Scotland v Ireland 6 Nations Championship Sunday 12th March 2023

Scotland v Ireland
6 Nations Championship and Triple Crown Decider

BT Murrayfield Stadium
Edinburgh

Sunday 12th March
KO 15.00


So we approach the business end of the championship with a triple crown at stake and for Ireland a potential Grand Slam, which as the top side in the world, they must feel is within their grasp.

Ireland, more than any other side in the championship, have been Scotland's bogy side. They seem to have been inside our heads for quite some time now and with the WC coming up, if we are going to have any chance of progression from our group, it is a headspace that needs to be altered drastically. Scotland were good in their first two games but came up short against another of the big boys last time out, despite playing at times, some sublime rugby and at times dominating France. Ireland are going to be every bit as physical as France were and are playing with even more belief. They were given an unexpected;y hard game by Italy last time out and that will no doubt have removed any complacency from them. All the smart money will be on Ireland to win this one.

Scotland, to confound form and the bookies will have to match Ireland physically for the bulk of the game and to take their chances. They have shown this season that they can play well off little ball and have an extremely dangerous backline when they can get it moving. They are also playing at home and that may possibly lift them as well, along with a sense of what if, regarding the French match. The general consensus this season is that Scotland have been progressing, but this is another level, but a necessary one if they are going to be considered a side that can really compete with the best.

Ireland, by just about any objective reckoning at the moment, are the best!

I am not seeing an awful lot of changes for this one, maybe a Scotland team along these lines:


1. Schoeman
2. Turner
3. Fagerson Z
4. Gray J
5. Gray R
6. Dempsey
7. Ritchie
8. Fagerson M
9. White
10. Russell
11. DVDM
12. Tuipolotu
13. Jones
14. Steyn
15. Hogg

Subs

Sutherland
Ashman
Nel
Skinner
Christie
Price
Kinghorn
Redpath


I am assuming Gilchrist will be suspended, though the mystery of his disciplinary continues to perplex

Sutherland has had 2 good run outs for Ulster in the past two weeks and looks fit and hungry

Ashman deserves his chance and I don't want another overthrow from FB in the last 5 mins

Christie has been consistently excellent for Sarries these past few weeks and Watson still looks flat to me. He deserves his chance.

Redpath might bring some creativity off the bench, out defence has stood up well without Harris.

A few slightly worrying reports coming out of France that Russell injured his leg in that game last night. He played very heavily strapped up and limped off at the end, his kicking also went to pot second half.

Could this be the game for Healy to make his debut for Scotland in?

Ireland have managed to scrape through their matches so far, but now face into playing the biggest match of the year.

It's not yet clear how many players that Farrell will have available to him but he needs his best to play and compete against the old enemy.

Will Furlong be available and ready with his history of injuries?  If not, and Bealham already out, then it's over to Tom O'Toole to start.
With Beirne injured, who starts alongside Ryan in the second row?   Henderson, who was so-so in the last match, or Ryan Baird who made great impact off the bench in revving up proceedings against Italy?

Forget moving Doris to 6, in order to have Conan at 8.  If you were to put Doris on the bacon-slicer, there'd be pieces of eight in every slice.   He's gold.    POM at 6, and Baird on bench along with Treadwell - maybe.
Gibson Park is training again, assuming he's fit, then he plays with Murray.  Question is who starts or comes off bench?  
Sexton also recovering from injury, but is training again.  Does he start, does Byrne go to bench?
McCloskey and Ringrose didn't participate in training last week, so might it be Aki and Henshaw?
Lowe didn't train either, and if his left boot is absent, then it's likely Jimmy O'Brien gets the 11 shirt.

Thankfully, Hansen and Keenan seem to be ok.

All up in the air with the oppo at home, and their tails up.   Might be only 5 points in it.

