F1 2022 season - Michael Masi sacked

First topic message reminder :

Rumours suggesting Fernando Alonso's deal with Aston Martin could be up to 4 years long. 2 years guaranteed. Third year is driver side option and fourth year is team side option.
Alonso might never retire at this rate LOL

Didn't Verstappen, in 2018, start shoving Ocon for committing exactly the same move on exactly the same track at exactly the same corner as what Verstappen did to Hamilton this weekend?

I think it was more Ocon being a lap down at the time

Update on Binotto’s future imminent…strong suggestions the axe is being sharpened…
Ferrari dare not risk losing LeClerc…

Not sure if it is true but Ferrari were most affected by in season regulatory changes particularly the flexi-floor reduction regulation?

Yes we had the illegal floor…

Daniel Ricciardo is the favourite to replace Sergio Perez in 2024 if the feud between Perez and Verstappen continues to escalate…

Also Ferrari announced they blew the budget on development along time ago, and most upgrades didn’t work. Just Ferrari things…Alonso and Vettel being proven right again…

Fred Vasseur and Ferrari. Watch this space.

Not according to Ferrari

Jeff Navarro wrote:Update on Binotto’s future imminent…strong suggestions the axe is being sharpened…
Ferrari dare not risk losing LeClerc…

Jeff Navarro wrote:.... Ferrari announced they blew the budget on development along time ago, and most upgrades didn’t work. Just Ferrari things…Alonso and Vettel being proven right again…

Putting Leclerc on inters when everyone else was on softs in Q3 was probably the final straw for Leclerc. I agree a change is needed but again it has to be the right one and they can't throw away everything and start again - they are still the second / third best car. Someone mentioned here I think, maybe you and a few others, that Ferrari have a certain culture not necessarily conducive for such season long battles - and when Schumacher arrived he brought his own team with him.

There is a claim that Checo purposely crashed in his final run in Q3 of qualifying in Monaco because he didn't want Verstappen to finish ahead of him.  In addition to this claim, it is claimed that Checo later admitted he crashed on purpose to Christian Horner and Helmut Marko and that Verstappen found out about Checo's admission.  Apparently two journalists are claiming they "know" this.  

In the Monaco race Leclerc started on pole, Sainz P2, Checo P3 and Verstappen P4.   Checo went on to win the race while Verstappen was third.

No name Bertie wrote:

Jeff Navarro wrote:Update on Binotto’s future imminent…strong suggestions the axe is being sharpened…
Ferrari dare not risk losing LeClerc…

Jeff Navarro wrote:.... Ferrari announced they blew the budget on development along time ago, and most upgrades didn’t work. Just Ferrari things…Alonso and Vettel being proven right again…

Putting Leclerc on inters when everyone else was on softs in Q3 was probably the final straw for Leclerc.   I agree a change is needed but again it has to be the right one and they can't throw away everything and start again - they are still the second / third best car.   Someone mentioned here I think, maybe you and a few others, that Ferrari have a certain culture not necessarily conducive for such season long battles - and when Schumacher arrived he brought his own team with him.

I think it was long ago agreed that the biggest difference for Ferrari during the Schumacher years was the professionalism that the team exhibited - Schumi as the lead driver with obsessive focus (and obviously no little talent), Ross Brawn doing the strategy t and Rory Byrne the design, with Jean Todt as the overall manager. While not perfect (no team ever is), they avoided the own goals that have plagued Ferrari in recent years.

I mean we aren’t employing bums from off the streets in Bologna…
The winning mentality has eroded away.
Let’s not forget Alonso, Vettel and Allison have been at Ferrari and yet we’ve won nothing…
It’s almost got to the point where being Italian should be red line and looking for non Italians would be better to rebuild the management structure…

Also Perez crashing deliberately is absolutely ridiculous. These two sources are friends of Jos Verstappen…so screw them.

Jeff Navarro wrote:I mean we aren’t employing bums from off the streets in Bologna…
The winning mentality has eroded away.
Let’s not forget Alonso, Vettel and Allison have been at Ferrari and yet we’ve won nothing…
It’s almost got to the point where being Italian should be red line and looking for non Italians would be better to rebuild the management structure…

Also Perez crashing deliberately is absolutely ridiculous. These two sources are friends of Jos Verstappen…so screw them.

Every F1 team tries to employ the best people (although obviously some have more money, resources or prestige than others), so the difference between success and (relative) failure is pretty slim. It's not as though Ferrari have built a dog of a car this year (unlike Mercedes), they've just failed to get the most out of it on a few occasions. The thing with Leclerc and the tyres on Friday could have made them look like geniuses had the rain started a couple of minutes earlier, but unfortunately ended up looking lieke another strategy own goal.

