Now youre talking Graham Henry...

Recent posting has Henry looking back instead of forwards for this years World cup.

http://www.allblacks.com/news/16468/All-Blacks-to-focus-on-history-and-rivals

The lessons to be learned are all there.

Hopefully he'll find the need to match the passion and exuberance of the French when the chips are down

Hopefully he'll find the need to adapt when the decisions arent going his way can be covered with back up plans and personnel.

Hopefully he'll find that the inactivity on attack and inadequacies on defence from 30-60 minutes by the AB's is whats caused most of the pain.

Hopefully he'll find the need to set a high standard of intensity, pace and skill to match what has won the only event for the team so far.

But mostly hopefully he'll find a way of getting the team through to the end, with his usual stubborn determination and humility intact, doing it the AB way.

Here's.......hoping...

Reading what Graham Henry as said is that the Abs are going to be looking back to find out what happend?

Maybe it is because that the Abs took it for "GRANTED" that because they have been the best/most consistant team in terms of winning games that all they had to do was just turn up.

The RWC, IMHO, is a (blank sheet)What you did before the RWC interms of how you played(how many games you have won/lost) goes out of the window.

Always repect the team you are playing against.

"What you did before the RWC interms of how you played(how many games you have won/lost) goes out of the window" perhaps maj... except when it come to choking it seems.. That seems to be a template for the AB's for some people.

Posted the article mainly as an observation, not as another AB hype thing.

Henry is starting his mind games again- looking for motivational aspects to the rest of the year.

Personally I like his approach to the game, the way he does things transparently, speaks his mind out in the open, and believe he has no hidden agenda when it comes to this sort of thing.

He may not come out with some stuff, but what he does come out with is worth sharing.... he being the master jedi and all...

Oh dear. It's starting to play on their minds.

Do you think that they could get the whole crowd on the pitch to do the haka for the final?

Taylorman how confident is the average New Zealand fan that you will win it on home soil is there any niggly doubt that something could go wrong.
And if you don't win it this time could that possibly have a negative effect on the game in New Zealand sponsorship crowds etc.

I can't speak for the other Kiwis but I've gone past caring what the heck we do before cups we always screw it up. So I've kind of resigned myself to being in a foul mood come October and having my missus avoid me like the plague (which doesn't happen as often as you'd think).

Majestic can't speak for Henry but regarding thinking all we need to do is turn up to win, none of my (sane) friends nor I ever had that philosophy. Sure we think we're the best team in the world most of the time, because without arrogance we are, but test rugby is a matter of inches and we are invariably only a couple inches from the next teams. Being able to annihilate every other team when we turn it on clouds that fact, and teams's surges in performance during Cups usually overtake ours hence the results being what they are.

Call me Jacques la Fataliste, but I'm just waiting for the whole thing to be derailed! Talk about pessimism I know. Hopefully I'll get better once the thing starts!

Cymroglan I dont think confident is the word. We're all just carrying on doing our thing. This team is no better than the 2007 or 95 one in many respects and simply because the WC hasnt been played yet theres a natural apprehension.

At times I'm in the same boat as disney and many Kiwis will have differing opinions that I reckon change depending on the mood theyre in!

Ive resigned to thinking we may lose any one of those three knockouts as its happened many times before when it was thought unimaginable at the time, so I'm prepared for that. Most Kiwis are I think- especially those who were around when we won it last.

Will it have a negative affect on sponsorship, crowds etc? Absolutely not. Rugby's big business here and life goes on. I'm actually looking forward to a big cleanout- players and coaches alike though Henry will be a hard act to follow in my opinion. I think he's the best coach I've ever known.

Its good seeing all the new players come through, new energy, new challenges etc... next years going to be great.

I think we all feel like 'Lets get this one in the bag and out of the way so we can get on with it'

But man am I looking forward to the whole event. all the visitors, rugby this and that in almost every town with a rugby field. Heaven for the rugby mad amongst us.

What Henry is talking about in a veiled way is using the perceived injustice of the past as a motivational tool.

Think about 2007 and 1995 and overcome the unfair obstacles as well as the fair ones.

NZ have never taken RWC victory for granted, and switching to conservative rugby now would be fatal. NZ need to do what they do best, hopefully avoidcrucial injuries, food poisoning and green and gullible English refs, but for the love of all that is sacred, let's not play a fullback at center.

I'm hoping we will win it but am scared poohless we wont.
If a person loves rugby you don't give up on it just because you don't win. Not because I rate the RWC highly but because I'm sick of the silly choking talk.

