One cap wonders who missed out on playing for another country

I suppose the best known example in recent times is Isa Nacewa, who having played a single game for Fiji in a world cup match under the impression that it would not disqualfy him from playing for another country, subsequently discovered he was no longer eligible to represent NZ. Other examples include Tom Palmer of England (obviously more than one cap!), who thru a stint living and playing in Scotland played Scottish age-group rugby, but has since gone on to represent the country of his birth. Another interesting one that I didn't know about is Ryan Lamb, who seems unlikely to add to his tally of 5 England Saxons appearances, but is Scottish qualified - as an alternative to Dan Parks, how welcome would Lamb have been in the dark blue?

So, are there other similar instances of players with low numbers of caps at full international level or just A-level caps that you know of that you wish had been available for your country?

I'm sure the Welsh would've killed to get Regan King in their lineup!

Ben Blair had just 6 caps for the blacks

Filo Tiatia only had 2.

I’m sure the welsh selectors would have liked to have given them a run out at some stage in their careers.

Regan king and Nacawa are the obvious ones, i'd add scott hamilton, lefimi mafi (although not on current form) and paul warwick.

Doesn't paul Warwick have a really low number of caps for Aus, or else played for the sevens team or something?

Whoops sorry kiwi

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Doesn't paul Warwick have a really low number of caps for Aus, or else played for the sevens team or something?

That's it Pete, he only played for the 7's. Henike Van Der Merwe maybe, he has very few (if any) caps for the Sprinkboks but played against the Lions for the Emerging Boks.

Paul Steinmitz played 7 mins for AB. There was a time between Kevin Maggs and Gordon D'Arcy when he was the best 12 in Ireland.

To be honest getting the caps for New Zealand was probably a blessing, would TiaTia, King and Blair really want to be caught up in the chaos of the Welsh national team? They can just come here and get paid well and not have to much expected of them outside their regions.

Alyn,

The way the WRU has always been run and the Regions have been run (certainly when first formed) then I doubt some of the WQ players enjoy being involved in it all.

You could make an argument for Shane Geraghty and Nick Kennedy, both now out of the England picture with fleeting appearances, and yet both qualified to play for Ireland.

I don't think either would make the Ireland team, but I do think both would be in contention for the squad.

Wasn't Liam Botham capped by England to stop him playing for Wales ?

Schalk Brits only won 3 caps for the Springboks and would be eligible for England at the beginning of the 2012/13 season.

Have to say that of all the ones listed above Regan King is the one who the country concerned must have been most gutted as he was brilliant a couple of years ago.

Joe Maddock who was at Bath only got Maori caps but would have qualified easily. Probably not showy enough to push for a cap as a kiwi for England but scored a boat load of tries and was one of those players that supporters and fellow players really rated.

Ryan Lamb was fast tracked into the Saxons when it became clear that he may be eligible for Scotland. He wasn't in the original squad, dropped in at the end of a long season then sent straight back to his club and didn't play again.

Botham chose not to play for wales, as he was not welsh (in his opinion).

twoeightnine, Maddock did qualify for England. He's never had 7s, 'A' or full caps.

Enough about Tiatia, what is the main travesty is that he didn’t get more AB caps! He was one of my favourites when he played for Wellington and he should have gone to the WC in 99. In the fallout from the failed attempt to win the damn thing it was found out that the French employed dubious tactics (ball grabbing and gouging etc) to put the poor kittens off and Tiatia was picked for the 2000 French tour to specifically sort that out….and guess what, he didn’t even get picked for the French tests!!!

Travesty….justice for the Wellington One!

Mickado wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Doesn't paul Warwick have a really low number of caps for Aus, or else played for the sevens team or something?

That's it Pete, he only played for the 7's. Henike Van Der Merwe maybe, he has very few (if any) caps for the Sprinkboks but played against the Lions for the Emerging Boks.

any cap for the emerging boks against the lions wouldn't count. The only caps given on lions tours are for the tests (hence being called tests). he does have a cap for SA though, against wales in 2007. I wish he'd get his act together he was the most feared scrummager in SA when leinster signed him.

chewed_mintie wrote:Enough about Tiatia,

Sod that it's a travesty he had to retire!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OU8DYetTy8&feature=BFa&list=PLF0C42D2D06898355&index=21

He was such a bully
Watch the video at 48 seconds.

Alyn, absolutely brilliant!

Casey LuaLua top notch centre for the Crusaders never quite made it as an AB,
Bruce Reihana,and Regan King come to mind.
Used to be a standing joke one AB cap on your Cv then wait for the NH offers.
Many were very good for there adopted clubs.

How about the players who were previously qualified for another nation, not just residency qualified.

I think Andrew Blowers is a good example. David Smith for the Force, now Toulon got a 7s cap for NZ and now can't play for Samoa.

Puke aka Luke watson, by memory he played one test against Samoa.

Lesser known one would be Callum Bruce. Capped once i believe by the Junior AB's and then discarded when he couldve been the solution to scotlands problems at 12.

biltongbek wrote:Puke aka Luke watson, by memory he played one test against Samoa.

Yea watson has a cap, but i think he said something about looking down at the crest and wanting to vomit because of the "dutchmen" that run south african rugby so i'd say your not really missing out. although no.8 is surprisingly becoming an issue with the boks, spies seems to be all hype and kankowski will never be a world class 8. imo anyway

IBD, had forgotten about him, and there was me touting the lad like crazy just before he got capped at the IRB Asian Nations back in 08?

Well hopefully whilst we're over there for the World Cup, we can recruit a few more Calum Bruce's, John Leslie's and Glenn Metcalfe's for the cause! We should be telling them that Glasgow is a truly lovely place to live!

