South Africa v NZ

First topic message reminder :

Well, SA 6-0 up but don't want to tackle....NZ just have to be paitent as SA are being cut to shreds

Hi ,Biltong why is it so surprising it has always been that way,2007 [2 AB wins],2008[2AB ,1bok win]2009[3bok wins]2010[3AB wins]2011 [one each]
BUT 2007,and 2011 ,2 AB wins and 1 Bok wins were versus shadow sides.
2008,2009 3 of those Bok wins were versus seriously injury weakened sides.2010 3 All Black wins were against seriously injury weakened Bok sides.
All things being equal Boks in SA,All Blacks in NZ HOME WIN that is has it has been since 1921 [mostly].
The difference in your results versus the All Blacks in the PRO era is almost all down to your inability to win AWAY,3 times since 1996 plus one neutral
two versus injury weakened sides.
In RWCS your style of play is better suited to knockout Rugby,and will mean you will go further than the ABs.
Think on this France win group A,SA group B.likely France v SA semi,if BOTH sides play to there potential that would be a cracker.
NZ on the other side of the draw in NZ v England or OZ got to fancy Nz`s chances of reaching Finals.

IF TED had seroiusly wanted a win.the addition of one player Read as Captain and number 8.Ben Franks starting at prop,Afoa of the bench for the last 20minutes.
Weepu starting as 10 and goal kicker,Slade coming in off the bench,
Poor decision making?you could have said that last week about the Boks.
A week is a long time in Rugby Morne Steyn was rubbished last week,this week he`s Mister Wonderful.He`s the same player he always was good in Saturdays scenario.
When you want him to set up running attacks then he is not so clever,but you have better players for that if you play them.
Want to bet O`Connor gets off with a rollicking and a fine?Saturday has a little to do with RWC as a fortnight ago did cannon fodder thrown in to save
players for RWC.
Saturday YOU HAD to front up if you`d lost to a scratch AB side theMedia would have crucified you.
Instead you`ve already won another RWC according to them.
Incidentally i`m not being wise after the event ,it went EXACTLY as I predicted.Yes you will get better ,back where you always were ONE of the best TWo sides in the World.

Yeah, i think the media must often be taken with a pinch of salt.

I still think we have a chance, but New Zealand are favourites

emack2

I think people who called for Morne to be axed don't know much about SA rugby. None of the serious rugby journalists were calling for anything bar him to start.

Its just like all the UK based 606'ers who seriously tried to call for Schalk Brits to start for the boks ahead of Du Plessis & Smit... those who know SA rugby know in SA he doesn't get the space, faces bigger packs and is too lightweight. Any top player who goes down to the lower leagues will look better then they are.

In fact most of the credible sources were slating PDV for dumping the man who has guided SA to notable victories over the last 2 years for a man who has played little SH rugby in the same period, can't kick and running game is over rated. You can't make such drastic changes to your team 2 games before a RWC.... certainly not to the man who runs your team on the field.

He has his flaws.... like JW he is a kicking 10..... but what a kick he has. Only JW is better at pressure kicking.... even then I'm not so sure, come rain or shine, a knockabout in a park or a away SF RWC match he is near certain to land close 90% of field goals from whereever he takes them on the park.

There's some (selected) stats from the game here. There's some vindication for all the swearing I did at Ali Williams and Adam Thomson while watching the match

Yep, in fairness I thought Ali Williams must surely have played his last game for the ABs.

Once again his handling was poor, his carrying was ineffective and his link work was sloppy.

Henry must surely be hanging on to him on the basis of his experience and his positive effect on team moral.

Under Henry the All Blacks have lost 6 games inSouth Africa,true BUT they
have WON 4 games there too.How many sides go to SA and win regularly very few.[thanks for that[Kiwi wired devil]
SA wins in NZ since 1996 you can count on one hand,
Incidentally i`ve always rated Morne Steyn,Test Rugby rule number one.
FIRST name on the team sheet the BEST Goal kicker,at the rate he kicks goals by the end of the RWC he could own the World points record.

Morning bilton kiwi and others, here's to a good week and onto next weekend!

As to the match, I found the 1st half surreal. to my mind it was all ABs and yet they went in losing! Yes the guy can kick, think we all know that, but as a bok supporter I would be concerned the times the lines got broken. Against quicker sides, like England with Ashton, the French or even the Wallabies they would have been tries against.

What I really noticed and was a bit amazed at is, well as already been said in the press and by supported, that was a 'B' side th ekiwis sent out.

The thing was yes not the current full AB side, but players with heapsa test experiences, and wasn't that long ago when a few of them were the 'A' side. But noticed how badly they played, they played as a 'B' side. Not just the ABs, the boks, and us, when we have sent a side out the press calls the 'B' side, they end up playing like a 'B' side. Though the players in the sides usually are quite good individually. If they were in the 'A' side I bet they would have played better, and as a team too. I wonder does labelling a side the 'B' side automacticlly brings the standard down?

But the boks deserved the win, and they seemed to have played very well to a set game plan.

I think the try scoring opportunities were lost because of lack of match fitness and the combinations not quite being there, and also because the Springbok scambling defence was just sublime.

The Habana tackle on Cowan early on was a fine piece of work. Having said that, Cowan's option taking was poor. He had support on the outside, and should have used it.

The ABs lacked composure when they got behind the SA line.

The experiment with the interchangeable loosies clearly didn't work, with far too many penalties conceded, although I have to say the AB's seemed to be pinged for going off their feet, whilst the Springboks seemed to be using the old rouse, of entering and taking their weight on players already in the ruck. I've seen that penalised many times this year...

I'd say SA would have gained a lot of confidence from their pack, especially at the breakdown and their immense physicality. NZ did match this however.

Backline wise it's another story. Yes the NZ finishing, and options in the tackle, were very poor but it seemed as though they could break the SA line at will. This will worry them immensely as NZ didn't exactly have a dominant pack giving them good pill on a platter. SBW seemed more interested in shovelling the ball on and didn't run at the line hardly at all (this is really annoying from a NZ point of view as he could get real go forward). Dagg was brilliant and took great options too, but defensively JDV and Fourie are awesome and I thought they would do better with the lack of go forward. However the SA scrambling defence was outstanding. Very smart running lines cutting off the NZ support runners from the person breaking.

I don't like Afoa and he didn't do himself any favours. But it looks like he'll go. Woodcock and Owen are specialists and I think Crockett will miss out with Afoa and Ben going as they can play 1 and 3.

Agood question was raised by Justin Marshall during the commentary.Why don't South Africa pass Brian Habanna the Ball?

PDV is hiding him for the world cup?

I think that B team of NZ would have beaten most teams in world rugby. Defintely would have beaten Fiji, Samoa etc so I would rank it around 7 in the world.

Weepu can cover 10 well enough if need be.

fa0019 wrote:emack2

I think people who called for Morne to be axed don't know much about SA rugby. None of the serious rugby journalists were calling for anything bar him to start.

I called for him to be axed. He was part of a team that had a terrible defence at the line and an attack that did not a lot more. Axing Steyn opens the way for more attacking rugby. Sure they won that test with him, but what of many others?

Its not just knowing about SA rugby, its about knowing what wins matches, and Steyn aint won many lately.