The game that dare not speak its name : Ireland v England 27 August

First topic message reminder :

This is a match between the two top European sides. Neither of which can harbour realistic hopes of ulimate success.
But local bragging rights always count for something.

England need to lay the GS demons to rest.
Ireland have less to prove (especially if they beat France).

But momentum is everything - even if not in this case to the RWC, then the next four years where I'd hope to see this fixture as the final in 2015.

Last time out Ireland stood on England's throats and squeezed the life out of them.
But MJ will be expecting to restore pride and to win in Dublin.

And DK will not be ignorant to this.

So that makes it a full-on Test Match. Like it or like it not.
Irrespective of the RWC.

It means more to England, but momentum matters.

D'Arcy at his best is better than Wallace at his best.

However D'Arcy is running at 60% and Wallace is running at 85%.
That is enough to tip the balance in Wallace's favour

AlynDavies wrote:Ireland all the way for me, those English players won;t forget the hammering there last time and Ireland seem to dislike the English more than anyone these days.

A personal attack on England rather than a decent reply to a decent post. You taffs just cant help yourself can you?

TheGreyGhost wrote:

Portnoy wrote:This is a match between the two top European sides.

Didn't Wales become the top European side when they defeated the grandslam 6 Nations champions?

ah yes, a win in a World Cup warm up match against a weakened English side....
Ghost - you never disappoint...

Portnoy wrote:This is a match between the two top European sides. Neither of which can harbour realistic hopes of ulimate success.
But local bragging rights always count for something.

England need to lay the GS demons to rest.
Ireland have less to prove (especially if they beat France).

But momentum is everything - even if not in this case to the RWC, then the next four years where I'd hope to see this fixture as the final in 2015.

Last time out Ireland stood on England's throats and squeezed the life out of them.
But MJ will be expecting to restore pride and to win in Dublin.

And DK will not be ignorant to this.

So that makes it a full-on Test Match. Like it or like it not.
Irrespective of the RWC.

It means more to England, but momentum matters.

To be honest, I would say that this match is absolutely vital to how both teams progress in the RWC. Ireland losing all of their warm up matches will batter their confidence and for England to win only one of their warm up matches, (against Wales at Twickenham which should be a given) will have a similar effect...

Wallace was very good off lineouts and scrums near our line of running straight then stepping inside to get beyond the tackle then placing the ball back.

No Eire I like ROG and Sexton was interesting and a good weapon to have. Would never start them like that though

It's must win for Ireland. Not even a draw would be acceptable. However, it looks like they will lose

Why does it look like we will lose?

Has Wallace ever played well in tandem with Sexton? Against Scotland I didn't think that combination worked particularly well, and I feel that Sexton works better when paired with a more physical/direct player at 12. I'm not saying Paddy Wallace is incapable of playing that role, just that he's more a running/distributing type of 12, rather than a hard direct runner.

I still think Ireland missed a trick by not looking more closely at James Downey this year. He has many limitations to his game, but I wonder whether he'd have been the ball carrier in the backs that allowed others to shine. That Kidney opted to look at McFadden ahead of Downey after Downey's performances for Northampton throughout the season strikes me as a gamble.

Given Ireland have this additional game, I'd be tempted to give a half each to D'Arcy and Wallace, to look at them both alongside Sexton and BOD. I think Kidney needs to nail down his preferred midfield.

leinsterbaby wrote:It's must win for Ireland. Not even a draw would be acceptable.

I disagree. Not losing players to injury is more important than winning. Confidence will not automatically materialise from one win, and it's certainly too late to talk about momentum. This Irish side already know what they are capable of, and have performed well as a team before. What Kidney now needs to do is ensure that his key players don't pick up injuries before the tournament.

RubyGuby wrote:Powell is a big number 8 for Wales and we usually calculate his overall contribution like this:

Weight
Rotation

Could you be talking about a golf buggy?

cabbagesandbrussels wrote:

TheGreyGhost wrote:

Portnoy wrote:This is a match between the two top European sides.

Didn't Wales become the top European side when they defeated the grandslam 6 Nations champions?

ah yes, a win in a World Cup warm up match against a weakened English side....
Ghost - you never disappoint...

There was me thinking that was England's 6 Nations team and the Wales side was weakened...

nottins_jones wrote:

cabbagesandbrussels wrote:

TheGreyGhost wrote:

Portnoy wrote:This is a match between the two top European sides.

Didn't Wales become the top European side when they defeated the grandslam 6 Nations champions?

ah yes, a win in a World Cup warm up match against a weakened English side....
Ghost - you never disappoint...

