Best players in the AP - English - Top 3

What would be your list of top 3 players in each position in the AP? (6 for locks,props and wingers). In order that you rate.

Props - Cole,Stevens,Corbisierio,PDJ,Sheridan,Marler

Hookers - Hartley,Thompson,Mears

2nd Row - Lawes,Deacon,Attwood,Botha,Borthwick,Kennedy

Blindsides - Croft,Robshaw,Johnson

Opensides - Moody,Wood,Saull

No 8 - Easter, Dowson,Narraway

Scrum halves - Youngs,Care,Wigglesworth/Simpson

Fly halves - Flood,Hodgson,Farrell

Inside centres - Barritt,Allen,JTH

Outside centres - Tindall,Tuilagi,Lowe

Wingers - Ashton,Strettle,JSD,Monye,Sharples,Short

Full backs - Foden,Goode,Brown

No overrated players in my list.

Strangely enough this would be my England squad though obviously Palmer and Wilkinson would slot in.

What would be your list?

A couple of possibles to add to the melting pot.

Steffon Armitage when fit has been good for London Irish for a couple of seasons now, albeit a little off his previous best this season (perhaps ahead of Saull who is yet to make the Sarries 1st XV).

Topsy Ojo is an underrated player in my opinion, who made a very decent return from injury this season.

Henry Trinder at Glaws. I'd pick him ahead of Lowe personally. Impressive strike rate from centre.

Funny exiled scot some fair points.

Saull has played in the Sarries 1st XV a fair few times actually.

I never considered Steffon Armitage as he is moving to France.

I agree Topsy Ojo is very underrated. So underrated that I haven't included him.

Fair enough about Trinder. If I had a top 5 outside centres I would add Trinder and Clarke as 4th and 5th respectively.

What would be your list?

"Saull has played in the Sarries 1st XV a fair few times actually."

I know, but he isn't in the first choice 1st XV, not for the big games.

My list would be the same as yours except the three changes I made (Armitage for Saull, Ojo for Short and Trinder for Lowe).

When you put Kennedy at lock I had to have a think, and I reckon when Parling gets himself fit he'll be back in the reckoning there, but Kennedy has always delivered the goods at Irish so on form it's hard to dispute (I guess Alex Brown finished the season strongly).

Next season at 8 we should see more from Tom Guest I think. That would perhaps push Dowson into the list at 6 or 7 rather than 8 (where he doesn't really play at Northampton as Roger Wilson takes that slot usually).

Beshocked, you said English players yet you have two Saffa's in your lists (Botha and Barritt). Are you a Saracens fan?

nottins_jones

"His name's Henry Jones Jr... We named the dog nottins."

nottins_joneS
oh you funny guy!!!! shame you cant count.....

James Hudson is a pretty good Second Row.

Beshocked..im glad you have put Lowe in there at center...i have championing him for a while now.

I also think Banahan should be in there somewhere. Probably at wing.
Whilst he has his critics...his try scoring and ability to draw in players and offload should not be underestimated....

I think we'll see him at 12 next season.

Salosi Tagickacibau has got to be in the running for top wingers!

timbob wrote:Salosi Tagickacibau has got to be in the running for top wingers!

I think he means top three English qualified players in each position. I might be playing Sherlock here, but he may be having a go at Martin Johnson's selection policy.

Back Row based on form and ability

Blindside - Croft, Dowson, Johnson.

Openside - Robshaw, Wood, Saull.

No.8 - Easter, Narraway. (No other genuine English options)

Obviously Fourie and Waldrom would be included as they are English by residence/english grandmother. So Waldrom would be the third no.8 option and Fourie would be selected ahead of Saull.

Moody would be nowhere near th.e England squad based on form and ability

Robshaw,

Were you not impressed with Guests performances this season before his injury? I think he would be on that list in 3rd.....a big start to the season and MJ will HAVE to look at him.

You are right however in suggesting the cupboard is pretty bare with regards to good 8's.

Would you say haskell has now moved away from being chosen at 8, and will be classed as a 6/7 now.

I don't think Dowson is good enough at any of the 3 positions he plays to be regarded as top 3. Given Clark's form at the end of last season it will be interesting to see if Dowson is first choice in any position for Saints by the end of next season.

Saull isn't first choice and so can't be in the list. Fourie has to be there, and hopefully Mercer and Rees will be there by the end of the upcoming season. I think Fearns will soon be making an appearance at number 8, and I wouldn't be surprised if Haskell settled at 8 upon his return to Wasps.