Grey, Conrad Smith is injured (as he is now) who would you play at centre? We don't have many fit good specialist centres really.

And now for the loyalty statements- was waiting for this...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/rugby-world-cup/5149815/Henrys-plan-for-World-Cup-call-me-loyal

RWC`s are a blank canvas every side starts equal.Graham Henry has made several comments.He want`s clarification in the tackle ball area rulings by the Refs.He knows his squad injuries permitting,has identified back ups in areas 7 and 10.These players will be given game time in 3Ns[not the dreaded rotation policy].Unlike 2007 he has a good established captain,a strong experinced squad[injury permitting] and will be doing some fine tuning.

TheGreyGhost wrote:What Henry is talking about in a veiled way is using the perceived injustice of the past as a motivational tool.

Think about 2007 and 1995 and overcome the unfair obstacles as well as the fair ones.

NZ have never taken RWC victory for granted, and switching to conservative rugby now would be fatal. NZ need to do what they do best, hopefully avoidcrucial injuries, food poisoning and green and gullible English refs, but for the love of all that is sacred, let's not play a fullback at center.

Can not help it can you GG, food poisoning indeed, no evidence or proof but don't let that get in the way of a good excuse why you were beaten fairly. You had 80 minutes to put France to bed but again beaten fairly on the day.

In all my time in NZ and discussing rugby with countless people never once do you hear anything about food poisoning, Barnes gets a bit of stick but does not take away from the fact youhad 80 minutes to beat them. Suck it is son, accept defeat with dignity.

No evidence or proof correct, but to be honest most Kiwis don't give a stuff if it was deliberate or not. Just disappointed the team were sick. I remember seeing some of them yak on the sideline so I'm satisfied NZ weren't 100. Sucks because it would have been nice for SA to have their fairytale without controversy.

I took the defeat with dignity but I'm still absolutely filthy on it. Bet Graham Henry is too! Took cohones to congratulate the French in their dressing room afterwards. Good on him.

I said "food poisoning" I didn't say "poisoned". The evidence is the 10 green ABs vomiting throughout the game. I thought they put up a pretty good fight given the circumstances.

I didn't take the French defeat with dignity. I think it would be a disservice to the game to do so. To have such an inexperienced referee make such a mess of such an important game is something that any rugby fan should be sick about. POB should have been removed from his post following the debacle. And Barnes make-peace performance for NZ v Ireland last year did nothing to improve his status in my eyes.

TheGreyGhost wrote:I didn't take the French defeat with dignity

Yes, we've noticed.

SafeAsMilk wrote:

TheGreyGhost wrote:I didn't take the French defeat with dignity

Yes, we've noticed.

As I've said. Any true fan of rugby will see that day as the travesty that it was. Those indulging in schadenfreude should see themselves for what they are and remember how bitterly they screamed like little babies themselves when say, a quick lineout was allowed illegally, or someone's try was disallowed for an alleged failure to release the ball when "tackled" or foot in touch.

Shxx Happens - Get on with it - We never waste much time in Wales over "Spilt Milk"

RubyGuby wrote:Shxx Happens - Get on with it - We never waste much time in Wales over "Spilt Milk"

Surely you jest sir. I can't get in a cab in Wales without the conversation going...

"Where to?"
<response>
"Ah - you are from New Zealand?" - pause "You're not related to Andy Haden are you?"

SafeAsMilk wrote:

TheGreyGhost wrote:I didn't take the French defeat with dignity

Yes, we've noticed.

I think ultimately, in life, to devote so much time to talking about something that happened in 2007 is worrying. At some point do you not just need to let it go?

I get the same too. Still gotta stay onside with the Welsh you know. As a Kiwi living in Ireland that's the closest place I can go to that sells velcro gloves When they hark back to the good old days in the 70s, any mention of them not beating NZ during said decade gets you kicked out of the shop.

Grey - Do you have any American ancestry?? and don't get me started about Andy Haydn as I was in the East Terrace at that game - Oops, just slipped on some spilt milk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

disneychilly wrote:I get the same too. Still gotta stay onside with the Welsh you know. As a Kiwi living in Ireland that's the closest place I can go to that sells velcro gloves When they hark back to the good old days in the 70s, any mention of them not beating NZ during said decade gets you kicked out of the shop.

