Tsonga on Novak....spot on!

"He plays incredible tennis, but he's not an alien. In fact, what he does is doing everything better than the others. He doesn't hit harder, he doesn't hit the ball earlier. But he's always there. This is tiring when you play against him. He does not have the best return on the tour. But on every return, he returns well, and he's always there. So what does it is his consistency, and he has no weaknesses." - Jo-Wilfried Tsonga confirms that the ATP does not allow extra-terrestrials on the circuit, and that world number one Novak Djokovic is just a pretty solid player"

Exactly what some of us have been saying. He is very much a grinder like Nadal but with a much better technique and more complete, balanced game (more agressive than the typical grinder).

Tsonga's use of "tiring" just sums up the physicality of playing such players nowadays despite being himself pretty fit too. This also explains why Murray, Djoko and Nadal consistently reach the later stages of slams, as the physical game pays off more in slams. Federer has of course a good record of reaching the later stages of slams but that was essentially due to his smooth game and amazing talent.

You really can't get over the fact these players beat Federer at will huh? Geee let it go. It has been proven without doubt here how Federer is equally physical if not more than these players. They just happen to be better than him most times especially in the case of Nadal.
Tsonga is right, Djokovic Is not alien but neither has any other player in history. The game is consistency and doing the same thing over again and Tsonga is right; hitting the ball over the net.

Some just can't see beyond their Federer hate. Fortunately his 'overall' record is enough to satisfy some simple folks. Let the top men get on with their games and let us rejoice. Hope we have a great USO 2012.

Tsonga put it better than even I could, or at least nearly as well.

That's why the wow factor is lacking with Djokovic. Somehow the phrase "Wow, he SO consistent!" doesn't sit right.

And that's why it seems reasonable to think the game is in a transitional phase, waiting for the next genius to appear. The modern game with it's hyper-fitness, scientifically-based dietary optimality, and digital technique analysis tools, sports psychologists, etc. needs a player who can breathe some magic back into the sport.

Etc. etc.

Nole is the best player that's ever held a racquet. I'm serious. For those who disagree, if you can't see t, wait and yo will.

Don't believe the hype and brainwash, take a good look at what Nole can do with a racquet. Those who have played the sport will know what I"m talking about.

Simple_Analyst,

It has also been proven without doubt here that you don't know what is the meaning of physical. Its only its that "physical superiority" that Nadal, Djokovic, Murray have over Federer that proves vital for their success against Federer and nothing else. Physical aspect of the game is not viewed in the same value of talent as some other skills like great timing, smooth footwork etc. And this is not in my view, yours and others too. Its like silver and gold, gold is always viewed more precious. That's why you try to show again and again that Federer is equally physical, in a derogatory way of course to bring down his skill and an excuse of the players like Nadal, Djokovic, Murray who can't match Federer in his talent. One can't become more talented with training, practice, workouts, diet etc. Talent is something natural. But can you become more physical? Of course, develop more muscles, train harder, build lung capacity to stay in rallies like forever, improve diet. I;m not saying Nadal, Djo, Murray have no talent nor that there is absolute no physical side of Federer's game. Nadal, Djo, Murray are all talent players, but its not the talent that gets them to their success against Federer, its their physical superiority. On the other hand, its never Federer's "physical" game that is his strength when playing Nadal, Djo or Murray.

Simple_Analyst wrote:You really can't get over the fact these players beat Federer at will huh? Geee let it go.

Why couldn't Nadal get the "will" to defeat Federer at WTF 2010 final. It would have been a great win for a tournament that has never won and is only second to Slams. Why couldn't an "invincible" Djokovic who was regularly defeating Nadal, muster enough "will" to defeat Federer at the FO 2011. He would always have able to defeat Nadal in the FO finals and hence by now he would have had 3 Slams for the year and even a shot at calender slam coming into US open. Why he didn't do it? Kindly answer. Gee..