Riki Flutey who played for the Maori against the Lions and age group rugby for NZ only to discover he couldn't play for his rapidly adopted homeland Engla... oh no, whoops.

That's a refreshing new angle for you GG, oh no, wait, it isn't.

Its truly extraordinarily one eyed how Greyghost bangs on about England selecting a few Kiwis. Especially seeing as we select more of them than the Kiwi team do.

Sigh. Check the dedicated thread on this. The NZ training camp squad is named there, showing that only two of them are non NZ born, with Mils arriving in NZ when he was just two.

Two, that's right. The number of years that Flutey, Hape and Waldrom lived in England.

Duncan Bell, made sure he kept his house in Wales in order to keep his residency going. I believe he turned down a trip to Australia in 2003 so he wouldn't risk his chances of becoming welsh. But it turned out he had sat on the bench for England Saxons meant that he was not welsh qualified after all.

I just read that Pocock was born in Zimbabwe and qualified (before being capped) to play for South Africa.

If that's true, there's a missed trick and a half.

James O'Connor surely wins this thing hands down, though given he is playing for a top flight team instead of another top flight team, i think 'missed out' should become 'could have'.

I'm open to correction on the semantics, but i think he has one side of his family being South African, I think he himself was born in New Zealand, and I recall hearing that he had a Zimbabwean connection too. Not to mention his obvious Wallaby caps.

Doubtless I have all those connections all wrong, but having the ability to play for any of the 3Nations teams right off the bat must be something close to unique?! I beseech our SH friends to enlighten us as to any toher JO'Cs!

I don't know any other triple qualified players. Willie O only played for Australia because he went over there on tour with an NZ age group side, and Immigration wouldn't let him back into NZ as he was an overstayer

Quade Cooper is dual Aus/NZ qualified. There's over 500,000 NZers living in Aus these days, not really surprising that their rugby ranks are being swelled by Kiwis.

I think Thom Evans may have been triple qualified - certainly England and Scotland, and was born in either Zimbabwe or South Africa.

If my son was ever to make the grade (in any sport) then he qualifies for

Wales - Through Me

Scotland - Through Wife

England - Through Birth

Ireland - Through Grandparents

Jamie Heaslip could have played for Israel - if they had a rugby team, ROG could have played for the USA

Bedford

Better hope he's in a sport where he represents Team GB then, rather than having to choose, otherwise there will be a divorce (if he chooses Wales / Scotland) or disinheritance (England).

I like the fact that the welsh specialise in importing players with a few caps for their SH country to play for their regions, Blair, King, and Tiatia to name but a few. A strange thing really when the anglo emphasis is to get them here before they get the 1 or 2 caps. That's the welsh planning for you eh!

damngoodOvalball wrote:Its truly extraordinarily one eyed how Greyghost bangs on about England selecting a few Kiwis. Especially seeing as we select more of them than the Kiwi team do.

Wrong - of the current NZ training squad only 2 were born outside of NZ and one of them (Mils) arrived in NZ when he was 2.

Lets not let the facts get in the way of a well entrenched myth though eh ?!

Thom Evans was born in Zim so he was triple qualified.
To continue the Scottish/Zim link, Scot Gray was born in what was Salisbury, moved to Australia for a few years, then to England and then played for Scotland. So including residency he could have played for 4 countries!

I would have though using the grandparent rule that quite a few players could have qualified for multiple countries, or through moving around the world?

Chris Aston was born in Timaru and Ben Foden was born in the Bay of Islands, Martin Johnson is from Aokautere and Sir Clive Woodward himself was born in Te Atatu South, before all were identified by the self same programme that pinched Mils Muliaina, as being uttery too English to represent New Zealand, at which point they were hurriedly given new IDs and put on the first potato boat to blighty.

There, my English firends, is the secret shame that can't speak it's name.

It's out now. We can all move on.

They ship potatoes from New Zealand to the UK?

HammerofThunor wrote:They ship potatoes from New Zealand to the UK?

Yes but your lamb comes from Wales

I cannot believe no one has mentioned Rupeni Caucaunibuca he could have been the best player in the world in the early 2000's if he had held out for the All Blacks instead of playing for Fiji...

Super, to be honest with the way Caucau has consistantly performed (or not) as professional and experienced as the NZRFU at managing talented players, I dont think he would under any system have had the focus to exploit his undoubted talents, which is a crying shame for us fans of the game.

geoff998rugby wrote:

damngoodOvalball wrote:Its truly extraordinarily one eyed how Greyghost bangs on about England selecting a few Kiwis. Especially seeing as we select more of them than the Kiwi team do.

Wrong - of the current NZ training squad only 2 were born outside of NZ and one of them (Mils) arrived in NZ when he was 2.

Lets not let the facts get in the way of a well entrenched myth though eh ?!

No No you don't understand how devious we kiwis are. We poached their parents from the islands with the dubious excuse of providing more education and work opportunities. NZ's immigration policy is really just about increasing the PI gene pool all for the sake of AB rugby.

"There's over 500,000 NZers living in Aus these days, not really surprising that their rugby ranks are being swelled by Kiwis."

The biggest single drain on NZ rugby players by far is the number of young kids going to League in Oz. Henry wasasked the question about the player drain (the question leading to the NH impact).

Henrys answer was emphatic. League is swallowing up much of the learned rugby talent.

Isa Nacewa was never AB material when with the Blues regardless of whether he was qualified or not. Was simply not talked about in those circles.

Pat Lam. One All Black test in 1998.
Door closed on Samoa.

Isa Nacewa could of qualified for Ireland through residency.
If eligable now he would be on the Irish plane, for the WC, no question