Matt Banahan - what am I missing?

I thought for sure that Banahan had played himself out of the 30 man squad by his performances over the last two weeks, however apparently not (at least not according the the telegraph announcement of the squad).

Now I am sure the England management know a lot more about Rugby team selection and player selection but I miss something here. Can someone enlighten me as to what makes this guys international class.

It is not his great handling skills, as big me go Simon Shaw is far more dextrous.

It is not his electric pace, maybe he is quick but not off the mark, again as big men go I believe croft is much quicker.

It is not his great arial capabilities as he demonstrated his limitations against Wales

It is not his great rugby nous

It is not his great defence

So I am left with his size and ability to cover wing and centre, but size is only useful if you have the ability to use it, this man was stopped in his tracks by Shane Williams and can't both tuilagi and Armitage cover wing and centre.

So please someone with selection experience, can you explain?

Every coach has their favourites. Banahan is one of MJ's favourites. Strangely enough 3 of MJ's favourites have links with Bath - Hape,Banahan and Borthwick.

Banahan is a good club player. He hasn't brought his club form to international level.

MJ wants Banahan to be the white Lomu but it will never happen.

I agree - I think he'll be a very good club player for many years to come, but at international level, he just doesn't have what it takes. Whether, in a few years, he can be moulded into an inside centre, only time will tell.

Ickle Shane showed Banahan that skill does normally beat size still.

rugbyfan we'll have to wait and see. Banahan will still get into the England squad.

Would it be a blessing in disguise if England crash out of the world cup in the pool stages?

MJ and his cronies could be given the boot and we could bring in Jim Mallinder.

beshocked wrote:
Would it be a blessing in disguise if England crash out of the world cup in the pool stages?

MJ and his cronies could be given the boot and we could bring in Jim Mallinder.

No! As bad as England are at times i really think we have the basis of a very good team. after the world cup tuilagi will surely be the regular 13, so if we can sort out a few other issues - the back row balance and inside centre - then the current squad is very capable of success.

His horrendous neck tattoo was meant to distract the Welsh.

rugbyfan the backrow balance has been a mess for sometime. Ditto with the centres.

The likes of Ford and Wells have been around for too long. With them in charge of the defence and forwards respectively England will continue to be mediocre.

MJ was foolish to not change his whole coaching staff when he took over as England manager.

The current squad is depressing the likes of Fourie,Hape,Banahan,Cueto,Flutey are uninspiring.

The front five is promising I agree but without a properly functioning backrow or centres - tries are going to be hard to score.

Look in contrast at the French and Welsh who seem to be building well.

rugbyfan the backrow balance has been a mess for sometime. Ditto with the centres.

I know this, but to be fair to the management there aren't too many options in either of those areas, especially the back row. England doesn't have an outstanding 7 or 8, so there is little choice for MJ. i actually think the forwards are doing a pretty good job so Wells shouldn't be blamed for too much..

I have to agree that Banahan has all the physical attributes to be a great player, but he just seems to have the infallible ability to choose the wrong option at every opportunity.

Some of his errors are crass, it is almost impossible to believe that he has even seen a game of rugby before, let alone had a successful club career. Talk about lacking the top two inches - do the other players in the team have to dress him to ensure that he doesnt put his shirt on back to front?

Maybe when Shane retires he can have his brain transplanted into Banaman's body

The thing which most depresses me about Banahan is his inabality to drive through the tackle - with his momentum he really should do better. It's a bit of a NH trait taking the tackle rather than forcing the tackler to bring you down.

Yea and he never seems to go for the hand off, he's just happy to take contact and recycle. If we wanted that at wing we may as well but Shaw out there, at least he'd take the kick off!

I think Banahan is going to be on of those players who never becomes a popular player for England despite being a very good club level player.

For Bath he is very good, but most importantly he is used properly, coming off the fly-half, offering himself. For England, it seems as if he just stays on his wing. Surely if youve got an 18 stone winger you want him on the crash ball as much as possible? I will admit he should have finished off the try again Wales but I'm sure we could use him more effectively.