I'm just thinking, don't get me wrong here. You do sound like a poster on earlier 606, Unbiased_educator. Are you that person? I hope not . U_E was totally uneducated, and had the dubious record of having the most 1 star(0 star actually) rated articles. For a while he also worked as Nadal's bu*t-wip*r, but I see in matches that Nadal is managing his bu*t on his own, so seemingly he is not in that job too. Everyone does miss making fun of that idiot. I guess you too.

Raiders,

He is without any doubt U_E.

Same mumbo jumbo and a barely concealed hatred of Federer.

It must pain him that The Nadull is being humiliated by journeymen whilst in his peak years.

And yes...

UE was the sorriest excuse for a poster ever seen on the old 606.

Pathetically poorly written articles with the same circular tiresome arguments.

He was a WUM with no imagination, no literary skills and was quite frankly very obtuse.

But you're right... it was enjoyable ridiculing him.

What would you expect from a Federer fan like the one above besides paragraphs worthy of a comedy script? Good to see other hybrids have joined. Get over it people, Nadal has owned Federer for 7 years non-stop now. No amount of fan boy comment or article can change that.
So when the 17 year old Nadal or the 19 year old Djokovic or the 19 year old Murray all defeated the then No.1 Federer for the first time, it's because they had a physical advantage over the player who trains like a Navy Seal? Very funny.

Novak is clearly the most aggressive player when compared to murray or Nadal. Is this the same Tsonga who basically just got mauled against Novak and has lost the biggest matches of his career to Novak. Tsonga was able to rack up a few wins during Novak's serve less days.



Technical ability in tennis can be a variety of things. One thing it isn't however is the ability to shank more, and have that be confused as talent. Tennis is about controlled aggression and finding the right mix to your game and conditions. Novak has many incredible technical as well as physical traits. He has a great deal of weapons and is the best on the tour in numerous categories or near the best. I would say that he changes direction on the ball of both wings better than anyone in the game. This is one of the most important and underrated technical qualities that fails to get mentioned.

Simple_Analyst,

Forget this Nadal, Federer, Djokovic thing for a while. Drop this all. I just put a question that you most easily and most definitely can answer. Are you that dim-witted moron called unbiased_educator ? You can just answer yes or no, simple? emancipator is suggesting that you are, but to me you don't exactly sound pathetic like him.

So can you just confirm this for all of us?

Here is my rating of Djoko weapons:



1. Best or top 3 two handed backhands on tour. He can go any direction and hit winners while being very rock solid off of.



2. Return, clearly without question the best return in the game, and a very aggressive returner as well. Not necessarily going for winners but always coming over the backhand return and putting a solid well struck and placed return in over and over again that will aggressively dictate the point to come.



3. Forehand, top 5 or 10: This shot is another technical area he has worked on and has improved greatly over the last 2-3 years. And he hits a great deal of winners with it.



4. Change of direction: Best in the business, can go up the line, cross court, or inside out off either wing with incredible consistency and fluidity. Really he does this about as well as federer did or better even at fed's absolute peak.



5. Feel shots: one of the best backhand lobs and the best drop shotter in the game.



In synopsis:



Top 3 double handed backhands



Top 5 or 10 forehands on tour



#1 returner by a country mile



Incredible change of direction on the ball



Best drop shotter in the game



One of the best backhand lobs, maybe the best



Only those with limited knowledge of tennis focus solely on the physicality and fail to see Novak's potent arsenal of weapons, technical ability, and talent.

droogle wrote:Tsonga put it better than even I could, or at least nearly as well.

That's why the wow factor is lacking with Djokovic. Somehow the phrase "Wow, he SO consistent!" doesn't sit right.

And that's why it seems reasonable to think the game is in a transitional phase, waiting for the next genius to appear. The modern game with it's hyper-fitness, scientifically-based dietary optimality, and digital technique analysis tools, sports psychologists, etc. needs a player who can breathe some magic back into the sport.

Etc. etc.

Exactly my thoughts.

Raiders, good posts too. Good to see this forum is in good hands.

NITB, I think even Nole knows that he hasn't got Fed's magic.

