Serving Stance

Hello People,

I have a question. I was watching a video online about serving stances as i'm having trouble with mine and i wondered if you guys have any tips.

When i was younger i used to like the Kafelnikov movement for my serve, but as i got taller it became ineffective (and less accurate). Now i'm struggling again and would like some tips.

Hi Clarke,
I'm sure there is a textbook way to serve, but my experience is that everybody develops their own way that works best for them, especially at amateur level. So personally, I'm a bit wary of trying to copy the action of any particular pro.

A couple of lessons with a coach could help, as long as they don't try to completely re-model it - then it's 6 months of lessons!
Or you could get someone to video you so you can look at your own action.

But I always try and break the service action into components so that when it goes wrong (a lot!) I can try to figure out which bit is wrong.
1. Clear idea of where you want the serve to go, how much spin/pace.
2. Ball toss
3. Service arm (bending the elbow, flat vs. spin)
4. Watch ball until moment of impact
5. Wrist snap

two tips:

1. Toss of the ball: 10 to 12 inches above your head
2. Leg position: Your right foot should be slightly behind your left foot.
3. Look at ther ball not at the court
4. Don't jump!

You cannot fail

Thanks very much for the advice!

4. Don't jump!

Is that correct? If you watch the pros they're usually off the floor when they hit the ball. I don't know if you'd classify it as jumping, but they definitely drive themselves up through the ball with their legs, lifting off the ground in the process:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe4MomUhq5k

Chazfazzer wrote:

4. Don't jump!

Is that correct? If you watch the pros they're usually off the floor when they hit the ball. I don't know if you'd classify it as jumping, but they definitely drive themselves up through the ball with their legs, lifting off the ground in the process:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe4MomUhq5k

It may be useful for a Pro to reach speeds over 100MPH but it makes only unnecessary confusion to someone who wants to get to serve consistently and effectively. The point is: you don't need to lift your left foot to generate power and accuracy. This video shows it in the cleanest possible way.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/video/10052011/58/mats-point-wilander-serving.html

Agree with JK. Natural momentum and 'reaching' up to strike the ball may generate upward movement and even lead to leaving the ground a bit, but it's never something I think about or deliberately go for.

Yeah I see your point Jeremy_Kyle - adding the leg drive into the equation can make timing hard. What I will say is that after I made the transition from just basically using my arm and shoulder to driving through with the legs and lifting off the floor when hitting the ball, I found it so much easier to get power behind the serve. However, this transition was quite long and frustrating, and involved a lot of framed serves! Also, the wrist snap that JuliusHMarx mentioned is very important as well; I find if my serve power is dropping it's often because I've unintentionally stopped snapping my wrist, so I sometimes have to make a concious effort to keep doing it.

Position - side on rather than square on otherwise no chance to serve properly

Ball toss - so you're arm is extended and slightly in front. Your toss needs to be consistent. Once you have the consistency then you can vary height, placement..etc dependant on the type of serve you after

Preparation - I teach kids to have their racket head as if they are scrubbing their back ensuring the correct chopper grip - that way when they swing it is as if they are throwing their racket at the ball rather than simply pushing at it. Once they master that then they can go on to develop a fuller service motion.

Rotation - the racket head should naturally come through onto the other side of your body i.e. left hand side if you are right handed.

My service motion is the only natural motion I have and never had to learn....I don't jump, I don't bounce the ball, it's almost like Goran's formula: one (toss) 2 (whack the ball - as hard as you can, of course).

I used to play a lot of volleyball and swam tons before taking up tennis, so the rotation was almost second nature to me.

I suppose toss is the most important bit, and if you start thinking about it then you're a gonner!

You don't bounce the ball? Blasphemy!

Chazfazzer wrote:You don't bounce the ball? Blasphemy!

\


I tried it once, just for a laugh, to see what it does , it totally shattered my focus

I usually bounce it a couple of times...I honestly don't know how Djokovic can bounce it so many times on some of his serves! I wonder what he's thinking about when he's doing it? 'Don't serve a double fault, don't serve a double fault, don't serve a double fault' maybe, or perhaps he's pondering some important philosophical questions?

noleisthebest wrote:My service motion is the only natural motion I have and never had to learn....I don't jump, I don't bounce the ball, it's almost like Goran's formula: one (toss) 2 (whack the ball - as hard as you can, of course).

I used to play a lot of volleyball and swam tons before taking up tennis, so the rotation was almost second nature to me.

I suppose toss is the most important bit, and if you start thinking about it then you're a gonner!

But at least you do several little jumps on your feet before serving??

Remember a deep knee bend as this makes your body move up to the ball.
There is alot of technicality to serving as you're reading above...best to get it right asap before bad habits sink in that become hard to unwind.
Some coaching lessons TBH would be very useful...

Jeremy_Kyle wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:My service motion is the only natural motion I have and never had to learn....I don't jump, I don't bounce the ball, it's almost like Goran's formula: one (toss) 2 (whack the ball - as hard as you can, of course).

I used to play a lot of volleyball and swam tons before taking up tennis, so the rotation was almost second nature to me.

I suppose toss is the most important bit, and if you start thinking about it then you're a gonner!

But at least you do several little jumps on your feet before serving??