There was me thinking that was England's 6 Nations team and the Wales side was weakened...

fair play nottins stalker...

Many English fans making the trip for Saturday? Sold-out Aviva stadium. Should be a good day out.

Ye usually travel well to Dublin - the fans that is, not the players obviously.
(Then all go home worse for wear!

nottins stalker? Is that the best you could come out with...
Fair play though I was correct . About time some of you lot moved on from your loss.

HURLEY_BURLEY wrote:Many English fans making the trip for Saturday? Sold-out Aviva stadium. Should be a good day out.

Ye usually travel well to Dublin - the fans that is, not the players obviously.
(Then all go home worse for wear!

The cucumber frame is pretty small for an international stadium.

So it depends on the seats available for travelling fans.

The Welsh were very enthusiastic about their attendance last week in the MS, but there was a number of white shirts in evidence. Who knows?

I have always remarked on the sobriety of travelling Irish fans though.

nottins_jones wrote:nottins stalker? Is that the best you could come out with...
Fair play though I was correct . About time some of you lot moved on from your loss.

Perhaps I'm a little long in the tooth for too much name calling young man...

Your age would tell me that you wouldnt remember the days when Wales were handing regular hammerings by most international sides during the 1990's. I'm guessing you're another quiff haired, shave your body hair, "Bandwagon Taff".

I have a great amount of respect for the Welsh sides of the 70's but your modern day equivalent certainly have nothing to shout about.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:No Eire I like ROG and Sexton was interesting and a good weapon to have. Would never start them like that though

Its a defo no go for starting the two but if worst came to worst and it was really needed then i would team them up again.
I would'nt do it against England on the weekend though as its too risky that there will be an injury.

Portnoy wrote:

HURLEY_BURLEY wrote:Many English fans making the trip for Saturday? Sold-out Aviva stadium. Should be a good day out.

Ye usually travel well to Dublin - the fans that is, not the players obviously.
(Then all go home worse for wear!

The cucumber frame is pretty small for an international stadium.

So it depends on the seats available for travelling fans.

The Welsh were very enthusiastic last week in the MS, but there was a number of white shirts in evidence. Who knows?

I have always remarked on the sobriety of travelling Irish fans though.

Ah sure the Welsh love an excuse to don a pink cowboy hat and sing a few songs. Bless.

It is an Irish rule not to be sober overseas or in public where possible. It is a directive from the Irish tourist board which every citizen must obey.

Am i the only one who's unsure why this is the "game that dare not speak its name"?

No

Reminds me of That Prince fella the singer in the 80's actually

Mickado wrote:Am i the only one who's unsure why this is the "game that dare not speak its name"?

x2

It was a catchy titel, you have to admit that

RubyGuby wrote:No

Reminds me of That Prince fella the singer in the 80's actually

You mean the game formerly known as Ireland v England Ireland v England 27 August?

I dunno, maybe the OP is particularly nervous about this match or something.

I suspect he is implying it should be a belter with more at stake than other warm up games. But its Portnoy - so God only knows.
If only the man himself would put us out of our misery.

Mickado wrote:Am i the only one who's unsure why this is the "game that dare not speak its name"?

Because it was penned on 12 August Mick. I called it that anticipating that both sides would need a win somehow.

Plus a tad of revenge that the England party that may need to extract and the need for Ireland not to lose against the only side they've got a bit of a hex on. Oh and yes all of the HNs vomit on the digestion of any sort of loss against England.

cabbagesandbrussels wrote:

nottins_jones wrote:nottins stalker? Is that the best you could come out with...
Fair play though I was correct . About time some of you lot moved on from your loss.

Perhaps I'm a little long in the tooth for too much name calling young man...

Your age would tell me that you wouldnt remember the days when Wales were handing regular hammerings by most international sides during the 1990's. I'm guessing you're another quiff haired, shave your body hair, "Bandwagon Taff".

I have a great amount of respect for the Welsh sides of the 70's but your modern day equivalent certainly have nothing to shout about.

I remember some games from the 90's. England getting thrashed 76 nil by Australia probably ranks high up there with my favourites. No, definitely not a bandwagon taff so not entirely sure why you're guessing this and that.