I just can't see anything but an Ireland win here, and relatively comfortably. I'd go as far as saying if we did win this it'd be our greatest win of the 6N era

Yes we've had big wins before, but whenever we've really HAD to win we come up short - something that's been a major failing of Scottish rugby since Glasgow won the league. We've also been here before in having a decent 6N but not able to make the next step to actual contenders, which we will be if we win this game

Also worth saying that Ireland are the best team in the world who have beaten all other tier 1 nations lately, including a Test series in NZ. They are a ruthless machine of a team who are frighteningly effectively in attack.

Ireland by 15!

BigGee wrote:Scotland v Ireland
6 Nations Championship and Triple Crown Decider

BT Murrayfield Stadium
Edinburgh

Sunday 12th March
KO 15.00


So we approach the business end of the championship with a triple crown at stake and for Ireland a potential Grand Slam, which as the top side in the world, they must feel is within their grasp.

Ireland, more than any other side in the championship, have been Scotland's bogy side. They seem to have been inside our heads for quite some time now and with the WC coming up, if we are going to have any chance of progression from our group, it is a headspace that needs to be altered drastically. Scotland were good in their first two games but came up short against another of the big boys last time out, despite playing at times, some sublime rugby and at times dominating France. Ireland are going to be every bit as physical as France were and are playing with even more belief. They were given an unexpected;y hard game by Italy last time out and that will no doubt have removed any complacency from them. All the smart money will be on Ireland to win this one.

Scotland, to confound form and the bookies will have to match Ireland physically for the bulk of the game and to take their chances. They have shown this season that they can play well off little ball and have an extremely dangerous backline when they can get it moving. They are also playing at home and that may possibly lift them as well, along with a sense of what if, regarding the French match. The general consensus this season is that Scotland have been progressing, but this is another level, but a necessary one if they are going to be considered a side that can really compete with the best.

Ireland, by just about any objective reckoning at the moment, are the best!

I am not seeing an awful lot of changes for this one, maybe a Scotland team along these lines:


1. Schoeman
2. Turner
3. Fagerson Z
4. Gray J
5. Gray R
6. Dempsey
7. Ritchie
8. Fagerson M
9. White
10. Russell
11. DVDM
12. Tuipolotu
13. Jones
14. Steyn
15. Hogg

Subs

Sutherland
Ashman
Nel
Skinner
Christie
Price
Kinghorn
Redpath


I am assuming Gilchrist will be suspended, though the mystery of his disciplinary continues to perplex

Sutherland has had 2 good run outs for Ulster in the past two weeks and looks fit and hungry

Ashman deserves his chance and I don't want another overthrow from FB in the last 5 mins

Christie has been consistently excellent for Sarries these past few weeks and Watson still looks flat to me. He deserves his chance.

Redpath might bring some creativity off the bench, out defence has stood up well without Harris.

Ritchie won’t move to 7.  He’s captain, his position is 6, he hasn’t played 7 in an age, there’s no way he’s moving.

I don’t think he deserves a call up on form pre and post (as little gametime as he’s had) injury, but I think Watson will start at 7.  Christie as you say probably deserves a run, but he’s had a handful of minutes for Scotland, and this would be a hell of a game to come in for.

Other than that, I think your 15 BG is probably fair enough.

I think we’re also likely to see a 6:2 bench split as we did with France

I’d love to see Suz involved, on form there isn’t a huge amount between him and Schoo (in my opinion), but I don’t think Bhatti has done anything wrong to justify being dropped and I don’t think Suz has quite hit form yet.

Also, I’d love to see Ashman involved, but I can’t see Toonie dropping Brown.

I suspect the bench will be largely the same, but with Johnny moving to a starting position and his place on the bench taken by either Cummings, who I think shouldn’t be thrown back into international rugby after so long out, or Henderson, who has been in the squad from the start, but is uncapped so that’s a hell of a risk.  Based on the above, I think we’ll see Cummings getting a callup this week and he’ll bench against Ire.

