Fantasy Fight: Gamboa vs Prince Naz

Following on from a comment on the Brit ATG list, who do you think wins this fantasy fight?

Gamboa (29) 20-0-0 16ko (80%) vs Naz (pre-Barrera) 35-0-0 31ko (89%)

Can see both fights going down at some point as for all Gamboa's speed and footwork there's never been anyone since that throws punches at the angles and power of Naz (and Gamboa's chin/legs are fairly untested at this stage). But Gamboa's speed and intensity when he gets going would eventually result in a mid-round kayo for my money.

Cracking tear-up I'd love to see. Gamboa KO6.

Hamed sways and rocks and gets clipped around by a fighter with bundles of speed who isn't afraid to mix it. After 5 knockdowns and 12 rounds later Gamboa takes a 120- 103 unanimous decision.....

Wouldn't be competitive.

Hamed by KO, Gamboa is quick but if it becomes anything like a tear up then very few at featherweight will be able to take Hameds power and still be standing.

Ghosty, Gamboa would be smacking Naz too often for it to be a tear up. Feel that Naz would simply resort to pot shotting a la MAB once Gamboa had outboxed him for periods.

Great fight, both capable of winning by KO, couldn't see it lasting the distance, tough one to call for me.

gamboa has the speed advantage but naz has more power and takes shots better, i think naz might get dropped but gamboa definitely will and more than once

gamboa might have the first 2 or 3 rounds but then get tagged and the momentum will shift

naz ko9

coxy0001 wrote:Ghosty, Gamboa would be smacking Naz too often for it to be a tear up. Feel that Naz would simply resort to pot shotting a la MAB once Gamboa had outboxed him for periods.

I'm slightly confused here, Hamed gets a bad reputation for losing to Barrera who most will agree is an all time great fighter but what intrigues me is that Gamboa who has faced near the level of fighters whom Hamed was beating comes out on top so easily? If we talk about the Hamed who faced Barrera then possibly but that was not the only version of him, he was far better than he showed that night, was getting tagged often against the very handed Sanchez but didn't resort to pot shotting and the same against Kelley.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:

coxy0001 wrote:Ghosty, Gamboa would be smacking Naz too often for it to be a tear up. Feel that Naz would simply resort to pot shotting a la MAB once Gamboa had outboxed him for periods.

I'm slightly confused here, Hamed gets a bad reputation for losing to Barrera who most will agree is an all time great fighter but what intrigues me is that Gamboa who has faced near the level of fighters whom Hamed was beating comes out on top so easily? If we talk about the Hamed who faced Barrera then possibly but that was not the only version of him, he was far better than he showed that night, was getting tagged often against the very handed Sanchez but didn't resort to pot shotting and the same against Kelley.

How many times did Hamed get dropped in his career? Quite a few.

And THAT night is his measuring stick. You can't say "oh but he was better than that" - he had to prove it against the best and he came up well short. I can walk round my local course in level par, put off the championship tees with championship setup at the Oxfordshire and i'm struggling to break 75. Same applies for Naz, he was found wanting and no matter of bulls**t excuses about training etc will solve that.

Gamboa carries the speed, more power than Naz and is just a better all round fighter. Trust me, this kid is gonna outstrip what Hamed did by about 10 times over. He's a monster at the weight.

Awkwardness only gets you so far.

coxy0001 wrote:I can walk round my local course in level par

Course you can

Coxy think you are confusing an excuse for a reason. Was Naz' own dumb fault he did not train as he should have for his biggest fight and because of that it in no way mitigates or excuses the loss but it would be absolutely naive and inaccurate to suggest that was him at his best or deny that in that fight and the few fights before it he was not a work in regression.

If tophat is asking who wins the fight based on Gamboa now against the Naz that lost to Barrera it is a fair and obvious measuring stick but if he is asking who wins with both fighters at their best then assessing one of the fighters at his worst is a little ridiculous.

Scottrf wrote:

coxy0001 wrote:I can walk round my local course in level par

Course you can

65 is still my record round there in general play (-6) and 69 in competition.

Haven't played since a year April so would need a couple of weeks on the range!

