RAW Discussion: CM Punk quietly taken out of title picture?

RAW was good until John Cena showed up! It looks like they are now building a del Rio v Cena match, leaving Punk to feud with Diesel/Hunter.

Perhaps Punk was given the title because Cena did not want to lose to del Rio. Your thoughts?

Punks in the hottest feud in the WWE at present

the-gaffer wrote:Punks in the hottest feud in the WWE at present

agreed. Del Rio cashing in MITB makes things more complicated but nevertheless he is not established enough to hold a feud with Cena on his own - look what happened to Cena's match with the Miz at Mania: a huge disappointment (I respect WWE's ambition to try and make a new star in the Miz at Mania, it was a very bold and risky move but nevertheless it back fired due to Miz not fully being main event calibre). With Punk though there was no fear of that - he is a former ROH world champ and they don't give their world title to any tom, dick or harry, he is a former X3 WHC in his own right and has proven himself to be a great worker and excellent promo cutter. Punk just screams world champion and main event from his experience and talent. I think Del Rio will need supporting in this new feud with Cena and so I think Punk will be added to the mix and besides Punk's done nothing to warrent him stepping away from the WWE title picture - he's still the hottest thing in wrestling currently and the fans are behind him still. His feud with Cena still has legs to run with.

The Miz didn't work for WrestleMania because he was totally undermined prior to the event, winning weakly or against 60 year old commentators and The Rock was brought in, further undermining him.

They could have built Miz up as an equal but they chose not to.

After the Promo Rock cut on his return, Cena should never have then went on to win the Chamber match, however the WWE no doubt thought that throwing Miz in with Cena and Rock would give the biggest of his life

I don't understand why people think Punk not being involved in the title picture means he is being "demoted" or pushed back down the card or something like that, at the moment Punk is involved in the biggest storyline and it will be Cena/Del Rio that will take the back seat.

The only complaint people can have about that really is that the 'title should be no.1 priority' which I don't believe anyway, I think when you have a feud as hot as Punk's, it's good to have the title take a back seat as it allows Del Rio to be champion with less of a huge pressure on his shoulders and it can be quite refreshing seeing people feud over something other than a title.

I think the Punk fued will certainly be the biggest storyline in the near future with or without the title being involved.
I do really think Stephanie is involved in sending the text, which is ok, as the more she is on tv the better for me! Would have preferred it to have been HHH though, or Vince. Lauranitis may also be an option though, as if it isn't him then why is he still involved?
Del Rio I think is ok but no where near ready for being champion. Coming out to no reaction at all is terrible. People don't care about him enough, he may be good in the ring but he needs to freshen up his character/gimmick. And Cena coming after him for the title? Yawn. By the time Cena finishes his career he will be a 37 time champion.
But thats the only bad thing about WWE at the moment IMO. The standard of storylines and matches and PPVs in general is most definitely improving.

i was thinking Laurinitis as well MIG, it was something he said to Nash during their little talk, but i cant remember what, just made me think he defo sent the text.

invincibleILeak (CL-6WF) wrote:I don't understand why people think Punk not being involved in the title picture means he is being "demoted" or pushed back down the card or something like that, at the moment Punk is involved in the biggest storyline and it will be Cena/Del Rio that will take the back seat.

The only complaint people can have about that really is that the 'title should be no.1 priority' which I don't believe anyway, I think when you have a feud as hot as Punk's, it's good to have the title take a back seat as it allows Del Rio to be champion with less of a huge pressure on his shoulders and it can be quite refreshing seeing people feud over something other than a title.

Exactly. If Cena was involved in the storyline with Nash and HHH and Del Rio with Punk, would you be happy? I wouldn't because then Punk really would be taking the back seat. Also did you see the reception he got when he came out against Nash! he is already a star with the audience and the WWE would be stupid to drop him so shortly after elevating him to the top.

Maybe they will bring back GTV to see who sent the text...

I think whoever sent it wont be revealed as Triple H, whether its Johnny Ace or Stephanie and it will make HHH come across as a fair boss, only when he'll finally earn Punk's trust will Hunter screw him over and reveal he was in on it all along, which leads to Punk/HHH which I'd save to WrestleMania

I disagree that Punk is being demoted. I think he is in the top storyline.

However, from a logical standpoint I don't understand why Cena is apparently the number one contender?! Didn't Del Rio beat Punk for the title?

Just because Punk wasn't offended by the way Del Rio won the title and Cena was, it shouldn't make Cena the number one contender. Otherwise, what would happen if Michael McGillicutty even more offended by it?! What about if Yoshi Tatsu was absolutely seething at Del Rio? Would they automatically leapfrog both Punk and Cena?

