Wales. The Fijians are coming...

First topic message reminder :

Fiji have beaten Samoa in the Pacific Nations Cup in a contest between two of Wales' World Cup opponents.

Hosts Fiji, who had lost their opening match against Tonga, crossed for five tries in a 36-18 win in Lautoka.

Fiji and Samoa are among Wales' Pool D opponents in the World Cup in New Zealand later this year.

In the competition's other match Japan, who had lost their opening fixture against Samoa, beat Tonga 28-27.

The our teams have won and lost one game apiece and honours will be decided in the third and final round to be played in Lautoka on Wednesday.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/14094694.stm

Who'll bet that Wales don't get out of their group again?

manofgwent wrote:Geordie. But Fiji comfortably beat Samoa.

You cant take anything from that game, both teams put reserve sides out and Samoa gave away 2 interception tries while on the Fiji try line. If you take away the 2 length of the field tries they scored then the game was pretty even. What has suprised me about BOTH Fiji and Samoa is the weakness of their defensive line during the Pacific Nations tournament it's all over the place.

manofgwent wrote:Maesteg. Fingers crossed. There will be some games in the other groups that will be walkovers. But I think this group will be really tight. If I remember rightly, Namibia weren't too bad in 07.

Mog didnt the Nambia backs get out paced by chabal from the halfway line, i mean chabal isint slow, but you would think a fullback should be able to keep pace with him rather than scraping at his arm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6_XoUCMmdA

welshy824 wrote:Mog didnt the Nambia backs get out paced by chabal from the halfway line, i mean chabal isint slow, but you would think a fullback should be able to keep pace with him rather than scraping at his arm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6_XoUCMmdA

I think Namibia gave up in the 19th minute when they had a player sent off for a high tackle, though it was barely a yellow never mind a red to be honest.

Defensive organisation is generally massively improved with more time together. Having the PAcific nations now gets them together and then they can build on that for the World Cup. When are Wales playing Samoa and Fiji? If they're towards the end I can imagine it being harder.

People have commented that when Wales drew with Fiji, that it was our 2nd string. Well, Byrne, north, Hook, Rees, r, jones, lydiate, Adam jones and Paul James all played. So you can't say it was a full 2nd string. As we all know the likes of the pacific islanders and Argentina do struggle as they don't get the same time together, with their players scattered all over the world. I think the real test will come in the WC when these teams have spent a long time together.

Sorry hammer. Pretty much repeated your comments. We start with SA, then Samoa, Namibia and Fiji. I think it's fair to say that our team will be slightly different come the Fiji game.

On namibia. Didn't they give ireland a tough time in 2007 or was it Ireland making hard work of things?

pick the right side and well take fiji apart up front, adam j rees gethin b davies awj lydiate warburton and toby f also we must make sure we kick the ball dead and not in play so they don;t counter attack us.

I worry more about samoa (see our previous world cup games v them) they have a solid half back pairing and a better pack and more european experience against our players

manofgwent wrote:People have commented that when Wales drew with Fiji, that it was our 2nd string. Well, Byrne, north, Hook, Rees, r, jones, lydiate, Adam jones and Paul James all played. So you can't say it was a full 2nd string. As we all know the likes of the pacific islanders and Argentina do struggle as they don't get the same time together, with their players scattered all over the world. I think the real test will come in the WC when these teams have spent a long time together.

I think your missing the point or possibly forgotten the actual match. The line out was abysmal in that game, with Bennett at hooker and Ian Gough and Deiniol Jones at locks. Jonathan Thomas was at number8 and Ryan Jones was on the blindside but that was when he was having his period of very poor form.
Richie Rees was scrum half with Dan Biggar at fly half and the pairing looked terrible.
Lydiate was playing but he was experimenting as an open side in this game and this game was before he was an established first team player.
George North was also playing but he'd only just made his debut so was still settling into top level rugby at that point.

I guess the final point your making is Fiji were under cooked for the game against Wales, but I would point out Fiji played France the week before so they would of had at least 2 weeks together before the Wales match, so making a case that their players play all over the World is hardly worth while.
I'm not sure how much difference preperation is going to have to either Fiji or Samoa looking at their defence in the Pacific Nations this year in the second round you'd wonder if they did any in training!

As you said alyn. Fiji and Samoa aren't currently at full strength so their defences may not be as bad as it appears.
Wales had Byrne, a lion, north had scored 2 tries the week before against SA so should have been settled nicely. We brought on the lions half backs in jones and Phillips. Richie Rees suits Wales style more than Phillips. You're right that lydiate played openside, Johnathon frickin anonymous was at 8!!! I despair. But the biggest joke of all and why I have absolutely no faith in our head coach. Goughand deniol jones at lock. 10 months before a WC and he's using what would have been a great opportunity to look at other locks. Ok not sure if Ian evans or big bird charteris were actually fit, but he could have played Ryan there. To pick 2 players that are well into their 30's and neither are in the WC squad i's absolutely criminal. I also agree on Bennett. Not one person other than gatland rates him, but if Matthew Rees has a knock, this duffer could be hooking!! It's ok to use him as an excuse for our line out failings and you are spot on, but we could be blaming him for a loss to Fiji in 3 months time too. It's crazy.