Nottins Jones Barritt has an English mother. Botha is EQP. If I am not allowed him then one of the other Leicester 2nd rowers.

Funnyexiledscot I thought he started vs Leicester at WR. Not a big enough match? He is always in the 22. He is the completely opposite of Burger. Also he started all the big matches in the 2009-10 season. I can understand your changes though.

DaveM I would prefer the 2nd choice openside flanker for the AP champions than a guy who can't get signed up by a good side (not even a top 8 side!). Fourie is top 10 for missed tackles in the AP!

I also selected Saull as he is a proper openside. Not a 6.5 like Moody,Robshaw etc.

Fourie is obviously overrated which is why I don't include him. I have seen him being blown away - by two sides with South Africans in them - South African obviously and Saracens.

By your logic Cole should not be in the England side or my list as Castro is first choice in the big matches for Leicester.

Being 2nd choice for one of the best sides in England could actually be better than 1st choice for weaker sides.

robshaw4england except I personally rate neither. If you actually think two overrated players are better than fair enough!

Geordiefalcon I agree but wouldn't say Guest is quite there yet.

Banahan is a good player but where does he fit in? He is in limbo at the moment in my opinion.

"By your logic Cole should not be in the England side or my list as Castro is first choice in the big matches for Leicester.

Being 2nd choice for one of the best sides in England could actually be better than 1st choice for weaker sides."


I guess the big difference being that Cole has already demonstrated that he is an international class prop.

He wouldn't if he wasn't given the chance would he? Saull is only 22. I wonder that if he played for a weak side would he be picked. Seems to work for numerous England players.

beshocked wrote:He wouldn't if he wasn't given the chance would he? Saull is only 22. I wonder that if he played for a weak side would he be picked. Seems to work for numerous England players.

Well there certainly is some truth in that. When Cole started for Leicester, he got picked by England and was able to demonstrate his abilities. From then on he's a proven international prop and it doesn't really hurt him that he plays impact prop for Leicester rather than starts (in fact it probably helps keep him injury free). But certainly to win that initial call up, you need to be starting for your side and showing form for that side. I can't think of many exceptions to that.

With Burger well installed at the club as the preferred 7 in the crunch games, I wonder whether Saull might want to think about a move. Tom Guest has similar issues at Quins I think, as will Owen Farrell next season, when Hodgson takes the 10 jersey. Likewise Doran-Jones at Northampton. Although he has proven himself at international level, it'll be hard to fend off the challenge from Wilson, Corbisiero, Stevens et al watching Mujati play.

I agree that being a squad player at a title challenging side rather than a star player at a relegation threatened side shouldn't be conclusive of ability or suitability to play international rugby, but it's hard to justify that initial call-up, displacing an established squad member, if you aren't starting games.

Having seen him up close in Cardiff, both beating and stopping the lord our Bod.

I would have to say Foden.

Had not been as big a fan before that. He really has come on a lot since he stopped being a scrum half and settled at FB.

Does it show that I don't see that many AP games?

funnyexiledscot just a few points - he pretty much started every match in 2009-10 as first choice openside flanker.

In the last 6-7 games of that season him and the rest of the side tore defences to shreds. He scored 2 tries in the demolition of Quins at Wembley including one of the best tries of the season which got nominated.

As I have said on other threads - Burger and Saull are completely different players. One is about fierce hard hitting tackling and aggressive workrate, the other is about pace and dynamism. Saull is better as an impact player as he is one of the quickest flankers around. If Saracens decide to play a more expansive style Saull is man to have in the backrow.

Also another point during the world cup Saull will show everyone why he is one of the best opensides in the AP.

Jennifer mcladyboy I don't think there is much argument Foden is the best English full back at the moment.

Hang-on though, you've dedicated much time on these boards to talking about form, and now you want a Saracens player picked based on his performances in 2009??

Are you arguing that he should be picked now, or that he should have been given a chance in the 2009-2010 season?

I'm not doubting his class (I think he's a good player), just that it's very hard to pick a player in 2011 that in the same year is second choice at his club, regardless of whether he's a "different type of player" to the incumbent. Certainly, as distinct from Dan Cole, he hasn't proven himself an international class player.

As you say, the WC is the perfect time for him to prove himself, and to ensure that when Burger returns, Burger (or Brown) is the one who has to sit on the bench. If your view of Fourie is correct, he won't do well enough at Sale to hold off the challenge from Saull, Haskell will also be out of the picture abroad, which means it'll come down to a physically broken Moody, Wood or Saull for the England 7 shirt (I still see Robshaw as a 6).

