England's Winter of Cricket 2022/23

First topic message reminder :

Of course we have the World T20 covered in a separate thread, but I thought we should have a new one for England's upcoming games this winter, which feature:

Three ODIs in Australia (17th-22nd November)
Three tests in Pakistan (1st-21st December)
Three ODIs in South Africa (27th January-1st February)
Two tests in New Zealand (16th-28th February)
Three ODIs in Bangladesh (March)

Looking forward to the tests, but I think the ODIs will be instantly forgettable!

Jetty wrote:England ODI Squad to South Africa

Buttler, Ali, Roy, Salt, Duckett, Malan, Brook, S Curran, Willey, Woakes, Archer, Rashid, Stone Topley

Under the circumstances, with another Test tour following, generally looks a good squad. Interesting that Brook and Duckett are the only two from the last Test squad to be selected. Would think in the absolute first choice squad you'd also want Root, Stokes (if he unretires) and Wood. Obviously also without Livingstone following his injury in Pakistan and YJB .

Hope that Roy can rediscover some batting form, as when he is good he is so destructive, but might be getting close to the last chance saloon

The talk is all about Archer returning but for me its the selection of Roy. He looks completely broken and devoid of confidence. Surely its time to move on. I'm hoping to be proved wrong but I'm not holding my breath

Actually, I only just noticed that Hales is not in the squad - recent form suggests he'd have been a better pick than Roy. Is there an issue with availability or ahs he upset the selectors again?

Hales, like Root is playing in the UAE franchise t20 tournament - think the ECB have let guys go and play that, get some fringe guys in, seeing as this is a rather pointless ODI series.

They’ve got a similar block of games ahead of the ODI World Cup next winter, similar to what they had in Pakistan for the t20 World Cup this year - where I expect they’ll want as many of their first choice squad as possible

I see England have announced their test squad for the two test tour of New Zealand in February (getting in early!)

Changes are

In: Stuart Broad, Matt Potts, Dan Lawrence, Olly Stone
Out: Mark Wood (Rested), Liam Livingstone (injured), Keaton Jennings, Jamie Overton and Rehan Ahmed
Bairstow won't be fit in time to play and they're easing Jofra back in with white ball cricket first.

Wood requested time at home after being away from his young family for a few months, which is fair enough (that is according to Ali Martin btw).
Ahmed left out as England don't think they'll need a 2nd spinner, and think he'd benefit more from playing franchise cricket (basically going to pick him for the white ball tour of Bangladesh in March, they say too).

Think you're looking at an XI of;

Crawley
Duckett
Pope
Root
Brook
Stokes
Foakes
Robinson
Broad
Leach
Anderson

Suspect Broad and Stone might get a game each?

Looks a rather sensible squad. Rest for Wood is well timed ; glad to see Potts and Lawrence getting back into the group - and a hopefully fully fit and more durable Stone.

Taken along with the SA white ball squad and some announcements about various players in franchise leagues , it appears they are giving plenty of thought to managing workloads - but in a rather less blunt manner than the previous regime did with their "rotation". Though in all fairness , the Covid situation made things a lot more difficult back then. Bit more normal now.

The main thing is : I can't see key players being arbitrarily rotated out of important matches under this administration. They will be ready to make changes at times : but form, fitness and conditions will be the significant points. And what is best to win the next game in front of them...

England Test squad for two matches in NZ
Ben Stokes (Durham capt.), James Anderson (Lancashire), Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire), Harry Brook (Yorkshire), Zak Crawley (Kent), Ben Duckett (Nottinghamshire), Ben Foakes (Surrey), Will Jacks (Surrey), Dan Lawrence (Essex), Jack Leach (Somerset), Ollie Pope (Surrey), Matthew Potts (Durham), Ollie Robinson (Sussex), Joe Root (Yorkshire), Olly Stone (Nottinghamshire)

No place for Wood or Ahmed, and Jennings gets a break from drinks carrying. Broad, Potts and Stone beef up the seam attack and Dan Lawrence returns. Obviously still no YJB, and Archer not being risked. Brook, Duckett and Stone the only members of both the ODI and Test squads.

