What If (part 1)

I thought I'd create a few articles on what if (hypothetically) a result changed and how in your mind this would've altered the future of the certain boxer in question (as realistic as possible)

So for part 1 I thought I'd choose that infamous night in Tokyo 1990, let's say Tyson did what he was supposed too, he whacks Buster and retains his championship, in your mind what wouldve changed in Iron Mikes career, what fights ect..

My guess, he would've went into a multi million dollar fight with Holyfield in the fall of 1990, after dropping Holyfield early, I'd guess Tyson runs out of ideas and Holy finally catches up with him weathering some heavy storms, this as in 1997 proceeds in a immediate rematch, again Tyson finds out Holy has his number and Tyson takes time out, a Desiree Wasington incident somewhere along the lines happens, ending in some incarceration for Mike, he returns but the two defeats to Holy still haven't dissolved and he loses again without regain g the title maybes to a Bowe, Mercer or a Witherspoon.


How do you see it?

Tyson in 1990 beats Evander for me......Three years of ring rust had a big effect on Tyson's career...

Wasn't the same after the pen...

Do you think so Truss ?

So who stops Iron Mikes reign ? if that's the case is only incarceration in your opinion ?

I think Holyfield would have always had Tyson's number, regardless of when they met. People like to point out that Tyson hadn't been all that active prior to their 1996 bout, but conveniently forget that he was the red-hot favourite (most were tipping him for another reign of terror over the Heavyweight division), had just blitzed both the WBC and WBA belt holders and that Holyfield was, in the eyes of most, completely shot, and hadn't scored a significant win in three years.

By 1990, Tyson was throwing single shots (or, at the most, a couple) where he used to be throwing four or five in succession. He didn't have the frame nor the jab to keep Holyfield at a distance ala Bowe or Lewis, and I don't for one second think that he'd have blasted Holyfield out early. Once the fight goes past five or six rounds, Tyson's always a big underdog against Holyfield, for me.

I agree that a rematch would likely have materialized, and after another defeat (maybe on points) I agree that Tyson would have drifted further away from boxing - he was always going to self-destruct outside the ring at some stage.

I just think Buster showed the way and ..

A) Took the invincibility card away from Mike..

B) Took Mike's confidence away....

I don't know Tyson does self destruct no doubt so maybe Holy could have tried him again down the road or Bowe manages to control a more shopworn Tyson in 92 or something after Tyson nearly kills Foreman..

Bert cooper nearly had Holy's number!! If the ref doesn't jump in when he did... Cooper might have finished him..

Fancy Tyson in 90..

Tyson/ Foreman would've been fun, but I agree with Chris, Tyson was content on blasting folk out, I'd say he'd have his moments against Holy, but I see him unravelling when Holy begins to fire back if still there after half way.

Bert cooper nearly had Holy's number!! If the ref doesn't jump in when he did... Cooper might have finished him.

A statement that lacks logic.

Really...

Yes becauise Holy was given an 8 count due to being knocked down effectivly as the ropes held him up. Did you even see the fight?

The referee took a contentious decision to stop Cooper jumping on a dazed and disorientated fighter.....

Contentious as there are examples such as Bobby Czyz-Edwards where it's not always the case...and a fighter is allowed to tuck in..

Not when it is clear that the only thing stopping the fighter from falling to the canvas is the ropes!

I think the word you are looking for right now is SCHOOLED!

I have been schooled....which is why my opinion is so much better than yours!! 8)

I did not need to go to school to have the opinion I have of you TRASHMAN.

Very mature...

Cut the personal stuff and stick to the issues.

I've not been personal.......

I don't think he likes me......and I thought everybody did!! 8)

I didn't mean to suggest that you had been, Truss. I was referring to ONETWO's TRASHMAN remark.

If Tyson beats Douglas because Douglas performs worse than the reality, then it surely wouldn't change much. Same Tyson, same form, etc etc.

If Tyson beats Douglas because he performs BETTER than he did in reality...then it'd be a better Tyson who moved on from that fight.

Hard to say and pointless to boot.

One two, oh dear off.

Stop the personal stuff

Been called worse...

Usually by the Wife on a "GOOD" day!!!!

It wouldn't change much.....

Let's not forget Tyson lost three years of his prime!!! speed and reflexes down the pan...

Credible to suggest a 90/91 Tyson would be sharper than a 94 version...

But you could be right Balti....as to the outcome....who knows..

Sorry windy.

I think that Curry should have stepped up a weight before he signed to face Honey. Curry had problems making weight it was known to everyone but he was 1 of 2 legitimate undisputed champions at the time and wanted to keep it that way. Overlooked Honey who whooped him and fell for the hype that surrounded him becoming the next Leonard.

Coincidently Leonard is partly to blame for Curry's demise. The cobra should never of taken advice from him.

