Whose Career, Westwood or Clarke ?

First topic message reminder :

There is always a lot of chat on here about what a major means or a high ranking means in terms of legacy. We often get players like Westwood compared to say Ben Curtis. Well how about Westwood and Clarke as an interesting one.
On the assumption neither wins a major going forward whose career whould you rather have had. Clarke peaked at number 8 in the rankings but has a couple of WGC's (including memorably beating a peak Tiger down the stretch) and not to forget the Open. Westwood more wins and of course has made it to the pinnacle of the rankings. Both have excellent Ryder Cup records. Both have had not so great times as well.
Whose career would you rather have had ?

theeldestboy wrote:

Diggers wrote:Id hazard a guess that the number of golfers who make number one might be about to increase quite rapidly.
Its been a very exclusive club but not sure that will be the case quite so much going forward.

The exact same arguement could be made about major winners, except in the case of major winners, it's already happened.

Good point.

Try phrasing it "would you like your name on the top of a sheet of paper/computer screen or engraved in perpetuity on the Claret Jug" ?

C'Mon D'arn

The ChubbySlam team are obviously a great bunch, and seem to be pushing each other onwards and upwards (Except for Ernie) Who would have thought that Rory could come back so quickly after Augusta. Charl and Louis are obviously factors in this. DC obviously wanted to show the kids that he's not finished and was a worthy winner.

Lee and DC have been best mates for ever and I get the feeling that Darren's victory will focus Lee's attention and make him close one out shortly. i've often had the view that Lee may end up being another Monty, but because of DC's win, I'm now more confident that lee will also win a major now.

You might be right.

leinsterbaby wrote:David Beckham is one of the richest footballers ever but a long way off being one of the best ever. As Rory said after his US open win his career is not about how much money he makes it's about how many majors he wins.

.

Surprising that you use an English footballer in your example.

George Best was, therefore, absolute dump and his career wasn't anything to remember.

leinsterbaby wrote:David Beckham is one of the richest footballers ever but a long way off being one of the best ever. As Rory said after his US open win his career is not about how much money he makes it's about how many majors he wins.

If that's the case should he not be saying he will improve his game to win an Open and not the glib comment he said on Sunday? It's 25% of the tournaments he's bothered he's about.

theeldestboy wrote:

leinsterbaby wrote:David Beckham is one of the richest footballers ever but a long way off being one of the best ever. As Rory said after his US open win his career is not about how much money he makes it's about how many majors he wins.

.

Surprising that you use an English footballer in your example.

George Best was, therefore, absolute dump and his career wasn't anything to remember.

Irish Londoner wrote:Try phrasing it "would you like your name on the top of a sheet of paper/computer screen or engraved in perpetuity on the Claret Jug" ?

C'Mon D'arn

Who has more respect? Ben Curtis or Lee Westwood? Rich Beem or Luke Donald?

It's disappointing that a lot of people appear shallow over this and put added weight on someone winning something shiny that is well known (as if they're human magpies) than someone actually being a consistently good golfer.

We've had this converstaion many times before, but the Majors are over-rated and the OWGR are under-rated.

Mercurio wrote:

Irish Londoner wrote:Try phrasing it "would you like your name on the top of a sheet of paper/computer screen or engraved in perpetuity on the Claret Jug" ?

C'Mon D'arn

Who has more respect? Ben Curtis or Lee Westwood? Rich Beem or Luke Donald?

It's disappointing that a lot of people appear shallow over this and put added weight on someone winning something shiny that is well known (as if they're human magpies) than someone actually being a consistently good golfer.

We've had this converstaion many times before, but the Majors are over-rated and the OWGR are under-rated.

The discussion is about whose career you would prefer to have, this is dependant on how each poster views quite a few variables, not just who might be considered the better golfer. How you rate majthe value of winning a major is a personal preference, there isnt an exact science.
As far as Im aware there hasnt been a debate before comparing Westwood and Clarkes caerers.

Doc wrote:The ChubbySlam team are obviously a great bunch, and seem to be pushing each other onwards and upwards (Except for Ernie) Who would have thought that Rory could come back so quickly after Augusta. Charl and Louis are obviously factors in this. DC obviously wanted to show the kids that he's not finished and was a worthy winner.

Lee and DC have been best mates for ever and I get the feeling that Darren's victory will focus Lee's attention and make him close one out shortly. i've often had the view that Lee may end up being another Monty, but because of DC's win, I'm now more confident that lee will also win a major now.

