Two most valuable players to each side

Ok, who are the two most important, most vital players to each side. Players their team simply cannot afford to lose.

South Africa
For South Africa it simply has to be Victor Matfield and Bismarck du plessis. Matfield is simply the best lineout operator in the world and is vital for his leadership as well. Du Plessis, the best hooker in the world by some margin. Strong, aggressive with an incredibly work rate. Lots of people expecting him to have a fantastic world cup.

Australia
Has to be Genia. One of the best players in the world and vital for the way Australia want to play the game.
Rob Horwill is my second choice, one of the few quality front five forwards Australia have, Really excited to see how his captaincy affects the team.

New Zealand
Do I even need to say it? Without Dan Carter and Richie McCaw, they are very beatable.

England
Wilkinson. His experience and ability to turn pressure into points will be vital. Second choice, I'm gonna have to say Easter. Experienced and as no one else has seen a huge amount of game time at 8, an early injury to him would leave us with Haskell at 8 for the whole competition. Whilst I'm sure Haskell will be an incredible 8 in a few years, he's not ready yet.

France
France have great depth in most areas and I am not the most clued up on french rugby. But Dusatoir for his leadership and consistency and Harinordoquy for his skill and versatility.

Italy
Gonna have to say Masi at fullback and Castro at tighthead. Both very very good players.

Wales
Adam Jones. Probably Wales most important player.
Gavin Henson, only kidding. James Hook for his versatility and skill.

Scotland
I would say Barclay, but Scotland also have great strength in their backrow. Will probably say Richie Gray would be one of the biggest losses, as would Joe Ansbro. One of the few very exciting Scottish backs.

Ireland.
Gonna have to say O'Connell. Their lineout looks a lot better, and Ireland seem to be more focused and fired up when he's playing.
My second choice is Sean O'brien. Whilst I'm a huge fan of Ferris, he is very injury prone and O'Briens ball carrying is a huge positive for Ireland and how they want to play.

Your thoughts?

Ireland:

Mike Ross - we have nobody who can cover him. A scary lack of depth in this area.

Brian O'Driscoll - 13 has been the one position neglected by Declan Kidney when it comes to strenght in depth.

Ireland-

Mike Ross. Simply no other tighthead who can scrum.
David Wallace. Needed to add balance to the backrow.

If Ferris comes in for O'Brien, I don't think we lose that much. I agree on O'Connell. He is simply massive for us.

Good call on Ross actually. Still, at least you're not wheeling out John Hayes!

Ireland, it has got to be Mike Ross and BOD. We have no other good tightheads, (Court seems to be more of a loose head) while no one else has seen significant game time at 13.

Agree on Mike Ross. Then Drico or O'Connell. Possibly just Drico cos of his creative powers.

For Italy - forget Castro - they have a few props. I would say Parisse.

France - good calls there on back row, but I reckon Trinh-Duc is very influential at the moment for them. they have no obvious replacement as I dont rate Skrela.

Flankertye how can you not go for Parisse for Italy?

Another play who NZ would miss greatly is Conrad Smith.

For England I would say an in form Youngs and Ashton are very important.

For Scotland I would say Jackson and Gray.

Sexton and BOD for Ireland.

Warburton and Adam Jones for Wales.

Can't argue with France's choices.

Trinh-Duc is comfortably Frances most valuable player.

True on Parisse. I'm still sticking by Masi though.
Would they really though? New Zealand have some great centres. SBW and Nonu can play 13, as can Kahui.
Ashton is also incredibly important. I'd say Sharples could cover, but he's untested at this level.

I would have gone with Masi and Parrisse for Italy, definitely Serg!

As for Wales, it's clearly Sam Warburton as well as Adam Jones. We missed Sam at the breakdown against Argentina; Adam would have been quite handy in both games against England.

Speaking of England, surely you could have picked somebody better than Easter...

I'd say David Pocock for Aussie is absolutely crucial.

A lot of people are saying the openside flanker is one of the most important players.
McCaw, Pocock, Brussow, Warburton..

And we don't have one !!

If you have Ferris and O'Brien on the flanks, you do not need a fetcher. Trust me.

For me I would say Mike Ross because of the negative impact on the scrum when he isn't there. I would then say Tommy Bowe because he is the real breaking ability in the Ireland back line. Trimble, earls are far more lateral in their running. A lot of our breaks (not that there have been loads) tend to put the ball carrier free-but with no support. Bowe provides a far more dangerous threat.

Considering for years, this question would have put us with ROG and Hayes, Ireland have progessed but only solved one of their critical areas in terms of depth.