I don't think anyone has said Cena is the number one contender he just came out and stated he was going to come after Del Rio and the title.

MIG wrote:I don't think anyone has said Cena is the number one contender he just came out and stated he was going to come after Del Rio and the title.

Plus, unlike pre-Summerslam when they didn't seem to have enough episodes to get in everything they wanted to get in they have five weeks before Night of Champions, which gives plenty of time for these plots to develop further at a normal pace instead of being rushed to get everything in.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Punk get a Raw WWE title rematch with him being screwed in some way. Just enough for his star not to be affected but not too much for him to then be able to demand another rematch, stay involved in the title picture or weaken ADR's push.

I still can't believe that they gave away the first ever Punk vs Del Rio match last week on Raw in a four-minute unannounced match.

It makes me think they aren't going to be using that as a PPV main event any time soon, so you might be right, they might just have a rematch on Raw to get it out of the way.

Punk might have a match with Del Rio but I doubt he'll be in anything resembling a feud with him until near the turn of the year

Del Rio just doesnt cut the mustard for me. As soon as they've finished the tour of Mexico i think they'll take the strap off him. He wont draw as champion, he's still very green, and i just cant see him having any longetivity at main event level. The Miz was better as champion for me, and thats coming from someone who doesnt rate The Miz! Im not sure even the great Shawn Michaels could get much out of a very ordinary Del Rio.

I don't think that ADR is ordinary. He is a good worker with a gimmick that gets a reaction and good promo skills for someone who is not a native English speaker.

That said I would like to see him have more of a "retinue" someone with his gimmick would have the ability to hire staff, minders and managers who would help to make his gimmick more interesting and also take the pressure off him alone.

They could run it as Cena being one man alone who has to fight against ADR and his teams of followers. In the light of the current issues in America and the rise of the grass roots Tea Party movement that looks to stand up to authority figures it would be an interesting spin on this in the same way as the Punk v Estbalishment feud is.

I think his promo skills are good though a manager would work well for him as well. He could even go for the gimmick of only talking in Spanish and having a translator if they wanted.

Given that the majority of Americans speak Spanish now it would be a good way of getting heat without making any promos he gives completely pointless. Could play the whole "I am better than you and your language" line.

Sorry Josh but only approximately 12% of Americans speak the Spanish language, so it isnt the majority.

I just find him dull, only my opinion i know, but i dont think he garners the relevant heat required for a World Champion level heel. I find his promos awkward and just think he's been fastracked too soon, he should have held a mid card title first.

It would not suprise me in the slightest if he ended up a 1 time World Champ.

Mr H wrote:Sorry Josh but only approximately 12% of Americans speak the Spanish language, so it isnt the majority.

I just find him dull, only my opinion i know, but i dont think he garners the relevant heat required for a World Champion level heel. I find his promos awkward and just think he's been fastracked too soon, he should have held a mid card title first.

It would not suprise me in the slightest if he ended up a 1 time World Champ.

Completely agree mate.

Approximately 12% of Americans are native Spanish speakers but over half do speak Spanish to varying degrees.

While I too agree that he should have had a run with a mid card title (during his feud with Mysterio for example) I do think that they will give him every chance to be a success because of his potential for them in Mexico and the growing numbers of Hispanics in American society.

Whether it is true or not he is apparently good at backstage politicking so I wouldn't expect to see him get buried and given that Cena and Punk are both face now it does mean that the stage is free for Miz and ADR to be the main heels on Raw for the moment.

What he should have done is be the I.c champ for a lengthly time.

What he should do now is unveil a new belt on raw.

Does anyone think him vs cena won't get him over as a heel champ? Same old routine for me.

The problem is the main heel on Raw will soon be HHH. He is scheduled for a programme with Punk resulting in a match at Survivor Series so an 'upcoming heel' like Del Rio or Miz will have to play second fiddle to the Punk/HHH fued.

Cena has lost 2 PPVs in a row, if he fueds with Del Rio, i cant see him losing anymore than 4 in a row.

The I.C. title doesn't really mean anything these days, and for the most part I can't think of anybody it has actually helped in the past 5 years.

Mr H wrote:Sorry Josh but only approximately 12% of Americans speak the Spanish language, so it isnt the majority.

I just find him dull, only my opinion i know, but i dont think he garners the relevant heat required for a World Champion level heel. I find his promos awkward and just think he's been fastracked too soon, he should have held a mid card title first.

It would not suprise me in the slightest if he ended up a 1 time World Champ.