Then how can we say Gamboa is good enough to beat him when we have no measuring stick for him, can't have it both ways, in these match ups we consider the best of each fighter not the worst and in no shape or form does Gamboa carry more power than Naz. Aside from Saddler no one hit harder than Hamed at featherweight, once Gamboa steps up and proves himself against fighters better than Salido i'll eulogise over him more but until he does that I wont be considering him to be this monster featherweight because for all we know he could come unstuck as soon as he faces a world class fighter.

You're talking complete rubbish.

Scottrf wrote:You're talking complete rubbish.

Who?

rowley wrote:

Scottrf wrote:You're talking complete rubbish.

Who?

Coxy.

Hamed by early KO for me, after a Hagler-Hearns type of affair. Not sure why some people are so quick to dismiss Hamed these days - he was an all time great Featherweight.

Gamboa's gloves are a blur, but much like Hamed, he can and has been caught off guard a couple of times. As superb as Gamboa is (and I think he's going to get even better) he fights in the pocket and upclose almost exclusively, which is risky against Hamed to say the least. Gamboa befuddles Hamed for a couple of rounds with that speed, but eventually leaves himself wide open during one of those flurries and takes a hail mary of a shot from Hamed, who rarely (if ever) let an opponent off the hook once they were hurt. Gamboa's chin is a little untested at the very highest level, and even if it's made of stern stuff, that's no guarantee that it could withstand Hamed's freakish power at 126 lb.

Also, let's not forget that Hamed proved his mettle on more than one occasion; that first knockdown against Kelley would have finished many Featherweights. Thrilling while it lasts, but a Hamed KO in three or four rounds is where I'd put my money.

Scottrf wrote:You're talking complete rubbish.

Nope, i'm not giving my real name away which makes it hard.

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Imperial Ghosty wrote:Then how can we say Gamboa is good enough to beat him when we have no measuring stick for him, can't have it both ways, in these match ups we consider the best of each fighter not the worst and in no shape or form does Gamboa carry more power than Naz. Aside from Saddler no one hit harder than Hamed at featherweight, once Gamboa steps up and proves himself against fighters better than Salido i'll eulogise over him more but until he does that I wont be considering him to be this monster featherweight because for all we know he could come unstuck as soon as he faces a world class fighter.

Step up? I'm as big a fan of fighters testing themselves as the next guy but he's already totally dominated and outclassed Salido and Solis, alongside good wins over Mtagwa and Barros and he'll wipe-put PDL next in my opinion. There's only John (won't leave Asia) and Juanma (lost to a guy Gamboa schooled) left before he moves up to a rubbish SFW division (like Ricky Burns but he'd be blown away in 3 by Gamboa).

Who can he step up against to equal/better Naz's record (if he hasn't already surpassed it)?

coxy0001 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:You're talking complete rubbish.

Nope, i'm not giving my real name away which makes it hard.

Junior county player
Scratch single team player
Scratch foursomes team player

Fondly remembered (along with partner) for being -8 after 13 in one of our foursomes knockout quarter finals.

Want my set?

R7 Taylor made
Callaway X12 2 Iron
3-PW Hogan Apex
MW/SW/LW Clevelands
Odyssey White Hot putter

All dynamic golds with X100 shafts and a D2 swing weight.

Happy?

I've got a nice oven Coxy, doesn't make me Gordon Ramsey

OK you’re a cricketing legend at a young age hitting -8 through 13, going to uni then being a self employed web guru working long hours with a social life. You’d be winning amateur tournaments and strongly considering going pro. It's not a sport you dip in and out of and hit rounds like that.

Of course you wont give your name away, you’re a BS artist.

88Chris05 wrote:Hamed by early KO for me, after a Hagler-Hearns type of affair. Not sure why some people are so quick to dismiss Hamed these days - he was an all time great Featherweight.