You misunderstand me. I personally rate him as one of the best openside flankers in the league. Do I expect anyone else let alone MJ to agree? No. Of course I am biased but because I have seen him live I can appreciate his abilities.Also as I said he is one of only a few true opensides. Most are 6.5s in my opinion.

Saull has played more games than you think. He has been involved in all the big matches even if some off the bench even this year in 2010-11. Whenever he comes on he does a good job.

I hope you are right. Saull or Wood fighting for the 7 shirt would be great.

Would I pick Saull instead of Fourie? Most definitely.

One is an 22 Englishman playing for the AP champions. The other a South African 31 year old journeyman plying his trade for the weakest clubs in the AP. One is known for his pace and try scoring abilities, the other is top 10 for missed tackles in the AP.

http://www.premiershiprugby.com/premiership/stats/missedtackles.php

No 1. Dave Walder 32
No 2. Tom Johnson 24
No 3. Phil Dowson 20
No 4.Roger Wilson 20
No 5.Jimmy Gopperth 19
No 6.David Strettle 19
No 7.Schalk Brits 17
No 8.Phil Dollman 17
No 9. Manu Tuilagi 17
No 10. Hendre Fourie 16


Ouch two players touted for England as flankers and 3 in the England squad. Not impressed by the two Sarries guys! Admittedly Brits and Strettle have played a lot of games but still....

Don't get too hung up on those stats, far better to trust your judgment. Tom Johnson has had an outstanding season for Exeter and is a top talent - absolutley no question.

No.8 - Easter, Narraway. (No other genuine English options)

Crane, Fearns, Grey, Guest, Morgan, Ward-Smith?

Personally I'd go for;

Props; Cole, PDJ, Stevens, Wilson, Sheridan, Corbisiero
Hooker; Hartley, Thompson, Webber
Lock; Deacon, Lawes, Parling, Hudson, Shaw, Attwood
Blindside; Croft, Johnson, Robshaw
Openside; Moody, Wood, Saull (maybe Armitage if he hadn't swanned off to France)
8; Easter, Crane, Narraway
SH; Youngs, Care, Hodgson
10; Flood, Hodgson, Clegg
IC; Allen, Barritt, Twelvetrees
OC; Manu, Tindall, Trinder (tough call between him and Lowe)
Wing; Ashton, Sharples, Cueto, Banahan, JSD, Short
FB; Foden, Brown, Goode

Ouch two players touted for England as flankers and 3 in the England squad. Not impressed by the two Sarries guys! Admittedly Brits and Strettle have played a lot of games but still....

I'd look at the percentage missed. It may well be the flankers attempted a lot more tackles than anyone else and it only looks bad in isolation. In proportion it might actually be fine.

Roger Wilson and Tom Johnson are indeed in top 10 for tackles made so I can forgive them. Dowson and Fourie on the other hand... a certain inside centre has more tackles than both.

Sam pretty good list can't really argue with it but going to anyway.

Clegg? Seriously? Maybe it's just personal opinion. The two times I have seen him live he has capitulated. People do rate him though and I heard he did well vs Munster. He has potential but possibly lacks consistency?

Who is Hudson?

I can see for example Hodgson vs Simpson vs Wigglesworth. All very close in my opinion.

Hudson is the Newcastle captain. Lead the team well and is a good all rounder. Does well in the lineout and gets stuck in at the breakdown (bit of an enforcer as well).

I like Clegg he's a very good all rounder, a little raw in certain aspects but he controls a game magnificently and has options to his game. He can play the tactical game but also bring the ball to the gain line and play flat and attack. Come on leaps and bounds this season after some rather patchy displays the season before.

I can see for example Hodgson vs Simpson vs Wigglesworth. All very close in my opinion..

Depends heavilly on the type of player you need. Which will depend on your pack and your ten. I went for Hodgson because he's a proper little general and a real grafter. Makes sure his ten gets decent ball and doesn't have to take any rubbish.

On the scrum half debate I prefer Simpson as 3rd choice. Blistering pace and he offers that game breaking quality that the others lack. Hodgson would be next, a great tempo scrum half in the classic mould. The most Scottish of all England's scrum halves (and that's a compliment).

I'm afraid I see Wigglesworth as pretty average to be honest, but I've no doubt Beshocked will correct me and point out that he's a tactical genius.