Got the right thread Mate!!

No probs, ONETWO.

Just didn't want it to escalate. Besides, this has the makings of a terrific debate.

HumanWindmill wrote:No probs, ONETWO.

Just didn't want it to escalate. Besides, this has the makings of a terrific debate.

Cheers Windy, not just a good rapper you know sir.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:It wouldn't change much.....

Let's not forget Tyson lost three years of his prime!!! speed and reflexes down the pan...

Credible to suggest a 90/91 Tyson would be sharper than a 94 version...

But you could be right Balti....as to the outcome....who knows..

Thing is Truss-and the reason I've little patience for these 'what if's-is that if Tyson beat Douglas, would that have a knock-on effect with regards to the whole Miss Washington issue? Could it be that Tyson retained focus and avoided distractions because he wasn't having to deal with a loss? In which case he avoids prison, avoids ring-rust and the psychological meltdown, and is still carrying his confidence with his '0'...

If we're to suppose that Tyson had won, it would have to be for a reason, and if that was because Tyson had performed better than Douglas's performance, then he'd have been a different fighter after the fight than the reality. Just too many variables.

Well no ones asking you to contribute Balti, garner your patience elsewhere son if that's case.

Eric Da Cat wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:No probs, ONETWO.

Just didn't want it to escalate. Besides, this has the makings of a terrific debate.

Cheers Windy, not just a good rapper you know sir.

Never doubted it, mate.

Eric Da Cat wrote:Well no ones asking you to contribute Balti, garner your patience elsewhere son if that's case.

If you post a question on a public forum what did you expect? Still, if it keeps you from writing another 'rap', then I'm grateful of small mercies.

In my opinion there are two reasons that buster was able to beat tyson:

1) He utilised all the key elements required to beat Iron Mike (even a 'prime' version). He was not even slightly intimidated, he boxed tall behind a solid, hurtful jab and caught Tyson on his way in with big shots until tyson was worn down enough to be taken out.

2) The tyson of 1990 was already on the slide. His personal life was out of control, he'd changed trainers, was not as committed to training as he once was and in the ring was neglecting his skills and relying too much on looking for power shots - he'd become predictable, almost one dimensional.

If he'd somehow got past buster that night I'd still say he'd have lost to Holyfield. I've always maintained that Holy had tysons number and would've beaten him far more often than not. Riddick Bowe was also at his (short lived) peak around '91 - '92, and with his strong jab and physical strength I'd have fancied him to do a buster on tyson at that time. Lennox Lewis would also have beaten him, although not as comfortably as the late '90's version of Lewis would have. Essentially going to prison in my opinion saved a sliding tyson from getting exposed against a cluster of opponents with the tools to handle him better than most of the tomato cans he'd already met had.

Careful Eric is a Minister...God's wrath knows no bounds!!!!!

BALTIMORA wrote:

Eric Da Cat wrote:Well no ones asking you to contribute Balti, garner your patience elsewhere son if that's case.

If you post a question on a public forum what did you expect? Still, if it keeps you from writing another 'rap', then I'm grateful of small mercies.

Well if I seen an article on the forum which I had little interest in, i wouldn't bother replying, I guess that's just me, anyway that's your opinion mate, and fairpay but don't knock the rap youre in a very small minority if that's the case.

All da best

Eric if you look at my response you'll see that I gave reasons for why I don't often find these scenarios particularly interesting. There's a huge mass of variables which can emanate from one little catalyst, and taking that into account if find it nigh-on impossible for any satisfactory solution to be reached. If this and if that, and when all said and done none of the speculation and supposition changes the slightest little thing in the real world.

Mad Mikey he comeout smokin'
But Da Real Deal he be a pokin'
and da uppercuts be stokin da baddest man be moanin
But da ref he jes say play on;
Holy Man aint shy and he use his bonce
to butt poor Mad Mikey,and not just da once.
Holy Man get da nod in da both year
Be 1990 ,da time for da Guru,
or be in 96 with his tats of da SunTzu.

In reply to Truss's mention of the Cooper Holyfield fight I think Holyfield was a little lucky there as I seem to remember there was no standing eight count in rules for that fight yet the Ref gave one and allowed Holy field to recover and eventually win.

A lot depends on how he beats Douglas, were he to blow him away he may have had the view reinforced that he could get away with the partying and corner cutting and gone into a Holyfield fight poorly prepared and against that version of Holy being less than 100% would have been a pretty grim place to find yourself in and have to think Holy hands him a beating.

However were the Douglas fight close this could perhaps have served as the wake up for Mike and he could have knuckled down and put the graft in, am not sure he ever beats Holy but may have been interesting. However think Mike was just off the rails by this point without the right support team to reign him in and don't think it would have served as the wake up call because lets be honest the signs of regression were there before Douglas and none thus far had served to get him to focus.