Given the similarity to home conditions, I think this gives a pretty good skeleton of the Ashes squad, give or take Bairstow and Archer if fit.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:...

Think you're looking at an XI of;

Crawley
Duckett
Pope
Root
Brook
Stokes
Foakes
Robinson
Broad
Leach
Anderson

Suspect Broad and Stone might get a game each?

Outwith injuries, I think that's pretty likely - can't see them giving Pope the gloves and dropping Foakes to bolster the batting. Slight concern about the lack of batting depth 8 - 11, but you'd hope that Robinson can live up to his batting potential given a bit more responsibility, and Broad remembers that he used to be able to be an effective lower order hitter. Definitely see some scope for rotating the bowlers, perhaps giving Robinson a match off as well?

dummy_half wrote:England Test squad for two matches in NZ
Ben Stokes (Durham capt.), James Anderson (Lancashire), Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire), Harry Brook (Yorkshire), Zak Crawley (Kent), Ben Duckett (Nottinghamshire), Ben Foakes (Surrey), Will Jacks (Surrey), Dan Lawrence (Essex), Jack Leach (Somerset), Ollie Pope (Surrey), Matthew Potts (Durham), Ollie Robinson (Sussex), Joe Root (Yorkshire), Olly Stone (Nottinghamshire)

No place for Wood or Ahmed, and Jennings gets a break from drinks carrying. Broad, Potts and Stone beef up the seam attack and Dan Lawrence returns. Obviously still no YJB, and Archer not being risked. Brook, Duckett and Stone the only members of both the ODI and Test squads.

Given the similarity to home conditions, I think this gives a pretty good skeleton of the Ashes squad, give or take Bairstow and Archer if fit.

Woakes may well be back in that discussion too. He missed the whole 2022 summer with injury but looked fully fit in the World T20. He's also skipping the 2023 IPL to play CC early next summer to prove form and fitness. Given his quality in home conditions and his batting at 8 he will surely be in with a good shot.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/64101504

Dates now confirmed for England's tour to Bangladesh in March. Not content with just three ODIs, three T20s have also been shoved in! The ODIs will form England's last fixtures in the one and only ODI Super League and, as England and Bangladesh are both mathematically secure in terms of qualification for the World Cup, will probably just be viewed as a chance to warm-up in sub-continent conditions ahead of the actual World Cup. The T20s are there because they were originally viewed as warm-ups for the 2021 T20 World Cup, before the tour was scuppered. But they'll play 'em anyway.

To be honest, I wouldn't have minded England making this a full tour and playing a couple of tests out there, rather than visiting New Zealand again.

Duty281 wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/64101504

Dates now confirmed for England's tour to Bangladesh in March. Not content with just three ODIs, three T20s have also been shoved in! The ODIs will form England's last fixtures in the one and only ODI Super League and, as England and Bangladesh are both mathematically secure in terms of qualification for the World Cup, will probably just be viewed as a chance to warm-up in sub-continent conditions ahead of the actual World Cup. The T20s are there because they were originally viewed as warm-ups for the 2021 T20 World Cup, before the tour was scuppered. But they'll play 'em anyway.

To be honest, I wouldn't have minded England making this a full tour and playing a couple of tests out there, rather than visiting New Zealand again.

I agree with your final sentence there Duty - just a huge shame it’ll be over a decade since the last test tour there when we go in 2027 (if that even happens). Like you say, the two test New Zealand tour isn’t as interesting as a potential Bangladesh one would’ve been, but alas!

Yes, this will be England's third test tour of New Zealand in the last five years (early 2018 and late 2019 being the others). And guess where England are going in November 2024? Yay, NZ again for three more tests. And also another tour to NZ in November 2025, but just limited overs games, not tests. And, don't forget, NZ are coming over next summer (limited-overs games only) and in 2026 for some tests.

There won't be a year that passes without England playing NZ in some form!