Not much to shout about with the current Wales team; would certainly be more to shout about than the current England failed Grand Slam team though. Btw, did i mention how nice it is to see your team not play so well, have limited posession, score the only try of the game and still win? Kind of puts you in good spirit for the RWC. England on the other hand, are about to go and recieve their yearly loss to Ireland. Sets you guys up nicely for your pool...

nottins_jones wrote:

cabbagesandbrussels wrote:

nottins_jones wrote:nottins stalker? Is that the best you could come out with...
Fair play though I was correct . About time some of you lot moved on from your loss.

Perhaps I'm a little long in the tooth for too much name calling young man...

Your age would tell me that you wouldnt remember the days when Wales were handing regular hammerings by most international sides during the 1990's. I'm guessing you're another quiff haired, shave your body hair, "Bandwagon Taff".

I have a great amount of respect for the Welsh sides of the 70's but your modern day equivalent certainly have nothing to shout about.

I remember some games from the 90's. England getting thrashed 76 nil by Australia probably ranks high up there with my favourites. No, definitely not a bandwagon taff so not entirely sure why you're guessing this and that.

Not much to shout about with the current Wales team; would certainly be more to shout about than the current England failed Grand Slam team though. Btw, did i mention how nice it is to see your team not play so well, have limited posession, score the only try of the game and still win? Kind of puts you in good spirit for the RWC. England on the other hand, are about to go and recieve their yearly loss to Ireland. Sets you guys up nicely for your pool...

Well we can all compare notes after the WC I suppose.

yappysnap wrote:

nottins_jones wrote:

cabbagesandbrussels wrote:

nottins_jones wrote:nottins stalker? Is that the best you could come out with...
Fair play though I was correct . About time some of you lot moved on from your loss.

Perhaps I'm a little long in the tooth for too much name calling young man...

Your age would tell me that you wouldnt remember the days when Wales were handing regular hammerings by most international sides during the 1990's. I'm guessing you're another quiff haired, shave your body hair, "Bandwagon Taff".

I have a great amount of respect for the Welsh sides of the 70's but your modern day equivalent certainly have nothing to shout about.

I remember some games from the 90's. England getting thrashed 76 nil by Australia probably ranks high up there with my favourites. No, definitely not a bandwagon taff so not entirely sure why you're guessing this and that.

Not much to shout about with the current Wales team; would certainly be more to shout about than the current England failed Grand Slam team though. Btw, did i mention how nice it is to see your team not play so well, have limited posession, score the only try of the game and still win? Kind of puts you in good spirit for the RWC. England on the other hand, are about to go and recieve their yearly loss to Ireland. Sets you guys up nicely for your pool...

Well we can all compare notes after the WC I suppose.

Ah the tour of death from which it was pretty much universally predicted that JW would never recover. Ten years on however who's saying that?

Who would have thought Jonny would drop goal England to world cup glory eh Portnoy?!

For England it looks ever more likely that MJ will not be swayed by anything or anybody when it comes to selection. No matter how us posters can advise I believe he will select the following against Argentina:

Sheridan, Hartley, Cole, Palmer, Lawes, Croft, Easter, Moody, Youngs, Flood, Hape, Tindall, Ashton, Cueto and Foden. Subs; Stevens, Thompson, Shaw, Haskell, Wigglesworth, Wilkinson, Armitage

For this Ireland game the Telegrapgh has indicated that he will experiment with Tuilagi and Tindall in the midfield. A bit late in the day for experiments and I can't really see this working out. Tinds is not a 12 as his hands and distribution are poor therefore Manu will have to go there. Against Ireland's quality midfield it won't work. The problem is Tindall as he has lost whatever pace he once had. Against France 2 years ago in Paris he was outstanding in defeat, but that was 2 years ago. If Manu makes a half break Tindall will ensure it goes no where. It will rely on the back 3 to be on Manu's shoulder instead.
Sheridan needs game time and if fit will play albeit maybe from the bench and Simpson must get a run out. Otherwise I would like to see some players get an opportunity who are close to selection for the 1st XV but not there yet like Shaw, Stevens, Wilkinson, Armitage to see if any of them can force their way in. Then you have to balance the requirement to give your starting players match practice to ensure they are battle hardened. Very difficult selection and I will be keen to see the line up.

nottins_jones wrote: England on the other hand, are about to go and recieve their yearly loss to Ireland.

Nice of you to forget them having already spanked England this year...England 5 nations Grandslam Champions

Moody out of the Ireland game. Back row of Croft, Haskell and Easter? Or Croft, Wood and Easter?

Or Croft, Wood and Easter for me Thunor.

Croft Wood Haskell I'd go with.

I like Easter but i'd love to give the youth a chance and let them go out there and compete.

James Haskell has been passed fit
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/14647844.stm