This is the team I expect to see:

1. Schoeman
2. Turner
3. Fagerson Z
4. Gray J
5. Gray R
6. Ritchie
7. Watson
8. Fagerson M
9. White
10. Russell
11. DVDM
12. Tuipolotu
13. Jones
14. Steyn
15. Hogg

Subs

Bhatti
Brown
Nel
Skinner
Cummings
Dempsey
Price
Kinghorn

I can’t see anything other than an Ireland win for this one unfortunately.  I wasn’t confident before they got a load of injured players back, now I’m even less confident

We're doubting a result so this is the time we'll get a result! Then lose to Italy at home...

I’m pretty sure this will be Hogg’s 100th cap if he is selected. A great achievement for Scotland’s best player in the pro era. He’ll certainly be up for this one.

Three weeks for Gilco

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/64864414

Here’s my punt at the team.

Schoeman
Turner
Fagerson
R Gray
J Gray
Ritchie
Watson
Fagerson
Price
Russell
VDM
Tuipulotu
Jones
Kinghorn
Hogg

Ashman, Bhatti, Nel, Henderson, Dempsey, White, Healy, Steyn

Bench spots for Ashman and Henderson for their good club form, kinghorn and Price to start with Steyn and white on the bench. A team built for a fast game at Murrayfield.

Ah come on bsando. A team built for a fast game and you start price???

Wow he came on gs France our momentum stopped and we were going side to side after that. Whyte is the form player and incumbent so he should start. I’d even have hornito on the bench over price.

Ireland still massive favourites here but we do have a chance as Ireland haven’t really gotten into a flow other than maybe 30 mins vs France.

The first half against Wales wasn't too shabby.
Game over 27-3 up.

As for Italy take them for granted at your peril.
Ireland played their second/third string half backs to give them game time

Should be a win for Ireland but to be fair this is probably the best Scotland team ever in the six nations so its a huge game. Its a trophy match for both teams, triple crown for Scotland and likely the title for Ireland as other teams will likely be too far behind on points difference. A lot to play for. Ireland by 12.

Come on guys, why all this negativity regarding the margin of loss, 2yrs ago we should have drew if Mr Price hadn't given away a ridiculous penalty which turned out to be costly!

Ireland are better player for player, especially if the names touted to be returning actually do, but anything can happen on the day. If Ireland don't perform, Scotland are good enough to take advantage. We certainly need a French performance or 3rd test vs ABs, Scotland at home are the real deal.

I feel all the pressure is on this Irish team to deliver a Grand Slam, there is a lot of expectation on this team being World Number 1 etc. They should win, but Scotland can win.

I find, when you are on a GS run, rounds 1-3 are exciting as you are winning and the GS comes into view, but rounds 4-5 are just nerve wrecking, you are in the position to win it, just don't #### it up!

For what its worth I think Scotland have some outrageously talented players, Richie, Hogg, Russell, Duhan and lots of others. They play beautiful rugby and they are Scotland so Ill begrudgingly root for them in most games. I say begrudgingly because the SRU sold their RWC2023 vote to France, never forget. I have more admiration for Townsend than anyone in the Scotland camp. It cant be easy to deal with some of the guys like Hogg and Russell. I think Townsend dealt with them well in dropping Russell and taking the captaincy off Hogg. It has turned out well in the end and Townsend has learned hard lessons himself along the way. He has done well but it seems like they are probably only half way down the culture change road Townsend would like and Scotland need to enjoy consistent performances. Must be tough on the fans.

Its infuriating but entertaining. As a Scottish rugby fan who endured the 00s im glad that the national side look to win in a positive fashion. If we decided to play a power game it would suck the life and soul out of our sport and we'd still lose!

Scotland don't win silverware but its awesome to watch (sometimes)

I have a feeling that this could turn out to be the match of the 6 nations!