From March 2018 to June 2026 England will have played 100 tests and the breakdown of opponents is:
India 24 times
Aus 20 times
NZ 17 times
WI 12 times (but no more visits until at least late 2027);
Pak 11 times
SA 7 times (no more tests v SA until Dec. 2026)
SL 7 times (no more visits to SL until at least late 2027);
Ire 2 (one-off test next summer before the Ashes);
Bang 0
Zim 0 (very sad, would love to see an England tour here again, and no games of any kind scheduled unless at a major tournament);  
Afg 0

On a separate note, Ireland have done virtually nothing with their test status so far. Ireland fought for a decade, after beating Pakistan in 2007, to get that accolade, but after five and a half years they've played a grand total of three tests, and none since 2019 when they briefly embarrassed England at Lord's. Thankfully, they are down to play five tests from March 2023-January 2024 (one each v Bangladesh, SL, Eng, Zim and Afg), so they are taking it up a gear, but why not play two/three match series against Zimbabwe or Afghanistan?

A bad state of affairs, it isnt really that long ago that 5 Test series against South Africa and the Windies were almost as a big as The Ashes. Seems odd that NZ are featuring so often but will at least take another regular opponent to the constant Tests against India in particular

dummy_half wrote:Actually, I only just noticed that Hales is not in the squad - recent form suggests he'd have been a better pick than Roy. Is there an issue with availability or ahs he upset the selectors again?

He made it into the Cricinfo T20 Team of the Year

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/teams-of-2022-ben-stokes-sikandar-raza-suryakumar-yadav-and-renuka-singh-make-it-1350664

Quick question, who do England play in the winter of 25/26?

Maine man wrote:Quick question, who do England play in the winter of 25/26?

Currently scheduled to be:

October-November 2025: New Zealand (a, 3 ODIs, 3 T20Is); November 2025-January 2026: Australia (a, 5 Tests); January-February 2026: Sri Lanka (a, 3 ODIs, 3 T20Is); February-March 2026: T20 World Cup (hosted in India and Sri Lanka).

https://www.thecricketer.com/Topics/england/england_face_stacked_schedule_future_tours_programme_confirmed_2023-2027.html

Thank you very much Duty. Planning a trip for my 50th and to be honest I'll probably pick the Sri Lanka tour.

No finer place.

https://cricket.lancashirecricket.co.uk/news/2022-news/four-lancashire-mens-players-named-in-england-lions-squads/

Good to see Saqib Mahmood returning from injury. Hopefully England's fast bowlers won't be cursed in 2023.

guildfordbat wrote:

sirfredperry wrote:The mystery man I was thinking about was, indeed, Vettori, although I also overlooked Vaas.

Hadlee, for me, was a great player and his stats were even more impressive BECAUSE of playing in a comparatively weak team.

Hi Sir Fred - I kinda (down with the kids there!) get that. Credit to Hadlee for the wickets he took and sometimes keeping NZ in the game but I doubt whether he would have had the opportunity to bowl so much if he'd had better players around him.

I'm certainly not rubbishing Hadlee for a moment. Just believe there were some greater bowlers (from other countries, especially the West Indies) throughout his time.

Meeting up with a knowledgeable NZ cricket pal next week when he arrives from Auckland. I'll get his opinion and then post here, whether it supports me or not.

Did say I would get back about this. Spoke to my Kiwi pal concerning Hadlee although not as much as either of us would have liked as the ladies with us kept steering the conversation back to weddings, babies and other family stuff. 

Whilst he accepted my point that Hadlee pretty much had a free pass into the NZ Test side and could bowl as much as he wanted, he countered that Hadlee didn't often have anyone putting pressure on the batsmen at the other end. 

Furthermore, in specific response to my putting Hadlee behind West Indian greats of his era, my pal flagged that NZ had done more than ok (certainly better than most other countries) against the Windies with Hadlee leading the way. Having since checked, of 3 series - NZ won one (1-0 of 3 Tests), lost one (0-2 of 4) and drew one (1-1 of 3) with several fourfers and fivefers for Hadlee. 

In all fairness and having looked more at his career stats, I have to concede that Hadlee should have his place amongst bowling greats. I trust no one will object though to my still saying that of those I would choose to watch, he remains a little behind some of the West Indians of the same time - simply personal choice relating to the X-factor I saw in them and remember.

Duty281 wrote:I hear that one of VTR's favourite players - Luke Wright - is leading the race to get the national selector role.

The (pointless) ODIs v Australia, by the way, start in six days time, so it's a very swift turnaround from the World T20.

