Novak, Heart of a Lion

Well, the one out of The Wizard of Oz anyway.

Seriously, I fully realise the guy was hurting and had no chance but there were 3 games to go, he could have easily walked through them to give the proper result but, no, we have to have the result get a big fat asterisk as he has done so many times in the past.

As it happened, if he'd sat there for the changeover he'd be on the massage table now and the match might be off for the day but he quit before the rains fell.

This business of MTOs and quitting is the one thing about this guy that will always be a stain on his record.

lol why walk through them..? The crowd would boo had he not been trying.. i'd have preferred Nole to have lost against Monf or Berd anyway than go for this tournament (which has little relevance to USO surface and scheduling of QF, SF, F back to back.)

Fish should have won this tournament but he didnt look his best in semi's.

Great the guy has a bad shoulder after 60 matches but I know Dr. Bogbrush knows better than everyone who is hurting and isn't hurting. Why am I not surprised, you couldn't wait for this moment to question Djoko's heart. He has been complaining about the shoulder for the last few matches and he couldn't get his serve over a week before the open, he should have retired earlier if it was bothering him.

If this was the first time I wouldn't mention it. Or the second. But it's a habit and it's disrespectful to his opponent.

No question at all he was unable to play at full strength, that's not the issue.

And "walked" is obviously a generalisation for what he could have done. Just play some steady rallies, lose the match hurting and keep the Rtd off the scoresheet.

bogbrush wrote:If this was the first time I wouldn't mention it. Or the second. But it's a habit and it's disrespectful to his opponent.

No question at all he was unable to play at full strength, that's not the issue.

And "walked" is obviously a generalisation for what he could have done. Just play some steady rallies, lose the match hurting and keep the Rtd off the scoresheet.

And risk finishing off his US Open hopes by making his injury worse? Not worth the risk at all.

ye you would like Nole to humiliate himself by playing on wouldn;t you.. this is a nothing tournament on a unnatural surface plus Nole won last week's tournament if you didn't forget lol.

I am just wondering if Rafa and Fed's ouster in the early stages of warm up tournaments was a startegic one as there seems to be lots of retirements lately?

And what if every serve was bothering his shoulder and he was stressing that the problem could be aggravated. Would it have really been respectful if a la Michael Chang he started serving under hand every time? How does he know the exact extent of his injury if he is having severe shoulder pain, has no chance in the match, has fought a set and half and can't go any longer that his call to make. Neither you nor I have any knowledge on how bad his shoulder is hurting him.

nah I don't think Nadal's loss was strategic he had some horrible blisters on his fingers. Federer? well judging by his "handshake fail" it looked like he was peed off.

In my eyes the only one entitled to be cheesed off would be Andy but I'll bet he'll completely understand the situation. A week before the final slam of the season, a set and two breaks down and clearly in pain what other choice is there to make? Play on and risk ruling himself out of a slam event?

Humiliate? By playing on for three cheap games and getting the applause befitting a guy who did the right thing by his opponent without risking damaging himself (or are we saying his arm is so gone he dare not swing it about at all?).

Or humiliate by adding another quit to his tally?

A love set there would have been no shame at all.

Like I say, if this was a player who'd never done this before I'd think again and consider maybe he was in real peril, but this is Nole, who quits repeatedly yet is bright eyed and bushy tailed next time out. As he will be in a week, you watch.

Maiestas

You don't half post some shyte on this forum and spoil it for the genuine tennis fans.

socal - Novak is not Superman (although nitb and a few others seem to think he is!)

Remember he was the king of MTO's a year or so back and its inevitable that he will get injured at some juncture, but I'm sure he will be ok for the USO

bogbrush wrote:Humiliate? By playing on for three cheap games and getting the applause befitting a guy who did the right thing by his opponent without risking damaging himself (or are we saying his arm is so gone he dare not swing it about at all?).

A love set there would have been no shame at all.

Like I say, if this was a player who'd never done this before I'd think again and consider maybe he was in real peril, but this is Nole, who quits repeatedly yet is bright eyed and bushy tailed next time out. As he will be in a week, you watch.