Ireland Squad Round 4– 2023 Guinness Six Nations Championship:
Bundee Aki (Connacht/Galwegians) 44 caps
Ryan Baird (Leinster/Dublin University) 9 caps
Ross Byrne (Leinster/UCD) 17 caps
Craig Casey (Munster/Shannon) 10 caps
Jack Conan (Leinster/Old Belvedere) 36 caps
Gavin Coombes (Munster/Young Munster) 2 caps
Jack Crowley (Munster/Cork Constitution) 3 caps
Ciaran Frawley (Leinster/UCD)*
Tadhg Furlong (Leinster/Clontarf) 63 caps
Caelan Doris (Leinster/St Mary’s College) 26 caps
Jamison Gibson Park (Leinster) 23 caps
Mack Hansen (Connacht/Corinthians) 12 caps
Cian Healy (Leinster/Clontarf) 121 caps
Iain Henderson (Ulster/Academy) 71 caps
Robbie Henshaw (Leinster/Buccaneers) 61 caps
Rob Herring (Ulster/Ballynahinch) 33 caps
Hugo Keenan (Leinster/UCD) 28 caps
Ronan Kelleher (Leinster/Lansdowne) 20 caps
Dave Kilcoyne (Munster/UL Bohemians) 51 caps
Jordan Larmour (Leinster/St Marys College) 30 caps
James Lowe (Leinster) 18 caps
Stuart McCloskey (Ulster/Bangor) 12 caps
Conor Murray (Munster/Garryowen) 103 caps
Jimmy O’Brien (Leinster/Naas) 4 caps
Peter O’Mahony (Munster/Cork Constitution) 92 caps
Tom O’Toole (Ulster/Ballynahinch) 7 caps
Andrew Porter (Leinster/UCD) 51 caps
Cian Prendergast (Connacht/Corinthians) 1 cap
Garry Ringrose (Leinster/UCD) 49 caps
James Ryan (Leinster/UCD) 51 caps
Roman Salanoa (Munster/Shannon)*
Johnny Sexton (Leinster/St Mary’s College) 111 caps (c)
Dan Sheehan (Leinster/Lansdowne) 15 caps
Jacob Stockdale (Ulster/Lurgan) 35 caps
Nick Timoney (Ulster/Banbridge) 3 caps
Kieran Treadwell (Ulster/Ballymena) 10 caps
Josh van der Flier (Leinster/UCD) 48 caps

Big news is the return of Frawley, he replaces Osbourne who has a knock. It seems like all the big guns are back and available for selection.

From a Leinster perspective, Penny seems to only have a minor knock, which is good to hear. He came off the field looking to have a serious shoulder injury.

Darge, Cummings, McDowell and Berghan come back into the Scotland squad for the last two games.

Baylsis and the suspended Gilchrist head the other way.


Not sure the first twon are quite ready, maybe Cummings who did a full 80 mins last weekend more than Darge, but it will be a hard hard game against Ireland and a 6 day turnaround till the Italy game on the last weekend, so we may see more use of the squad in these last two weeknds than we have so far, when we have, to be fair, been pretty lucky on the injury front.

Good to see Henderson still with the squad, he can't be far away from a cap just now, but more likely against Italy than this week.

Territory is going to be key for this one. Anytime Ireland get in the 22 Scotland are at risk of a lineout maul and the Irish forwards getting over the line. We saw some heroic turnovers and strong defence against England and Wales but that will not be as likely against Ireland. Keeping Ireland out of the Scottish 22 as much as possible while taking all chances down the other end is pretty much the minimum requirement. Great to be playing for a trophy though, that in itself is progress.

Scotland have drafted in 4 players, but Sutherland wasn't one of them. Surely you want a guy like that in your squad?

mikey_dragon wrote:Scotland have drafted in 4 players, but Sutherland wasn't one of them. Surely you want a guy like that in your squad?

Sutherland has been mighty for Ulster, he's a player we'd love to keep but some up and coming lad called Kitshoff's ousting him.

mikey_dragon wrote:Scotland have drafted in 4 players, but Sutherland wasn't one of them. Surely you want a guy like that in your squad?