Luke Wright did indeed get the national selector role. That was after Alec Stewart declined to pursue things with England despite media speculation that he was the front runner, deciding instead to remain as Diector of Cricket at Surrey. No other reasons were given publicly.

Been announced today by Surrey and thus it is properly in the public domain that Stewart's wife Lynn is fighting cancer, as she has been since 2013, and that he will temporarily be standing down from his day to day duties at the Club as she begins a new course of treatment.

Stewie's a good guy with time for everyone whether you agree with him or not and I wish him, his wife and family all the very best.

Yes I read that today about Stewart. Puts his decisions not to take up England offers (which had slightly puzzled me - with all due respect to those who would prefer him to put Surrey first anyway) into more perspective. Certainly hope for the best for his wife from this latest treatment - and that he will eventually feel able to re-engage with the game in whatever role he wishes.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/jamie-overton-suffers-stress-fracture-of-the-back-likely-to-miss-ashes-and-surrey-county-championship-defence-1354587

Jamie Overton suffers a stress fracture and will be out for a fair while, probably the whole of the 2023 season. England's curse not lifted...

Duty281 wrote:https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/jamie-overton-suffers-stress-fracture-of-the-back-likely-to-miss-ashes-and-surrey-county-championship-defence-1354587

Jamie Overton suffers a stress fracture and will be out for a fair while, probably the whole of the 2023 season. England's curse not lifted...

Bad luck for Overton at a time when he was at least positioned on the fringes of the England squad. I suppose you are always going to have one or two bowlers sidelined at any one time so hopefully this is just one case and we aren't going to get back to that situation where the team was calling up practically anyone who could get their arm over in West Indies...

Lowlandbrit wrote:

alfie wrote:

Lowlandbrit wrote:How long before people claim this pitch was fine all along because 30+ wickets end up falling?

Haha... Don't think "fine" is going to be the takeaway , whatever happens from here.

29 wickets so far, all results possible on day 5: zero chance of any consequences for Pakistan, and there will absolutely be a non-ironic "wish we were playing on that pitch" article within five years somewhere.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/64345418

England Lions begin their tour of Sri Lanka today with a tour game - think its a 16 a-side hit around type thing, but Lees scored a hundred on day one

Jofra's rating himself at around 80% fit ahead of an expected comeback for England on Friday. He's got through 19 overs in the SA20 franchise stuff, taking 8 wickets with an economy of just over 7.5.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/jofra-archer-about-80-percent-fit-ahead-of-england-comeback-in-south-africa-1355865

Possible teams for tomorrow, courtesy of Cricinfo:

South Africa (possible) 1. Quinton de Kock (wk), 2 Janneman Malan, 3 Temba Bavuma (capt), 4 Aiden Markram, 5 Heinrich Klaasen, 6 David Miller, 7 Wayne Parnell, 8 Kagiso Rabada, 9 Sisanda Magala/Lungi Ngidi, 10 Tabraiz Shamsi, 11 Anrich Nortje.

England: 1 Jason Roy, 2 Phil Salt / Ben Duckett, 3 Dawid Malan, 4 Jos Buttler (capt & wk), 5 Harry Brook, 6 Moeen Ali, 7 Sam Curran, 8 Jofra Archer, 9 Chris Woakes, 10 Adil Rashid, 11 Reece Topley / Olly Stone.

South Africa need at least one win from this three-game series, or they'll have to go through a protracted qualifying event in the summer to have any chance of making the World Cup. Two or three wins and their WC status should be assured. They do have what looks like their strongest XI together for this series.

No such pressure on England, this series is just about preparation ahead of the big event in India. Brook will probably make his ODI debut, Roy is in a desperate battle to keep his place with his form tanking, and Archer makes an eagerly awaited return to the England fold.

Jofra Archer plays cricket for England tomorrow. All is right with the world

So happy to see Jof back. He's one of my favourite players to watch.

That's pretty close to a full strength bowling line-up for England. Wood the only notable absentee but Topley and Stone are good replacements.

1.YJB 2.??? 3.Root 4.Stokes 5.Buttler 6.Moeen 7.Curran 8.Woakes 9.Jof 10.Dilly 11.Wood

If, as I suspect he will, Stokes returns for the CWC I'd expect a full strength side of that with the second opener spot clearly up for grabs.