Whilst Youngs is at the WC, I think we'll see Micky Young emerge as a cracking little player. A little ignored up at Newcastle in my view.

I'd say that's a little harsh on Wigglesworth, he's a very efficient scrum half and has an excellent passing and kicking range. Can even play fly half if pushed. Doesn't make as many breaks as he used to, an area of his game I expected to re-surface at Sarries but sadly it hasn't. Has managed Farrell brilliantly this season and took on a good portion of the tactical kicking and decision making in order to limit the pressure on the young man.

Micky Young will get plenty of time to lay down a marker and is likely to revolved with Youngs on a regular basis (much to the despair of Jerry) in a Cole/Castro type of way. Young Sam Harrison is worth looking out for in the Tigers ranks a scrum half with not as much pace or game breaking ability as the others (though he is certainly no slouch) but has a massive pass which goes at the speed of a bullet.

Funnyexiledscot

Wigglesworth is a good solid scrum half in my opinion. He doesn't have the speed or x factor of other scrum halves like Care,Youngs,Simpson etc. On the other hand he has got a good pass though and is calm under pressure. You won't see him get flustered or give away silly penalties. He also has good control.

I absolutely agree with Sam's description of Wigglesworth.

It's hard to compare him to those other scrum halves as he is simply different in my opinion.

I think Tom Wood...will make one of the England back row places his own this season.
I really think he "could" have the ability to play at the level of Richard Hill...

Now thats a huge statement i know....but im particularly drawing it off the Ireland game....where an England team getting battered by a marauding Ireland pack....and one young man stood out for England ...Tom Wood.
He has pace, power, lineout skills, and is great at the breakdown....but moreso...he just gets on with it....with no fuss...and almost under the radar....

Geordiefalcon don't get ahead of yourself. Maybe he will maybe he won't.

Also would prefer if Wood was the next Dallaglio or next Greenwood rather than Hill!

Now thats a huge statement i know....but im particularly drawing it off the Ireland game....where an England team getting battered by a marauding Ireland pack....and one young man stood out for England ...Tom Wood

I thought the locks did quite well until Palmer went off and Deacon seemed a little stranded. I thought the main problem was how wide the IC and the front row drifted. They gave no support and little options to the half backs or the two/three individuals try to swim against the tide at the breakdown. Thommo and Crofty brought a bit more when they came on but by then the savaging had been done.

I don't think there's any reason that Wood and Croft can't play alongside each other both are more powerful than they look and if the 8 and the locks can provide the grunt then it should work. I don't see that there's much power difference between Wood and Moody, the Moody/Croft combo certainly works.

Geordie - he's a top prospect Wood, and made a real impact this season coming through with England. He and Robshaw look set to have a real battle for England jerseys in the future.

On Wigglesworth, I thought he was better a couple of seasons back with Sale personally. Seemed to have a bit more zip about him. This season I thought he was unduly slow at times in moving the ball. That may be deliberate tactics, and he is undoubtedly a good kicker of the ball from 9, but I think a top international 9 needs to offer more of a threat from the base of the ruck, as per Youngs, Care, Simpson and Hodgson.

If England were to adopt a slow box kicking style game, as per the tactics from several sides at the last WC and straight from the P Divvy training manual, then Wigglesworth would be an excellent choice.

I guess Beshocked does make the point. If you wanted a 9 to contrast with Youngs and Care, then Wigglesworth probably gives you that tactical diversity.

I think Fourie is a long way ahead of Saull - real physcial presence and excellent over the ball. Saull went backwards last season and needs to re-establish himself as a first choice player if he wants to pregress.

I agree that Clegg is starting to look like a fine player. It'll be interesting to watch him this season.

However, I can't see Harrison getting much game-time. He's not got the right coach for that......

Fair enough DaveM I base my opinions of Fourie being massively overrated on a few points:


Andy Saull outplayed him when Saracens crushed Leeds this season.

Fourie getting absolutely smashed by his fellow countryman in the Ais.

His high amount of missed tackles in the AP

Has less HC and big match experience than most.

Only 2 years AP experience for a 31 year old.

As Fourie plays for the worst sides in the AP is it really that hard to look good?


You must explain to me if Fourie so good why a top 8 side hasn't snapped him up. He wouldn't get into the Harlequins,Saracens,Leicester,Saints,Bath or Gloucester squads.

Fair point Saull went backwards by winning an AP title with his team.

On 606 v1 I had this conversation with thesnowmonkey and I kept pummeling him with stats that he couldn't keep up with.

