BR: Dempsey, Wilson, Darge, Gordon, Miller

SH: Price, Dobie, Kennedy
FH: Thompson, Weir, Miotti
Centres: Johnson, Tuipulotu, McDowall, Fergusson
Back Three: Forbes, Steyn, Smith, McKay

Glasgow side to face Stormers

1. Oli Kebble (73)
2. Johnny Matthews (27)
3. Zander Fagerson (110)
4. Richie Gray (78)
5. Kiran McDonald (50)
6. Ally Miller (11)
7. Rory Darge (18)
8. Jack Dempsey (17)

9. Ali Price (C) (106)
10. Ross Thompson (32)
11. Kyle Steyn (48)
12. Sam Johnson (88)
13. Sione Tuipulotu (15)
14. Josh McKay (10)
15. Ollie Smith (15)

16. George Turner (72)
17. Jamie Bhatti (62)
18. Simon Berghan (8)
19. Rob Harley (262)
20. Thomas Gordon (48)
21. Jamie Dobie (33)
22. Duncan Weir (122)
23. Cole Forbes (21)

Unavailable for selection: Sebastian Cancelliere, Scott Cummings, Matt Fagerson, George Horne, Rufus McLean, Ryan Wilson.

DHL Stormers: 15 Damian Willemse, 14 Seabelo Senatla, 13 Ruhan Nel, 12 Rikus Pretorius, 11 Leolin Zas, 10 Manie Libbok, 9 Herschel Jantjies, 8 Evan Roos, 7 Hacjivah Dayimani, 6 Junior Pokomela, 5 Marvin Orie, 4 Adre Smith, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Scarra Ntubeni, 1 Steven Kitshoff (captain).

Replacements: 16 JJ Kotze, 17 Ali Vermaak, 18 Brok Harris, 19 Salmaan Moerat, 20 Ben-Jason Dixon, 21 Nama Xaba, 22 Paul de Wet, 23 Warrick Gelant.

Strong side from Glasgow with Matthews getting the nod over Turner the only somewhat controversial call. It is a strong front five starting and to come on. Kebble in particular should be up for this and has a tough task with Malherbe.

Don't know enough about the Stormers to make a reasoned judgement on whether that side is any good outside the front row and SH.

It is meant to be cloudy but dry and should be a competitive game. Hopefully we can turn them over and guarantee top eight.

Edinburgh pick Kinghorn at 10 and VDW at 15.....strange times indeed!

RDW wrote:https://twitter.com/EdinburghRugby/status/1515456576148099080?t=55Rzfxl5to3hzlXIyYtwYw&s=19

Tries here - some great involvements from Kinghorn

Peter Wright in the BBC text said Bath were 'terrified' of Kinghorn!

He certainly poses a threat this season that most teams won't come across elsewhere. He's probably the quickest 10 in the northern hemisphere (can only think of Barrett who is quicker in world rugby). Teams will eventually work out what to do with him but until then he can cause a lot of damage at club level. His long loopy passes do make me nervous though!

God bless Blarehorn and his SRU Hype Machine. 

Should we start believing it? He was great against Bath. 

Are we just agin gangling speedsters? #Justice4RichieVernon

George Carlin wrote:

RDW wrote:https://twitter.com/EdinburghRugby/status/1515456576148099080?t=55Rzfxl5to3hzlXIyYtwYw&s=19

Tries here - some great involvements from Kinghorn

Peter Wright in the BBC text said Bath were 'terrified' of Kinghorn!

He certainly poses a threat this season that most teams won't come across elsewhere. He's probably the quickest 10 in the northern hemisphere (can only think of Barrett who is quicker in world rugby). Teams will eventually work out what to do with him but until then he can cause a lot of damage at club level. His long loopy passes do make me nervous though!

God bless Blarehorn and his SRU Hype Machine. 

Should we start believing it? He was great against Bath. 

Are we just agin gangling speedsters? #Justice4RichieVernon

Blairhorn is undoubtably a good attacking threat, he is quick and can offload.

Question marks still around his ability to manage a game though, which is not that surprising given his inexperience at FH.

You would probably have to say that the move has been a qualified success so far, but that does not necessarily make him an international quality FH yet either.


I do kind of get Toonie's and Blair's thinking though that we do need an alternative to Finn, just in case he is injured, eaten to many pies or just not in the mood, all of which are real possibilities with him unfortunately.


Having had my doubts, I have come round to the idea that it is an experiment worth persisting with.