I doubt that it's anything to do with the Italian mentality, more that they've got into a bit of a rut in the last few years with these tactical / strategic calls and probably lack a bit of confidence in their decision making (and decision makers) relative to Merc and RB

LeClerc
Hamilton

Swap would be interesting tbh…

Not sure I see a massive amount of point in bringing back a 35 year old Hulkenburg but here we are

Once Ferrari refused to pay extra for Schumacher to retain his seat for 2023, and Schumacher subsequently leaving the Ferrari driver academy. There was little hope for him to retain that seat.
Schumacher has been largely disappointing and at least with Hulkenberg, Haas are assuming he won’t crash all the time.

It seems Toto Wolff wants Mercedes F1 to offer Mick Schumacher something.  If Ricciardo turns down the Mercedes reserve driver role it seems that it will be offered to Mick Schumacher.   With regard to Mick Schumacher's performance it seems to be accepted that it is in the second year with a new car that he comes alive and becomes competitive - meaning one can expect a steady improvement.  Last year he had Mazepin as partner and to learn from (no learning really) this year it is a new car with the returning Magnussen to learn from.   I suppose with the cost cap there will be less rookies and more older experienced drivers.

No name Bertie wrote:It seems Toto Wolff wants Mercedes F1 to offer Mick Schumacher something.  If Ricciardo turns down the Mercedes reserve driver role it seems that it will be offered to Mick Schumacher.   With regard to Mick Schumacher's performance it seems to be accepted that it is in the second year with a new car that he comes alive and becomes competitive - meaning one can expect a steady improvement.  Last year he had Mazepin as partner and to learn from (no learning really) this year it is a new car with the returning Magnussen to learn from.   I suppose with the cost cap there will be less rookies and more older experienced drivers.

I thnk Schmacher is an OK driver, bbut yes his record in junior formulas and his F1 career to date do suggest it takes him quite a time to adjust to a new car - doesn't have the 'quick out of the box' level of the likes of Russell, Norris, LeClerc (or previously Vandorne, who was great in GP2 but never quite made the transition - possibly the wrong car at the wrong time).

Agree with GSC above, don't really see why Hulkenberg gets another go - he's proven he's a pretty good driver, but not one of the elite, and has been away from F1 racing for three years bar a couple of substitute appearances. Can't imagine that he brings much sponsorship money to the table, certainly by comparison with some of the billionaires sons or Formula 2 drivers.

GSC wrote:Not sure I see a massive amount of point in bringing back a 35 year old Hulkenburg but here we are

Haas lining themselves up to be the most forgotten team of 2023, early doors

Helmut says Danny Ric will be back at RB as third driver next year

Looks like the RB will take some beating this weekend. Charles might have some work to do

Max pole by a mile, Perez and LeClerc line up p2 and 3. Mercs back in p5/6.

Vettel p9 in his last qualifying session

The sprint weekend massively flattered Mercedes in Brazil. Miles off Red Bull again this weekend…

Cant imagine anyone is touching Max tomorrow. Race between Charles and Checo

Perez messed up the last corner or he'd be closer to Max

Logan Sargeant has achieved the requirements for a super license. The grid for 2023 is complete.

This race is boring as fudge...

Hamilton DNF hydraulics failure

Verstappen cruises his 15th win off the season, 35th career win
LeClerc gets second in the championship and Perez has to settled for third.
Ferrari gets P2 in championship

I get why tie breakers exist in a sporting sense but surely an argument to split the prize money when teams finish level on points. Alfa getting 12m more than AM because Bottas got a 5th place finish once seems generous

Anyway, it won't be a season that lives long in the memory. The new regulations vastly improved the product but the trend of one team and driver dominating sadly continued. Still takes nothing away from Verstappen who has probably been the best driver in the world for 2 years now. Only one driver on the grid you feel can go toe to toe with him in equal machinery.

Ferrari starting with the fastest car and ending up with the third best car was hugely disappointing. Even aside from the teams weekly implosion, LeClerc bled too many points through his own mistakes to beat someone of Verstappens quality.

Mercedes talked a good game and still ended up with a draggy car that is sensitive to any kind of high speed circuit.

Norris continues to be the best driver outside of the big 3 teams (and best young driver in general), Ocon and Gasly should produce fireworks next year. Sad Sebs gone, biggest retirement since Michaels first. Not so sad Latifis gone, closest he should be able to get near an F1 car is hospitality...