1.YJB 2.??? 3.Root 4.Stokes 5.Brook 6.Buttler 7.Moeen 8.Curran 9.Woakes 10.Jof 11.Dilly

If Brook really fires and makes himself a must pick they might go batter heavy looking to get some overs from Root I guess?

It will be particularly interesting to see how Surran converts his World T20 success into the 50 over format.

Archer and Stone playing in the same XI, I am in heaven

SA win the toss and bat first

England XI - Roy, Malan, Duckett, Brook, Buttler, Moeen, Curran, Willey, Rashid, Archer, Stone

This really is a must win for SA. I still do not understand why they persist with Bavuma though (watch him go big today now).

Ali strikes in his first over after SA had a very good start. Bavuma out for 36 when he was actually looking very good for a big score.

SA 168/3 after 30. Looks a good pitch for batting so they'll need to have a good last twenty , you'd think.

Sam Curran the pick of the bowlers so far. Archer a bit expensive in his opening spell but looked to be easing himself back into action comfortably enough.

Rashid strikes even as I type so Klaasen is gone and we are into the all rounders at 171/4. Think England will be fairly happy at this point...

It actually not the most entertaining match to watch. The bowling has been fairly ordinary and the batting average at best. On this track a score over 300 should be a given.

eirebilly_01 wrote:It actually not the most entertaining match to watch. The bowling has been fairly ordinary and the batting average at best. On this track a score over 300 should be a given.

Yes nothing particularly spectacular about it - and these random ODIs lack something anyway with little depending on the result. Though I suppose this one matters to SA from a qualification point of view.

I shan't be sitting up late for it : basically just wanted to see how Archer and Stone went on return to the colours. To be fair , van der Dussen has played pretty well. Still reckon SA will need more than 300 so will need a big push over the last ten.

Archer has been fair tonked alfie. Not really at 100% but the signs are there that he is on his way back. Bowling 10 overs on this track when he has not bowled more than 4 would be hurting him i would imagine.

SA may just get up to the 300 mark, still shy of par for me.

So it is a 299 chase for England. Should be a fairly comfortable chase.

I know Roy is under pressure but this is the perfect track for him to find some form. If he cant make runs on this track then i fear for his England future.

Bit short of par. Curran and Stone bowled very well, plus Moeen found some good turn.

Thought SA might open with Shamsi, but it's actually Parnell.

35 -0 after just 4 overs, suggests that the SA may well have been a bit under par.
Biggest news so far is that Roy has managed to time a few away to the boundary.

SA tightening the screws here. Got a feeling a wicket is on its way...

Roy with a fifty at just above a run a ball. Not the kind of strike rate that would get you into the Test team, but a relief to see him actually getting a few runs for once

14 overs, 91-0 and Roy past 50 at better than a run a ball. Are we back in 2019?

Roy's first ODI fifty v a test nation since July 2021.

Roy is going for it now

VTR wrote:Roy with a fifty at just above a run a ball. Not the kind of strike rate that would get you into the Test team, but a relief to see him actually getting a few runs for once

Was going to say how comfortable it's looking for Roy and Malan when the latter spoons one up to give Magala a wicket. Magala is a new SA bowler to me and looks as if he would rather be at lunch than in the gym but has been tidy and effective in his opening two overs.

Not Roy's sternest challenge on the field by any means but his biggest current obtacle is probably in his head and he's dealt well with everything so far as he nears three figures.

And now ... Duckett edges behind to give Nortje something in the end column. Looks like a game could be on after all!

Another for Magala! 

Brook lbw for a duck third ball. He almost seems in a hurry to get off with no review taken. Slightly surprised by that and Roy, to his credit, has a word with Brook to check he's sure before he goes on his way. Tv replay shows it was clipping leg (which was my first impression) - so Brook wouldn't have been saved but the review wouldn't have been lost either. 

157/3 now off 23. 142 more needed by England or, reaslistically, 7 more wickets to be taken by SA. If the hosts don't get us all out, we'll surely win ....

How fantastic for Roy to get 100

That was actually the most controlled innings i have seen from him.