He is close to being the best player ever but that is a very ephemeral title as the best is simply the number one. However on the day, I have not seen a better player than Federer yet...I am serious too.

noleisthebest wrote:Nole is the best player that's ever held a racquet. I'm serious. For those who disagree, if you can't see t, wait and yo will.

Don't believe the hype and brainwash, take a good look at what Nole can do with a racquet. Those who have played the sport will know what I"m talking about.

NITB: I always thougth in the past you were a reasonable poster. Afterwards I thought you were getting a bit too carried away with your Djokovich obsession. Are U serious!! If so I am now officially worried for your mental health

PS: I have played the sport, for sure more than you and at a higher level than you

@ Tenez: yes that's quite apparent to me too: the Djoker doesn't belong to the same echelon as the likes of Sampras, Federer and regretfully I have to say Nadal. The reason being: he doesn't hold a durable, clear competitive advantage over the other top guys. He simply, for the moment, has found his mojo while other have not, he has just ticked all the boxes in the right way, nothing less, nothing more.

lol "Don't believe the hype and brainwash, take a good look at what Nole can do with a racquet"

The mind boggles!!

He views Djokovic as a phenomenon, perhaps the greatest one to have struck the game. The 24-year-old Serb has lost only twice this year: to Roger Federer in the semi-finals of the French Open and to Andy Murray at Cincinnati on Sunday when the world No.1 retired with a shoulder injury when 6-4, 3-0 down.

“I feel very strongly that this is an historic year,” said Drysdale, who has spent more than 30 years in the commentary box and before that was a player who reached No.4 in the world. “I’ve got to make this point about what Djokovic has done so far. You win five of these Masters 1000 tournaments that he has – five in a row – and you’ve got two grand slams under your belt. It’s really important to put in perspective the fact that he has had to play against the top players in the world week-in, week-out.

“That to me is the most significant thing when you compare the year that he’s had with, for example, [John] McEnroe’s year when he lost only three. In those years, every year, the players could, and did, duck each other, so you’d have [Jimmy] Connors in one tournament, McEnroe in another, [Ivan] Lendl in another, and they’d get together in the slams.



“In this modern game, you cannot duck the best players. And he has had to beat Nadal five times and he’s had to beat Federer four times.”



http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/other-sports-news/it-s-important-to-put-in-perspective-the-fact-that-he-s-had-to-play-against-the-top-players-in-the-world-week-in-week-out-1.1119905?58766



Cliff Drysdale was a very accomplished pro singles and doubles player and has been a broadcaster for 30 years, he seems to think that Djokovic is already one of the greats and maybe the most complete player yet.

Federer at his peak is the best all round player ever to play the game...

and it's not even close.

He had the greatest FH ever in the game.

A top 5 all time serve.

Fantastic movement

Fantastic defense

Great net skills (remember he beat Sampras serving and volleying when Sampras was the defending champion on the old fast grass of W)

Great BH - contrary to misconceptions Roger had a great BH with great variety and he could go any direction with it and hit winners for fun. Also a great slice and great defence off the BH.

Roger definitely had a better all round game than Djoko - I really don't know where you're coming from NITB.

The only chink in his armour was the high (over shoulder height) topspin ball to his BH and only one player in the history of tennis can play that shot consistently to Roger's BH.

Oh and of course..

the wow factor.

Roger had that in a way that no other player has had.

I mean how many insane shots has he hit over the years. Infact on Youtube there are whole highlight videos of just his tweeners, forget about all the other ridiculous shots he's hit over the years.

noleisthebest wrote:Nole is the best player that's ever held a racquet. I'm serious. For those who disagree, if you can't see t, wait and yo will.

Don't believe the hype and brainwash, take a good look at what Nole can do with a racquet. Those who have played the sport will know what I"m talking about.

"Nole is the best player that's ever held a racquet"

You've been at the trifle sherry again you naughty girl.