Gamboa's gloves are a blur, but much like Hamed, he can and has been caught off guard a couple of times. As superb as Gamboa is (and I think he's going to get even better) he fights in the pocket and upclose almost exclusively, which is risky against Hamed to say the least. Gamboa befuddles Hamed for a couple of rounds with that speed, but eventually leaves himself wide open during one of those flurries and takes a hail mary of a shot from Hamed, who rarely (if ever) let an opponent off the hook once they were hurt. Gamboa's chin is a little untested at the very highest level, and even if it's made of stern stuff, that's no guarantee that it could withstand Hamed's freakish power at 126 lb.

Also, let's not forget that Hamed proved his mettle on more than one occasion; that first knockdown against Kelley would have finished many Featherweights. Thrilling while it lasts, but a Hamed KO in three or four rounds is where I'd put my money.

And if Hamed left himself as wide open as he did against Kelley (and others) Gamboa would take his head off his shoulders.

For me personally, he has the bigger punch. Can see him being a monster even after reaching 135/140 (where i think he'll end up as he's huge).

And to mention him as an all time great featherweight is severely stretching it, doesn't even make top 15 in my books. And if you want me to name those 15 i'm more than willing.

Scottrf wrote:OK you’re a cricketing legend at a young age hitting -8 through 13, going to uni then being a self employed web guru working long hours with a social life. You’d be winning amateur tournaments and strongly considering going pro. It's not a sport you dip in and out of and hit rounds like that.

Of course you wont give your name away, you’re a BS artist.

I didn't hit -8 thru 13, me and my partner did as it was foursomes. It did help he was also off +2 so was handy.

And no, i played enough national/regional stuff to realise that when any effing monkey who's good can play their own course in silly numbers. When have i said i've shot those numbers on a championship course? I said i could shoot level par with my eyes shut round my local - big deal. I also followed it up by saying i'd struggle to break 75 on a championship setup on a 7200+ course - that's why i knew i wasn't good enough to make it.

Playing behind Donald at one event also reinforced that as i played out of my skin yet was still 11 behind.

And i've played golf all my life, i was by far and a way better at it than cricket. And yes, if you gave me 2 weeks hitting 2000 balls a day i would quite easily be able to shoot a level par number round my local. It's called natural talent.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Then how can we say Gamboa is good enough to beat him when we have no measuring stick for him, can't have it both ways, in these match ups we consider the best of each fighter not the worst and in no shape or form does Gamboa carry more power than Naz. Aside from Saddler no one hit harder than Hamed at featherweight, once Gamboa steps up and proves himself against fighters better than Salido i'll eulogise over him more but until he does that I wont be considering him to be this monster featherweight because for all we know he could come unstuck as soon as he faces a world class fighter.

Step up? I'm as big a fan of fighters testing themselves as the next guy but he's already totally dominated and outclassed Salido and Solis, alongside good wins over Mtagwa and Barros and he'll wipe-put PDL next in my opinion. There's only John (won't leave Asia) and Juanma (lost to a guy Gamboa schooled) left before he moves up to a rubbish SFW division (like Ricky Burns but he'd be blown away in 3 by Gamboa).

Who can he step up against to equal/better Naz's record (if he hasn't already surpassed it)?

I would take Hameds ledger at Featherweight over that of Gamboas every day of the week as it stands, people use Barrera against Hamed but Gamboa hasn't been in with anyone approaching that level so until he does think opinions on him are going a bit overboard.

No stretch to call Hamed an all-time great Featherweight at all, Coxy. He had a spell of around four solid years where he was, beyond question, THE top man in the division. Sadly, as you're no fan of his, I get the impression that among that fifteen or so you'd include the likes of Gamboa, John, McGuigan etc, all of whom aren't in his class at 126 lb.

Defended his belt fifteen times successfully and added all the other major three straps at one stage or another. One defeat in his career, in which he lasted the distance, but people seem to forget that it was against a genuine great who was having arguably the best night of a glittering career. Among his victims were the long-serving IBF champion Johnson, the seemingly forever-reigning Super-Bantamweight titlist Bungu, former quality world champions such as McCullough, Kelley and Soto and a future champion in Ingle. He lost to the very best fighter he faced, but so too did Featherweight greats like Nelson, Kilbane, Pep (well, three out of four anyway) and Dixon. Not top ten, but probably top fifteen all-time at the weight. Thus far, Gamboa has done nothing to show that he's a better fighter than Hamed was, or even that he has a bigger punch as you claim.

coxy0001 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:You're talking complete rubbish.