I can't recall how many circular conversations I've gotten into where some avid Welsh rugby ran talks my ears off about how Wales "dominated" New Zealand for 30 years between some random interval of time when the two teams turn out to have not played each other (1923-1953 or something). About how Wales won in 1902 or something, and about how the Barbarians victory over NZ in 197-something was the only real game of rugby played, and the victory was entirely down to the Welsh players in the side that day. They always seem to conclude by saying "bring them over, and we'll beat them". Sigh.

Milk. Spilt. Everywhere.

Hahaha and all it takes to rile the Kiwi up is a date and a missing team when LAST they won the World Cup. Well I say world cup, it was the first one in NINETEEN EIGHTY SEVEN and the best team did not even play in the competition. PLUS it was at home.

Must make GG's skin crawl to see England being in the final twice since then and winning it once.

Spilt poisoned milk or so the accusations go innit GG.

Yup, will bang on about Haden all day but not Bob Deans' try in 1905 which would've given NZ a Grand Slam at the first attempt...

I had a tape of 'The Good, The Bad And The Rugby' from NZ's 1989 tour of Wales and Ireland and was flabbergasted at how adamant the Neath supporters were that they'd beat NZ. All well and good talking yourselves up, bring it on hey, but jeepers it seemed a foregone conclusion to them despite NZ handing Wales' butts to them the two years beforehand.

Oh to be honest Welshjohn it's the only thing that riles NZers up.

After seeing the Cavaliers tour I don't think SA were 20 points better than the rest of the world-something they'd have to do to match NZ in that tournament. If anything Wales took their spot in the semis...

Fact is you will have to live with some the rugby world thinking different. Let's face it 1991 was the first real world cup.

welshjohn369 wrote:Hahaha and all it takes to rile the Kiwi up is a date and a missing team when LAST they won the World Cup. Well I say world cup, it was the first one in NINETEEN EIGHTY SEVEN and the best team did not even play in the competition. PLUS it was at home.

Must make GG's skin crawl to see England being in the final twice since then and winning it once.

Spilt poisoned milk or so the accusations go innit GG.

Winning the RWC in 1987 and being the #1 ranked side in the world 94% of the time since rankings began has to be less skin-crawling than being a Welsh fan and waiting since NINETEEN FIFTY THREE for a single victory over NZ.

welshjohn369 wrote:Fact is you will have to live with some the rugby world thinking different. Let's face it 1991 was the first real world cup.

The Saffas didn't play in that one either mate.

South Africa weren't at the 1991 world cup either.

"Winning the RWC in 1987 and being the #1 ranked side in the world 94% of the time since rankings began has to be less skin-crawling than being a Welsh fan and waiting since NINETEEN FIFTY THREE for a single victory over NZ."

Now to some extent i'm with you on that GG - However it's all about expectations and whilst Wales after peaking to a creditable 3rd in 1987 have perhaps underachieved in world cups since. This however, has to some extent coincided with the worse period in welsh rugby (1991-2004) when 20-30 of our best players went North. Compare this with the rightful expectations of a nation who had dominated the number 1 spot 94% of the time since ratings began and you might want to reappraise who's skin really needs to crawl. The All Blacks ermain the barometer for all aspiring nations, however i would argue that your RWC record due to expectations is at least on a par with Wales and probably worse when you factor in the 94%

"whilst Wales after peaking to a creditable 3rd in 1987"

Rankings didn't exist in 1987, so I'm afraid that Wales were never third.

"however i would argue that your RWC record due to expectations is at least on a par with Wales"

No, NZ manage to get out of their group and beat Fiji.

Ah...Welsh fans, pushing the boundaries on delusion since 1953.

GG - Careful, you are losing your poise and you're usually pretty good on these threads - I'll try again - We were 3rd in the 1987 RWC - that's NZ 1st, France 2nd and Wales 3rd - I know it's hard to believe but that's how it was after you managed to sneak passed us in the semis with a 4 try burst in the last 2 minutes.

Seriously GG - going on expectations do you think you have performed better than Wales? - Our expectations after the 3rd place would have been 1/4's and out every time which we have failed to do. I would have expected 3 RWC's for NZ by now.

TheGreyGhost wrote:"whilst Wales after peaking to a creditable 3rd in 1987"

Rankings didn't exist in 1987, so I'm afraid that Wales were never third.

"however i would argue that your RWC record due to expectations is at least on a par with Wales"

No, NZ manage to get out of their group and beat Fiji.

Ah...Welsh fans, pushing the boundaries on delusion since 1953.

Wales were 3rd in the World Cup .

