Iron play: should there be a club where you change from compression to sweep?

After learning the wonderful art of compressing the ball, I’ve noticed I’m trying to do it on all irons (even a 2i!), but the results are starting to make me think that this shouldn’t be.

I’m probably looking at the better players/ball-strikers here, but is there an iron which is the trigger point as to how you play the shot? For example, do you compress the ball up to a 5i, but sweep the ball with a 4i or more?

Or am I just talking complete bobbins?

You shouldn't "sweep" any irons off the deck Merc in my opinion.

i'm with SR all irons from the deck should be compressed

Actually on a related note, i hope someone can help me. I have noticed of late that I keep nicking the ball of the turf without taking a divot. Is there a good tip for returning to the proper strike pattern of ball then turf?

Slower swing perhaps to improve your timing or have a look at your ball position.

super_realist wrote:You shouldn't "sweep" any irons off the deck Merc in my opinion.

I'm just finding it very hard to compress a 2i and go the way the other irons do.

It usually squirts out left-to-right and I'm not getting that much distance from it. That is off the deck, though. I'm better off the tee with it.

Merc, a 2i is not an easy club to hit, so don't be too despondent. A lot of people use rescue clubs instead for those sort of lofts as a shorter shaft helps.

SR

You are probably onto something with the slower swimg, I have a habbit of getting a little quick.

One of the things I was concentrating on was my weight transfer, but that got me nowhere. My thinking was that I was rotating early and threfore coming out of the shot. I does not seem to be that.

Mac, I always slow down my swing and shorten my backswing when I have problems with ball striking, helps with timing and accuracy.

Also might be worth focussing slightly ahead of the ball as to not be thinking about the ball and instead on a path which goes straight through the ball.

dont think im good enough with my long irons to compress a 3i or a 4i although fully agree that in an ideal world you wouldnt sweep any iron!

I would say hitting a 2iron off the deck is an art form not easily perfected. You may be better suited to using a 2hybrid or one of the Mizuno FliHi's they are great for anyone struggling with long irons.

Do you know any drills that help shorten the swing?

Mercurio. I hope this is not a thread jack. I was hoping some of the advice I got would help answer your question, as things like ball position might have a lot to do with it.

No drills Mac, just take it back less. People tend to overswing, which is why they are bad ball strikers in the first place. You'll probably find that a well struck shot with a slower and shorter swing flies just as far (and more accurately) than the traditional full swing.

super_realist wrote:Merc, a 2i is not an easy club to hit, so don't be too despondent. A lot of people use rescue clubs instead for those sort of lofts as a shorter shaft helps.

I can't get my head around hybrids - it feels like cheating. I'll feel 'cleaner' using irons.

Knowing that all irons should be compressed is not a problem. I just wanted to know that was the way I should be going about it. I've only had the 2i for 3 weeks. I'll just have to practice with it. It's the same type of iron as the rest of my bag (Callaway X Forged 2007) so I was (obviously, naively) hoping that there wouldn't be too much difference between that and my 3i.

Compressing a 2i will make like a 1i, will it not?

McLaren wrote:Mercurio. I hope this is not a thread jack. I was hoping some of the advice I got would help answer your question, as things like ball position might have a lot to do with it.

Hey, no problem, fella.

Merc, think how few pro's carry a two iron, or even a three iron, favouring rescues and it's hard to argue in their favour.

Forget about thinking what compressing a 2i will "make it into". All that should matter is that you are A) Confident with it and B) aware of how far you hit it.

McLaren wrote:Do you know any drills that help shorten the swing?

Mercurio. I hope this is not a thread jack. I was hoping some of the advice I got would help answer your question, as things like ball position might have a lot to do with it.

Maybe you should just give up and carry a 5 7 and 9 wood???!

I have always swept the ball of the deck. My short irons I take a very shallow divot, but from 6 iron onwards very seldom take a divot, but do not suffer from lack of distance ( 8 iron roughly 150 yards to 4 iron 190 yards)

Does it really matter if you do not take a divot???

OP, I think it's generally accepted that you get a more consistent and solid strike when you hit down on a ball, hitting up on an iron shot off the deck can result in a more thin shot with less control.