R7 Taylor made
Callaway X12 2 Iron
3-PW Hogan Apex
MW/SW/LW Clevelands
Odyssey White Hot putter

All dynamic golds with X100 shafts and a D2 swing weight.

Makes about as much sense to me as an Android phone with Linux Kernals and Dalvik virtual machines.

I once hit a golf ball straight through a moving windmill. Hole in one. Great Yarmouth crazy golf course, July 2009.

Apparently it means if you have decent equipment it proves you are good at something. A revelation to me, but I'm all for it, am calling into JJB on the way home to spunk £250 on a pair of football boots, get McLeish on the phone Darren Bent is about to have a new strike partner.

Chris, my 15 would be (random order)

Pep
Attell
Armstrong
Sanchez
Saddler
Chocolate
Kilbane
Dixon
Arguello
Salvidar
Pedroza
Driscoll

And to be honest i'd probably have Naz 13th, so not quite outside my top 15 on reflection.

I'm actually interested in buying an M wedge. Where would I get one?

rowley wrote:Apparently it means if you have decent equipment it proves you are good at something. A revelation to me, but I'm all for it, am calling into JJB on the way home to spunk £250 on a pair of football boots, get McLeish on the phone Darren Bent is about to have a new strike partner.

The irons weren't that good.

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

coxy0001 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:You're talking complete rubbish.

R7 Taylor made
Callaway X12 2 Iron
3-PW Hogan Apex
MW/SW/LW Clevelands
Odyssey White Hot putter

All dynamic golds with X100 shafts and a D2 swing weight.

Makes about as much sense to me as an Android phone with Linux Kernals and Dalvik virtual machines.

I once hit a golf ball straight through a moving windmill. Hole in one. Great Yarmouth crazy golf course, July 2009.

That stupid bitch put my Calloway bag in the Garden while we were moving, lasted about 10 minutes and it was gone, no clubs were in it but my good umbrella was.

Scottrf wrote:I'm actually interested in buying an M wedge. Where would I get one?

Gap wedge. Cleveland have always been and are still the best. Ebay would suffice.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cleveland-588-Tour-Action-Chrome-Gap-Wedge-53-/220819673002?pt=UK_SportsLeisure_Golf_GolfClubs_JN&hash=item3369e0cfaa

That ones one of the old school steel options, prefered gun metal myself.

And just so windy doesn't tell us off:

Give Gamboa time to beat everyone, and he will, and he'll be the breaking into the top 10 FWs. Just think he's that good.

coxy0001 wrote:

rowley wrote:Apparently it means if you have decent equipment it proves you are good at something. A revelation to me, but I'm all for it, am calling into JJB on the way home to spunk £250 on a pair of football boots, get McLeish on the phone Darren Bent is about to have a new strike partner.

The irons weren't that good.

You ain't seen me play football

Gap wedge. Cleveland have always been and are still the best.

--------------------------------------------------------

Have an old Lob Wedge by Cleveland that Seve done, great little club for round the greens.

88Chris05 wrote:Hamed by early KO for me, after a Hagler-Hearns type of affair. Not sure why some people are so quick to dismiss Hamed these days - he was an all time great Featherweight.

Gamboa's gloves are a blur, but much like Hamed, he can and has been caught off guard a couple of times. As superb as Gamboa is (and I think he's going to get even better) he fights in the pocket and upclose almost exclusively, which is risky against Hamed to say the least. Gamboa befuddles Hamed for a couple of rounds with that speed, but eventually leaves himself wide open during one of those flurries and takes a hail mary of a shot from Hamed, who rarely (if ever) let an opponent off the hook once they were hurt. Gamboa's chin is a little untested at the very highest level, and even if it's made of stern stuff, that's no guarantee that it could withstand Hamed's freakish power at 126 lb.

Also, let's not forget that Hamed proved his mettle on more than one occasion; that first knockdown against Kelley would have finished many Featherweights. Thrilling while it lasts, but a Hamed KO in three or four rounds is where I'd put my money.

