Golden Goose!

Every now and again a fighter comes around who become the treasure chest of promoters and now television companies alike. A few months ago Teddy Atlas (a man I respect greatly) spilled the beans on the current Manny Pacquaio sensation. Teddy exposed the con surrounding Manny and the hype that the general public have fallen for. His outburst came after the dissapointing Pacquaio v Mosley "super fight" and never came close to living up to expectations. That fight was hyped and promoted to the hilt even though we the real boxing fans knew that Mosley was finished. Bob Arum pulled off a marketing masterpiece selling that fight as it sold out and made million for all involved. Teddy also indicates that the state of Manny's opponents are very below par and suited to him.

I want to know if there are any other famous cases of the golden goose phenomenon.

Ali?
Chavez?
Tyson?
De La Hoya?

and who are the future golden gooses?

Alverez?
Khan?
Rios?

*geese

Goose I am American.

Future geeses (sic) will probably be Chavez Jr, Alvarez is another. Khan is geared toward being one.

Lucien Bute is a bit of one at the moment. Andre Ward is most certainly expected to be one. Maybe once he's made a stack of cash he'll be able to afford a new passport.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Goose I am American.

Does that make you illiterate then? In the English language the plural for goose is geese. Fact, end of, etc.

Geese not gooses. Even for an American. Or do you still hate mices to pieces

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:I want to know if there are any other famous cases of the golden goose phenomenon.

Ali?
Chavez?
Tyson?
De La Hoya?

Ali? Really? When he first burst on the scene he certainly wasn't put forward as a beacon of shining light like Pacquiao has been; he was as much reviled as he was loved. Besides, I think he proved himself enough to be exempt from consideration here.

Chavez? There was no 'con' regarding him. He was the real deal, and showed it time and time again.

Tyson? Well, as much as a hate the hysteria he's caused amongst some casual boxing fans, I can understand why there was such a fuss about him from the mid eighties to early nineties. Say what you like about him, but he was genuinely exciting, and in no way was he carefully ushered through the ranks like some suggest Pacquiao has been. He fought and beat (Foreman aside, perhaps) all the top men available, it simply wasn't a great Heavyweight era, that's all.

De la Hoya, maybe you're on to something there. Was certainly being groomed for stardom due to Olympic gold, his crossover appeal and telegenic personality. By 1998 he was being propelled to 'best in the world, pound for pound' status on the back of beating shopworn versions of Chavez and Camacho, taking a nip/tuck decision over Whitaker (which I thought was a draw) and a similarly close affair with Quartey. You're right in the sense that there was a lot of pressure with Oscar (and on him too, in fairness) given how heavily he'd been backed by the media, but looking back now it's clear that a few people were getting ahead of themselves and that he was elevated to greatness prematurely.

Alvarez is the most likely to be the next one, given his style, age and the way he's being carefully marketed. Chavez Jr too, perhaps.

bhb001 wrote:Geese not gooses. Even for an American. Or do you still hate mices to pieces

He probably hangs them in little meece-sized neeses neese.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Goose I am American.

No you're not

Good post chris.

Guys lets drop the Geese/Goose rubbish. You say tomato we say tomoto

you say toilet we say lavatory

you say

jeff I dont want any trouble. Just trying to spark some boxing debate here.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Good post chris.

Guys lets drop the Geese/Goose rubbish. You say tomato we say tomoto

you say toilet we say lavatory

you say

You say gooses, the rest of the world including every American says geese. Just admit that you are wrong

Chavez? There was no 'con' regarding him. He was the real deal, and showed it time and time again.
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Chavez is interesting. I dont doubt that he was the real deal but he was pushed to the front of the boxing limelight during the 90's when King lost Tyson. His fight with Taylor highlighted that.

Just looked up the definition of gooses. Says term for more than one goose, but only by idiots.

Are you still a girl?

Anyway, not sure where you're going using Ali and Chavez as examples? Even Tyson isn't really a great example. I cant really say he was protected.

I'm not sure what way to view Khan these days. Seems to have turned a corner fighting Maidana and now Judah. More than worrying that Morales is being touted as his next opponent. Chavez jnr is the ultimate example.

Anyway, not sure where you're going using Ali and Chavez as examples? Even Tyson isn't really a great example. I cant really say he was protected
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There is a question mark after their names indicating a question is being asked as to your views on the subject, not putting their names forward as certs

Ali's level of opposition is beyond reproach. From start to finish he took on everyone - insane stuff like fighting Shavers when basically shot and being massive a underdog against wrecking machines in Foreman and Liston.

