Under 20s Rugby World Cup

https://www.world.rugby/tournaments/u20/championship

Live streams available at the above link

Though day so far for the Rugby Championship sides. NZ and Aus taken down convincingly by France and Ireland and SA and Arg losing to Italy and Georgia

Great win for Italy over SA

Please ignore: there's a post below, which explains why this is completely wrong.

The format says the top pair in each of the three pools will go through to the quarter finals, plus the best two third-placed finishers. Or, in other words, the last-placed teams in each pool, and the worst third-placed finisher will bow out. Current standings are:

Pool A
France - 10
Wales - 7
NZ - 5
Japan - 0

Remaining matches: France vs Wales, NZ vs Japan

Pool B
England - 8
Ireland - 8
Australia - 5
Fiji - 1

Remaining matches: England vs Australia, Ireland vs Fiji

Pool C
Argentina - 5
Italy - 5
South Africa - 5
Georgia - 4

Remaining matches: Argentina vs South Africa, Italy vs Georgia

Eight points might already be enough to see Ireland and England through, even if they get nothing from their last matches. Wales will be probably need something out of their game against France to be safe.

It looks like the worst third-place finisher will come from Pool C, but it's not certain. A losing side can still get two bonus points, so Argentina or South Africa could lose, and still finish on 7 points. A bonus point draw, as England and Ireland both managed, would give each three points but would leave their points difference unchanged.

If Australia get no points from the England match, then that would leave them on 5, which might not be enough if Pool C matches end in draws, or lots of losing bonus points.

The only safe bets right now are that France are through, and both Fiji and Japan will finish bottom of their pools, and go out.


Please ignore: there's a post below, which explains why this is completely wrong.

Its fairly likely that either SA or Argentina will come third because they have to play each other. Meaning Italy or Georgia will come second. It has been a good tournament for NH sides so far.

Im not sure many would have put SA, NZ and Aus all third in their groups with one game to play. Best teams so far have been Ireland, France and England.

Rugby Fan wrote:The format says the top pair in each of the three pools will go through to the quarter finals, plus the best two third-placed finishers. Or, in other words, the last-placed teams in each pool, and the worst third-placed finisher will bow out. Current standings are:

Pool A
France - 10
Wales - 7
NZ - 5
Japan - 0

Remaining matches: France vs Wales, NZ vs Japan

Pool B
England - 8
Ireland - 8
Australia - 5
Fiji - 1

Remaining matches: England vs Australia, Ireland vs Fiji

Pool C
Argentina - 5
Italy - 5
South Africa - 5
Georgia - 4

Remaining matches: Argentina vs South Africa, Italy vs Georgia

Eight points might already be enough to see Ireland and England through, even if they get nothing from their last matches. Wales will be probably need something out of their game against France to be safe.

It looks like the worst third-place finisher will come from Pool C, but it's not certain. A losing side can still get two bonus points, so Argentina or South Africa could lose, and still finish on 7 points. A bonus point draw, as England and Ireland both managed, would give each three points but would leave their points difference unchanged.

If Australia get no points from the England match, then that would leave them on 5, which might not be enough if Pool C matches end in draws, or lots of losing bonus points.

The only safe bets right now are that France are through, and both Fiji and Japan will finish bottom of their pools, and go out.

It's only Semi finals, and placing semi finals for the lower teams.

1-4

5-8

9-12

You fight for top sport and best 2nd.

9-12 fight against relegation.

the-goon2 wrote:

It's only Semi finals, and placing semi finals for the lower teams.

1-4

5-8

9-12

You fight for top sport and best 2nd.

9-12 fight against relegation.

Wow, thanks. Well that throws a cat amongst the pigeons.

Oh, yeah.

Right now it looks like France are set to win their pool and 1st seed.

Ireland and England are in good positions to qualify as 1st in group 2, and best 2nd.

Group 3 is bananas, anything can happen there. I can't see a best 2nd coming from there. So I expect the group winner to be a 3rd seed.

In the hunt for that best 2nd is NZ and Aus, if there are any slip ups from Ire or Eng, or if Aus beat Eng.

So will may have:

Fra v Ire/Eng (as best 2nd)
Ire/Eng (as 2nd seed) v group 3 winner.