Chubby Chandler does my head in, I know they're his guys and his good friends with them, but he comes across as a bit of a hanger on trying to get in the TV shots at the end of tournaments.

theeldestboy wrote:

leinsterbaby wrote:David Beckham is one of the richest footballers ever but a long way off being one of the best ever. As Rory said after his US open win his career is not about how much money he makes it's about how many majors he wins.

.

Surprising that you use an English footballer in your example.

George Best was, therefore, absolute dump and his career wasn't anything to remember.

Contraversial but I tend to agree with you because he wasted his talent

leinsterbaby wrote:

theeldestboy wrote:

leinsterbaby wrote:David Beckham is one of the richest footballers ever but a long way off being one of the best ever. As Rory said after his US open win his career is not about how much money he makes it's about how many majors he wins.

.

Surprising that you use an English footballer in your example.

George Best was, therefore, absolute dump and his career wasn't anything to remember.

Contraversial but I tend to agree with you because he wasted his talent

Then let's try a better example;

Would you rather have Iain Balshaw's career, or Ronan O'Gara's?

In line with my arguements above, i'd much rather be Ronan. You?

I think in terms of the thread a better comparison would be O'Driscoll and Will Greenwood.

Surprised the "keep on topic" police haven't stepped in yet.

Back to Clarke and Westwood's career, as this thread was so intended, I would still opt for Clarke's. Clarke has just achieved his dream of winning a major and although a few years ago he may have dreamt of being world number 1 and winning lots of majors, that sadly didn't happen for non-golfing reasons. Darren Clarke might say that he can still win more majors but realistically if he put he clubs away now for the rest of his life he will only be proud of what he has achieved. He has no ambition about being number 1 and will probably know that this weekend was the pinnacle of a very admirable life in golf. Lee Westwood knows that he should have/could have won majors and is trying desperately to win one. If he doesn't then his career would not have been fulfilled and that is why, right now, Clarke has had a more enviable career.

Diggers wrote:I think in terms of the thread a better comparison would be O'Driscoll and Will Greenwood.

Yes I think it is a better example. However, let's not lose sight of the fact that golf is an individual game so you are fully responsible for reaching your potential. If Drico played for England in 03' Greenwood probably would have been on the bench.

I'm going with the extreme again diggers! Ronan O'Gara is a better, more respected rugby player who has achieved more in his career than Balshaw, but Balshaw has a World Cup winners medal.

This is on topic SR. This good debate has centred in part on how much a single major win counts for compared to a longer, more consistent career. Leinster argues that the Major is the biggest weighting factor. He's a rugby fan, anti-english and obviously Irish. I am try to see how far his views extend and to maybe show the weakness in the arguements that majors are worth everything.

Of course we'd all rather be O'Gara than Belshaw. But will Leinster allow himself to say it?

sharrison01 wrote:Back to Clarke and Westwood's career, as this thread was so intended, I would still opt for Clarke's. Clarke has just achieved his dream of winning a major and although a few years ago he may have dreamt of being world number 1 and winning lots of majors, that sadly didn't happen for non-golfing reasons. Darren Clarke might say that he can still win more majors but realistically if he put he clubs away now for the rest of his life he will only be proud of what he has achieved. He has no ambition about being number 1 and will probably know that this weekend was the pinnacle of a very admirable life in golf. Lee Westwood knows that he should have/could have won majors and is trying desperately to win one. If he doesn't then his career would not have been fulfilled and that is why, right now, Clarke has had a more enviable career.

Id say that was pretty much on the money for me.

Id rather be OGara than Balshaw...but I think Id rather be Greenwood than ODriscoll...........maybe, just about.

Right, it's the end of the day here. Cracking day's debate everyone, great to see 606v2 being used to it's full potential.

See you all tomorrow!

super_realist wrote:Surprised the "keep on topic" police haven't stepped in yet.

The police have been cutting overtime in recent years. That job would require a full team with overtime, pension benefits, private healthcare and less bureaucracy.

theeldestboy wrote:I'm going with the extreme again diggers! Ronan O'Gara is a better, more respected rugby player who has achieved more in his career than Balshaw, but Balshaw has a World Cup winners medal.

This is on topic SR. This good debate has centred in part on how much a single major win counts for compared to a longer, more consistent career. Leinster argues that the Major is the biggest weighting factor. He's a rugby fan, anti-english and obviously Irish. I am try to see how far his views extend and to maybe show the weakness in the arguements that majors are worth everything.