Saull is quicker,better defender, scores more tries etc.

What are Fourie's strengths in your opinion? I have picked on his defence which is poor, his try scoring record is poor. What is he actually good at?

Could people please tell me why Fourie is rated so highly by evidently a sizeable contingent on 606 and MJ?

His high amount of missed tackles in the AP

It's more important to look at the proportion of missed compared to attempted. He may well have missed twice as many as Saull but if he attempted 5 times as many (which is possible what with Leeds spending most of the season defending) then proportionally he might be a better tackler. He is certainly better at carrying the ball in the tight exchanges but is he better at that than Steffon Armitage? That's debatable.

Sam how do you know he is better in the tight exchanges than Steffon Armitage or Andy Saull?

As I said before Fourie isn't in top 10 tackles for tackles made so proportionately his tackles made to tackles missed ratio will be poor. There are 3 flankers in the top 10 for missed tackles, 2 of them are also in top 10 for tackles made. Fourie is not.

Both Armitage and Saull score a lot more tries than Fourie.

I was actually easing to the view that Armitage was a better ball carrier. Saull takes the ball on in the wider channels, that's just the nature of his play and probabley why he was resigned to the bench under the current Sarries tactics. Fourie takes the ball on around the fringes more as he doesn't have Saull's speed, he is quite handy at making hard yards.

I'm not a Fourie fan but he isn't quite as bad as you make him out to be.

Sam I simply don't think he is good enough for England. Also most top clubs in England wouldn't sign him and haven't.

At Saracens I wouldn't take him as he would essentially be an overpaid squad player. Being South African would have worked in his favour with the management but he isn't as good as any of our backrow players bar Melck.

Be honest - would you have wanted him at Leicester?

Quins have a good backrow and depth so have no need of him. Northampton have Dowson and Wood so would have no need. Gloucester's backrow is too strong. Bath have signed two good backrowers but also have Moody.

Only London Irish and Wasps could have been in the market but neither team set the world alight last season.

I just think there are a lot more younger better players out there.

Well no but then again I didn't particularly want Salvi at Tigers either. I was rather hoping that we'd use this season to trial one of Armes or Watson at 7 as both are decent prospects. Particularly Armes who is likely to move on soon if he doesn't see any action and that would be a waste as he can play along the backrow, is a pain to the opposition at the breakdown and carries the ball well under pressure (the only decent performance against the Ospreys in the LVC in which he scored from ten metres out going through 3 tacklers). Watson is a Scottish under 20 regular and a promising stocky 7.

I think Fourie's age and wage demands ruled him out of a move to any of the big teams.

I notice that Hamish Watson is also part of the Scotland 7's set-up this season, so I suspect isn't integral to Leicester's short term plans.

Won't Ben Woods be fit for the start of the season? He looks a decent player, just a shame that he lost so much time last season to injury.

Well Hamish Watson is very young but Tigers do have a habit of blooding youngsters early in order to give them a quick taster and then send them back to the academy with a better sense of what they need to improve on and aim for. Was hoping he'd get a run out off of the bench in order to gain that bit of experience. Playing on the 7's circuit will be good for him though.

Ben Woods should be fit but struggled for form last season and never really came back to his best following his injuries. Might see him combine with Salvi on the flanks early in the season. Never really hit the heights since the end of the 2009 season when he was awesome.

That's a shame about Woods - I really rate him, and was surprised when Leicester snapped up Salvi.

I rate Woods as well and I think the management do. Cockers certainly isn't sentimental and if a player can't do the job they are got rid of fairly quickly.

Salvi wasn't a great suprise we have certainly needed some more breakdown nastiness and he brings that. Newby's injury is a massive blow and cover was certainly needed. Was rather hoping for a) a better player than Salvi or b) someone less likely to get in the way of the academy prospects but hey ho. We'll support Salvi and I'm sure we'll improve him.

Sam that's my point though. Most clubs would rather sign for Saull in my opinion

Actually I might make a nice little experiment. Pick head to heads if you could one of two players who would you sign.

Well neither Saull or Fourie really forfill the requirements for a Tigers 7. The Tigers backrow generally works from a dynamic blindside that gets round the park and makes tackles and supports the backs (Croft/MoodyMafi), openside who tackles hard and generally gets on with the dark arts of the ruck stuff (Back/Jennings) and then an old school work horse 8 who puts himself about and generally adds some grunt (think Corry/Richards/Crane). It's why Waldrom doesn't often start as he offers a bit of 6 and a bit of 8 but not really enough of each to dislodge Croft or Crane.