I thought he played quite well at home against Wales - made a few good runs. He was terrible at the MS though. Just didn't make any impact on the tackler at all whenever he got the ball.

Bathman_in_London wrote:I think Banahan is going to be on of those players who never becomes a popular player for England despite being a very good club level player.

For Bath he is very good, but most importantly he is used properly, coming off the fly-half, offering himself. For England, it seems as if he just stays on his wing. Surely if youve got an 18 stone winger you want him on the crash ball as much as possible? I will admit he should have finished off the try again Wales but I'm sure we could use him more effectively.

I agree part of it is the Eng management not using him effectively, he did come in for the short ball from Flood, but it was so choriographed and poorly executed with sloppy decoy runners that every time there were at least two forwards waiting to smash him.

It does seem that unless you're Ashton and able to think of your own game plan then the Eng management have very few ideas on how to use a wing except for catching kicks.

I have personally never seen Banahan play for either England or Bath and impress me. He reminds me of another previous England Experiment in Barry John Mather.

What would frustrate me if I were an England supporter would be the fact that young talent isnt being tried instead.

So many pundits on here call for Twelvetrees, Allen, Barrit as center options. I always rated Simpson Daniel on the wing but they havent had a chance.

Do you feel that frustration...?

Or am I really missing something...?

Banahan's got a good record against Argentina. Beat them and we're probably through to the QF. Maybe that's the thinking.

HammerofThunor wrote:Banahan's got a good record against Argentina. Beat them and we're probably through to the QF. Maybe that's the thinking.

Fair point. Banahan does tend to have scored most of his international tries against Argentina. A bit like Shane with Japan.

HammerofThunor wrote:Banahan's got a good record against Argentina. Beat them and we're probably through to the QF. Maybe that's the thinking.

I am sure it is more complex than that.

Often a coach and his team see something in a player that us fans rarely do. Take the Welsh Hooker Huw Bennett for example who has taken more abject criticism than any player i know, but Gatland was right and he is now taking accolades.

Has he got a brain, because he doesn't have a Rugby brain, George North another big winger showed when he set up Alun Wyn Jones try on Saturday he shimmied inward and then veered outwards, he could have scored the try himself, but he drew the covering player and passed inside to AWJ, who scored easily.

Ive gotta be fair, the more i watch the one on one with Shane 10 yards out, the worse it looks each time.

Maybe that'll one day be on the "what happens next" in question of sport...

Im surprised one of the England forwards didnt lamp him after all their hard work that game.

"Im surprised one of the England forwards didnt lamp him after all their hard work that game."

Are you sure they didn't?

dummy_half wrote:Are you sure they didn't?

I hope they did, jokes aside England had nearly complete dominance up until that point.

And you know Cueto was thinking to himself "after all this time, all of my hard work, theres the 1 on 1 I was waiting for, and hes f**ked that right up, that was MIIIIIIINE!"

Bathman_in_London wrote:I think Banahan is going to be on of those players who never becomes a popular player for England despite being a very good club level player.

For Bath he is very good, but most importantly he is used properly, coming off the fly-half, offering himself. For England, it seems as if he just stays on his wing. Surely if youve got an 18 stone winger you want him on the crash ball as much as possible? I will admit he should have finished off the try again Wales but I'm sure we could use him more effectively.

I completely agree with this. Based on club form, Banahan would be a certainty to start for England. Sadly the England backs coaches use him in an entirely different and inappropriate way. For Bath he's allowed more freedom to pick his lines and angles, and seems to be on the ball an awful lot more. If all you're going to do is ask him to stick to his wing, hit the line in a predictable and one dimensional manner and palm down the odd cross-field kick, then there are frankly dozens of better wingers in England. If the back play is going to be telegraphed and static, based around the slick handling skills of Mike Tindall, then don't pick Banahan. With Hape, Tindall and Banahan in the back line, you have two many bosh merchants.