No. cool as a cucumber. I do bounce the ball once or twice sometimes, but that's max! I just scan the opponent try to look mysterious and nonchalant and then serve the wide one 99% of the time . Recently I braved one on the T, but it had no bite, so keeping that one just to confuse

Also weight distribution is important. Its a 4 step serve in terms of how you move your weight back and forth on your front and back leg. To start you want to have your weight on your front foot, then you want to lean back on your back foot step, then lean forward again and toss the ball. Finally, throwing your weight back forward and striking. Its a 4 beat motion in terms of balance and weight distribution. Lean forward, lean back, lean forward ( and toss), and strike the ball.

Also make sure you use a continental grip, toss the ball off the finger tips, and really loosen your wrists and shoulders. You want have a very, very relaxed grip on the racquet head to be able to generate whip and racquet head speed.

socal1976 wrote:Also weight distribution is important. Its a 4 step serve in terms of how you move your weight back and forth on your front and back leg. To start you want to have your weight on your front foot, then you want to lean back on your back foot step, then lean forward again and toss the ball. Finally, throwing your weight back forward and striking. Its a 4 beat motion in terms of balance and weight distribution. Lean forward, lean back, lean forward ( and toss), and strike the ball.

Soc.: with all this movement back and forth looks like the serve of the drunkard your talking about here

socal1976 wrote:Also make sure you use a continental grip, toss the ball off the finger tips, and really loosen your wrists and shoulders. You want have a very, very relaxed grip on the racquet head to be able to generate whip and racquet head speed.

Yes, relaxed and loose. That's one of my problems - I get too tight when serving and have to remind myself to relax. Just one of the things on a little mental checklist before serving.
Not too relaxed a grip though or your racket will hurtle over the net along with the ball!

Jeremy_Kyle wrote:

socal1976 wrote:Also weight distribution is important. Its a 4 step serve in terms of how you move your weight back and forth on your front and back leg. To start you want to have your weight on your front foot, then you want to lean back on your back foot step, then lean forward again and toss the ball. Finally, throwing your weight back forward and striking. Its a 4 beat motion in terms of balance and weight distribution. Lean forward, lean back, lean forward ( and toss), and strike the ball.

Soc.: with all this movement back and forth looks like the serve of the drunkard your talking about here

This is how it was taught to me. I say lean but it isn't really a lean it is more like moving your weight back and forth between your front and back leg, it can be a very subtle movment that generates a great deal of pace. Like a pendulum and when you move back forward in the last time you are striking the ball with your weight going forward.

well, yes actually i can think of a couple of pros who served this way, boom boom Backer was one using a big swing, pendulum like, but I don't there are many of them around.....

Actually, pretty much everyone has a 4 point or 4 step service motion, Sampras, becker, Federer. Roddick is one where it is more of an up and down action as opposed to a forward and back. The shift is ever so subtle it isn't like you are hopping back and forth. And you also want to have your shoulders closed so that you only open up your shoulders at contact.

Soc: I am not questioning the fact that the body makes many different subtle movements during the serve: surely there is a movement forward with racket, followed by one backward to gather power and again forward to perform the actual serve, also at the same time there must be a move downwards and upwards. the point is: when you serve those movements are made instinctively and it strikes me that someone has taught you to focus on those subtle movements rather than to other more important technical points which if adhered imply the making of the correct movements......

Jeremy, I agree there is a lot more that goes into a serve. I made another post on the grip and the looseness of wrists. But there is a timing and rythymn with the weight distribution. Maybe I am just phrasing it in a manner that makes it sound like you are hoping back and forth or that this all that is important that isn't my intention. I was just commenting on this particular aspect.

Chazfazzer wrote:I usually bounce it a couple of times...I honestly don't know how Djokovic can bounce it so many times on some of his serves! I wonder what he's thinking about when he's doing it? 'Don't serve a double fault, don't serve a double fault, don't serve a double fault' maybe, or perhaps he's pondering some important philosophical questions?

I think he does it to shut out the noise, it's all a habit, and tennis habits are so deeply ingrained in those players they're just part of them.
That's one of the reasons tennis is such an attractive game: you can observe an individual so phenomenally closely and in detail, you can almost breathe with them, yo never get that with football or any other sport, tennis is something else, indeed, it's almost a travesty to call it sport

The stance should be a neutral stance (side on) but majority of bad service actions in adults come from the ball placements. Too far in front and you will consistently hit the net, too far back and it will go long.

I agree Chris for beginning players typically ball toss problems are often what results in a lot of service problems.

Not just beginners. I read that when Ivanovic has serving problems a couple of years ago her coach got her to throw the ball up 50 times without serving. Each ball toss was fine. Then he told her to serve - and the ball toss went AWOL.

Julius the best tips i have heard in regards to a toss are to throw the toss off the end of the fingers, not to high just at the top of your swing action. By rolling it off the end of the fingers you are guaranteed of more rotation and control on the toss. If the ball is released off the palm it will not come out well. Your release point should be at about 3 oclock, meaning that you should release the toss a little bit before you reach the top of your extension. And the best toss is one that is slightly out to the right of the right handed server. From that toss you can hit all the requisite serves you need.