He was in the squad before, so he may well be still in it. They have not really announced the whole squad, just the comings and goings.

It would be strange not to have a reserve LH, or indeed an alternative front row for training purposes.


The way I read that announcement was that Darge was taking Baylis spot and Cummings for Gilchrist.

Berghan and Mcdowell were released from the squad largely because Glasgow really needed them for their trip to SA.

Could be a snowy weekend. Wrap up warm anyone going

George Horne doing media for Scotland yesterday, often a good sign that he is going to be featuring at the weekend!

Ahh won't fall for that red herring, it's happened before! Expect it'll be Aldi price, especially if Healy is involved in his first international

Thursday for the team announcement?

tigertattie wrote:Thursday for the team announcement?

Possibly Friday given it's a Sunday game.

We were all championing Crosbie at the start of the 6N, is he still in favour after his involvement so far? I thought he did quite well without being showy. Perhaps a physical battle vs Ireland is a game that he would do well in?

bsando wrote:We were all championing Crosbie at the start of the 6N, is he still in favour after his involvement so far? I thought he did quite well without being showy. Perhaps a physical battle vs Ireland is a game that he would do well in?

I think he's currently a better option than Watson on form. Christie is well worth a better look at this level too.

Trouble is in international rugby, you have got to show up and be seen to show up. Crosbie was solid without setting the heather on fire, that may not be enough with some of the other back row talents we have available.

Toonie has had a look at him now and you might suspect he may want to look at someone else for these last 2 games.

I fancy Christie may be somewhere in the 23 for this one.

Well if SRU press pictures are anything to go by, Watson, Ritchie, Christie and Schoeman all looking good for the squad

I listened to the BBC Rugby podcast last night and Tom English thinks Ritchie; Watson; Matt Fagerson as 6-8 so even he has discounted Crosbie.

Fwiw, it's a good listen with Greig Laidlaw as this weeks special guest.

Tom English loves talking about how we in Ireland think Scots are arrogant. Wasnt aware that was a thing.

Christie certainly looks like a promising player for Scotland and I would be happy to see him included for Ireland. I didn't see how he did for Saracens recently but he gets regular game time with them anyway. Certainly a player I'd like to see step up for Scotland.

Collapse2005 wrote:Tom English loves talking about how we in Ireland think Scots are arrogant. Wasnt aware that was a thing.

I don't think it is a thing amongst supporters, but the press aren't doing you many favours - comments like "put them back in their box" certainly don't help.

cakeordeath wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Tom English loves talking about how we in Ireland think Scots are arrogant. Wasnt aware that was a thing.

I don't think it is a thing amongst supporters, but the press aren't doing you many favours - comments like "put them back in their box" certainly don't help.

It is definitely a thing in some sectors of the Irish media and happens every time we play Ireland. It seems to have started after 'busgate' where we beat them in 2017. It's bizarre as we've only beaten Ireland once in 10 years or something depressing like that so I don't see why some pundits have it in for us so much.

Been a lot of chat about this on twitter this week. Usually it's Matt feckin Williams (to give him his full name) and the likes of Eddie O'Sullivan, but this time it was this guy saying there's been a lot of "talk" from the Scotland group and Ireland are going to put us back in our box.

https://twitter.com/offtheball/status/1631049169866743808?t=RJzYQhVXh9q8XeC81yvCyw&s=19

Other than the usual "we're confident if we play at our best we can win this, but not it's going to be a very tough test" type interviews, there is no 'talk' from the players or coaches.

Then you see these types of interactions

https://twitter.com/thistlerugbypod/status/1633397207113035776?t=Bu8VxRRiYUplPS6r68C9qQ&s=19

Where he's going on about the Scottish media talking up Huw Jones (too right) then points to a poll of the best 13 in the world that was made by a South African podcast!  

Of course social media as a rule attracts the nutters and extreme views. Literally any idiot can saw what they want (including me) but that doesn't meant that the silent majority agree with them.