Tigers have struggled a little of late because the seven hasn't had the required darks arts technique to prove enough of a thorn in the opponents side (particularly against Sarries). Woods offers generally what we need though not at an international level of skill and he is a bit of a sick note. Newby's work rate generally cover his deficiency in savviness but not against the big teams (Leinster, Perpignan and Sarries for instance). Steffon Armitage would have been a good fit as he's an effort to shift once he's latched on. The ideal signing would be Brussow (realistically anyway, as let's face it Pocock and McCaw will never leave their respective countries). Salvi's job is well defined but a few Tigers fans are concerned about his penalty happy nature.

Im looking forward to Tom REES starting again for Wasps and hopefully having an injury free run to put him into contention for 2012 6Ns.

I don't remember Fourie having a particularly bad time against SA (who were highly physical that day).

Playing for Saracens is a hell of a lot easier than playing for Leeds. I'd imagine he is asked to make far more 30:70 tackles due to issues with the rest of the defence compared to playing in the well drilled defensive unit that is Sarries.

I'm not sure why the fact he was a late developer is relevant to the question of who is currently the better 7.

I believe LI were expecting to sign Fourie, but he chose Sale instead. Who knows, maybe he likes the north or Sale were prepared to pay the most. I actually think Sale have an outside chance of making the top 6 this season, so he has certainly progressed from Leeds.

What do I like about him? He's got serious physical presence, he carries effectively and he gets over the ball and slows it up. I think he's the best 7 in the AP.

As for Saull being associated with Saracens success - I could have joined them, not played and I'd still have been at the club when they won the AP. Saull had a disappointing season and could easily find his career drifting from here - he's quick but he lacks physical presence for me. I hope he has a good start to the season or I reckon he'll be looking for a new club this time next year.

DaveM we will have to agree to disagree. I thought Fourie was part of a England pack completely outmuscled and I noticed him in particular getting smashed.

Not really easier playing for Saracens as you actually have to play against much better sides on a more regular basis. E.g. in the HC,AP semi and final.

How does a tackle really differ? You either get your man or not.

London Irish haven't got a great backrow after losing Armitage so I can understand wanting an average seven. They have signed an average inside centre after all.

Going from 12th to 10th is progress true! Connacht are proud of that too but some clubs and fans have higher aspirations!

Who do you support? Would you have him at your club?

I would happily bet Sale won't qualify for the HC. I looked at their side and can't say I am particularly impressed by it. Certainly a shadow of their AP winning team.

True but Saull actually played in the final. He has started in 12 games, replacement in 7 this season. Involved in 19 out of 23 Saracens games in the AP is not bad.

Saull is underrated except by obviously me. You have to tackle well to even be considered as a Saracens backrow. He is much quicker than Fourie. Saull's breakdown abilities are underrated too.

The point is none of the top clubs wanted Fourie bar London Irish who haven't got a good openside anyway after their better openside has left.

How does a tackle really differ? You either get your man or not.

You either stop him on the gainline, smash him back over the gainline or get driven past the gainline. Big differences in the last two. If you drive somebody back their forwards are likely to be offside (running backward to get to the ruck) where as you're forwards will be on the front foot and the opportunity to turn the ball over is greater. Burger does this weekly for Sarries hence why he is a constant in the team with Brown or Saull selected around him depending on the game plan.

Saull's breakdown abilities are underrated too.

I've never noticed that aspect of his play if I'm honest. He's a top link man and in a team wishing to attack with ball in hand he will flourish. Hence he should be delighted that Hodgson has signed and Farrell will be apprenticed to him rather than kick and chase merchant Hougaard.

Props - Cole,Stevens,Corbisierio,PDJ,Sheridan,Marler

Hookers - Hartley,Thompson,Mears

2nd Row - Lawes,Deacon,Attwood,Botha,Borthwick,Kennedy

Blindsides - Croft,Robshaw,Johnson

Opensides - Moody,Wood,Saull

No 8 - Easter, Dowson,Narraway

Scrum halves - Youngs,Care,Wigglesworth/Simpson

Fly halves - Flood,Hodgson,Farrell

Inside centres - Barritt,Allen,JTH

Outside centres - Tindall,Tuilagi,Lowe

Wingers - Ashton,Strettle,JSD,Monye,Sharples,Short

Full backs - Foden,Goode,Brown

Any amendments you'd make if doing this today?