Wales


Adam Jones - adds so much to our scrum

Sam Warburton - adds so much to break down and turnover ball

Dare I say.....for Wales we can't afford to lose Bennett! Now you could have won a few quid betting against that statement some months ago. What a mess.

For Wales:

Adam Jones is the only fit World class front row forward available and the replacements available are just not up to scratch.

Warburton is (incredibly) the only 7 chosen in the squad.

None of the other players in the squad is a bolted on first choice (apart from possibly Bennett by default).

For England, Youngs is now a vital player in that the back-up to him is either mediocre or very inexperienced. Also Ashton, as our biggest try scoring threat (and again given the quality of the other wingers in the squad - none of them play the same way or have his pace).

For Ireland, I think the two you'd miss most are POC and BOD - O'Connell seems to be the heartbeat of your pack and BOD is simply a high class operator even now that he's lost half a step in pace. Back up for these two is not even close to the same class.

The ABs is obvious - McCaw and Carter. The two best players of the last 5 years, in positions where there is not a lot of back-up for either.

agree about wabrs and adam jones for wales.

england i would say ashton rather than easter- you could see how much england missed him at the MS where he would have likely been in support.

for scotland i think Evans would be a gutting injury for them- he is a very good player.

italy- parrise easily, masi is very good also but without parrise...

ireland- BOD

flankertye wrote:If you have Ferris and O'Brien on the flanks, you do not need a fetcher. Trust me.

Trust you? But I hardly know you...

Out of interest, why do you think that?

I think for Wales its pretty straight forward who our two most valuable players are:

Adam Jones - Mitchell disapponited me in the Warm Up games and we have no-one to match Adam.

Warburton - With him being the only natural 7 in the sqaud if he gets injured we would have to move our best no6 there to cover or after that Faletau. I dread to think what would happen if we had to play R Jones or Powell there.

I think that Warburton is probably the most important player in the whelsh squad, as Gatland has not opted to take another out and out openside to the tournament (I assume Lydiate will cover if needed). And then I think it is between Adam Jones Or Paul James as the next most important. Reasoning behind Adam Jones does not need explainng. But I think Paul James will be coming off the bench and have to keep any momentum in the pack going, or even worse he will have to inject some extra oomph in there.

HURLEY_BURLEY wrote:

flankertye wrote:If you have Ferris and O'Brien on the flanks, you do not need a fetcher. Trust me.

Trust you? But I hardly know you...

Out of interest, why do you think that?

Its very much, the england method of flanking play. But with these guys, you could do it much better.
Pick two big guys on your flanks, and Simply smash the opposition off the rucks.
Its the same reason guys like Sheridan and Buckley have won international caps. Even more so with Buckley, They're physically strong enough to clear anyone out of rucks.

yeah, fair enough.
My pics are still Ross & BOD anyway.
Don't think Ireland can be accused of lacking strength in depth in the back row!
If another country could take one of our back-rowers who would it be?

Heaslip please!
A number 8 with some pace! Oh how I'd love that!

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I think that Warburton is probably the most important player in the whelsh squad, as Gatland has not opted to take another out and out openside to the tournament (I assume Lydiate will cover if needed). And then I think it is between Adam Jones Or Paul James as the next most important. Reasoning behind Adam Jones does not need explainng. But I think Paul James will be coming off the bench and have to keep any momentum in the pack going, or even worse he will have to inject some extra oomph in there.

Warbs is something special, but we could cobble together a backrow without him.

Adam Jones, however, is irreplaceable. He anchors us in the tight. Without him the Welsh scrum will disintegrate.

The other irreplaceable player is (and I cant believe I am about to say this) Huw Bennett. Because of injury we are left with only one fit hooker who can throw reasonably straight.

Lose either of these and we may as well head home.

Ashton - aside from his pace and actual try scoring...he's the ONLY player in the England squad who appears capable of running good lines...and creating space from others!

Lawes - We appear to be worryingly poor at the breakdowns...and i think big Courtney is gonna be crucial.

Seagultaf wrote:For Wales:

Adam Jones is the only fit World class front row forward available and the replacements available are just not up to scratch.

Warburton is (incredibly) the only 7 chosen in the squad.

None of the other players in the squad is a bolted on first choice (apart from possibly Bennett by default).

agree on these 2. lots of people r talking about the importance of 7s and Wales only taking 1 but dont think any of the other teams r taking more than 1 are they? maybe we actually have quite good depth in the "fetcher" 7 department cos i dont think many other teams even had good 7s that didnt make it.

ML wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I think that Warburton is probably the most important player in the whelsh squad, as Gatland has not opted to take another out and out openside to the tournament (I assume Lydiate will cover if needed). And then I think it is between Adam Jones Or Paul James as the next most important. Reasoning behind Adam Jones does not need explainng. But I think Paul James will be coming off the bench and have to keep any momentum in the pack going, or even worse he will have to inject some extra oomph in there.