I hope that he doesn't start going back the way or you will be hitting yourself over the head with the empty bottle

Jeremy_Kyle wrote:@ Tenez: yes that's quite apparent to me too: the Djoker doesn't belong to the same echelon as the likes of Sampras, Federer and regretfully I have to say Nadal. The reason being: he doesn't hold a durable, clear competitive advantage over the other top guys. He simply, for the moment, has found his mojo while other have not, he has just ticked all the boxes in the right way, nothing less, nothing more.

But I would not expect a young player to have a positive H2H versus the most talented player ever and against the most physical player ever. In that respect, Djoko's H2H v Fed and Nadal is not very relevant to me.

Djoko is a kind of good, or shall we say "solid", compromise between Nadal and Federer. He is not as physical as Nadal nor as talented as Federer but he is close to be as fit and fast as Nadal but with better technique, talent and is mentally the strongest in my view, especially since his 2011 physical improvement.

He is a good though not exciting recipe.

I do think Federer at his best, especially on faster surfaces, is twice as good.

Has anybody read read Federer's view on slow USO recently? Amazing how they keep slowing conds down!...even at he USO, the formerly "medium pace" courts.

Actually agree with tenez, Djoko is sort of a fed and nadal hybrid borrowing aspects from both those guys. Not as good a shotmaker as fed, not quite as much a counterpuncher as nadal.

NO, I haven't had any sherry, just hot chocolate...obvioulsy , there' still room for improvement in Nole's arsenal: honing his slices,softening his hands....adding 5-10mph on his serve....but those are fine touches...he can do just about anything with that racquet anyway.
I agree that Federer's forehand is more attractive and deadly, his serve at his peak was awesome, his backhand was his weakness, though, just not strong enough in the modern DBH game of today, but as single bakchands go, his is fantastic.
Compared with Novak, Federer's forehand is %5 better (that's peak forehand, sheer speed of that wrist flick) but his bakchand is about 30% behind Novak's and that's where Nole overtakes him as a package.

That's not how it looked at the FO.

droogle wrote:That's not how it looked at the FO.

Yeah but it did look that way the other 3 times they played this year at the AO, dubai, and IW.

I have to say that the reason I haven't posted a comment of merit is due to the title. 2 tennis players and a comment made famous by Strongbow!! Big no no!

droogle wrote:That's not how it looked at the FO.

You've got a point, and I won't be citing various reasons for that loss.

There is a very good reason why Federer never liked Novak, and that reason ain't Nole's parents

What you are seeing in 2011 is Nole approaching his peak. Most of the very top players have devastating skill sets we can only dream about, but it's their personalities/nature that make them play the way they play; I have always preferred attacking tennis of Federer, Djokovic, recently Tsonga who is less sophisticated in style, but still very attractive to watch.

Then you have the counter-punchers Murray, Simon, Monfils, all whom I love to watch. People tend to look down on them as if they are 2nd rate players, but I reckon it's harder to be a counter-puncher than attacker, I know I never could play that game. It's a roundabout way of playing the game of tennis, but really interesting when you get to watch a good attacker vs good counter-puncher match-up.

Sorry to Nadal fans, but I never liked his style, just leaves me completely cold.

Nitb, are you the type of fangirl who gets giddy when they read about their favourites in public?

Novak is obviously skilled, but the way you go on you would have thought that he had captured 10+ slams already, when infact he has played high quality tennis for only 7 months, I wonder, do you have a shrine of Novak in your basement?

Anyway, it's me birthday today...

Happy Burfday NITB

Hilarious stuff from the Djokovic fans who, as predicted, have let one excellent season against a fading Nadal and faded Federer get everything out of proportion.

This why socals Fognini nonsense actually matters; though he pretends otherwise it is part of a self-delusionary process to make himself believe his wildest dreams aboyt Nole.

And them, now and again, the mask slips and the drivel pours out.

He's a Hewitt style retriever having a great season. He's yet to merit consideration in my all-time top 15 list. After all, 3 Slams ?

but I reckon it's harder to be a counter-puncher than attacker,

That's could be the subject of another thread. I disagree there though I agree that counter punchers need to "work harder".

It's in fact one's natural talent that by and large determine what style you play.