A thought for Haas.

2020: Magnussen + Grosjean
2021 : Mazepin + Schumacher
2022a: Mazepin + Schumacher
2022b: Schumacher + Magnussen
2023: Magnussen + Hulkenberg

Ps: the two points that Perez "lost" from the last race because of Verstappen's refusal to obey team orders in the end made no difference because Leclerc beat Perez to second place in the drivers championship by three points. Personally I think this is fair - although whether something is fair or not is mute - Leclerc gets second in the drivers championship for 2022.

Charles was clearly better than Checo this season, so P2 is somewhat justified.

Jeff Navarro wrote:The sprint weekend massively flattered Mercedes in Brazil. Miles off Red Bull again this weekend…

Not sure it was the sprint race, more that the Interlagos circuit suited their car (or at least hid its deficiencies) while the RB and Ferrari didn't work as well there. Come back to sea level and circuits with longer straights and normal service was resumed, plus the Merc was back to having significant bouncing problems.

No doubt RB and Max deserved their titles, best car and one of the three best drivers* driving well - wouldn't have hurt Max to win it with a bit more grace (i.e. the Perez incident last race, while minor in the grand scheme of things would have made him look a better person). Ferrari probably ruing a few mistkes both in strategy and driving, but wouldn't have swung the Championship their way as RB outdid them in car development. Merc probably happy just to reach the end of the season and with the bonus win at Interlagos - time for some extensive redesign in time for next year.

Not a vintage season, because RB did too good a job in the car design and development, while Ferrari got the car findamentally right but couldn't develop it enough and Merc went fundamentally wrong and spent all season trying th chase problems that they never fully got on top of (although race results showed them to be more successful in the later part of the season). Hopefully 2023 will see a couple of the other teams build more effective cars and make for better competition., as the aero changes themselves did achieve their objective to some extent of allowing cars to run coser and to pass more easily - problem is if the race leader is 15-30 seconds up the road, such changes don't achieve much.

* Always difficult to know who is really the best, as they are in seriously unequal machinery. We know that Max is significantly faster than Perez in a car that suits him, but not really how he stacks up against Hamilton or LeClerc in equal machinery and given equal opportunity. Of course there's also the issue with driving style and how Max's car is set up in a way that makes it hard for others to drive as effectively, which skews the appearance of how good Max is relative to his team mates - that's no criticism of Max or his team, their job is to produce a race and championship winning car by whatever means necessary, which they have done reasonably in 2021 and very successfully in 22.

Charles has the speed to challenge Max and Lewis. But he has to iron out some of the French GP mistakes if you're gonna beat those two over a season

I feel this will go down as certainly one of the dullest seasons in recent memory.

It'll also, sadly, be remembered for a lot of the rubbish that happened off the track, rather than on it. The RB "mistake" on the overspend, the Max/Checo incident at Interlagos and the fallout from that etc.

But F1 fans really can be pathetic, sometimes. It seems to have turned into this ridiculous tribal atmosphere with personal attacks against drivers, teams and officials.

Flip side of bringing in fans via drive to survive is a generation expecting manufactured drama. Even the events above really were a step beyond nothing in the end

The season can be determined ‘boring’ but I’d say that’s majorly Ferrari’s fault…
The illegal floor getting found out essentially ended any hopes in 2022. Fragile car as well. LeClerc making too many errors.

Seasons will always be defined by title fights and this one was a non event by midseason

Do think the new cars have led to some better racing - we saw some really good fights in track throughout the season, just a shame Ferrari’s title challenge faded for multiple reasons

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Do think the new cars have led to some better racing - we saw some really good fights in track throughout the season, just a shame Ferrari’s title challenge faded for multiple reasons

That tends to happen when you stick to the spending cap and your main rival disregards it.

When Ferrari started with a better car?

GSC wrote:When Ferrari started with a better car?

And were far more impacted by the mid-season rule change on floors tightening than any other (maybe bar Alfa)...

Yeah just Ferraris dropoff isn't covered by the period of RBs breach so was a weird comment

China GP is off for COVID again. No replacement so will be 23 races next year
Baku apparently getting a new 10 year deal

Sprints next year will be Baku, Austria, Belgium, Qatar, Austin and Brazil, though Qatar will be dropped if Saudi Arabia feel like paying for a sprint

It’s getting to the point where Shanghai should be panned permanently

They're not gonna punt China as a market so it's redundant

Verstappen confirms he’ll use #1 in 2023.

LeClerc has held talks with Mercedes for 2024 drive…depends on whether Hamilton stays on or retires.