Avoiding France would be desirable, they look deadly.

I can’t see Wales making top 4, we’d need to beat France with a bonus point and hope Eng/Ire don’t gain any points somewhere. I think the best 3 are France, Ireland and England.

NZ, SA and Aus don’t look like top 4 teams which is surprising. You can bet that next year there’ll be some type of U20s rugby championship.

I think the team to join the top 3 will end up being SA.

Agreed Mikey.

In other news check out the Italy captains inspiring speech

https://youtu.be/1ZC0kO5f5cQ

I believe Ireland beat France in the 6N but on current form, you’d have to think France are favourites for the tournament by some margin. I’m sure Ireland won’t mind not being favourites, could be those two in the final unless they’re due to meet in the ‘semi’ play-offs?

I watched the highlights of France v NZ as best I could, whilst Wales were not playing overly well v Japan. The French have at least one big centre and one winger that will cause Wales havoc, before you even factor in the packs. Scary.

Japan did look half decent against us, until their captain had his brain fart. Given our NZ result is now in perspective a bit, I worry for our youngsters.

Australian coach Nathan Grey expressed a good deal of frustration after a disciplinary panel suspended two Irish players, indicating they should have received red cards. Rory Telfer got a yellow card in the 78th minute for his tackle, so it probably didn't influence who won, as Ireland were leading 23-10 at the time, and the player left the pitch for the rest of the match. However, the incident with James McNabney in the 35th minute wasn't even penalized at the time, and could have seen Australia playing a 14 man Ireland for 45 minutes.

McNabney, playing number 6, was chasing a box kick. You can see the passage of play from the 56:35 mark in the full match video below. The Australian player collects the kick, sets himself, and McNabney tackles him too high. The South African commentator saw it at the time. It seems like the officials got distracted by a tackle in the air moments later, where there was no foul play. It doesn't look as if the Australians raised the incident with the referee.



https://www.rugby.com.au/news/its-a-disgrace-junior-wallabies-coach-grey-blows-up-after-several-costly-incidents-in-irish-defeat-202372

Terrible news. Greig Oliver, who played scrum half for Scotland, and worked for Munster, has died in an accident out in South Africa. He was there to see his son, Jack, who is playing with Ireland U20s.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/unspeakable-tragedy-munster-rugby-coach-greig-oliver-dies-in-paragliding-accident-in-cape-town/a1328480053.html

Rugby Fan wrote:Terrible news. Greig Oliver, who played scrum half for Scotland, and worked for Munster, has died in an accident out in South Africa. He was there to see his son, Jack, who is playing with Ireland U20s.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/unspeakable-tragedy-munster-rugby-coach-greig-oliver-dies-in-paragliding-accident-in-cape-town/a1328480053.html

Yes it hasnt been a great week for the under 20s. Two St Michaels students also died in the last couple of days in seperate incidents on the Greek island of Ios. They would have been friends with a number of the current squad. The mood in camp is likely very somber.

Greig Oliver was a lovely, lovely man. Warm, friendly, full of passion for the game and for coaching.

When I was about 16 he coached me once or twice at regional level in Scotland, and I feel lucky to have met him.

I hope his family are OK.

Terrible news, I hope the support and condolences the rugby community is giving right now helps them, every little helps.

I haven’t seen much of England but their 1 and 8 look good, and all their Welsh players look good too obviously. The best runner up looks set to come from this group.

Collapse2005 wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:Terrible news. Greig Oliver, who played scrum half for Scotland, and worked for Munster, has died in an accident out in South Africa. He was there to see his son, Jack, who is playing with Ireland U20s.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/unspeakable-tragedy-munster-rugby-coach-greig-oliver-dies-in-paragliding-accident-in-cape-town/a1328480053.html

Yes it hasnt been a great week for the under 20s. Two St Michaels students also died in the last couple of days in seperate incidents on the Greek island of Ios. They would have been friends with a number of the current squad. The mood in camp is likely very somber.

So much must be going through their heads.  Rugby is well and truly secondary to these real life situations.
That said, the players that put on the jersey and went out today played admirably and showed themselves to be a true squad. A lot of character emerged from that display.

