A tribute to the British Ugly ducklings!!

These are fighters that over achieved and have got world class or near to world class accomplishments to show for their careers but are mainly forgotten...

Naturally since I've only been here since 89 I am biased towards that time onward but kudos to these guys..

Duke Mckenzie
Steve Robinson
Dennis Andries
Pat Cowdell
Kirkland Laing
Tony Sibson....

Any more just as worthy or more worthy...never written about who deserve a mention??? please add them..

Paul Hodkinson as well

Is it that time already?

Union why do you bother..go away..

Hoko is a good call........Dave mcauley worth a shout.

Colin McMillan

You think mcmillan worthy?????

Thought he underachieved!!!!!! as did pardon me for saying it Michael Watson and Hero9l Graham..

Ricky Burns

I don't get the ugly duckling reference though.

Mills and Downes are by and large forgotten too as is Cockell

If we're looking at overachievers, then all the names you've mentioned are good ones, Truss, particularly Andries and McKenzie. It's easy to forget that, out of all the McKenzie brothers, Duke's amateur achievements were the least impressive, and he was expected to similarly achieve the least on the professional scene, too. Andries, well, what can you say about him that hasn't already been said already? His whole career was a model of hard work, persistence and self-belief. My stepdad attended his first British title tilt against Bunny Johnson (1982 off the top of my head, I think) and told me how the crowd booed him out of the ring, so bad was his performance. A few years later, he's a three-time Light-Heavyweight champion.

Johnny Nelson might be worth a shout; awful to watch the majority of the time (although he turned it on for his successful title shot against Thompson in 1999) but there's no denying that he got the absolute best out of himself and maximized what little he had.

Think we'll be adding Burns to this list soon, to be honest. He's done very well to make it to world title level, for my money.

Brave Don Cockell.......got a dreadful bashing.....

Freddie Mills world champion......

Know Downes as my grandpa was a big pender fan .....

Probably from the wrong era these guys..not too old and not too modern..

good picks.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You think mcmillan worthy?????

Thought he underachieved!!!!!! as did pardon me for saying it Michael Watson and Hero9l Graham..

Mainly from the point of view that he rarely, if ever, gets a mention.

Herbie Hide??

Kevin Finnegan

Henry Akinwande
Herbie Hide

To be honest Chris I'd never seen him fight when he went to Detroit to fight Tommy...

I couldn't believe a guy could become world champion with such incompetent boxing skills...

I felt embarrassed for him that night....

Then he comes back and wins the title twice...

Not sure how a guy can move to America for a year and gain an American accent like he did..But respect to him..he was a trier!!

Kevin Finnegan.....Must have been good I'm sure but alas I've never heard of him.. sorry.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Kevin Finnegan.....Must have been good I'm sure but alas I've never heard of him.. sorry.

Bit surprised you haven't as Hagler said he gave him a massively tough fight before retiring on cuts, then rematched him before the cut had time to heal but was further ahead in the 2nd fight etc.

Remember my great uncle talking about him alot as he was a bit of a double 'ard nut

Talking of the Finnegans, Chris is a good shout too, absolute belter of a fight with Bob Foster

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Talking of the Finnegans, Chris is a good shout too, absolute belter of a fight with Bob Foster

A
Was Judy anything like in her prime?

First fight I ever watched was in the summer of 78 Coxy Norton v Holmes..Imagine Hagler fought the guy before that...

Funny thing about Hagler was that although he came from relatively nearby Brockton I was never really into him as a fighter...

Something hard to like about him although I have met him...as a teenager in our gym..

"Clonk!"

You dropped something, Truss...

Are you going to say something interesting..

I'll make a deal with you mate, you say something interesting first, and then I will.

Just been on your thread...

Notice I'm only 2nd in your prediction league....

Alan Rudkin, an excellent sixties bantamweight from Liverpool, would belong in this company. Never quite able to secure a world title, but he did push Fighting Harada all the way to a tightish decision in Japan, and also took Lionel rose to a split in challenging for the title. Sadly, the murderous Olivares made short work of him but, nonetheless, Rudkin acquitted himself very well throughout his career and is, in many ways, the archtypal ' nearly man.'

He certainly fought some quality Windy.....

Sorry to say it but I hadn't heard of him either.......

Certainly a great shout..

Yours were great shouts also, Truss.

Have always had a soft spot for Sibson, and I love to see him get a mention, now and then. Hugely under appreciated when we discuss British middles, in my opinion.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Notice I'm only 2nd in your prediction league....

You're a very clever man, I've always said it.

Well done!

No prizes I'm afraid for stating the obvious.

Windy, speaking of British Bantamweights, how about Caldwell? Granted, his claim to the world title wasn't really taken all that seriously outside of Europe, but like Rudkin he mixed it with some real quality and scored some notable wins.

He was well beaten by the incredible Jofre, of course, but having seen bits of the fight he gave a decent account of himself, and was also twice good enough to beat Halimi, who have an all-time great Bantamweight in Becerra absolute hell a couple of times.

Certainly achieved a fair bit, might be worth consideration, too.

Johnny Owen???..saw a brave, brave performance against a quality champion in Lupe..Winning on points halfway I believe!!!!

Don't know much about the rest of his short career though.......

Is he worth a mention.....as his death is his main article calling card unfortunately..

88Chris05 wrote:Windy, speaking of British Bantamweights, how about Caldwell? Granted, his claim to the world title wasn't really taken all that seriously outside of Europe, but like Rudkin he mixed it with some real quality and scored some notable wins.