He's dull with a capital D,U,L and L. I just don't get the love for him. That whole "It's my destiny" thing got old very quickly. Remembering that he was probably originally meant to defeat Edge but for the timing of his retirement, he still has so much to do to generate a reaction from the crowd. It just feels like the fans are going through the motions whenever he talks.

Also Josh I have to disagree with the Cena vs. faction idea. They've done that. Do we really want a repeat of Cena ripping Nexus apart? I wouldn't want to watch that.

HHH is likely to be the No. 1 heel though there is still definite scope for an ADR/Miz to be the No. 1 active heel. It is like the late 90's with Vince and HHH, Vince was the biggest heel but it certainly didn't stop HHH from getting over as a competitor.

I can see Cena taking a few defeats to ADR - I think that the Punk feud was a bit of a watershed moment because as face v face Punk clearly won that feud and there was no comeback victory for Cena either.

Is it the start of Cena putting more guys over? I am not sure but he has done his best to with Punk and Miz in the last six months and I can see him doing so with ADR who will be the other top guy on the brand for the next few years in my opinion.

The faction could come in after the feud with Cena, or could be an entourage of mainly non-active advisors etc. I do agree that they need to work on their delivery of him as there is nothing particularly special about the gimmick at the moment, though I think he has the ability.

Cena will regain the title at some point though because it will definately be on the line when he faces The Rock at Mania.

Mr H wrote:Cena will regain the title at some point though because it will definately be on the line when he faces The Rock at Mania.

Can see that being around the Rumble time actually, I think that the WWE realise that the build up for that can't be too soon or it will go a bit flat.

Personally I would prefer to see Rocky go in as champ so that when Cena goes over him it will be passing the torch, passing the title kind of thing, though I am not sure how that would work. If he was in the Elimination Chamber or Rumble it would seem so obvious that he was going to win.

What torch?

Cena already has the torch. Rock doesn't have the torch to pass on.

Electric Demon wrote:What torch?

Cena already has the torch. Rock doesn't have the torch to pass on.

But it would benefit Cena to be endorsed by Rock, who was a bigger wrestling star and is a bigger mainstream star than him.

Davieswasacrippledtart wrote:

Electric Demon wrote:What torch?

Cena already has the torch. Rock doesn't have the torch to pass on.

But it would benefit Cena to be endorsed by Rock, who was a bigger wrestling star and is a bigger mainstream star than him.

It is a torch passing like Hogan to Rock - was Rocky an up and comer who needed it? Heck no, but it was part of legitimising the current generation's star against the star of the previous generation. Same thing here.

Ah... maybe

Didn't Stone Cold pass the torch to Cena when he was inducted in the hall of fame. I know it wasn't in a match or anything but it certainly looked that way to me.

MIG wrote:Didn't Stone Cold pass the torch to Cena when he was inducted in the hall of fame. I know it wasn't in a match or anything but it certainly looked that way to me.

Maybe, but there is nothing like a match to do it and given that the Rock v Hogan staredown was one of the most iconic images of the industry I think that the WWE want to have some form of repeat of that.

JoshSansom wrote:

MIG wrote:Didn't Stone Cold pass the torch to Cena when he was inducted in the hall of fame. I know it wasn't in a match or anything but it certainly looked that way to me.

Maybe, but there is nothing like a match to do it and given that the Rock v Hogan staredown was one of the most iconic images of the industry I think that the WWE want to have some form of repeat of that.

It wont come close to Rock/Hogan. When they stared down at the beginning of the year it fell a bit flat. Now if they done a Rock/HBK staredown, THAT would be special.

In many ways you could say Cena is a poor mans version of the rock. I hope the title isn't in the line. Rock which ever way will be passing the torch to cena. I don't even think cena needs it,he's gone as far as he can go for me.

Much prefer rocky to pass it onto a miz or somebody if that ilk.

Even if Rock did ''pass the torch'' still wouldnt change the reactions Cena gets

I'd rather see Rock screw Punk for the title and ensure Cena is the Champ heading into Mania, it would give Cena a big win back over Punk but would keep Punk strong and also give Rocl ammunition that Cena ir only Champ because he allows it

the-gaffer wrote:I'd rather see Rock screw Punk for the title and ensure Cena is the Champ heading into Mania, it would give Cena a big win back over Punk but would keep Punk strong and also give Rocl ammunition that Cena ir only Champ because he allows it

I think that makes the most sense, the only thing I can't work out would be how to explain why he cost Cena the title at Wrestlemania 27? It could even lead to a Punk/Rock match later down the line if the rumors are to believed that The Rock is staying around longer than Wrestlemania.