What're more he had rubber matches against the two guys with the perfect skillset to beat him in Norton and Frazier. I don't think he beat Norton once, but Ali kept trying.

Such a great fighter and inspirational person. To compare him with the likes of

Alverez?
Khan?
Rios?

is idiotic.

Im not comparing him to those 3 fighters your being idiotic. Ali had some dubious fights in his career you have to admit that. Wepner, Bugner, London all dubious fights to keep the money rolling in.

fearlessBamber wrote:Ali's level of opposition is beyond reproach. From start to finish he took on everyone - insane stuff like fighting Shavers when basically shot and being massive a underdog against wrecking machines in Foreman and Liston.

What're more he had rubber matches against the two guys with the perfect skillset to beat him in Norton and Frazier. I don't think he beat Norton once, but Ali kept trying.

Such a great fighter and inspirational person. To compare him with the likes of

Alverez?
Khan?
Rios?

is idiotic.

Bingo.

( Though I do give him the second of the three against Norton. )

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Im not comparing him to those 3 fighters your being idiotic. Ali had some dubious fights in his career you have to admit that. Wepner, Bugner, London all dubious fights to keep the money rolling in.

If not a direct comparison it was very much a not-entirely-indirect comparison.

Truth is though as has been argued many many times before there are few if any long reigning champions who do not have some guff in their. All you can ask of champion is they cleared out what quality was around during their era. As Ali has Liston, Patterson, Frazier Foreman and Norton on his ledger amongst others think we can say he has done this and so the guff is pretty much accepted as par for the course of a long reigning champion.

Alis fight with Bugner in singapore? what was that? I am just saying he was the Golden G...... at some point in his career which directly or in directly was the cause of his parkinsons. His fight with Holmes, Berbick all questionable.

Tyson 1 of the biggest but very exciting. Television companies backing him to the hilt until he met Douglas.

Chavez had to carry the mantle of boxing during the demise of Tyson and the poor heavyweight division of the 90's

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Anyway, not sure where you're going using Ali and Chavez as examples? Even Tyson isn't really a great example. I cant really say he was protected
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There is a question mark after their names indicating a question is being asked as to your views on the subject, not putting their names forward as certs

Why write an article about 'Golden Geese' and then use 3 completely random examples? Surely would work better if you put forward names that you believe fit your article?

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Chavez had to carry the mantle of boxing during the demise of Tyson and the poor heavyweight division of the 90's

True, but unlike certain other names being thrown about so far, I wouldn't say he was pushed to that particular front line prematurely. Tyson was sent to do porridge in 1992; Chavez was an all-time great by then.

paperbag_puncher wrote:

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Anyway, not sure where you're going using Ali and Chavez as examples? Even Tyson isn't really a great example. I cant really say he was protected
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There is a question mark after their names indicating a question is being asked as to your views on the subject, not putting their names forward as certs

Why write an article about 'Golden Geese' and then use 3 completely random examples? Surely would work better if you put forward names that you believe fit your article?

Leave her alone.

floyd mayweather has got to be a famous case of the golden goose phenomonen, an olympian so he was always going to be put on telly a from his early fights and he's been pound for pound since 1998, despite at the time a few fighters more deserving of a top 10 spot.

also his style isn't crowd friendly yet still has made 100s of millions of dollars, the same can't be said of de la hoya, chavez, ali and tyson who at least had plenty of exciting fights. and he has over 1 million followers on twitter despite playing the villain in big fight build ups, I have never seen another boxer with anywhere near as many followers, de la hoya only has around 90,000 followers

Tyson was sent to do porridge in 1992; Chavez was an all-time great by then.
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Yes very true but after Tyson's fall Chavez was the marquee name in boxing which came into effect in the poor decision he got against sweet pea.

Chavez jnr is a true golden goose.

Atlas has issues with Manny in the past. Manny's opponents are always touted as superfights now - and he's become a ppv figher which means he has started fighting whoever sell best. That's a great shame because we'd all rather he fought more challenges and less names.