Why 1953? You are not the main foe of Wales, that remains England.

Reminder folks, keep it civil and keep the personal insults out of it.

Another reminder folks - If you're out golfing tomorrow afternoon take your waterproofs as the forecast is dire.

RubyGuby wrote:Another reminder folks - If you're out golfing tomorrow afternoon take your waterproofs as the forecast is dire.

Think people judge NZ on the overall record instead of form leading into a WC in which case they were only outright dead set bang on favourites in 07. Usually the year beforehand isn't great. It's the day NZ aren't counted as among the very top of serious contenders that they'd really start worrying.

Wonder how dissed the 91 Wallabies feel about it. People try and dismiss 87 as not counting but Aussie kind of sneak under the radar. I'd assume Phil Kearns would retort by inviting you to his barbie.

welshjohn369 wrote:

TheGreyGhost wrote:"whilst Wales after peaking to a creditable 3rd in 1987"

Ah...Welsh fans, pushing the boundaries on delusion since 1953.

Why 1953? You are not the main foe of Wales, that remains England.

Yes. Advisable to set your sights lower like this.

Why 1953? Man, considering you thought SA were at the '91 RWC, and now don't know the last time Wales managed a victory over NZ? Are you sure you didn't accidentally stray in to the rugby forum whilst looking for somewhere else?

I am well aware of the significance of 1953 and I am well aware that I got the date wrong.

1. I have the match programme from 1953 along with a few 1000 other's.

2. Nothing to do with idiotic advice either. Just as you consider Australia your main rivals, Wales consider England as ours. Setting standards lower? England have been in the last 2 world cup finals!! NZ have not.

NZ used to come along every 4 or 5 years or so and it was an occasion just like when S Africa and Aussie came to Wales. Now it's an annual event and although nice nothing to compete with the best competition in the world the 6 Nations.

Rugby wise we consider SA the main rivals. There'll always be an ANZAC edge to being neighbours but SA is the only country that comes close to our head-to-head stats (63% to our 75% last time I looked). Add that to them having a winning record against us before apartheid and not losing a series until 1956 and you see why we covet victory over the Boks over any other. Lions included.

Best comp in the world? Haha. Kiwis take that with a grain of salt as 6N sides have beaten them a total of 21 times. Think the HC for structure is, but the 3N have usually the top three teams ranking wise so hard to go past that for quality. Add that to the NZ SA rivalry being the greatest in rugby and I see a winner there.

welshjohn369 wrote:

... the best competition in the world the 6 Nations.

You clearly weren't at the Wales v Ireland match this year. Direst game I've ever been to. Pity because the stadium, and the atmosphere were fantastic.

The 6N isn't even the best competition in the Northern Hemisphere IMO. The HEC has it in spades.

Kiwireddevil wrote:
The 6N isn't even the best competition in the Northern Hemisphere IMO. The HEC has it in spades.

Agree in FULL.

I defy anyone to sit and watch the majority of games in the 6N and say it's the best competition in the World.

Too many games like Ireland vs Wales, not enough like Ireland vs England. This year was riddled with basic and repeated mistakes by most teams in the competition, inconsistency, aimless play and games that were defined by errors rather than invention.

Any competition that features Italy versus Scotland then has a week off, kind of loses all credibility in my mind.

Notch wrote:I defy anyone to sit and watch the majority of games in the 6N and say it's the best competition in the World.

I think its the best competition in the world actually.....

No really I know the quality of the rugby is mediocre at times but I think for the rivalry and drama nothing tops it. I agree that the standard of Rugby in the HEC is much higher but I still think the 6N is the best

Best thing would be to have the Heineken Cup structure-only the best teams from Super Rugby and the Heineken Cup play. That competition would be a cracker.

Glad to see Argentina in the 3N. Will liven it up a bit and give those guys great exposure. Hope their domestic game can make some strides to help.

Why would you devalue the quality of super rugby teams by having them play Heineken cup teams?

disneychilly wrote:Best thing would be to have the Heineken Cup structure-only the best teams from Super Rugby and the Heineken Cup play. That competition would be a cracker.

Glad to see Argentina in the 3N. Will liven it up a bit and give those guys great exposure. Hope their domestic game can make some strides to help.

Who's dropping out if it's still called the 3N ?

More to the point, after Argentina move into the #4 spot in the IRB ladder, how many months will elapse before England field their first Argentinian?

Glad to see you've got your funny undies on Nottins.

Hence the classic riposte from Ghosty.