Warbs is something special, but we could cobble together a backrow without him.

Adam Jones, however, is irreplaceable. He anchors us in the tight. Without him the Welsh scrum will disintegrate.

The other irreplaceable player is (and I cant believe I am about to say this) Huw Bennett. Because of injury we are left with only one fit hooker who can throw reasonably straight.

Lose either of these and we may as well head home.

ML,

We could you're right but I wouldn't fancy playing any of the top sides with a cobbled one. Obvious choice IMO would be to move Lydiate to across to 7 but then who at 6.

R Jones would be ok but that would depend who at 8.

Jones
Faletau
Lydiate

would be the best other combo most prob.

if warburton is injured can we fly martyn or turnbull out as a replacement?

adam j is our hardest to replace player then awj imo although both warburton and lydiate would be huge misses

jb1973 wrote:if warburton is injured can we fly martyn or turnbull out as a replacement?

adam j is our hardest to replace player then awj imo although both warburton and lydiate would be huge misses

jb,

I think Turnbull would be the best option with the future in mind, that said I guess Delve would be one of the easiest to call up given he is now living down under.

Wouldn't be like for like I know but then there is no like for like in the squad anyway

What happened to the 'controller' at 10 being the most important for the Welsh supporters? All the energy thats been put into press and people forcing the issue on hook at ten and now not a supporter in sight , apart from 1 choosing hook for his versatility.
I support the choices of Warbs and Adam, but a side shouting one of their most important players is the 10 has surely got a place in the final nailed on ! !

I didn't go for wales flyhalf as Hook is on good form, as is Preistland and Jones won't let you down.

As its always been said the game is won up front and with out Jones and Warburton in there we won't do a lot

Mike Ross and Paul O'Connell

BOD is a legend but we need him to find his form.

nottins_jones wrote:I would have gone with Masi and Parrisse for Italy, definitely Serg!

As for Wales, it's clearly Sam Warburton as well as Adam Jones. We missed Sam at the breakdown against Argentina; Adam would have been quite handy in both games against England.

Speaking of England, surely you could have picked somebody better than Easter...

Bang on re Adam and Sam.I think the Easter reference was a joke!

For Wales:

Jones injury, Hooks vesatility and Preistlands inexperience means than none of them are bolted on first choice for the starting 15. So cannot be considered as being "most valuable".

Saying that if all three were unavailable!!!!!!!!!!

Interesting difference of interpretation here. For the SH teams and France, people are taking "most valuable" to mean "best" or "most influential". For the other NH teams, some posters are taking it to mean "players we are most screwed without," hence mentions of Easter, Mike Ross, Huw Bennett, etc. An accurate measure of expectations?

Between Ross, POC and BOD for Ireland - no ome else comes close, except, maybe Healy.

I would actually go with Ross and POC.
Not mentioning BOD is a big call but it has more to do with the lack of cover in the other 2 positions. Simply put the drop in quality would be greater.

By that same criteria the back row don't come into it as we have 4 top class players.

Scotland
Murray and Lamont (S)

Wales
Jones (A) and Warburton

For the wallabies I think it is Cooper, as he gives a chance to win it. He may lose it as well, but without him we won't win.

Second would be any one of Slipper, Alexander or Kepu. We don't have a viable fourth prop with Robinson injured.

England have about half as much swagger without Ashton and Youngs.

Wales are about half the team without Warbuton, Hook and (to a lesser extent) Lydiate.

Ireland will be scuppered in the tight without Ross and even if O'Driscoll plays badly, the team play better when he is there and captain.

For Scotland, Barclay and Brown are two of the best in their position in the world and having Gray in the team means a minimum of three lineout steals on opposition ball per match.

Ok, if you could steal one player from another country. Who would it be?
Just to make it intresting, no you can't have Dan Carter or McCaw.

For England, I'd go for Keiran Reed from New zealand as our number 8.

Probably should be a prop, but id take Juan Smith (my favorite non-Aussie player).

I'd grab Fourie du Preez for NZ

For Scotland I'd say the key players are really those for whom we have no cover, and in that regard the two irreplacables are probably Ford and Jacobsen. Hardly exciting, but Lawson and Dickinson are both quite a big step down.

Otherwise I'd say we could replace anyone fairly easily.

If I had to steal a player from another country it would most definitetly be Carter. Easy choice.

Oi FES you can't have Carter!

KRD bang on about du Preez Him and Bismarck would make the team kinda flawless!

I would mind Mermoz of france at 12 for england..