But this is definitely a thing!

Your right @cakeordeath, Tom did tell Burkey that it's "certain people in journalism and punditry" that says that crap about us, he said most Irish fans and their team/management will be well aware of our threats.

To be fair to Tom, he was very complimentary towards us, though he did joke about their 2017 loss being down to us delaying their bus that day.

As for the poster who asking how Christie has being doing at Sarries, imho he's been OK nothing spectacular and certainly nothing dire.

Highland Shaun wrote:Your right @cakeordeath, Tom did tell Burkey that it's "certain people in journalism and punditry" that says that crap about us, he said most Irish fans and their team/management will be well aware of our threats.

It's possibly a tactic to unsettle the Scotland team and provide distraction. A bit like the delayed bus (was EOS worried we'd start the game without them?) which really shouldn't have phased a professional team. If so they really don't need to, they are a very strong team, playing very well and with remarkable strength in depth, they are so impressive to watch. 4 times out of 5 they'd win.

bsando wrote:Christie certainly looks like a promising player for Scotland and I would be happy to see him included for Ireland. I didn't see how he did for Saracens recently but he gets regular game time with them anyway. Certainly a player I'd like to see step up for Scotland.

Christie is a bit up and down. He’s fighting over the 7 jersey with Earl at Sarries so that’s not easy. Sometimes Christie is slotted in at 6 as a result.

2 weeks ago he put in a MOTM performance for sarries but last weekend he was totally anonymous in thier humping at the hands of Sale.

Earl and Christie are not fetchers, more a 6.5 which is fine. I think both suffer from being on the shorter side for an international BS and are not natural OS'. I am not 100% sure what Christie's point of difference would be in an international side. He is still developing.

Someone mentioned about Crosbie being considered and for Ireland, he might be the right sort of player as a 6.5 with size and seems to tackle himself into the ground. Ireland are strong in the clear-out so starting a fetcher is risky. If we have Turner, Ritchie and Tuipulotu in the defensive line, it is not like we are short of people to force Ireland to commit to the breakdown if they start leaving rucks short a man.

Cian Healy apparently is fit.

So apparently Gilchrist's case was done and dusted quickly, but it took so long to agree what games he was canned for that the decision was made after the Leinster games meaning that didn't count in his ban.

Bit of a shambles!

Not sure the Leinster game should have counted really, he was never going to play in it

I don't think we'll miss GG, Johnny Gray looked back to his best against France

BigGee wrote:Not sure the Leinster game should have counted really, he was never going to play in it

I don't think we'll miss GG, Johnny Gray looked back to his best against France

Of course not, but every other country uses that loophole!

RDW wrote:

BigGee wrote:Not sure the Leinster game should have counted really, he was never going to play in it

I don't think we'll miss GG, Johnny Gray looked back to his best against France

Of course not, but every other country uses that loophole!

We have higher moral standards in Scotland

Moral victory to us

tigertattie wrote:Moral victory to us

Don't mention the V word - you'll have an Irish podcast accusing us of arrogance soon

Pot Hale wrote:Cian Healy apparently is fit.  

From the Indo:

Sexton expected to come straight back into the side for the round four clash ahead of Ross Byrne, with Jamison Gibson-Park and Tadhg Furlong also primed to return. Garry Ringrose, Stuart McCloskey, Cian Healy and James Lowe trained yesterday, having sat out last week’s open session.

The IRFU is reporting a clean bill of health in the Ireland camp.

Pete330v2 wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:Cian Healy apparently is fit.  

From the Indo:

Sexton expected to come straight back into the side for the round four clash ahead of Ross Byrne, with Jamison Gibson-Park and Tadhg Furlong also primed to return. Garry Ringrose, Stuart McCloskey, Cian Healy and James Lowe trained yesterday, having sat out last week’s open session.

The IRFU is reporting a clean bill of health in the Ireland camp.

Crap.