Does he fight in the pocket? One of the things I like about Gamboa is that he has that Cuban amateur style where he fights from the outside, coming in attacking, rather than concentrating on working the inside as you'd expect a usually shorter fighter to do. Big fan on Naz but still still see Gamboa taking this one, just, with plenty of scares along the way. If Naz couldn't get that super-shot off I think the best he can hope for is losing by UD due to Gamboa's greater output and accuracy.

coxy0001 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:You're talking complete rubbish.

Nope, i'm not giving my real name away which makes it hard.

Junior county player
Scratch single team player
Scratch foursomes team player

Fondly remembered (along with partner) for being -8 after 13 in one of our foursomes knockout quarter finals.

Want my set?

R7 Taylor made
Callaway X12 2 Iron
3-PW Hogan Apex
MW/SW/LW Clevelands
Odyssey White Hot putter

All dynamic golds with X100 shafts and a D2 swing weight.

Happy?

I was taking all this in until i read 'fondly remembered'

Seriously, why'd you quit playing?

Imperial Ghosty wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Then how can we say Gamboa is good enough to beat him when we have no measuring stick for him, can't have it both ways, in these match ups we consider the best of each fighter not the worst and in no shape or form does Gamboa carry more power than Naz. Aside from Saddler no one hit harder than Hamed at featherweight, once Gamboa steps up and proves himself against fighters better than Salido i'll eulogise over him more but until he does that I wont be considering him to be this monster featherweight because for all we know he could come unstuck as soon as he faces a world class fighter.

Step up? I'm as big a fan of fighters testing themselves as the next guy but he's already totally dominated and outclassed Salido and Solis, alongside good wins over Mtagwa and Barros and he'll wipe-put PDL next in my opinion. There's only John (won't leave Asia) and Juanma (lost to a guy Gamboa schooled) left before he moves up to a rubbish SFW division (like Ricky Burns but he'd be blown away in 3 by Gamboa).

Who can he step up against to equal/better Naz's record (if he hasn't already surpassed it)?

I would take Hameds ledger at Featherweight over that of Gamboas every day of the week as it stands, people use Barrera against Hamed but Gamboa hasn't been in with anyone approaching that level so until he does think opinions on him are going a bit overboard.

Agreed (for now). So who does he need to fight and can he ever match Naz's record given the apparent paucity of fighters around at 126/130 at the moment?

Much depends on what Donaire does, if he steps up to featherweight and fights Gamboa I fully expect Nonito to win in pretty conclusive style.

milkyboy wrote:

coxy0001 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:You're talking complete rubbish.

Nope, i'm not giving my real name away which makes it hard.

Junior county player
Scratch single team player
Scratch foursomes team player

Fondly remembered (along with partner) for being -8 after 13 in one of our foursomes knockout quarter finals.

Want my set?

R7 Taylor made
Callaway X12 2 Iron
3-PW Hogan Apex
MW/SW/LW Clevelands
Odyssey White Hot putter

All dynamic golds with X100 shafts and a D2 swing weight.

Happy?

I was taking all this in until i read 'fondly remembered'

Seriously, why'd you quit playing?

Competitive cricket is more fun than competitive golf at the age i am now, not gonna be playing in any national events so just having a break. Will probs go back to it once i've packed in cricket, only local area stuff though so probs get back to 4 or something.

For the guys with kids - get them into golf, teaches them how to behave around adults and is a great sport for teaching manners and etiquette.

And back to Naz

Donaire beating Gamboa? I don't think they'll meet, as much as i'd like them to, and if they do it won't be until 135/140 where i think Gamboa will top out at. Not sure Donaire gets there, too much to say who beats who as one might not carry their speed etc up. But if Donaire came to FW tomorrow he'd get his arris completely handed to him, be a mismatch.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Much depends on what Donaire does, if he steps up to featherweight and fights Gamboa I fully expect Nonito to win in pretty conclusive style.

brave statement ghosty, be a cracking fight for sure. Gamboa might still not be really tested, but nothing to suggest yet that he'll jsut roll over when he is. the poncemeister will be a decent test.