However - its the same with all top fighters. Look at Floyd-Ortiz. Yes - I'm glad its happening, yes I'm excited - and it looks like Floyd fighting a tough young stud. Which is great - but in truth Ortiz has shown himself extremely vulnerable to the straight right and boxing intelligence and heart - all of which Floyd has in abundance and so Floyd should comprehensively dismantle him. That's proper matchmaking. A fight that looks dangerous, allows your boxer to make many $$$ and enhances his legacy and makes him look a million dollars. Floyd, also is a golden goose. Floyd, however - is his own golden goose, rather than being Arum's.

floyd mayweather has got to be a famous case of the golden goose phenomonen, an olympian so he was always going to be put on telly a from his early fights and he's been pound for pound since 1998, despite at the time a few fighters more deserving of a top 10 spot.

also his style isn't crowd friendly yet still has made 100s of millions of dollars, the same can't be said of de la hoya, chavez, ali and tyson who at least had plenty of exciting fights. and he has over 1 million followers on twitter despite playing the villain in big fight build ups, I have never seen another boxer with anywhere near as many followers, de la hoya only has around 90,000 followers

zx1234

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You make a good argument with Floyd but the reason he makes millions in his fights is the fact that he has remained undefeated and his super fight with De La Hoya.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:
You make a good argument with Floyd but the reason he makes millions in his fights is the fact that he has remained undefeated and his super fight with De La Hoya.

He was a huge star before the Oscar fight, and if it were down to his unbeaten record then Terry Marsh would be an ATG millionaire, also.

He was a huge star before the Oscar fight, and if it were down to his unbeaten record then Terry Marsh would be an ATG millionaire, also.

HumanWindmill
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Posts: 6118
Join date: 2011-02-18

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Yes he was a huge star but Hoya made him the super star of boxing that he is with the hbo 24/7 rubbish and the good guy/bad guy angle they played on all of us.

So Bob Arum is the Man with the Golden Goose?

So Bob Arum is the Man with the Golden Goose?
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In a nut shell.......yes!

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:

In a nut shell.......yes!

Hmmm. How do you fit a Golden Goose in a nut shell? Unless it is a smallish Golden Goose and we are talking coconuts......

See the "QUOTE button over there ---->>> ????

Use it!

Michaels, Sean wrote:So Bob Arum is the Man with the Golden Goose?

Pacquiao is certainly Arum's golden goose of the moment, but he's earned a certain amount of leeway by having a fantastic career. Chavez Jr by contrast is being carried and built up based on his surname and little else.

BALTIMORA wrote:Chavez Jr by contrast is being carried and built up based on his surname and little else.

Is he related to Floyd Mayweather and Roy Jones then?

Is he related to Floyd Mayweather and Roy Jones then?
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No he is the son of Julio Cesear Chavez.

OneTwo - could you please use the quote facility when quoting. It is simple netiquette and also users to keep track of the debate. Many thanks

I suppose it all depends on whether we consider being a "golden goose" a good or a bad thing. Manny and Mayweather have beaten enough good fighters to deserve their status. JCCjr has not.

Michaels, Sean wrote:

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:

In a nut shell.......yes!

Hmmm. How do you fit a Golden Goose in a nut shell? Unless it is a smallish Golden Goose and we are talking coconuts......

I consider the coconut a drupe, not a nut.

Is he related to Floyd Mayweather and Roy Jones then?
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No he is the son of Julio Cesear Chavez..

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Oh, I see.

Its just a coincidence then that they are all called Junior.

Thanks for clearing that up.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Is he related to Floyd Mayweather and Roy Jones then?
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No he is the son of Julio Cesear Chavez.

Never heard of him.

Scottrf wrote:

Michaels, Sean wrote:

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:

In a nut shell.......yes!

Hmmm. How do you fit a Golden Goose in a nut shell? Unless it is a smallish Golden Goose and we are talking coconuts......

I consider the coconut a drupe, not a nut.

So if a mail Goose was in a coconut shell it would be a drupey c0ck?

A hairy one too.

Scottrf wrote:A hairy one too.

So Bob Arum has no such thing as a Golden Goose, just a hairy, drupey c0ck?

Michaels, Sean wrote:So if a mail Goose was in a coconut shell...

Is that a middle class goose with right wing (pardon the pun!) political leanings?

Union Cane wrote:

Michaels, Sean wrote:So if a mail Goose was in a coconut shell...

Is that a middle class goose with right wing (pardon the pun!) political leanings?

No, I think you are mistaking a Goose and a Griffin. Griffin's are creatures of Greek Mythologies so probably didn't even exist......

What?

Nick...

I thought it was quite good personally.

I was thinking Family Guy which didn't make sense (although they do hate Jews I suppose).

Can't see how we get from the Daily Mail to Nick Griffin though, that's a bit of a stretch.