Of course we'd all rather be O'Gara than Belshaw. But will Leinster allow himself to say it?

Can't really compare the two as one is a fullback and the other an OH. Do you think I don't like ROG because Im from Leinster?

theeldestboy wrote:I'm going with the extreme again diggers! Ronan O'Gara is a better, more respected rugby player who has achieved more in his career than Balshaw, but Balshaw has a World Cup winners medal.

This is on topic SR. This good debate has centred in part on how much a single major win counts for compared to a longer, more consistent career. Leinster argues that the Major is the biggest weighting factor. He's a rugby fan, anti-english and obviously Irish. I am try to see how far his views extend and to maybe show the weakness in the arguements that majors are worth everything.

Of course we'd all rather be O'Gara than Belshaw. But will Leinster allow himself to say it?

Anti-English?

JPX wrote:

Doc wrote:The ChubbySlam team are obviously a great bunch, and seem to be pushing each other onwards and upwards (Except for Ernie) Who would have thought that Rory could come back so quickly after Augusta. Charl and Louis are obviously factors in this. DC obviously wanted to show the kids that he's not finished and was a worthy winner.

Lee and DC have been best mates for ever and I get the feeling that Darren's victory will focus Lee's attention and make him close one out shortly. i've often had the view that Lee may end up being another Monty, but because of DC's win, I'm now more confident that lee will also win a major now.

Chubby Chandler does my head in, I know they're his guys and his good friends with them, but he comes across as a bit of a hanger on trying to get in the TV shots at the end of tournaments.

Intersting then that you would chose to defend Mr Poulter so vigarously??

Clarke or Westwood, if both careers ended now, Clark easily, and no matter how some people try to ignore it, the defining reason is because of the major!

JDandfries wrote:Intersting then that you would chose to defend Mr Poulter so vigarously??

What's that got to do with Poulter? I was hardly defending him either, just pointing out yours and Diggers blinkered views on him. Not going into all that again as I'm on the verge of not bothering with this forum because of it.

JDandfries wrote:

JPX wrote:

Doc wrote:The ChubbySlam team are obviously a great bunch, and seem to be pushing each other onwards and upwards (Except for Ernie) Who would have thought that Rory could come back so quickly after Augusta. Charl and Louis are obviously factors in this. DC obviously wanted to show the kids that he's not finished and was a worthy winner.

Lee and DC have been best mates for ever and I get the feeling that Darren's victory will focus Lee's attention and make him close one out shortly. i've often had the view that Lee may end up being another Monty, but because of DC's win, I'm now more confident that lee will also win a major now.

Chubby Chandler does my head in, I know they're his guys and his good friends with them, but he comes across as a bit of a hanger on trying to get in the TV shots at the end of tournaments.

Intersting then that you would chose to defend Mr Poulter so vigarously??

Clarke or Westwood, if both careers ended now, Clark easily, and no matter how some people try to ignore it, the defining reason is because of the major!

Despite how much Chubby Chandler is liked or disliked as a person, his achievements should be acknowledged. Just like Poulter's.

JPX, it has nothing to do with Poulter.

But you chastised me for having a go at Poulter in exactly the same way you have done a CC, just a tad hypocritical i thought!

JPX wrote:

JDandfries wrote:Intersting then that you would chose to defend Mr Poulter so vigarously??

What's that got to do with Poulter? I was hardly defending him either, just pointing out yours and Diggers blinkered views on him. Not going into all that again as I'm on the verge of not bothering with this forum because of it.

Was that an official 'toys out of the pram moment?

If you don't stop disagreeing with me, im taking my keyboard home

No I think not, it's entirely different.

I simply stated Chandler appearing at the end of tournaments annoys me that's all, I totally respect his achievements and what he does for a living, he's obviously very good at it. If it was comparable to your and Diggers comments on Poulter then I would start discrediting his achievements.

No its not toys out of the pram, I simply have better things to do than having to justify my feelings on Poulter all the time.

Yet you expect me to justify mine??

Excuse me? Did I ask you about Poulter on this thread?

Guys probably time for us to call this a day. JPX I do take your points about Poulter and Im sure he's a decent bloke, he just gets under my skin, the other golfer who does is McDowell. Its silly but it happens, Im not going to go out and kill them nor do I hate them, they just have faces that bug me. It happens
Im sure there are plenty of other subjects we might all agree on, Im sure Ive had a tear up with JD before but we agree at least on one thing on here.
Cant we just call a truce ?