The English should have insisted that Ireland play yet another match in that mud bowl of a pitch yet again. They got an extra game on the (relatively) dry and runnable pitch compared to Ireland to let them run up points difference but still the green emerged.

Georgia!

Ireland seal top spot and most likely 2nd seeds behind France.

NZ need to beat JP by 67 points to overtake England into best 2nd. if it works on points difference as the 1st tie breaker.

Arg vs RSA is a shootout for 1st in group 3, although not winning by enough could mean Georgia stay top and qualify for the semi finals!

Ire v Geo/RSA/ARG
Fra v Eng/NZ

let's be honest, Wales are getting pumped.

It started off as a good contest, then we throw an interception!

Anyone noticed this year how most forward packs weigh just about as much as the seniors? Wales lagging behind a bit as we haven’t produced good props in recent years.

France down a man but still putting points past Wales, they’re really impressive. The review upgraded the yellow to red. I thought it was just a yellow tbh.

Wales getting smoked. 24-0 after 22 mins. France have a red card though (upgraded from yellow by the TMO).

the-goon2 wrote:NZ need to beat JP by 67 points to overtake England into best 2nd.

First half finished 38-12 to NZ. They will surely have been told what they need to do in the second half. 79-12 would give NZ better points difference than England, so it will likely come down to Japan's willingness to stay in the fight, and get some scores of their own.

Japan were leading halfway through that first half when they had a ruck on their goal line, and the referee spotted a NZ hand in contact the ball when it was in touch. He awarded a try, and that seemed to take the wind out the Japanese sails. England need them to stay resolute, and hope the other results go their way.

Rugby Fan wrote:

the-goon2 wrote:NZ need to beat JP by 67 points to overtake England into best 2nd.

First half finished 38-12 to NZ. They will surely have been told what they need to do in the second half. 79-12 would give NZ better points difference than England, so it will likely come down to Japan's willingness to stay in the fight, and get some scores of their own.

Japan were leading halfway through that first half when they had a ruck on their goal line, and the referee spotted a NZ hand in contact the ball when it was in touch. He awarded a try, and that seemed to take the wind out the Japanese sails. England need them to stay resolute, and hope the other results go their way.

To be honest, If I am read things correctly, even if we get through we would end up playing France in the next round and they could really embarrass us.

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:Wales getting smoked.  24-0 after 22 mins.  France have a red card though (upgraded from yellow by the TMO).

And they’ve still dominated every facet of play.

I think Jones needed to hook the front-row in the first half. Our props can’t scrum and Scarfe wasn’t throwing that well. At least if you make changes it’s a chance to influence the ref at scrum time…

Cumbrian wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:

the-goon2 wrote:NZ need to beat JP by 67 points to overtake England into best 2nd.

First half finished 38-12 to NZ. They will surely have been told what they need to do in the second half. 79-12 would give NZ better points difference than England, so it will likely come down to Japan's willingness to stay in the fight, and get some scores of their own.

Japan were leading halfway through that first half when they had a ruck on their goal line, and the referee spotted a NZ hand in contact the ball when it was in touch. He awarded a try, and that seemed to take the wind out the Japanese sails. England need them to stay resolute, and hope the other results go their way.

To be honest, If I am read things correctly, even if we get through we would end up playing France in the next round and they could really embarrass us.

I think England will still give France a game. Japan are a half decent team though, it’ll be sad if they get relegated. You can’t deny the work they’ve done to grow rugby in their country over the last few years, love to see it.

mikey_dragon wrote:

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:Wales getting smoked.  24-0 after 22 mins.  France have a red card though (upgraded from yellow by the TMO).

And they’ve still dominated every facet of play.

I think Jones needed to hook the front-row in the first half. Our props can’t scrum and Scarfe wasn’t throwing that well. At least if you make changes it’s a chance to influence the ref at scrum time…

It was a shame for the TH Hire, as he was good off the bench last time out but to put him up against that French pack was a step too far for me. H was playing in the under 18s & drafted in to the under 20s on the back of his performances.

Based on what I’ve seen over the tournament, our props won’t be getting a pro contract.

mikey_dragon wrote:Based on what I’ve seen over the tournament, our props won’t be getting a pro contract.