if hibbard is fit hell be ok as hooker cover, if not play owens or burns or even meifin davies any 1 but bennett!.

manofgwent wrote:As you said alyn. Fiji and Samoa aren't currently at full strength so their defences may not be as bad as it appears.
Wales had Byrne, a lion, north had scored 2 tries the week before against SA so should have been settled nicely. We brought on the lions half backs in jones and Phillips. Richie Rees suits Wales style more than Phillips. You're right that lydiate played openside, Johnathon frickin anonymous was at 8!!! I despair. But the biggest joke of all and why I have absolutely no faith in our head coach. Goughand deniol jones at lock. 10 months before a WC and he's using what would have been a great opportunity to look at other locks. Ok not sure if Ian evans or big bird charteris were actually fit, but he could have played Ryan there. To pick 2 players that are well into their 30's and neither are in the WC squad i's absolutely criminal. I also agree on Bennett. Not one person other than gatland rates him, but if Matthew Rees has a knock, this duffer could be hooking!! It's ok to use him as an excuse for our line out failings and you are spot on, but we could be blaming him for a loss to Fiji in 3 months time too. It's crazy.

Fair enough, however...
Fiji have called up their World Cup squad and all their players are in that Pacific Nations squad. When I say Fiji are weakened it's hard to fathom who exactly are their first choices because they chop and change so much game to game anyway. Though I have noticed Seru Rabeni hasn't been playing and he was the guy who took Hook apart in the 2007 World Cup game, so I'm not sure if he is fit or not at the moment.
The Fiji game did some good though, it proved Gough and Deiniol Jones aren't good enough for international rugby anymore, and it proved Dan Biggar isn't ready for it, it also convinced Gatland that perhaps Jonathan Thomas isn't that good and he hasn't featured to much since.
The truth is with no A team, Gatland has to give people a chance against teams like Fiji and Samoa in the November games because there is no other oppertunity!
Bennett is another story altogether, I have no idea why Gatland likes him, he is a decent player in all areas, but he is useless at line out throwing and if you can;t throw the ball streight then you shouldn;t be a hooker and if he hasn't learned that at 28 he never will!

Also a stronger ref would have the entire fiji front row in the bin, they collapsed the scrum time and time again.

This should be sorted at the world cup

jb1973 wrote:Also a stronger ref would have the entire fiji front row in the bin, they collapsed the scrum time and time again.

This should be sorted at the world cup

Well we should cream them up front to be honest. Deacon Manu is an awful scrumaging prop who has been the bane of the Scarlets pack this season at tight head.
We creamed them in 2007 and if we assume Graham Dewes will again be at Loose head and Sunia Koto will be at hooker we should shunt them off the field provided Gethin, Adam and Rees all stay fit!

jb1973 wrote:Also a stronger ref would have the entire fiji front row in the bin, they collapsed the scrum time and time again.

This should be sorted at the world cup

I agree, that scrum was re-set time after time for nearly 10 minutes, it was absolutely ridiculous

even with our second choice front row with james, Hibbard and mitchell should demolish them i mean that still isint a bad front row by any means

even paul james should be ok at loose head, he generally pushes manu from pillar to post.

hibbard and james to come on for the last 20 to grind the fiji scrum into the dirt,

adam jones has to stay fit though , mitchell and james at tight head are a huge step down in class

what do you mean james should be ok at loosehead? him, adam jones and hibbard at the O's have been the best scrummaging front row in the ML (pro 12)

and although we do need AJ to stay fit, Mitchell proved in the 6n that is capable of doing a good job there and will probably start against nambia and could hold his own easily against fiji (after all he did a deceant job scrummaging in the 6n)

Japan beat Fiji to claim PNC

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3887_7034400,00.html

ah thats good news

This season the Scarlets concentrated on the ML and said that the HC will take care of itself. Wales need to concentrate 110% on the SA game IMO and the rest of the pool will take care of itself.

welshy824 wrote:what do you mean james should be ok at loosehead? him, adam jones and hibbard at the O's have been the best scrummaging front row in the ML (pro 12)

and although we do need AJ to stay fit, Mitchell proved in the 6n that is capable of doing a good job there and will probably start against nambia and could hold his own easily against fiji (after all he did a deceant job scrummaging in the 6n)

yeah sorry mate didn;t mean to talk james or hibbard down, both will do well for wales

munkian wrote:Japan beat Fiji to claim PNC

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3887_7034400,00.html

so we expect Japan to do as well as Wales in the RWC?
Good Kiwi coach.

Hey that's a good prediction a kiwi coached team to win the world cup!

nganboy wrote:so we expect Japan to do as well as Wales in the RWC?
Good Kiwi coach.

Hey that's a good prediction a kiwi coached team to win the world cup!

All John Kirwan has done, is what Graham Henry did as Wales coach, he found players from other countries and got them to play for him as national coach. Japan are full of islanders and kiwis.