I am happy with that, It just gets to me when people change their opinions from one thread to the next, I also agree with you on McDowell, is he American, or Irish, or does he (like IJP) want to be a Premier League footballer?

I have to agree with Diggers re opinions, I dislike many people for completely absurd reasons. I really don't like Steven Gerrard because his hairline begins right above his eyebrow and his favourite type of cheese is "melted".
I don't like Zach Johnson because I hate religious zealots and see religion as a crutch for the feeble minded and also that it has no place in golf. I hate (and I really do hate) Heston Blumenthal because he has a silly name and is a smug, fat, self satisfied pompous pr!ck.

I can't explain it, I just have silly predujices against people who annoy me.

SR, I agree with all of your issues above 100%

Clarke of course, Westwood is a failure as far as not winning a Major. His number 1 ranking was by default

You are so prejudiced against Heston you see him as a fatty when he's not. You see him through porker goggles. I actually think he's a bit of a fitness fanatic Super.
I bet you love John Terry though dont you......

Oh Christ, he's back.

I think if both their careers finished today only one would be happy with what they have achieved. If you don't win the top prizes in your sport, you are always gonna be left with that 'something missing' feeling.

Who was it who said Keizo wasn't a WUM?? ha

Love the reason for hating Gerrard, Super - brilliant!!

Diggers, I concede that I'm not fond of Terry, he looks like an old man and is probably the player most guilty of football cliches.

It would be like one of us being interviewed after a round and saying " Yeah I'm over the moon with my drive at 7, I don't normally go that far on my holidays, and it was so high I thought it would come down with snow on it."

Blumenthal may be fat or not, he's certainly rotund, but has a fat and podgy face that I would never tire of kicking, no doubt in the front seat of his M5 which he insists being pictured in. Hateful man.

Diggers wrote:Guys probably time for us to call this a day. JPX I do take your points about Poulter and Im sure he's a decent bloke, he just gets under my skin, the other golfer who does is McDowell. Its silly but it happens, Im not going to go out and kill them nor do I hate them, they just have faces that bug me. It happens
Im sure there are plenty of other subjects we might all agree on, Im sure Ive had a tear up with JD before but we agree at least on one thing on here.
Cant we just call a truce ?

OK let's draw a line under it. I'm not actually a fan of Poulter at all, just don't like his achievements being trampled on as though they're worthless. I'm going to give the forum a break for a while anyway, I have a big week next week so better start practising, and you never know, might see him at Woburn, if I do I'll give him your best wishes!

I can't stand the way that Heston cooks baked beans on toast, adds a lump of his own Poopie and some liquid nitrogen to give it effect and then charges £25 for it.

Seriously, as a restauranteur he's fine - people can choose to go there or not. On the TV, what on earth can people learn when he cooks things that people wouldn't even dream of!? I saw one of his recipes for a spag bowl once and it took 8 hours at a low heat - the cost of gas I'd rather go to his restaurant and eat one of his Poopie sandwiches, with liquid nitrogen of course.

I'm half expecting him to use a particle accelerator and a nuclear reactor next.

Hate, hate , hate that (fat) man.

I watched one episode where he made a meal, and built a house with it, utterly pointless and time wasting for everyone involved.

Uses gimmicks to enhance his reputation, tut tut

Who's cooking career would you rather have then? Jamie Oliver's or Hestin Blumenthal's?

He just cooks a meal and brings it out on a bed of liquid nitrogen - people are wowed by the smoke and mirrors and not the very average food. One thing that I do like about him though is that he is not innovative in his cooking in that he just copies the chefs at Kikunoi and El Bulli. That's probably why he's resorted to impressing z-list celebrities...

sharrison01 wrote:He just cooks a meal and brings it out on a bed of liquid nitrogen - people are wowed by the smoke and mirrors and not the very average food. One thing that I do like about him though is that he is not innovative in his cooking in that he just copies the chefs at Kikunoi and El Bulli. That's probably why he's resorted to impressing z-list celebrities...

Reminds me of a certain golfer!

Oliver is almost as irksome as Blumenthal, but at least his cooking isn't 100% pretentious tosh, so i'l give him the nod, even though he feels the need to add ingredients from above his head while being incapable of recoiling his tounge into his mockney lisping head.

Come on guys, 3 michelin stars and the Fat Duck has been voted best restaurant in the world before a couple of times.
Thats the equivalent of Paddys majors and Lees's ranking rolled into one.
But Ill pass on the smail ice cream thanks all the same.