Sorry. Call me naïve but what is all this talk about 'compressing' a specific group of irons but not others? I've seen this elsewhere and, forgive me, it's trendy talk for hitting an iron the way it's always meant to have been hit i.e. ball-turf. If you make contact with the ball, it'll compress. By definition.

You shouldn't do anything different for a 2-iron cf. a PW. The steeper lie etc will make you more upright with a PW and tend to give you bigger divots. In addition, if you play a 2-iron up (i.e. nearer your front foot) in your stance you'll never hit a big divot but that doesn't mean you don't hit down on it. In fact, if you don't get it ball-turf it won't go anywhere or get off the ground with any consistency.

If you're good you can, as Mac intimates that he's doing, pick it off the turf and it'll go fine. Tom Watson never hit much of a divot in his prime and he wasn't too bad.

A 2-iron is not an easy club to hit with any consistency but if you get it right it's well worth a place in the bag IMO.

super_realist wrote:OP, I think it's generally accepted that you get a more consistent and solid strike when you hit down on a ball, hitting up on an iron shot off the deck can result in a more thin shot with less control.

I don't think OPW means he's hitting "up" on his longer irons. He's just skimming the grass and taking it pretty clean. I used to know someone who hit irons like that and he was pretty handy and hit it a decent distance too.

S_R

I tend to hit a high flighted ball, never suffer much from thinning a shot if anything my worst shot is hitting it heavy.

My Driver is only 9 degree of loft with a stiff shaft, but hit it very high, with an average distance of 245 yards.

Very well Navy, could well be true, but I think the general thinking is that hitting down on iron shots is generally more consistent.
Personally I don't take much of a divot with the long irons, meaning I'm hitting down less than with the shorter irons, but i'm still hitting in a downward motion rather than upward.
Hitting upward will mean you are hitting on a part of the club not necessarily designed for hitting the ball, so consistency will most likely suffer.

Navy

Yes I take my irons clean of the turf, and reasonably consistent with my ball strike.

Everyone wants to hit it further, if most people decided to be more consistent, with their ball strike, then they would get more distance

When I'm chipping I take the ball clean off the turf. I could hit 20 shots off precisely the same spot and there'd still be grass there. Although if I hit a PW there's a big fish supper.

Navy I agree with you and do not see your comments and supers to be mutually exclusive. I do nip it of the turf but not on purpose and not always how I would like to. When I was hitting ball then turf things were a lot more consistent.

As for the compression comments I took them to mean ball then turf.

McLaren wrote:Do you know any drills that help shorten the swing?

Mercurio. I hope this is not a thread jack. I was hoping some of the advice I got would help answer your question, as things like ball position might have a lot to do with it.

mac, with a 9iron, feet together, try and swing without losing balance -not easy with a full swing. i find its good for getting the hands through the shot too.

op, those distances you quoted: 8i-150, 4i-190 seem decent - certainly wouldn't call them short.

I'm not sure I see hitting a decent divot cf. a clean pick as better. I'm not sure the margin of error is greater for a ball-turf type of blow but I'm open to being contradicted! I think the ball-turf impact is just more typical/natural and tends to result from a weight shift downline and a normal arc radius increase on the downswing. I'd imagine that unless someone is practiced at picking the ball clean they run the risk of losing their swing lag prematurely and hence lose distance but it doesn't sound like OPW does.
I would imagine a decent ball-turf impact to have probably a lower flight/lower launch but not necessarily. I'm not surprised OPW hits a highish trajectory but that's no bad thing necessarily.

ban_bam

I will try that.

I think I may, with the help of the posts on this thread, have worked out the answer to my problem.

I don't think I'm moving the ball towards my front foot as much as I should be when playing the longer irons.

So, yes, whilst you may still come down on the back of the ball with a 2i, if it's further forward in your stance it will feel more like a sweep (as opposed to the compression on a wedge) and this is what I was meaning.

Does this sound reasonable?

Mercurio wrote:

super_realist wrote:Merc, a 2i is not an easy club to hit, so don't be too despondent. A lot of people use rescue clubs instead for those sort of lofts as a shorter shaft helps.

I can't get my head around hybrids - it feels like cheating. I'll feel 'cleaner' using irons.