If Nadal plays a fitter player who can retrieve anything Nadal throws at him, Nadal will have no choice but to turn an attacking player that day.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Nitb, are you the type of fangirl who gets giddy when they read about their favourites in public?

Novak is obviously skilled, but the way you go on you would have thought that he had captured 10+ slams already, when infact he has played high quality tennis for only 7 months, I wonder, do you have a shrine of Novak in your basement?

he,he, you're so funny...no, I'm not that kind of fan....I have just decided to publicly give Nole credit his talent deserves.
Even if he doesn't win a single title, I won't change my opinion.

Stg like Amy Winehouse a bit..that girl had a fantastic voice, a REAL talent, but will never go into history of jazz singing because her songs were rubbish (most of them); that still isn't stopping me of listening to 2-3 that were good, much better than hundreds of other people's songs that , won more awards, made more money...

I just love savouring quality however long it lasts and in whichever form it comes...

One of the reasons I love tennis is (I said it in Legenda's thread on the topic once) is because it gives so much and asks for so little.

noleisthebest wrote:Anyway, it's me birthday today...

Ah...so today I agree with you about Djoko being the best ever.....

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:Anyway, it's me birthday today...

Ah...so today I agree with you about Djoko being the best ever.....

Merci Tenez, mon amie

legendkillar wrote:Happy Burfday NITB

Fanks LK

Nitb has a right here to feel happy about her players performance. You guys are missing it but Djokovic is a great of the game historically, he is showing it each and every month winning more and more big titles. And he was a force on the tour for years before it isn't like he came out of nowhere. BB's comments are usually silly have nothing to do with anything. I am more than happy BB in having Djokovic judged on his current methods you are the one who looks silly comparing Djokovic to Hewitt.

Ps happy birthday Nitb

wrote: People tend to look down on them as if they are 2nd rate players, but I reckon it's harder to be a counter-puncher than attacker, I know I never could play that game.

This could be a another top in itself. How is it harder to be a counter-puncher? What is required to become a counter puncher that is so hard? Why would people still look down upon them if its so hard to get?

socal1976 wrote:Nitb has a right here to feel happy about her players performance. You guys are missing it but Djokovic is a great of the game historically, he is showing it each and every month winning more and more big titles. And he was a force on the tour for years before it isn't like he came out of nowhere. BB's comments are usually silly have nothing to do with anything. I am more than happy BB in having Djokovic judged on his current methods you are the one who looks silly comparing Djokovic to Hewitt.

Yeah. Up until 2011 he's been the #3 force for a few years and won a Slam when Federer had GF. Gosh.

3 Slams does not make a "great of the game historically".

It must be added though that currently he has three slams. I would say that it is a fair bet that Novak is far from finished on the slams front so it is best to judge his standings in the game when he has finished. I mean imagine writing off a 23-year-old Federer in 2004?

CaledonianCraig wrote:It must be added though that currently he has three slams. I would say that it is a fair bet that Novak is far from finished on the slams front so it is best to judge his standings in the game when he has finished. I mean imagine writing off a 23-year-old Federer in 2004?

There is every chance, stick to the diet, keep using "that" machine and who knows.

Fitness might be his biggest if only problem in achieving more.

Novak's shoulder injury is due to all those years of terrible serving technique finally catching up with him; he'll withdraw from the US Open and then retire. The vacuum pod will be deemed a method of cheating and he'll be stripped of his GS titles, the shame being remembered for generations. Those Grand Slams will have to be replayed in 2012, Nadal will win all of them bringing his total up to 17.

droogle wrote:Novak's shoulder injury is due to all those years of terrible serving technique finally catching up with him; he'll withdraw from the US Open and then retire. The vacuum pod will be deemed a method of cheating and he'll be stripped of his GS titles, the shame being remembered for generations. Those Grand Slams will have to be replayed in 2012, Nadal will win all of them bringing his total up to 17.

If this was to happen I shudder to think what nitb & socal will do

Haha droogle acts like Djokovic packs this $20,000 vacuum in his suitcase when he's globetrotting, oh dear someone call the nurse!!!