Donaire is a special special fighter who has been tested at the highest level twice against Vic Dar and Montiel, the brutal nature of the knockout in both instances is enough to convince me he would take care of Gamboa. It's a fight I really want to see and do think that Donaire would win by a fairly early knockout.

... milky junior will be playing golf if he wants to coxy and i hope he putts better than his father. As for etiquette, well, i'll certainly be using it to demonstate what pompous pratts who take themself too seriously look like, and hope he learns from those that aren't and don't.

coxy0001 wrote:

milkyboy wrote:

coxy0001 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:You're talking complete rubbish.

Nope, i'm not giving my real name away which makes it hard.

Junior county player
Scratch single team player
Scratch foursomes team player

Fondly remembered (along with partner) for being -8 after 13 in one of our foursomes knockout quarter finals.

Want my set?

R7 Taylor made
Callaway X12 2 Iron
3-PW Hogan Apex
MW/SW/LW Clevelands
Odyssey White Hot putter

All dynamic golds with X100 shafts and a D2 swing weight.

Happy?

I was taking all this in until i read 'fondly remembered'

Seriously, why'd you quit playing?

For the guys with kids - get them into golf, teaches them how to behave around adults and is a great sport for teaching manners and etiquette.

Coxy, I go running up my local heath which just happens to be where the golf course is. If I even go within 100 yards of them, they all, men and women, look at me like I have defiled all their daughters. Despite the fact the heath, and all it's public walkways, has been there for thousands of years and the golf course for about 20.

Think I will rely on my parenting techniques to teach my kids how to behave around adults.

So bums to you.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Donaire is a special special fighter who has been tested at the highest level twice against Vic Dar and Montiel, the brutal nature of the knockout in both instances is enough to convince me he would take care of Gamboa. It's a fight I really want to see and do think that Donaire would win by a fairly early knockout.

i rate donaire too, ghosty, certainly done a number on a better class of fighter than gamboa, smaller guy though and not every filipino will have manny's weight gain prowess. Hope it happens 1 day.

Montiel was a big big bantamweight who from memory had only been down once in his career prior to Donaire, weight could be a factor but Donaire will hold the speed and power advantanges despite being the smaller man, he also has pretty good counter punching ability too.

no doubting he can dig, darchinyan wasn't canvas backed... nor sydorenko. We know more about donaire than gamboa, hence why i'm reserving judgement should they meet

It's true that Gamboa is still very much an unknown quantity which may be why i'd favour Donaire who after taking care of another fighter or two at bantamweight will most probably move straight to featherweight.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:It's true that Gamboa is still very much an unknown quantity which may be why i'd favour Donaire who after taking care of another fighter or two at bantamweight will most probably move straight to featherweight.

I'm with you Ghosty - I see Donaire winning this one in a cracking fight, I've said it before - Donaire is an exceptional fighter, a future all time great if he continues. He does need to fight more often though - but his legal troubles seem to be behind him finally. I think he is back in November. Hopefully he steps up next year and we can see the Gamboa/Donaire match happen.

For the guys with kids - get them into golf, teaches them how to behave around adults and is a great sport for teaching manners and etiquette.
==================
How to be a snob?

Play a real sport.

For all those saying Gamboa will KO Hamed people are forgetting the main problem with fighting Hamed was not so much his power (although that was mighty dangerous) but the fact he was so difficult to hit properly.

In the run up to his Featherweight reign he was taking on seasoned fighters who couldn't get anywhere near him. He was an elusive slippery eel with firghtening power and only a multi-championship-bout fighter in Barrera had the nous on how to deal with him. Gamboa might come out looking flash and powerful but it would be him kissing canvas more times than Hamed. Naseem by KO around the 5th.

I was never a massive Hamed fan by the way, and think he's a bit of an 4rse...

Lumbering_Jack wrote:For the guys with kids - get them into golf, teaches them how to behave around adults and is a great sport for teaching manners and etiquette.
==================
How to be a snob?

Play a real sport.

Like Rugby? Yup, tick - played that. Not amazingly good to be fair.

And the toughest sport out of everything i've played? Golf.

Suggest you take your stereotypes and shove them up your arris as well.