606v2 Middleweight rankings

First topic message reminder :

Thought i'd be kind to certain posters and muddy the waters even further by starting the middleweight rankings now which again includes the light middleweights

1. Monzon
2. Greb
3. Hagler
4. Robinson
5. Hopkins
6. Walker
7. Ketchel
8. Fitzsimmons
9. Burley
10. Lamotta
11. Cerdan
12. Zale
13. Tiger
14. Fullmer
15. Steele

One of the weaker divisions of the original 8 divisions in my opinion

Not a problem mate, is the thread still in here or do i need to post on the archive thread?

No Hopkins anywhere GG?

Would it be possible to message me your top ten mate, would rather not clog the board up any more.

Will do Ghosty, forgot all about Hopkins, looks like McCoy will have to go.

Interesting to see Hopkins so high on many lists, but RRJ almost entirely absent, despite having beaten Hopkins, and Toney with ease. Always thought thatr RRJ would have been too much for Hagler- Leonard showed that good movement and fast combinations were the way to beat Marvin and RRJ had all that plus power. Also very surprised to see LaMotta feature on so many lists,always thought he was a crude slugger with a very short title reign, and numerous losses to Robinson. Would be interset to here the views of some of those who had him on their lists.

That's all he has at the weight though a singular win over Hopkins and not much else.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:That's all he has at the weight though a singular win over Hopkins and not much else.

Fair point Ghosty, I had forgotten that he only made a few defences before moving up, but with super middle being a relatively new div. I tend to clump it in with middle weight when making these sort of cross generational comparisons, and as these lists have shown, ranknig the multi weight champs becomes very difficult esp.when many of them stick around at one weight long enough to make any sort of reign.

Super Middleweight is the junior division of Light Heavyweight so I see it to be completely seperate to that of Middleweight, that's why I have very little time for the modern day multi weight champions.

1. Greb
2. Monzon
3. Ketchel
4. Hagler
5. Robinson
6. Steele
7. Hopkins
8. Walker
9. Flowers
10. Fitzsimmons
11. Tiger
12. Burley
13. Cerdan
14. Fullmer
15. Zale

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Super Middleweight is the junior division of Light Heavyweight so I see it to be completely seperate to that of Middleweight, that's why I have very little time for the modern day multi weight champions.

Interesting, I always think of it as the senior of middle weight, rather than the junior of light heavy as almost all of its champions of worth were middles that moved up- I can think of only two light heavys that moved down (Lalonde and Johnson) hence i tend to lump middle and super middle together. agree with you regarding multi weight champs- prefer to see someone dominate a division rather than just pick up a belt and move on.

I think its opposition that counts. Nowadays there are so many weight classes and belts that dominating a singular division means you can still be missing out on big fights. Lower down the weights its almost essential to weight hop now as some divisions just become too thin. Somebody like Calzaghe dominated a weak super middleweight division for a dcade when he would have been better served tempting up some of the better middleweights or moving to light heavyweight himself.

In past eras when the title meant alot more and there were fewer divisions, being dominant in a single division was far more impressive. Nowadays with titles meaning little and divisions being numerous and diluted I think weight hopping is neccessary and quality of opposition is the primary measure.

Colonial Lion wrote:I think its opposition that counts. Nowadays there are so many weight classes and belts that dominating a singular division means you can still be missing out on big fights. Lower down the weights its almost essential to weight hop now as some divisions just become too thin. Somebody like Calzaghe dominated a weak super middleweight division for a dcade when he would have been better served tempting up some of the better middleweights or moving to light heavyweight himself.

In past eras when the title meant alot more and there were fewer divisions, being dominant in a single division was far more impressive. Nowadays with titles meaning little and divisions being numerous and diluted I think weight hopping is neccessary and quality of opposition is the primary measure.

Valid point, and I don't disagree with you, but if Calazaghe had unified the titles early on , or fought the likes of RRJ or Bhop at super middle , then there would be no need to move weights, He only really dominated the division toward the end of his reign, but you are right quality of opponent is the primary issue, but still fitting modern weight jumping fighters into these all time lists is difficult.

Not sure that Jones v Calzaghever really have happened at super middleweight. I think Jones was a light heavy when Calzaghe became an established champion.

He could have potentiall faced Hopkins or even Pavlik or Taylor at super middleweight but the principal would be the same in the sense that it would be his opponent moving up weight rather than him. Likewise with De la Hoya or Trinidad moving up to face Hopkins.

I think nowadays weight hopping is a necessity in most cases as the numerous divisions mean that the top level quality is spread thinly and divisions are rarely packed with talent. The few times they are its generally at the expense of the the junior division abov or below which is left pretty threadbare then.

horizontalhero wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Super Middleweight is the junior division of Light Heavyweight so I see it to be completely seperate to that of Middleweight, that's why I have very little time for the modern day multi weight champions.

Interesting, I always think of it as the senior of middle weight, rather than the junior of light heavy as almost all of its champions of worth were middles that moved up- I can think of only two light heavys that moved down (Lalonde and Johnson) hence i tend to lump middle and super middle together. agree with you regarding multi weight champs- prefer to see someone dominate a division rather than just pick up a belt and move on.

I say that because super middleweight is within the light heavyweight limit but is not within the middleweight limit so is strictly speaking nothing to do with the divisions below it.

1. Roy Jones - was absolutely awesome at his best
2. Marvin Hagler - complete beast a proper badass
3. Sugar Ray Leonard - had amazing skills
4. Tommy Hearns - got destroyed by Hagler but whupped Duran big time
5. Joe Calzaghe - was unbeaten, nuff said
6. Hopkins - lost to Calzaghe but still a legend
7. Oscar de la Hoya - top fighter
8. Sugar Ray robinson - quality old school boxer, respect
9. Chris Eubank - One of Britains finest
10. Nigel Benn - preffered him to Eubank but he lost to him. He deserved to win da rematch though!

They're your all time top 15 middleweights?

Imperial Ghosty wrote:They're your all time top 15 middleweights?

I know there is only ten

It's the language that was used that got me Jeff, why is it so difficult to speak English nowadays?

Greb
Monzon
Hagler
Robinson
Hopkins
Fitzsimmons
Ketchel
Burley
Walker
Cerdan
La Motta
Tiger
Zale
Steele
Fulmer