He was well beaten by the incredible Jofre, of course, but having seen bits of the fight he gave a decent account of himself, and was also twice good enough to beat Halimi, who have an all-time great Bantamweight in Becerra absolute hell a couple of times.

Certainly achieved a fair bit, might be worth consideration, too.

Excellent shout, Chris, and Walter McGowan might be another. Marvellous little boxer was McGowan, but it was his misfortune to cut more often than a Stanley knife, which was a terrible blight on his career.

Dave Charnley and Colin Jones seldom get their dues, either.

Colin Jones...you know I was going to put him on the list and forgot..

Had a high opinion of him....seeing him unluckily drawing the first fight with Milton and falling just short the next time....Beat Laing as well....

thought he'd do better against the don..

Apologies for missing the Welsh maestro out..

Going way way back Billy Plimmer and Pedlar Palmer never get a mention, two former bantamweight champions although both better known as bare knuckle fighters

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Colin Jones...you know I was going to put him on the list and forgot..

Had a high opinion of him....seeing him unluckily drawing the first fight with Milton and falling just short the next time....Beat Laing as well....

thought he'd do better against the don..

Apologies for missing the Welsh maestro out..

Your man was magnificent that night, Truss.

Remembered more for being a "quitter" who got spanked off Honey in this Country I'm afraid...

John Conteh probably worth adding to the list..

Unsung!!! or maybe he underachieved...

Seemed half decent..

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Going way way back Billy Plimmer and Pedlar Palmer never get a mention, two former bantamweight champions although both better known as bare knuckle fighters

Good shout, Ghosty. I think part of the reason Plimmer and Palmer don't get their dues as two of Britain's best pre-War fighters is simply because the Bantamweight division had such an uncertaint start; the limit moving up and down all over the place between 110 lb and 118 lb, more title claimants than you can shake a stick at and also the fact that, until McGovern won it, the title was only barely recognized Stateside.

Another good should with McGowan, Windy. An absolutely brilliant technician.

Heard of mcgowan but unfortunately not Plimmer or Palmer

Plimmer and Palmer..Sounds like a cop show doesn't it..

Have to say I think Conteh was a top class boxer who should have achieved far more than he did, were it not for his love of the good life he'd have been a genuine british great. Had the ability to beat the likes of Gallindez and Saad Muhammad but couldn't apply himself properly, the biggest waste of british talent aside from Kirkland Laing.

Palmer I believe is officially recognized as britains first gloved world champion which in itself should give him more recognition, the weight limits back then were pretty confusing, weren't particularly fixed and were often negotiated between the two fighters.

Thought Matthew Franklin had his number personally........

Galindez I don't know.....

Then again the fights I've seen Conteh in haven't been very flattering..

Galindez is one of my favourite fighters of all time and a unification match between him and Conteh between 1974 and 1977 would have been fantastic, of that I'm sure. Really should have happened.

Had Conteh shown a bit more application and not let his heart rule his head so often, he'd have stuck around a lot longer and there would have been fights not only with Galindez, but also the other outstanding Light-Heavyweights of that era such as Johnson, Eddie Mustafa Muhammad and Dwight Muhammad Qawi, as well as a bout with Matthew Saad Muhammad which would have given a much fairer picture of Conteh than their two actual fights did (though he did well to push 'Miracle Matthew' so close first time out with, essentially, only one hand).

Who knows, maybe even a match up with Spinks could have happened, although Conteh would have had a lot of miles on the clock by then. A real case of 'what if.'

It's boxers like Conteh who really irritate me, fair enough if your Ricky Hatton and do the best with what you've got but to throw it all away is a trait far too common with british fighters.

He's not British but he had one ugly fighting style.......Steve Collin's.

Got by on a steel jaw and incredible self confidence.

Anyone mention Crawford Ashley?

Ashley Crawford was a decent middle imo but came up short against Nunn although he put up a very brave battle.

HumanWindmill wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Colin Jones...you know I was going to put him on the list and forgot..

Had a high opinion of him....seeing him unluckily drawing the first fight with Milton and falling just short the next time....Beat Laing as well....

thought he'd do better against the don..

Apologies for missing the Welsh maestro out..

Your man was magnificent that night, Truss.

2 things came into congruity that night - Jones was pretty poor (but probs faded as old and after 2 wars with McCrory AND Curry was always all wrong for him) and Curry, in his pomp was magnificent.

Anyone who says any different about prime Curry is a fool or a knave or both.

Strange how a fighter like Jones was faded at 26 after relatively few fights, not taking away from what was a magnificent performance by Curry who throught Truss' guidance I have come to appreciate more recently

Good to see some well deserved appreciation for the Don.....

When I like to watch him fight I like to watch the first four rounds of the mccallum fight..

Poetry in motion against a fellow alltime great....

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:These are fighters that over achieved and have got world class or near to world class accomplishments to show for their careers but are mainly forgotten...

Naturally since I've only been here since 89 I am biased towards that time onward but kudos to these guys..

Duke Mckenzie
Steve Robinson
Dennis Andries
Pat Cowdell
Kirkland Laing
Tony Sibson....

Any more just as worthy or more worthy...never written about who deserve a mention??? please add them..

Would say Laing underachieved myself, was too lazy, if he'd had discipline i think he would of been at least a world title challenger

Beat Duran...........