Knowing that all irons should be compressed is not a problem. I just wanted to know that was the way I should be going about it. I've only had the 2i for 3 weeks. I'll just have to practice with it. It's the same type of iron as the rest of my bag (Callaway X Forged 2007) so I was (obviously, naively) hoping that there wouldn't be too much difference between that and my 3i.

Compressing a 2i will make like a 1i, will it not?

Merc: hybrids have been around in one form or another for a long, long time. Tom Watson was using something very similar back in the 70s and if it was good enough for him..... what about using a 4 or a 5-wood instead? You've got to be a damn good ball-striker to hit a 2-iron off the deck. Very little margin for error I would have thought.

Noshankingtonite wrote:You've got to be a damn good ball-striker to hit a 2-iron off the deck.

Well, if the cap fits . . .

Mercurio wrote:

Noshankingtonite wrote:You've got to be a damn good ball-striker to hit a 2-iron off the deck.

Well, if the cap fits . . .

Can i have that cap back you borrowed Merc

Maverick wrote:Can i have that cap back you borrowed Merc

That Dutch one? Yeah, no problem - it was too tight

You should be using the same swing for every iron, only the ball position should change. The only time it should change is when you are playing a manufactured shot like a punch under the wind or something along those lines.

McLaren wrote:Do you know any drills that help shorten the swing?

Mercurio. I hope this is not a thread jack. I was hoping some of the advice I got would help answer your question, as things like ball position might have a lot to do with it.

Something I am working on too Mac. Kind of. There is a stick drill where you take a tour stick and run it through your front two belt loops on your trousers then take swings with that in place. When the stick stops rotating thats the when your arms should stop also. Its not designed to really shorten the whole swing but just the arm swing. I havent hit balls with this yet btw.

As for hitting down and taking a divot think flat left wrist and maintain angle in your right wrist at impact. If you are not doing this at impact good chance there is a flip in there.

Lairdy wrote:

As for hitting down and taking a divot think flat left wrist and maintain angle in your right wrist at impact. If you are not doing this at impact good chance there is a flip in there.

Good thought to have re. flat left wrist at impact - cheers.

I was wondering if anyone has any good drills they use when practising, Irons are the worst part of my game and it is really getting me down.

Nay Bother wrote:I was wondering if anyone has any good drills they use when practising, Irons are the worst part of my game and it is really getting me down.

A bit more info might help. What's specifically amiss?

I actually just plain struggle to hit the ball these days

I generally end up taking a divot before the ball longer than some putts i have missed.

So i am just looking for any drills people use to help me get ball first then ground

Sounds like it could be your ball position NB. Be worth checking this and your posture a full length mirror

It sounds like you may also have developed a slouch - maybe standing a little taller with a straighter back?

Fatting a ball can often be the result of an overswing. When I'm struggling with ball striking I always go back to basics. A shorter backswing combined with a slower swing. Voila, instant improvement in ball striking.

Agree with going back to basics. Check grip, stance, knee bend, weight position, ball position spine tilt and spine angle etc. Sounds a lot but its all in your set up and just one of these may have changed enough to led to fats. Best way to check these is get a pro to do it!

For confidence go and find a thick bit of grass, doesnt have to be at the course, and take swings in there. Really start chopping out some grass with your swings. Helps to get that feeling of your hands being ahead of the club head.

Dont be afraid of the ground. Whenever I'm not confident of catching the ball first I will sometimes purposely dig to take a small divot or 'scud' the ground with the sole of the club with a practice swing. Helps take that fear away. (As long as you repair the divot afterwards!)

Sounds like you are just rubbish Nay bother. Give the game up and try crown green bowls instead.

NB

If you're hitting it consistently fat, make sure you aren't making a lateral shift away from the target (i.e.swaying) on the backswing; people who do this often don't get enough weight back the other way in the downswing and hit it fat.
You could try a bit of Stack and Tilt as well. Setup with your weight more on your front foot (maybe 60:40, front:back) and try to keep it there throughout the backswing. Will feel odd but there's no way you can make a weight shift off the ball if you maintain that.

Thanks all i look forward to trying these out,

And diggers i have thought about it but having made my pal buy golf clubs and a season ticket i'm not sure he would be to impressed.