Props mature at different rates. Most male props aren't fully developed physically until their mid 20s, but if a U20s tournament happens to have some front rows who are early developers, it can make for some unbalanced games. Cut them a bit of slack!

That said, I am interested to see how the England front row goes against the French pack. They have all looked very good in the loose but have been a bit more up and down at scrum time.

Poorfour wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Based on what I’ve seen over the tournament, our props won’t be getting a pro contract.

Props mature at different rates. Most male props aren't fully developed physically until their mid 20s, but if a U20s tournament happens to have some front rows who are early developers, it can make for some unbalanced games. Cut them a bit of slack!

That said, I am interested to see how the England front row goes against the French pack. They have all looked very good in the loose but have been a bit more up and down at scrum time.

Usually U20s is a good measure of where a young player is, I can’t picture ours (in that position) kicking on. The top teams have guys ready for pro rugby at age 20. Previous teams for Wales actually had good prop forwards that dominated the opposition, some of them have struggled with the pro game.

That said there are some later developers, thinking about Domachowski and Assirati in our current World Cup training squad.

I think for some reason we've had a generation of props who were ready unusually early - possibly because they are the first generation to have come through proper professional academies but going up against players who didn't have that early development.

One of the first props to be ready for primetime as a teenager was Joe Marler - but he's now in his 30s so pretty much every active prop in the game has had that academy background, and I suspect we're reverting to the more normal pattern of players needing a few more years to develop the strength and wiles for top level scrummaging.

Interestingly, the women's game is quite different. Most female internationals are getting their debuts in their teens or very early 20s, including props like Hannah Botterman and Sisilia Tuipolotu. I think that's probably a function of the newness of women's pro rugby coupled with shorter playing careers and girls reaching their physical peak earlier than boys.

The Welsh props can’t really develop at the moment. You can see what happens to teams, when they have to rush players in (like Reynolds, Coleman and even Brown at the Dragons). They need the regular games. I still don’t think the Welsh Premiership is quite there yet, but hopefully may improve with the proposed set up next year and with pro teams facing budget cuts.

I do find it funny sometimes when academies get criticised for trying to breed gym bunnies, when our youngsters have to face big boys like this though. We just don’t really breed big forwards any more. The ones we do seem to be big rather than athletic then. I know that players need to play to develop their techniques scrummaging etc, but they also can’t be thrown straight into games either. Wales desperately need to find a way to bridge the gap at all levels. Not easy though.

England play France in the semi final 6.00 Sunday. England are definitely up against it, having been hammered by France in the 6 Nations this year and just about creeping into the semi finals. I am not expecting much but I live in hope. It is apparently screening live on Sofascore,

Aus turning over NZ wasn’t a result I expected. Hopefully we beat Georgia, wouldn’t like to be playing a wounded ABs team.

God the ref is comically biased toward SA in this under 20 match.

I haven’t watched much of it but Ireland look pretty good.

Georgia steamrolled Wales in the scrum and maul as expected, but it finishes 21 - 40 to Wales. Aus up next for 5th place.

Good start by England after their fans wrote themselves off.

England smashing France. Possibly a bit of a surprise but France are also a bit over hyped.

Collapse2005 wrote:England smashing France. Possibly a bit of a surprise but France are also a bit over hyped.

Not sure, they’re the best France u20 I’ve seen and probably weren’t playing their best at times during the pool stage. They even started this game well, until England got into gear.

No doubt they are very good but not convinced they are significantly better than Ireland and England. Chessum has been brilliant for England. Bracken has a nice pass too.

They’re good but I don’t doubt they could crumble at some point, it’s what the French do.

Doing well at half time, I just don't see us living with the physicality.

Bad start from France but he was 100% in front of the kick off.

Stream has fallen over as England are sticking a kick deep into French territory.

And it picks up with France in the lead! No idea how we got here.

France in control of the game now. I’d have liked the TMO to look at whether Carnduff was on the ball carrier as Chessum claimed, but that YC has been very costly for England

Clear penalty at the line-out there, the French player grabbed the English player's arm, clear to everyone but the referee apparently. I'm not sure it would have mattered though, France just too big, strong and skilful for us this time.

It was alright, key moment.