Or humiliate by adding another quit to his tally?

3 nothing games to you but if the man's shoulder is hurting him and each serve is causing pain how does he know he doesn't have anything more serious or the injury is something that he could aggravate? In short as usual you are talking out of your not so clean place. By the way its his first withdrawal in almost 16 months. He fought hard and the shoulder was clearly bothering him, he talked about it after the monfils and berdy match. Is he the only guy to withdraw this week?

sportslover

shut it murray fanboy geek.

stop reading if you don't like it idiot.

1st withdrawal in 16 months?

Wow, that's some kind of incredible record isn't it?

bogbrush wrote:1st withdrawal in 16 months?

Wow, that's some kind of incredible record isn't it?

Berdych withdrew, did you call him quitter, should he have served an entire set with a bum shoulder? A bunch of players withdrew from this tournament, did you call all of them quitters? Last time he withdrew from a tourney is serbia 2010, it was obvious to everyone that he had a shoulder injury since the monfils match he has been talking about it and stretching it out after serves and his serve numbers have collapsed in the last couple of matches as the shoulder was not right.

I'll say again the only one with any right to feel peeved/cheesed off is Andy Murray and I'll bet 100% that Andy fully understands Djokovic predicament so that is the matter closed.

Andy now seventh equal in the all-time list (dating back to 1990) of most successful players at Masters level.

Craig that is why I keep telling people that Murray is underrated even without a slam. 7 master's titles is an impressive number in this era with the players above him. Murray in mind is clearly at this point the best player to never win a slam, lets hope he loses that moniker real soon. (not at Novak's expense though )

I want to post on this crap that people think Djokovic is a past 'MTO' king. I can sympathise because like me he suffered with a deformed septum and anyone that has had it knows that it is a crippler when playing sport. I had my nose cartilage reduced to 25% because of how bad it was and I know that Djokovic has had his nose cartilage cauterised. The diagnosis of this can take upto 12-18 months based on the basic allergy tests carried out and also the nose steroid sprays he would've had to avoid. The fact he is still playing professional sport and played through it too is high praise. Not every human can be so fortunate to have a clean bill of health.

Bravo, by Legend, the voice of reason again. It was clear the guy was not right physically and in a lot of pain. He must have been worried about the open coming around the corner.

I hardly mentioned murray at all LK in this thread, it's the idiot sportslover keeps writing about me

What's that socal, his nose cartilage was messing his shoulder up?

The thing is most players in there careers have problems. Nadal with his knees. Djokovic with his breathing. Federer had Glandular Fever and was able to recover. Look at Ancic who retired because he never fully recovered from his bout of Glandular fever. Hewitt with his hip. Murray has had ankle problems. Del Potro with his wrist. Not all players ever fully recover from injuries and can be plagued by them during a career.

If Djokovic had continued and damaged his Rota Cuff, this place would be sieged by posters calling him an idiot for not pulling out and not throwing caution to the wind.

It may take the gloss off the victory, but far more important at all times is the health of players.

I didn't get to see this match, so just home to read the news. I was hoping it would be this result (without Djokovic being injured) just because I thought it would be good for Murray's pschye to win, and good for Novak's to lose so that he wasn't carrying 'the streak' into the Open, and thereby avoiding a bit of the hype.

Agree that neither is looking convincing - but then who has this week, apart from Mardy, and Berdych. Berdych has a big game when he is on, but he just can't sustain the concentration/desire/belief. Although Fed was dismal, I still think Berdych played a fine match - 2 years ago at W he did the same to beat Fed and Novak back to back, but then crumbled against Nadal - he might well trouble a big name, but unlikely to do more.

The door is wide open, but it is difficult to hazard a guess about who will take the challenge.

legendkillar wrote:The thing is most players in there careers have problems. Nadal with his knees. Djokovic with his breathing. Federer had Glandular Fever and was able to recover. Look at Ancic who retired because he never fully recovered from his bout of Glandular fever. Hewitt with his hip. Murray has had ankle problems. Del Potro with his wrist. Not all players ever fully recover from injuries and can be plagued by them during a career.

If Djokovic had continued and damaged his Rota Cuff, this place would be sieged by posters calling him an idiot for not pulling out and not throwing caution to the wind.

It may take the gloss off the victory, but far more important at all times is the health of players.

Yeah, that was likely

I would have an entirely different view were it not for the history of doing this. The boy has cried wolf. Sue me if I don't take them seriously any more.

PS Murrays worst was his wrist.

I have to admit that when he retired at 3-0 I thought he should see out the match to give a legitimate result. He needed only serve 4 more half-hearted points to see the match out. Berdych retired at end of the 1st set.
Nole seemed to be ralleying good enough with the shoulder still to not be a major injury. I actually thought he looked more tired than injured, dont think he copes with heat at all well.

His first serve velocity was way down lydian, maybe the pain was serious enough where it puts some doubt in his mind as to whether he injured himself more seriously. Berdych did the same exact thing, Novak has been fiddling with that shoulder since the monfils match.

Nothin to do with the heat Lydian. It's playing 3 matches in 3 days, no worries he will be on optimum form forthe slam

I dont doubt he had a shoulder injury, I do think he probably could have finished though, coasting through 3 games wouldnt have harmed him.
Maybe JM, agree he just looked tired though, I think he's starting to run on empty...

lydian wrote:I think he's starting to run on empty...

I do too!

I actually like the fact that Novak is very careful and takes care of his body. When he doesn't feel right he shuts it down. He has managed his body well enough to average 80 plus matches a year for the last few years and to avoid major injuries that have plagued Nadal and to a lesser extent murray. I know fans want to see the macho thing and have players tough it out and fight through the pain. That simply would not have been a smart play a week before the USO. This isn't a team sport where if you get hurt you can sit on the bench in fancy suits and collect your salary anyway. In an individual sport if your body breaks down you can't compete and you don't earn any prize money. Players have to be given some discretion in how they manage their health and pace themselves through a whole season.

socal1976 wrote:Players have to be given some discretion in how they manage their health and pace themselves through a whole season.

It is quite a dilemna, because in the modern game with big bucks to play for, and a small time in which you can maximise your earning potential, taking care of your body and pacing yourself accordingly is essential.

The flip side to this argument is that big bucks are paid in prize money all the way down the line in the premier event. The Masters events are able to reward the players handsomely because the top competitors are obliged to compete and so spectators are guaranteed seeing the best play. If too much 'discretion' is allowed, the premier events, outside the slams, may find themselves hosting a disappointing field which in turn means that the big bucks begin to fall away. This situation would affect the other guys outside the top 5 far more than those in it, and would affect the depth of the tour in the long run with players outside the top twenty beginning to find it too expensive to compete without at least shedding the coach!

Yes we all agree its important to look after your body but he only had to coast through 3 more games. Yes if it was the end of the first set, or nearer the start of the match and you cant carry on then retire if its hurting. But Murray had played a good match and the withdrawal takes the gloss off the victory. I dont think he would have been "fighting through pain" to coast those last 3 games. Personally I think he had nothing left in the tank, he looked like he was wilting more to me.

At least Novak played the first set.

When any player has to withdraw, the human side of the player is what is clearly visible. Expecting the world #1 to be an automaton is an unnecessary expectation.

Djoker is the best judge of his physical condition and should be respected for his decision.

There are many withdrawals which are looked at derisively but, we as fans, should appreciate what these players bring to the court.

A healthy sport is a better sport for both, players and spectators, alike.

Quite a few strawmen to knock over there laverfan.

I'm not suggesting he be an automaton; 4 dolly serves and the match was done and the result in the books.

If nothing else it means we now have to listen to socal bleat on about Fognini and shoulders being the only reason Djokovic isn't unbeaten since the O2 (when of course he lost because he had Davis Cup on his mind...... )